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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 7:37:40 GMT -5
I still think it sounds a bit uninspired but it’s better than the other tracks. I don’t know how many if you work in a creative field but if someone directed you saying “create a piece of work like *insert name*” or a certain style, if you’re good at your craft then you could probably do a decent approximation but it would be pretty uninspired because you’re working to an instruction not on inspiration. That’s how all these songs sound to me. Totally agree. That's the problem with writing in the studio. It's plan over inspiration. That's why some people are put off by these songs. The melodies are unlike Noel past work, because the instrumentation has been (i believe, we'll hear the record), put above the melody. The result being that you get generic melodies, that revolve more around rhythm than notes, with short lines (stop and go like "the one i love...stop... nanana" or "do you like dance...stop... nanana") during the verses. In that sense, Beautiful world and the One i Love are quite similar. I quite like HM and FK, but the other two i'm not convinced so far. Which is new for Gallagher tunes, because in the past, even by just hearing a live version, there was 90% of the tune right there. Here, we only get 50%, so the studio versions are gonna be crucial. I believe that is where most of the work has been done, and also why there is only (likely) 8 sung songs. I dont believe a songwriter can totally change his way of writing. Noel mostly wrote his best songs in 5 minutes, they come from nowhere, like they are given to them. Not to say i've written good songs, but usually, the best melodies are coming like that, in an instant. Like they are floating around and you just grab them. So far, we've had some melodies, but melodies that clearly sound from "in the studio" rather than "in Noel's bedroom". I don’t quite understand why a producer would be working with a very good songwriter like Noel Gallagher and essentially strip away his best assets and make him write in a way he is average at. If a producer is that good, they can take what you do well and push it into new sonic territory. Look at Spike Stent with SOTSOG, alright maybe all the songs weren’t great and not that experimental but he allowed for Noel to do what he does best and took it in different directions in term of production and when the song worked, it really worked because everyone involved is working to their strengths. If you have someone with an exceptional talent then either use it or don’t bother at all. No point in forcing them to do something that they’re average at. It’s like a manager asking Ronaldo to play with 1 foot. |
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Post by oasis6 on Nov 6, 2017 7:42:26 GMT -5
I still think it sounds a bit uninspired but it’s better than the other tracks. I don’t know how many if you work in a creative field but if someone directed you saying “create a piece of work like *insert name*” or a certain style, if you’re good at your craft then you could probably do a decent approximation but it would be pretty uninspired because you’re working to an instruction not on inspiration. That’s how all these songs sound to me. Totally agree. That's the problem with writing in the studio. It's plan over inspiration. That's why some people are put off by these songs. The melodies are unlike Noel past work, because the instrumentation has been (i believe, we'll hear the record), put above the melody. The result being that you get generic melodies, that revolve more around rhythm than notes, with short lines (stop and go like "the one i love...stop... nanana" or "do you like dance...stop... nanana") during the verses. In that sense, Beautiful world and the One i Love are quite similar. I quite like HM and FK, but the other two i'm not convinced so far. Which is new for Gallagher tunes, because in the past, even by just hearing a live version, there was 90% of the tune right there. Here, we only get 50%, so the studio versions are gonna be crucial. I believe that is where most of the work has been done, and also why there is only (likely) 8 sung songs. I dont believe a songwriter can totally change his way of writing. Noel mostly wrote his best songs in 5 minutes, they come from nowhere, like they are given to them. Not to say i've written good songs, but usually, the best melodies are coming like that, in an instant. Like they are floating around and you just grab them. So far, we've had some melodies, but melodies that clearly sound from "in the studio" rather than "in Noel's bedroom". I hear what you are saying. I'm hoping for an album like Lonresim by Tame Impala, where you get both instrumentation and melodies. incredible album. I'm not sure Noel is capable of an album like this. So far, Fort Knox is on the right track. IABW and STMHTF sound good instrumentation-wise, but not sure if the top notch melody will be there, though IABW is quite good. If anything, Liam's It Doesn't Have to be That Way is closest to what I am looking for, followed by Fort Knox. |
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Post by freddy838 on Nov 6, 2017 7:46:19 GMT -5
