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Post by bt95 on Jun 23, 2019 19:29:09 GMT -5
I agree mate. 100% with your point. But my point is, is that really all down to Noel? Sure thing, he maybe hasn't helped it. But isn't it more to do with this perceived change. And that speaks more to an issue with clickbait culture and people jumping to conclusions without actually reading quotes etc more than an actual change from Noel, imo. Because the only - relatively major - change has been the way Noel now makes music. I cant speak for others, and I also don't see enough change in the way he is now to justify the sudden huge shift in reaction. But speaking personally, it seems less playful now. There's a certain viciousness in some of it. In a 2005 interview for instance itd seem to be more about other celebrities like Victoria Beckham and it was kind of like still our Noel having a pop at them lot. Now it feels like he's one of them lot he was once mocking. Elton John not being someone youd ever see buying a pint of milk for instance, now 14 years on hes in his private box at matches. Noel in 2005 still had all that money he has now, he just still seemed like he had alot of them working class qualities. In the same way Liam comes across like that to people now I suppose. I think that's the biggest difference. Fair enough mate. I'm sat listening to a bootleg of last week's gig at Malahide. Noel lauding the crowd with 'you're amazing' etc (it was a top gig - and the thing is now going to see Noel is a genuinely joyful experience. It's so uplifting. The band are great and everyone has a top time, even if we then come on here and hyper-criticise). So there's definitely different personas. My point will remain though that there always has been, with Noel. He knows how to play the game. Maybe he's desensitised a bit too much now, but I can't blame him. I have no idea what I'd be like if I had his success and money. And all things considered, he's really not totally out there yet. There's still pictures of him doing the shopping or whatever. He was in with the crowd at the Brighton away game, though then again how many people end up in the changing room or whatever. Aye, Noel in 2005 had all the money, but him and Liam were still walking out in Vegas holding Hatton's belts. Let's not act like they've ever been your average guy's on the street. There's a reason they're rock stars. |
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Post by fartpanic on Jun 23, 2019 19:43:19 GMT -5
I cant speak for others, and I also don't see enough change in the way he is now to justify the sudden huge shift in reaction. But speaking personally, it seems less playful now. There's a certain viciousness in some of it. In a 2005 interview for instance itd seem to be more about other celebrities like Victoria Beckham and it was kind of like still our Noel having a pop at them lot. Now it feels like he's one of them lot he was once mocking. Elton John not being someone youd ever see buying a pint of milk for instance, now 14 years on hes in his private box at matches. Noel in 2005 still had all that money he has now, he just still seemed like he had alot of them working class qualities. In the same way Liam comes across like that to people now I suppose. I think that's the biggest difference. Fair enough mate. I'm sat listening to a bootleg of last week's gig at Malahide. Noel lauding the crowd with 'you're amazing' etc (it was a top gig - and the thing is now going to see Noel is a genuinely joyful experience. It's so uplifting. The band are great and everyone has a top time, even if we then come on here and hyper-criticise). So there's definitely different personas. My point will remain though that there always has been, with Noel. He knows how to play the game. Maybe he's desensitised a bit too much now, but I can't blame him. I have no idea what I'd be like if I had his success and money. And all things considered, he's really not totally out there yet. There's still pictures of him doing the shopping or whatever. He was in with the crowd at the Brighton away game, though then again how many people end up in the changing room or whatever. Aye, Noel in 2005 had all the money, but him and Liam were still walking out in Vegas holding Hatton's belts. Let's not act like they've ever been your average guy's on the street. There's a reason they're rock stars. It's funny you should mention how he is on stage because i thought exactly the same at Heaton Park the other week. I think if he was like that more lately he'd come across a bit better. I think in a way, the way Paul has gone on Liams side, along with Peggy seemingly agreeing more with Liams side of it seems to have had alot to do with how Noel is now. In his stubborn way hes embracing the fact hes part of that world now, away from all of that. The last point you make, was the point I was making. He wasn't actually any different but he was still appearing more as one of us. I'd even say the Hatton thing was maybe even representative of this too. He was there carrying the belts of a Manchester working class hero. I couldn't see him doing that now if im honest. |
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Post by bogaloo on Jun 23, 2019 20:00:57 GMT -5
I agree mate. 100% with your point. But my point is, is that really all down to Noel? Sure thing, he maybe hasn't helped it. But isn't it more to do with this perceived change. And that speaks more to an issue with clickbait culture and people jumping to conclusions without actually reading quotes etc more than an actual change from Noel, imo. Because the only - relatively major - change has been the way Noel now makes music. I cant speak for others, and I also don't see enough change in the way he is now to justify the sudden huge shift in reaction. But speaking personally, it seems less playful now. There's a certain viciousness in some of it. In a 2005 interview for instance itd seem to be more about other celebrities like Victoria Beckham and it was kind of like still our Noel having a pop at them lot. Now it feels like he's one of them lot he was once mocking. Elton John not being someone youd ever see buying a pint of milk for instance, now 14 years on hes in his private box at matches. Noel in 2005 still had all that money he has now, he just still seemed like he had alot of them working class qualities. In the same way Liam comes across like that to people now I suppose. I think that's the biggest difference. I tend to agree with some of what you say, nevertheless, I'm going to say something insane here, regarding the Elton John thing... Maybe, just maybe, he just met the guy and realised he wasn't that bad? It's insane how much your perception of people can change. I've never met him, I don't know how he's like. The same with Bono. We may not like their public personas, but none of us actually know who they are in the flesh. It just kind of gets annoying... Are you sure you are not unawaringly projecting prejudices regarding your view of certain people and mixing that with working class values or whatever? I know British class system is too alive and well, and I fully accept this may be me having an error of perception, btw. |
