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Post by matt on Jan 25, 2021 18:52:18 GMT -5
I could be mistaken but I believe Mark began to suffer from immense ear damage which impacted what he could offer production wise. Yes -- he definitely suffered from hearing loss which lead him to quit touring with the band mid 1995. I doubt though that would have prevented him from helping in post production had Noel wanted him involved. My guess is that Mark probably hung out with Noel while he was demoing stuff for SOTSOG and being a friend, gave him a shout out on the liner notes. I doubt Mark went to France and I don't remember ever seeing any pictures of him hanging around in the various studio sessions for SOTSOG. Noel and Mark Coyle together seem to be able to conjure up interesting results musically. There's that selection of unreleased 'house' music they made prior to Definitely Maybe and the demos for Giants which were well formed with a lot of cool ideas in them. |
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Post by darmin on Jan 29, 2021 5:44:54 GMT -5
Such a missed opportunity, a lot of potential.., it’s like a half of brilliant album here if you ignore all the flop songs
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Post by NicOasis on Jan 29, 2021 10:43:32 GMT -5
I'd like to give some appreciation to Where Did It All Go Wrong?
Organ Demo version
Semi acoustic version
This is the song I come back to most when looking at the Giants album, I love the big tracks, also fond of Who Feels Love, but something about Where Did It All Go Wrong keeps me coming back to it,
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2021 10:45:16 GMT -5
Where did it all go wrong is the same category as little by little for me
50% I am like this is kind of a nothing song
50% I am like, this song is pretty effing good
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Post by willc on Jan 29, 2021 11:44:34 GMT -5
The last album that has any 'magic' on it, for me.
Also, the idea that Noel was uninspired I think is rubbish. Like on the first three albums, he's wrote about his surroundings,and in 1999/2000 that was a fall from grace in the press, kicking a drug habit and a marriage that was going down the drain. Writing Gas Panic, Where Did It All Go Wrong, Roll It Over, Lets All Make Believe and Cigarettes In Hell show he was writing from a new, somewhat depressed lowly standpoint.
Just because he didn't enter the studio with 40 songs or whatever doesn't distract from the fact Noel was definitely still somewhat prolific.
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Post by The Escapist on Jan 29, 2021 12:14:11 GMT -5
The last album that has any 'magic' on it, for me. Also, the idea that Noel was uninspired I think is rubbish. Like on the first three albums, he's wrote about his surroundings,and in 1999/2000 that was a fall from grace in the press, kicking a drug habit and a marriage that was going down the drain. Writing Gas Panic, Where Did It All Go Wrong, Roll It Over, Lets All Make Believe and Cigarettes In Hell show he was writing from a new, somewhat depressed lowly standpoint. Just because he didn't enter the studio with 40 songs or whatever doesn't distract from the fact Noel was definitely still somewhat prolific. I think when people say Noel was uninspired, they're talking about the quality rather than the quantity of songs. Even if you make the best version of the SOTSOG tracklist, you still only end up with two stand-out singles (Go Let it Out, Little by Little). For a songwriter who was previously writing so many natural hits that half of them had to be stuffed as b-sides, it's a remarkably low return. If only they had waited until songs like The Hindu Times (Demo) and Stop Crying Your Heart Out were written. Not only do they fit the mood of SOTSOG, they're also hit songs waiting to happen and would both sound borderline orgasmic with that rich Stent production. |
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Post by World71R on Jan 29, 2021 13:50:39 GMT -5
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 29, 2021 14:23:23 GMT -5
I remember 1998/1999, early Oasis messageboards on AOL. We hyped the shit out of “Slow”, “Little James” and “The Red The White and The Blue”. Then the track list gets announced by the band and only 1 of them made it! |
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Post by beentherenow on Jan 29, 2021 14:29:44 GMT -5
I actually like the fact SOTSOG doesn’t have any ‘singles’ on it and neither would any hypothetical track list made up from the songs Noel had written for the album.
That for me isn’t the issue, some of the greatest albums of all time don’t have singles on them, it’s the fact Noel chose clearly inferior songs for the album vs any number of better b-sides and demos he had. I love SOTSOG as it is but I can fully understand the criticism but putting SCYHO or LBL on it does nothing for me.
I’ve never liked the idea of a hybrid SOTSOG/HC album as for me they’re two completely different periods (like having a BHN/SOTSOG album). But adding LAMB, It’s A Crime, One Way Road, Full On etc would make a better album IMO as they obviously fit the vibe, which is one of the key things that makes SOTSOG work
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 29, 2021 15:43:20 GMT -5
The lack of single power on the album is really quite obvious but there was plenty of self sabotage. Who on earth thought 'Who Feels Love?' and 'Sunday Morning Call' were good singles choices? Why the hell did Noel decide to hold onto 'Little by Little'?! That song would've slipped in SOTSOG perfectly. If it was up to me (with the benefit of hindsight of course) I'd have put out radio edits of: 'Go Let It Out', 'Little by Little' and 'Gas Panic!' as singles and made liberal use of 'Fuckin' in the Bushes' promotionally (ads, interviews, etc.).
