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Post by The Escapist on Feb 27, 2020 2:16:57 GMT -5
They should have just waited a few more years to come back. No matter what b-sides you swap around, the songs just weren't there in 2000 to release the follow-up to one of the most iconic runs of British pop music ever made. Wait for the songs to appear, let absence make the heart grow fonder, and then hit people with dark versions of The Hindu Times and Stop Crying Your Heart Out for a big return.
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Post by Jack on Feb 27, 2020 3:34:41 GMT -5
They should have just waited a few more years to come back. No matter what b-sides you swap around, the songs just weren't there in 2000 to release the follow-up to one of the most iconic runs of British pop music ever made. Wait for the songs to appear, let absence make the heart grow fonder, and then hit people with dark versions of The Hindu Times and Stop Crying Your Heart Out for a big return. I have to disagree. The songs are there, they're just not typical Oasis songs. It's gets pretty boring listening to people constantly circle jerking over the first three albums and dismissing the rest. I find the post-1998 albums more interesting for the most part. It's all subjective and taste based, i guess. For example, I dont care for WTSMG at all, apart from the b -sides. |
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Post by megyesitomate on Feb 27, 2020 6:42:44 GMT -5
I’d dump Liar. Never a fan of Liam’s vocals on it. The reverb/delay on it kills Liam's vocals. Get rid of that and have it be just raw Liam vocals, and it goes to being the raw punk rock song it should be. The live version proves it: Oh yes. The 99 Philadelphia gig and its soundboard recording presents one of the best Liam vocals ever, and had ICSAL’s vocals been recorded and then produced to sound like that, it would’ve been an absolute beast. But since the final product doesn’t do the song justice, I have to stick to this live performance, which, in terms of sound quality, sadly isn’t very good. |
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Post by oasisserbia on Feb 27, 2020 6:51:26 GMT -5
They should have just waited a few more years to come back. No matter what b-sides you swap around, the songs just weren't there in 2000 to release the follow-up to one of the most iconic runs of British pop music ever made. Wait for the songs to appear, let absence make the heart grow fonder, and then hit people with dark versions of The Hindu Times and Stop Crying Your Heart Out for a big return. I have to disagree. The songs are there, they're just not typical Oasis songs. It's gets pretty boring listening to people constantly circle jerking over the first three albums and dismissing the rest. I find the post-1998 albums more interesting for the most part. It's all subjective and taste based, i guess. For example, I dont care for WTSMG at all, apart from the b -sides. :-) |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Feb 27, 2020 6:52:16 GMT -5
This is a good point to make and something I have indeed considered at more length than you may realise. The correct answer is there is no way to satisfactorily categories every single song the band has ever written. 'Teotihuacan' is one of many outliers whose placement isn't necessarily obvious but here's why I believe it should be very definitely classified in that list: It was written after the 'Be Here Now' recording sessions, it didn't feature on any of the singles and not only was it released after the final 'Be Here Now' single had been released (12th Jan 98 for 'AATW' or 19th Feb 98 for 'DGA' in Japan) but after the 'Be Here Now' tour had finished too. It's not known precisely when the track was written but seeing as Noel visited Teotihuacan in March 98 during the final two gigs of the Be Here Now tour it can be somewhat assumed it was written after that and then recorded in Air Studios, London between late March and May 98 ready to be released on June 2nd of that year. It also featured on a 98 demo tape with a bunch of songs I don't think anyone would say weren't part of the 'SOTSOG' era...  Also it's sonically very obviously in one camp and not the other. Noel had stated a number of times he wanted to move on from the 'classic' Oasis sound after 'Be Here Now'. As far as I'm aware the 'Be Here Now' era argument basically amounts to the release date of 'Teotihuacan' (2nd Jun 98) being closer to the release date of 'Be Here Now' (21st Aug 97) than that of 'SOTSOG' (28th Feb 00) which in my opinion is overly simplistic. All solid points. In my memory I thought the movie came out that March as opposed to June. I still feel like it’s not part of either camp (BHN or SOTSOG). It was a fully formed and released track years before SOTSOG hit the shelves or was recorded. It was even the most praised track from that soundtrack. It’s bizarre Noel was even considering it for SOTSOG. Maybe that tape (which we need to track down and purchase as a forum) was just Noel and his people throwing all his 1998 demos on a single cassette to keep track of easier. Who knows. There's no correct way to categories songs so anyone can do so however they like. Personally I believe tying songs into the album cycles makes the most sense (DM/(WTS)MG?