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Post by fartpanic on Jun 23, 2019 20:08:41 GMT -5
I cant speak for others, and I also don't see enough change in the way he is now to justify the sudden huge shift in reaction. But speaking personally, it seems less playful now. There's a certain viciousness in some of it. In a 2005 interview for instance itd seem to be more about other celebrities like Victoria Beckham and it was kind of like still our Noel having a pop at them lot. Now it feels like he's one of them lot he was once mocking. Elton John not being someone youd ever see buying a pint of milk for instance, now 14 years on hes in his private box at matches. Noel in 2005 still had all that money he has now, he just still seemed like he had alot of them working class qualities. In the same way Liam comes across like that to people now I suppose. I think that's the biggest difference. I tend to agree with some of what you say, nevertheless, I'm going to say something insane here, regarding the Elton John thing... Maybe, just maybe, he just met the guy and realised he wasn't that bad? It's insane how much your perception of people can change. I've never met him, I don't know how he's like. The same with Bono. We may not like their public personas, but none of us actually know who they are in the flesh. It just kind of gets annoying... Are you sure you are not unawaringly projecting prejudices regarding your view of certain people and mixing that with working class values or whatever? I know British class system is too alive and well, and I fully accept this may be me having an error of perception, btw. I must stress I'm talking from the perceived view of others rather than my own. I still think the same of Noel. But others dont. I dont doubt you're right and the comments about Elton John were only ever light hearted anyway. But i think the fact he actually does hang around with these types of people now and do these things contributes to why he is looked at like he is. When you watch the way he talks about people in interviews, and then see him riding Bono at some 50th bash, it compounds the theory that he's become one of them. The way Bono and Elton John are viewed has also been through years and years of the same kind of thing. I've certainly heard of plenty of stories of Elton being a complete dick to fans. I'm not some jealous communist lol. I dont care in the slightest that people who have earned it have wealth. It's just when they lose sight of why they are where they are that I start to think less of them. |
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Post by bogaloo on Jun 23, 2019 20:16:19 GMT -5
I tend to agree with some of what you say, nevertheless, I'm going to say something insane here, regarding the Elton John thing... Maybe, just maybe, he just met the guy and realised he wasn't that bad? It's insane how much your perception of people can change. I've never met him, I don't know how he's like. The same with Bono. We may not like their public personas, but none of us actually know who they are in the flesh. It just kind of gets annoying... Are you sure you are not unawaringly projecting prejudices regarding your view of certain people and mixing that with working class values or whatever? I know British class system is too alive and well, and I fully accept this may be me having an error of perception, btw. I must stress I'm talking from the perceived view of others rather than my own. I still think the same of Noel. But others dont. I dont doubt you're right and the comments about Elton John were only ever light hearted anyway. But i think the fact he actually does hang around with these types of people now and do these things contributes to why he is looked at like he is. When you watch the way he talks about people in interviews, and then see him riding Bono at some 50th bash, it compounds the theory that he's become one of them. The way Bono and Elton John are viewed has also been through years and years of the same kind of thing. I've certainly heard of plenty of stories of Elton being a complete dick to fans. I'm not some jealous communist lol. I dont care in the slightest that people who have earned it have wealth. It's just when they lose sight of why they are where they are that I start to think less of them. Ok, that's clearer now, thanks! |
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Post by bogaloo on Jun 23, 2019 20:42:46 GMT -5
Fair enough mate. I'm sat listening to a bootleg of last week's gig at Malahide. Noel lauding the crowd with 'you're amazing' etc (it was a top gig - and the thing is now going to see Noel is a genuinely joyful experience. It's so uplifting. The band are great and everyone has a top time, even if we then come on here and hyper-criticise). So there's definitely different personas. My point will remain though that there always has been, with Noel. He knows how to play the game. Maybe he's desensitised a bit too much now, but I can't blame him. I have no idea what I'd be like if I had his success and money. And all things considered, he's really not totally out there yet. There's still pictures of him doing the shopping or whatever. He was in with the crowd at the Brighton away game, though then again how many people end up in the changing room or whatever. Aye, Noel in 2005 had all the money, but him and Liam were still walking out in Vegas holding Hatton's belts. Let's not act like they've ever been your average guy's on the street. There's a reason they're rock stars. It's funny you should mention how he is on stage because i thought exactly the same at Heaton Park the other week. I think if he was like that more lately he'd come across a bit better.