As for the album perhaps something like this would've been more solid (though it probably still wouldn't perform much better commercially):
Side 1
1. Fuckin' in the Bushes
2. Go Let it Out
3. Who Feels Love?
4. Little by Little
5. Full On [Liam vocal]
Side 2
6. Let's All Make Believe
7. Teotihuacan [2 minute album edit]
8. Gas Panic!
9. Where Did It All Go Wrong [Demo]
10. Roll it Over
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Post by underneaththesky on Jan 29, 2021 15:54:53 GMT -5
SOTSOG is the new BHN
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 29, 2021 16:21:17 GMT -5
Does that mean “Put Yer Money Where Your Mouth Is” is the new “Magic Pie”? |
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Post by World71R on Jan 29, 2021 17:40:24 GMT -5
Does that mean “Put Yer Money Where Your Mouth Is” is the new “Magic Pie”? It is a song that had potential but is inherently flawed by the creator's handling of it, like Magic Pie, so yes. |
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Post by tiger40 on Jan 29, 2021 18:02:06 GMT -5
Standing On The Shoulder Of Giants is a strange album in places and I agree that Who Feels Love and Sunday Morning Call should never have been singles. But we all know that Noel usually picked the wrong songs for single releases. If he really wanted to release a single with him on lead vocals he should have released Where Did It All Go Wrong as it's a better song than Sunday Morning Call.
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Post by underneaththesky on Jan 30, 2021 7:37:08 GMT -5
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 30, 2021 11:17:24 GMT -5
Does that mean “Put Yer Money Where Your Mouth Is” is the new “Magic Pie”?  think Sunday Morning Call is GROSS! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2021 13:10:33 GMT -5
My favourite post 90's Oasis related album. The album does has it defaults, but I think the songwriting is better than the critics and even a lot of fans thought it was at time.
Highlights for me: Go Let It Out, Gas Panic!, Fuckin' In The Bushes, Roll It Over.
Those four tunes are arguably four of the very best songs Noel has written post Be Here Now.
I always thought the production and arrangements on Where Did It All Go Wrong and Sunday Morning Call did let down the songs, they feel too clumsy. Pretty good songs though.
I have a soft spot for Who Feels Love, not their best song, a bit too psychedelic cliche but it's not a bad song.
Then the remaining three songs are pretty poor but not more than the worst 3/4 songs on the next 3 Oasis albums.
I don't think the album needed SCYHO or Little By Little. Let's All Make Believe is the song that should have been on it, great melody, outstanding Liam's vocals (in his top 5 ever ?) and it perfectly fits the mood of the album.
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Post by tiger40 on Jan 30, 2021 14:24:52 GMT -5
Oh, I don't hate Who Feels Love but I certainly don't think that it's one of the best songs Noel has ever written and like I've said before the live version I think is a lot better.
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Post by My Big Name on Jan 30, 2021 18:32:06 GMT -5
I actually much prefer Cigarettes in Hell to Let's All Make Believe and even would've preferred it on the album to the likes of Who Feels Love let alone the trio of shite. Admittedly I don't know how it could've flowed with the rest of the tracklist that well.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jan 30, 2021 18:45:40 GMT -5
I love Who Feels Love, as you said maybe a bit cliched but I really like the spaced out vibe and it's got a very nice bassline
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Post by tiger40 on Jan 30, 2021 18:50:56 GMT -5
As for (As Long As They've Got) Cigarettes In Hell I do like it but it's not one of my favourite songs from the Standing On The Shoulder Of Giants era. But that said I do think that it's better than Sunday Morning Call.
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Post by willc on Jan 31, 2021 12:28:46 GMT -5
The last album that has any 'magic' on it, for me. Also, the idea that Noel was uninspired I think is rubbish. Like on the first three albums, he's wrote about his surroundings,and in 1999/2000 that was a fall from grace in the press, kicking a drug habit and a marriage that was going down the drain. Writing Gas Panic, Where Did It All Go Wrong, Roll It Over, Lets All Make Believe and Cigarettes In Hell show he was writing from a new, somewhat depressed lowly standpoint. Just because he didn't enter the studio with 40 songs or whatever doesn't distract from the fact Noel was definitely still somewhat prolific. I think when people say Noel was uninspired, they're talking about the quality rather than the quantity of songs. Even if you make the best version of the SOTSOG tracklist, you still only end up with two stand-out singles (Go Let it Out, Little by Little). For a songwriter who was previously writing so many natural hits that half of them had to be stuffed as b-sides, it's a remarkably low return. If only they had waited until songs like The Hindu Times (Demo) and Stop Crying Your Heart Out were written. Not only do they fit the mood of SOTSOG, they're also hit songs waiting to happen and would both sound borderline orgasmic with that rich Stent production. Yeah I will agree with that, especially the point you make about waiting for Noel to write better songs. If SOTSOG added the singles from Heathen Chemistry, and came out a year later. It could have been really fantastic: A: 1. Fuckin' In The Bushes 2. The Hindu Times * 3. Little By Little 4. Let's All Make Believe 5. Gas Panic! B: 1. Go Let It Out 2. Stop Crying Your Heart Out 3. Full On ** 4. Where Did It All Go Wrong? 5. Roll It Over *more like the demo version **Liam vocals |
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Post by garylineker on Jan 31, 2021 12:37:31 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's a terrible record, but i've always found it baffling that it gets quite so much love on here.
Outside this forum it's easily regarded as the worst Oasis album. People on here love to make out that is Heathen Chemistry, but having 4 good singles (2 of which are some of their most well known songs ever) is not overlooked, despite what anyone says on here.
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Post by My Big Name on Jan 31, 2021 13:09:42 GMT -5
I'm not saying it's a terrible record, but i've always found it baffling that it gets quite so much love on here. Outside this forum it's easily regarded as the worst Oasis album. People on here love to make out that is Heathen Chemistry, but having 4 good singles (2 of which are some of their most well known songs ever) is not overlooked, despite what anyone says on here. Most people who say that haven't heard the rest of the tracklist of either album though so of course they're only going to judge them on the singles, which is the only thing HC does better than SOTSOG. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 31, 2021 14:26:36 GMT -5
Sonically this time period of late 1998 to late 2000 was fantastic. New sounds. New themes found in Noel’s lyrics. Turbulent time for the band however with the departure of two core members exiting.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5