/BHN/SOTSOG/HC/DBTT/DOYS/Post-DOYS). An overly simple version of how I do so is by considering everything written after an album recording session as being in contention for the next album and therefore part of the subsequent album era. There are some outliers but I take these on a case by case basis and would happily explain any examples. I fail to see why it's "bizarre" for Noel to consider 'Teotihuacan' for his follow up to 'Be Here Now'. Some of the tracks on that tape could have been written before 'Teotihuacan' and the track very definitely fits stylistically. The demo to 'Force of Nature' featured as part of the soundtrack to 'Love, Honour and Obey' (released 7 Apr 00) before being re-released on 'Heathen Chemistry' over 2 years later. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Feb 27, 2020 6:56:10 GMT -5
They should have just waited a few more years to come back. No matter what b-sides you swap around, the songs just weren't there in 2000 to release the follow-up to one of the most iconic runs of British pop music ever made. Wait for the songs to appear, let absence make the heart grow fonder, and then hit people with dark versions of The Hindu Times and Stop Crying Your Heart Out for a big return. With hindsight I agree. Outside of 'Go Let It Out' there are no real singles on 'SOTSOG'. Waiting for these songs to come could have made 'Be Here Now' simply a misstep and not a sign of things to come. |
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Post by Jack on Feb 27, 2020 7:19:40 GMT -5
I have to disagree. The songs are there, they're just not typical Oasis songs. It's gets pretty boring listening to people constantly circle jerking over the first three albums and dismissing the rest. I find the post-1998 albums more interesting for the most part. It's all subjective and taste based, i guess. For example, I dont care for WTSMG at all, apart from the b -sides. :-) You're right...wOnDeRwAlL AnD dLbIa aRe OnLy rEaL oAsIs SoNgZ...lads! lads! lads! mad fer'it! Typical Oasis 'fan'  |
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Post by thomuk2006 on Feb 27, 2020 7:28:58 GMT -5
Who feels love.... the most underrated oasis single ever.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 27, 2020 7:40:30 GMT -5
All solid points. In my memory I thought the movie came out that March as opposed to June. I still feel like it’s not part of either camp (BHN or SOTSOG). It was a fully formed and released track years before SOTSOG hit the shelves or was recorded. It was even the most praised track from that soundtrack. It’s bizarre Noel was even considering it for SOTSOG. Maybe that tape (which we need to track down and purchase as a forum) was just Noel and his people throwing all his 1998 demos on a single cassette to keep track of easier. Who knows. There's no correct way to categories songs so anyone can do so however they like. Personally I believe tying songs into the album cycles makes the most sense (DM/(WTS)MG?/BHN/SOTSOG/HC/DBTT/DOYS/Post-DOYS). An overly simple version of how I do so is by considering everything written after an album recording session as being in contention for the next album and therefore part of the subsequent album era. There are some outliers but I take these on a case by case basis and would happily explain any examples. I fail to see why it's "bizarre" for Noel to consider 'Teotihuacan' for his follow up to 'Be Here Now'. Some of the tracks on that tape could have been written before 'Teotihuacan' and the track very definitely fits stylistically. The demo to 'Force of Nature' featured as part of the soundtrack to 'Love, Honour and Obey' (released 7 Apr 00) before being re-released on 'Heathen Chemistry' over 2 years later. I guess my point is Teotihuacan was already a fully formed and a released track with plenty of attention from being on a summer block buster x files movie coming hot off the heels of BHN. For me it’s weird for him to take it and apply it to SOTSOG two years later. Force of Nature like you said was a demo, I don’t believe it was on the album and the hype for that faded rather quickly. I don’t think most USA fans even knew of its existence since we couldn’t see the film. |
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Post by ossieoss30 on Feb 27, 2020 7:44:05 GMT -5
For my playlist I cut I Hope, I Think, I Know and The Girl In the Dirty Shirt from Be Here Now making that album a tad shorter, thus a better listen.
I then added those songs, as well as Let’s All Make Believe to Giants and got rid of Liar.
1) Fuckin in the Bushes
2) Go Let It Out
3) Where Did It All Go Wrong?
4) The Girl In The Dirty Shirt
5) Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is
6) Gas Panic
7) Sunday Morning Call
8) Let’s All Make Believe
9) Who Feels Love?