I think in a way, the way Paul has gone on Liams side, along with Peggy seemingly agreeing more with Liams side of it seems to have had alot to do with how Noel is now. In his stubborn way hes embracing the fact hes part of that world now, away from all of that. The last point you make, was the point I was making. He wasn't actually any different but he was still appearing more as one of us. I'd even say the Hatton thing was maybe even representative of this too. He was there carrying the belts of a Manchester working class hero. I couldn't see him doing that now if im honest. I've recently watched the documentary, and I know I'm going to get slated for saying this, but still: People will say, "we've heard Noel's version of events for years, and it's distorted Liam's image", fair enough. Regarding the facts Liam alludes to from the BE split forward, we've only heard Liam's version. His emotions, his anger, his feelings, his reasons. We've only had vague explanations from Noel. His choice, of course and I don't expect the same kind of exposure from him, but I would not, for a moment think he "felt nothing", take those very interviews from late 2017 and you can tell to some extent how much is boiling under the surface. |
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Post by mossy on Jun 24, 2019 4:17:49 GMT -5
I want the old Noel back. The one who wished Aids on people. X
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Post by bt95 on Jun 24, 2019 4:36:17 GMT -5
Fair enough mate. I'm sat listening to a bootleg of last week's gig at Malahide. Noel lauding the crowd with 'you're amazing' etc (it was a top gig - and the thing is now going to see Noel is a genuinely joyful experience. It's so uplifting. The band are great and everyone has a top time, even if we then come on here and hyper-criticise). So there's definitely different personas. My point will remain though that there always has been, with Noel. He knows how to play the game. Maybe he's desensitised a bit too much now, but I can't blame him. I have no idea what I'd be like if I had his success and money. And all things considered, he's really not totally out there yet. There's still pictures of him doing the shopping or whatever. He was in with the crowd at the Brighton away game, though then again how many people end up in the changing room or whatever. Aye, Noel in 2005 had all the money, but him and Liam were still walking out in Vegas holding Hatton's belts. Let's not act like they've ever been your average guy's on the street. There's a reason they're rock stars. It's funny you should mention how he is on stage because i thought exactly the same at Heaton Park the other week. I think if he was like that more lately he'd come across a bit better. I think in a way, the way Paul has gone on Liams side, along with Peggy seemingly agreeing more with Liams side of it seems to have had alot to do with how Noel is now. In his stubborn way hes embracing the fact hes part of that world now, away from all of that. The last point you make, was the point I was making. He wasn't actually any different but he was still appearing more as one of us. I'd even say the Hatton thing was maybe even representative of this too. He was there carrying the belts of a Manchester working class hero. I couldn't see him doing that now if im honest. Tbh, I think Peggy stays well out of it. It's the only time I feel bad about the fact they hate each other - she's their mum and it's sad to think her sons may never get on again in her lifetime. As an aside, I'm just watching that Reel Stories show on iPlayer and he's spent a good little bit bigging up Manchester already. |
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Post by lahaine on Jun 24, 2019 5:21:20 GMT -5
Not near enough, I still think it's mostly down to him ending Oasis some will never forgive for that. He get's my respect cause he got me into a ton of music as a young lad watching his interviews or reading interviews in NME and the sort. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who in the mid 90's got into guitars and growing their hair out cause of Oasis influence. I think his solo work is some of the best things he's done since Be Here Now. Also he's the best interview in music, the guy is good for a quote. Deserves more respect then he does get.
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Post by andymorris on Jun 24, 2019 9:59:50 GMT -5
About the Parka Monkeys debate, i think we've all mocked those people who look exactly like Liam at gigs. I mean, even in the glory days of Oasis, those people were ridiculous. Are they the norm now ? i dont know, but i dont find Noel's comments too harsh. They're spot on.
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Post by seanrulesrh on Jun 24, 2019 10:18:01 GMT -5
I personally think that sharing something like a band with a complicated person like Liam must be really irritating. He has carried it with him over years. He was brave enough to leave the band that gave him the life and going solo chasing a crowd of his own. And did it succesfully. In my opinion,he should be respected for that.
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Post by Nyron Nosworthy on Jun 24, 2019 11:02:03 GMT -5
I thought Noel came across as a monumental bellend when he was promoting WBTM in 2017. Not sure if Liam's success rattled him but I lost a lot of respect for him. There wasn't one particular incident, more a continuation of his smugness and hooplicking of Bono. Since then? I think he's toned down Toryboy Noel a lot over the last year.
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Post by Stemot on Jun 24, 2019 11:31:53 GMT -5
Woah there, someone's getting a little irate about who the fuck I choose to respect and for what reasons. You're right, it is my fucking problem and I never once said it was anything but. That also means by extension it dictates who I respect and who I don't. You want me to handle a "joke" but you can't handle my opinion? Fuck man, get over it. Sorry if the post came across this way. I can handle an opinion. What I can't 'handle' is opinions that aren't backed up by something or even a bit of honesty. The only thing that has changed is the music. Noel has always been a bit of a tit. I don't know whether you like the music or not. I just wanted to point out that really, he's never paid gratitude to the fans (or at least, not in the way some people do, very openly and always so), so I don't really see why there's suddenly a consensus he's 'disrespecting' the fans (who again I reiterate, he - and Liam, and the rest of the members of Oasis - owe absolutely nothing to, really). It's all good man, I liked his music up until his last album, I have every thing the mans done up until Who Built The Moon. Maybe with Liam's new found humility with his failures since Oasis split it was wrong of me to expect the same thing of Noel. It is what it is though, his comments made it clear for me that my support was not something he wanted and I accommodated. You are right, they don't owe anybody anything but maybe turning on people that had supported him wasn't the best way to go. |
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Post by Stemot on Jun 24, 2019 11:34:10 GMT -5
I used to respect him. Worship the ground he walked on even. Last couple of years though my respect from him has all but gone. When you swipe at the people who put you where you are, you aren't due loyalty any more. He's always been like that though. Maybe. Maybe now me and him are both a lot older it doesn't seem quite as cool anymore. |
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Post by freddy838 on Jun 24, 2019 12:40:55 GMT -5
I've mentioned it before but Noel was many things but he was never pretentious until his last album came out. I still respect him hugely though, just prefer Liam in general at the moment.
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Post by bt95 on Jun 24, 2019 16:59:32 GMT -5
Sorry if the post came across this way. I can handle an opinion. What I can't 'handle' is opinions that aren't backed up by something or even a bit of honesty. The only thing that has changed is the music. Noel has always been a bit of a tit. I don't know whether you like the music or not. I just wanted to point out that really, he's never paid gratitude to the fans (or at least, not in the way some people do, very openly and always so), so I don't really see why there's suddenly a consensus he's 'disrespecting' the fans (who again I reiterate, he - and Liam, and the rest of the members of Oasis - owe absolutely nothing to, really). It's all good man, I liked his music up until his last album, I have every thing the mans done up until Who Built The Moon. Maybe with Liam's new found humility with his failures since Oasis split it was wrong of me to expect the same thing of Noel. It is what it is though, his comments made it clear for me that my support was not something he wanted and I accommodated. You are right, they don't owe anybody anything but maybe turning on people that had supported him wasn't the best way to go. Fair enough. Your last sentence there. While I kind of see where you're coming from, my point is that there has been just as many examples of Noel praising the fans as there has been him 'slating' them. But obviously, and I'm not disagreeing with you here, it's the bad comments that stick. |
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Post by bt95 on Jun 24, 2019 17:05:36 GMT -5