10) Little James
11) I Hope, I Think, I Know
12) Roll It Over
And bizarrely, I listen to this album/playlist more than DM and MG.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 27, 2020 7:45:30 GMT -5
For my playlist I cut I Hope, I Think, I Know and The Girl In the Dirty Shirt from Be Here Now making that album a tad shorter, thus a better listen. I then added those songs, as well as Let’s All Make Believe to Giants and got rid of Liar. 1) Fuckin in the Bushes 2) Go Let It Out 3) Where Did It All Go Wrong? 4) The Girl In The Dirty Shirt 5) Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is 6) Gas Panic 7) Sunday Morning Call 8) Let’s All Make Believe 9) Who Feels Love? 10) Little James 11) I Hope, I Think, I Know 12) Roll It Over And bizarrely, I listen to this album/playlist more than DM and MG. Those BHN songs stick out like a sore thumb on SOTSOG. Both sonically and lyrically. |
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Post by The Thieving Magpie on Feb 27, 2020 7:55:44 GMT -5
1.Fuckin' in the Bushes
2.Go Let It Out
3.Go Let It Out
4.Go Let It Out
5.Go Let It Out
6.Gas Panic!
7.Go Let It Out
8.Go Let It Out
9.Go Let It Out
10.Roll It Over
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Post by themanwholivesinhell on Feb 27, 2020 8:03:57 GMT -5
Id say its their most underrated outside the fanbase. If an Oasis album ever appears on “worst” lists its usually this one; basically it seems to have the worst general/public reputation of all their albums.
Writing from a neutral POV on Allmusic i gave it 3.5/5, identifying ‘Go Let It Out’ and ‘Gas Panic’ as highlights, with ‘Where Did It All Go Wrong’, ‘F**kin’ In The Bushes’ and ‘Roll It Over’ being other strong moments. ‘Who Feels Love’ also gets a marginal thumbs up. On the other hand, I just don't rate ‘Sunday Morning Call’. I know some like it, but I’ve listened to it loads and still find it dreary and overlong. I also think ‘I Can See A Liar’, ‘Little James’ and ‘Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is’ are weak, especially the latter pair.
Production is great, i think it was a good idea to try a different sound. Its overblown at times, but not overproduced. Overall a weaker LP than the first 3 , but has some great stuff. I agree with many that Lets All Make Believe and Carry Us All should have been on it. However I dont really get the fuss about Cigarettes In Hell; its not bad but not the lost classic ive heard people call it IMO.
But music is subjective; theres people who like SOTSOG less than me, and others who like it more.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 27, 2020 8:13:26 GMT -5
Id say its their most underrated outside the fanbase. If an Oasis album ever appears on “worst” lists its usually this one; basically it seems to have the worst general/public reputation of all their albums. Writing from a neutral POV on Allmusic i gave it 3.5/5, identifying ‘Go Let It Out’ and ‘Gas Panic’ as highlights, with ‘Where Did It All Go Wrong’, ‘F**kin’ In The Bushes’ and ‘Roll It Over’ being other strong moments. ‘Who Feels Love’ also gets a marginal thumbs up. On the other hand, I just don't rate ‘Sunday Morning Call’. I know some like it, but I’ve listened to it loads and still find it dreary and overlong. I also think ‘I Can See A Liar’, ‘Little James’ and ‘Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is’ are weak, especially the latter pair. Production is great, i think it was a good idea to try a different sound. Its overblown at times, but not overproduced. Overall a weaker LP than the first 3 , but has some great stuff. I agree with many that Lets All Make Believe and Carry Us All should have been on it. However I dont really get the fuss about Cigarettes In Hell; its not bad but not the lost classic ive heard people call it IMO. But music is subjective; theres people who like SOTSOG less than me, and some who like it more. SOTSOG has a lot going for it. The production is terrific. Oasis sounding like the future. Likewise the album contains so many top notch tracks: Fucking In The Bushes Go Let It Out Who Feels Love? Gas Panic Where Did It All Go Wrong? Roll It Over Naturally it does suffer from 2-3 tracks weighing down the potential. PYMWYMI should have been better. Noel needed to flesh out that second verse. Never dug Liar. That’s a clear cut for me. Like many have said over the years Noel didn’t have enough songs to round it out without it being too Noel heavy. Liam began to disappear from singing b-sides for whatever reason. Sure adding LAMB is nice but it doesn’t alter the albums fate. |
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Post by Parka Flames on Feb 27, 2020 8:22:44 GMT -5
It's fine. Some great tunes, some shit ones. To Noel's credit they tried different things sonically but there just weren't enough good songs to carry the album. Another year or two of writing might have been beneficial. We have FITB, GLIO, GP!, RIO and LAMB at least.
I also think the 4th Oasis album was doomed to be slated by the media regardless of how good or bad it was.
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Post by themanwholivesinhell on Feb 27, 2020 8:30:14 GMT -5
Id say its their most underrated outside the fanbase. If an Oasis album ever appears on “worst” lists its usually this one; basically it seems to have the worst general/public reputation of all their albums. Writing from a neutral POV on Allmusic i gave it 3.5/5, identifying ‘Go Let It Out’ and ‘Gas Panic’ as highlights, with ‘Where Did It All Go Wrong’, ‘F**kin’ In The Bushes’ and ‘Roll It Over’ being other strong moments. ‘Who Feels Love’ also gets a marginal thumbs up. On the other hand, I just don't rate ‘Sunday Morning Call’. I know some like it, but I’ve listened to it loads and still find it dreary and overlong. I also think ‘I Can See A Liar’, ‘Little James’ and ‘Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is’ are weak, especially the latter pair. Production is great, i think it was a good idea to try a different sound. Its overblown at times, but not overproduced. Overall a weaker LP than the first 3 , but has some great stuff. I agree with many that Lets All Make Believe and Carry Us All should have been on it. However I dont really get the fuss about Cigarettes In Hell; its not bad but not the lost classic ive heard people call it IMO. But music is subjective; theres people who like SOTSOG less than me, and some who like it more. SOTSOG has a lot going for it. The production is terrific. Oasis sounding like the future. Likewise the album contains so many top notch tracks: Fucking In The Bushes Go Let It Out Who Feels Love? Gas Panic Where Did It All Go Wrong? Roll It Over Naturally it does suffer from 2-3 tracks weighing down the potential. PYMWYMI should have been better. Noel needed to flesh out that second verse. Never dug Liar. That’s a clear cut for me. Like many have said over the years Noel didn’t have enough songs to round it out without it being too Noel heavy. Liam began to disappear from singing b-sides for whatever reason. Sure adding LAMB is nice but it doesn’t alter the albums fate. Yes, some of the weaker moments could have been better. Ive never thought that about PYMWYMI but youve got a point. Ive also said for years that Little James’ melody isnt that bad, and could have been put to better use elsewhere. |
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Post by The Escapist on Feb 27, 2020 8:48:20 GMT -5
STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS (2002)
1. Fuckin' in the Bushes
2. Go Let it Out
3. Who Feels Love
4. Little by Little
5. The Hindu Times (Demo Arrangement)
6. Gas Panic!
7. Where Did it All Go Wrong?
8. Stop Crying Your Heart Out
9. Let's All Make Believe
10. Roll it Over
Boom. Big comeback. All songs sang by LG. Critical acclaim, twenty-five million copies sold, all male children born in the UK for the next five years named either Liam or Noel.
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Post by ossieoss30 on Feb 27, 2020 8:52:19 GMT -5
For my playlist I cut I Hope, I Think, I Know and The Girl In the Dirty Shirt from Be Here Now making that album a tad shorter, thus a better listen. I then added those songs, as well as Let’s All Make Believe to Giants and got rid of Liar. 1) Fuckin in the Bushes 2) Go Let It Out 3) Where Did It All Go Wrong? 4) The Girl In The Dirty Shirt 5) Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is 6) Gas Panic 7) Sunday Morning Call 8) Let’s All Make Believe 9) Who Feels Love? 10) Little James 11) I Hope, I Think, I Know 12) Roll It Over And bizarrely, I listen to this album/playlist more than DM and MG. Those BHN songs stick out like a sore thumb on SOTSOG. Both sonically and lyrically. I know it shouldn’t work, but it works a treat for my ears. Giants is missing a couple of rockers and Liar is a poor rocker. Be Here Now is too long so clipping those songs makes Be Here Now a better listen too. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Feb 27, 2020 9:02:21 GMT -5