About the Parka Monkeys debate, i think we've all mocked those people who look exactly like Liam at gigs. I mean, even in the glory days of Oasis, those people were ridiculous. Are they the norm now ? i dont know, but i dont find Noel's comments too harsh. They're spot on. Thing is, i don't think it was really mocking that though. It was just playing up to the stereotype and, the thing is, the stereotypical 'parka monkey' played right into it. I just didn't see it as a dig, not really. Noel has made plenty of reference to the fact that loads of people in big coats attend his gigs. He said last year, during the summer, how he'd look out at the crowd getting younger and younger, and then made a comment about how there were some there in 'four jackets and six pairs of sunglasses'. It wasn't a dig, it was just a joke. Heck, I saw him at Tramlines in 22/23 degrees and wore a (thin) coat and shades all day (and kept em on at the gig like, can't take em off if the outfits on point can you?). I feel people have lost the ability to laugh at themselves. Oasis never took themselves seriously, and that was reflected in the fanbase. Unfortunately, the social media age has changed that (not just in Oasis fandom, but in respect to a lot of things. It's dead weird, really, because being British - and especially northern - that's kind of what all our humour is based on). In respect of the actual question, i do think Noel gets the respect he deserves generally. I just think people have a perceived opinion of him now that is present for a number of factors, and Noel himself/his comments is/are only actually a small factor in that. |
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Post by bt95 on Jun 24, 2019 17:11:05 GMT -5
Not near enough, I still think it's mostly down to him ending Oasis some will never forgive for that. He get's my respect cause he got me into a ton of music as a young lad watching his interviews or reading interviews in NME and the sort. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who in the mid 90's got into guitars and growing their hair out cause of Oasis influence. I think his solo work is some of the best things he's done since Be Here Now. Also he's the best interview in music, the guy is good for a quote. Deserves more respect then he does get. Whenever he's on a show where he'll recommend a song or he'll be playing them or whatever, I nearly always fucking love the songs when I go and find them. I'd never heard 'Last Night A DJ Saved My Life' by Indeep properly before a few months back, when he mentioned it on Jo Whiley. It's probably my favourite new (I know it's old) song I've heard this year. Him playing an early Bowie track (and I'm a big Bowie fan) a few years ago was what got me into that first album of Bowie's, for example. On the solo work, I 100% agree at the moment on the current output. Some of it's still missing 'something' that Oasis had, but fuck me, Holy Mountain is genuinely up there with my favourite songs from him. It's the attitude to the music that is back now. The attitude that he had in the 90s. And whether people like the output or not, i think we can all agree that a Noel with that attitude is better than a 'phoning it in' Noel. The gigs keep getting better. Malahide on Sunday, he walked out, arms outstretched, getting the crowd up. I've listened to the bootleg and forgot how much he was interacting. The bloke's 52, yet the last time he was this up for it at gigs, it was 1996/1997. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jun 24, 2019 18:37:20 GMT -5
About the Parka Monkeys debate, i think we've all mocked those people who look exactly like Liam at gigs. I mean, even in the glory days of Oasis, those people were ridiculous. Are they the norm now ? i dont know, but i dont find Noel's comments too harsh. They're spot on. They make up a tiny minority of people at Liam's gigs as they did at Oasis gigs. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jun 24, 2019 18:39:56 GMT -5
I respect Noel Gallagher the songwriter. He was great and is still often good at it, how could you not? Other things, not so much.
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Post by bt95 on Jun 24, 2019 18:59:10 GMT -5
About the Parka Monkeys debate, i think we've all mocked those people who look exactly like Liam at gigs. I mean, even in the glory days of Oasis, those people were ridiculous. Are they the norm now ? i dont know, but i dont find Noel's comments too harsh. They're spot on. They make up a tiny minority of people at Liam's gigs as they did at Oasis gigs. They're at Courteeners gigs, mainly.  |
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Jun 24, 2019 19:28:20 GMT -5
I have to say. With Gallaghers, i always wanted to be in the opposition to whoever is the worshiped one at the moment, like against the trend kinda thing. Clearly nowadays we have all those parka monkeys praising Liam for whatever he says or does so i'm all for Noel to get in, but then again, the truth is... I have Noel's days and Liam's days. Both are decent, today i have my Noel day though. Hail the Chief !
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jun 24, 2019 21:18:53 GMT -5
We should all be kissing his feet. You learn from the best, squire. |
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Post by DCUnited on Jun 24, 2019 21:43:09 GMT -5
Respect for what? Anything Oasis related recently he has done a half-assed job such as the Be Here Now remixes or even showing up to movie premieres. If anything Noel doesnt show Oasis and its fans enough respect.
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Post by LlAM on Jun 25, 2019 4:38:10 GMT -5
Funny logic;
"I've paid for your music, now you must be kind"
It's not like you actually bought a part of Noel, you bought his music, which you got.
This is exactly what Oasis was about in the '90s
'90s Noel would cringe if he read this thread.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5