There's no correct way to categories songs so anyone can do so however they like. Personally I believe tying songs into the album cycles makes the most sense (DM/(WTS)MG?/BHN/SOTSOG/HC/DBTT/DOYS/Post-DOYS). An overly simple version of how I do so is by considering everything written after an album recording session as being in contention for the next album and therefore part of the subsequent album era. There are some outliers but I take these on a case by case basis and would happily explain any examples. I fail to see why it's "bizarre" for Noel to consider 'Teotihuacan' for his follow up to 'Be Here Now'. Some of the tracks on that tape could have been written before 'Teotihuacan' and the track very definitely fits stylistically. The demo to 'Force of Nature' featured as part of the soundtrack to 'Love, Honour and Obey' (released 7 Apr 00) before being re-released on 'Heathen Chemistry' over 2 years later. I guess my point is Teotihuacan was already a fully formed and a released track with plenty of attention from being on a summer block buster x files movie coming hot off the heels of BHN. For me it’s weird for him to take it and apply it to SOTSOG two years later. Force of Nature like you said was a demo, I don’t believe it was on the album and the hype for that faded rather quickly. I don’t think most USA fans even knew of its existence since we couldn’t see the film. Ok I better understand what you're saying. What you describe is a fair enough argument for excluding 'Teotihuacan' from the final album but ultimately, with the points I previously stated, I believe it should still be considered as part of the 'SOTSOG' era. I think it's possible to argue for independence from any era but I believe the 'SOTSOG' case is stronger and the 'BHN' one is pretty non existent. |
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Post by Headmaster on Feb 27, 2020 9:05:48 GMT -5
Has anyone else noticed that the sound quality of PYMWYMI is worse than the rest of the album? I would say it's rawer not worse, it's rawer on purpose, some distortion to give a dirty effect on it, unlike ICSAL which the production isn't as tight as the rest of the album. |
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shibs
Madferrit Fan
Posts: 52
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Post by shibs on Feb 27, 2020 11:50:27 GMT -5
Great album. listened to it last night for the first time in a while, agree that they could have done with dropping put yer money and liar for full on and let's all make believe. remember at the time it just sounded production wise a leap up from the first 3. go let it out, gas panic, roll it over all fantastic tunes. where did it all go wrong is one of the best noel sung songs on any record they did. maybe drop sunday morning call for carry us all too. minor quibbles, got some fanastic memories round the time of this record
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Post by World71R on Feb 27, 2020 12:08:28 GMT -5
STANDING ON THE SHOULDERS OF GIANTS (2002)1. Fuckin' in the Bushes 2. Go Let it Out 3. Who Feels Love 4. Stop Crying Your Heart Out 5. The Hindu Times (Demo Arrangement) 6. Gas Panic! 7. Where Did it All Go Wrong? 8. Little by Little 9. Let's All Make Believe 10. Roll it Over Boom. Big comeback. Critical acclaim, twenty-five million copies sold, all male children born in the UK for the next five years named either Liam or Noel. This goes with what The Crimson Rambler was talking about with making BHN not a sign of things to come but a misstep. I like this tracklisting. It's got the right blend of HC and SOTSOG songs and right blend of Liam and Noel songs. If possible, I'd try to find a place for Born on a Different Cloud (imagine how strong of a first public foray into songwriting that would've been for Liam to flaunt?), maybe by Gas Panic or Little by Little, but that's about it. |
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Post by World71R on Feb 27, 2020 12:11:30 GMT -5
The ultimate way to sequence the album, using songs and version that actually exist, would've been, imo:
Fuckin' in the Bushes
Go Let it Out
Who Feels Love?
Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is (shortened)
Let's All Make Believe
Gas Panic!
Where Did it All Go Wrong? (Demo)
Sunday Morning Call (Acoustic; shortened)
Roll it Over
Stop Crying Your Heart Out
I got something coming later tonight that fleshes out everything from Put Yer Money... to SCYHO that I'll post.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 12:24:45 GMT -5
Half a great album there. The other half pish.
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Post by The Escapist on Feb 27, 2020 12:33:49 GMT -5
1) Fuckin in the Bushes 2) Go Let It Out 3) Where Did It All Go Wrong? 4) The Girl In The Dirty Shirt 5) Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is 6) Gas Panic 7) Sunday Morning Call 8) Let’s All Make Believe 9) Who Feels Love? 10) Little James 11) I Hope, I Think, I Know 12) Roll It Over And bizarrely, I listen to this album/playlist more than DM and MG. This might be the most bizarre revised tracklisting I've seen on here, with the possible exception of that guy who replaced Wonderwall with It's Better People on Morning Glory. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5