Totally agree. That's the problem with writing in the studio. It's plan over inspiration. That's why some people are put off by these songs. The melodies are unlike Noel past work, because the instrumentation has been (i believe, we'll hear the record), put above the melody. The result being that you get generic melodies, that revolve more around rhythm than notes, with short lines (stop and go like "the one i love...stop... nanana" or "do you like dance...stop... nanana") during the verses. In that sense, Beautiful world and the One i Love are quite similar. I quite like HM and FK, but the other two i'm not convinced so far. Which is new for Gallagher tunes, because in the past, even by just hearing a live version, there was 90% of the tune right there. Here, we only get 50%, so the studio versions are gonna be crucial. I believe that is where most of the work has been done, and also why there is only (likely) 8 sung songs. I dont believe a songwriter can totally change his way of writing. Noel mostly wrote his best songs in 5 minutes, they come from nowhere, like they are given to them. Not to say i've written good songs, but usually, the best melodies are coming like that, in an instant. Like they are floating around and you just grab them. So far, we've had some melodies, but melodies that clearly sound from "in the studio" rather than "in Noel's bedroom". I don’t quite understand why a producer would be working with a very good songwriter like Noel Gallagher and essentially strip away his best assets and make him write in a way he is average at. If a producer is that good, they can take what you do well and push it into new sonic territory. Look at Spike Stent with SOTSOG, alright maybe all the songs weren’t great and not that experimental but he allowed for Noel to do what he does best and took it in different directions in term of production and when the song worked, it really worked because everyone involved is working to their strengths. If you have someone with an exceptional talent then either use it or don’t bother at all. No point in forcing them to do something that they’re average at. It’s like a manager asking Ronaldo to play with 1 foot. Nailed it. I'd certainly love the opportunity to compare the AA album to this new one, but I guess we will never get that chance. |
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Post by LlAM on Nov 6, 2017 7:54:47 GMT -5
I don’t quite understand why a producer would be working with a very good songwriter like Noel Gallagher and essentially strip away his best assets and make him write in a way he is average at. If a producer is that good, they can take what you do well and push it into new sonic territory. Look at Spike Stent with SOTSOG, alright maybe all the songs weren’t great and not that experimental but he allowed for Noel to do what he does best and took it in different directions in term of production and when the song worked, it really worked because everyone involved is working to their strengths. If you have someone with an exceptional talent then either use it or don’t bother at all. No point in forcing them to do something that they’re average at. It’s like a manager asking Ronaldo to play with 1 foot. Hmm... I see what you mean... But I doubt the producer has set the rules. I bet Noel has told him how he wants to work on this album. Also the comparison with Ronaldo is a bit unfair, cos I can't blame Noel for being a bit bored with always using his best foot, thus grasping an opportunity to use his weaker foot and forcing himself to discover new inspiration. Who Built The Moon might not be for everyone, but it could only have a positive effect on his next records, giving him experience that he'd otherwise never get. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 8:04:53 GMT -5
I don’t quite understand why a producer would be working with a very good songwriter like Noel Gallagher and essentially strip away his best assets and make him write in a way he is average at. If a producer is that good, they can take what you do well and push it into new sonic territory. Look at Spike Stent with SOTSOG, alright maybe all the songs weren’t great and not that experimental but he allowed for Noel to do what he does best and took it in different directions in term of production and when the song worked, it really worked because everyone involved is working to their strengths. If you have someone with an exceptional talent then either use it or don’t bother at all. No point in forcing them to do something that they’re average at. It’s like a manager asking Ronaldo to play with 1 foot. Hmm... I see what you mean... But I doubt the producer has set the rules. I bet Noel has told him how he wants to work on this album. Also the comparison with Ronaldo is a bit unfair, cos I can't blame Noel for being a bit bored with always using his best foot, thus grasping an opportunity to use his weaker foot and forcing himself to discover new inspiration. Who Built The Moon might not be for everyone, but it could only have a positive effect on his next records, giving him experience that he'd otherwise never get. Noel said in interviews that Holmes told him To write a song like Blondie and Kanye. He also said that he would play things and Holmes would basically piece it together into a song and Noel had to write to it. So it seems Holmes was setting the rules and obviously Noel seemed happy to go along with it. I get it, if you’re getting a guy like Holmes in, you have to let him do his thing but to the point where it’s detrimental to the song writing because you’re working in a way that isn’t playing to your strengths? I’m not sure Ironically, this process sounds the same as the AA sessions and he said that’s why he stopped working on it. |
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Post by LlAM on Nov 6, 2017 8:19:49 GMT -5
Hmm... I see what you mean... But I doubt the producer has set the rules. I bet Noel has told him how he wants to work on this album. Also the comparison with Ronaldo is a bit unfair, cos I can't blame Noel for being a bit bored with always using his best foot, thus grasping an opportunity to use his weaker foot and forcing himself to discover new inspiration. Who Built The Moon might not be for everyone, but it could only have a positive effect on his next records, giving him experience that he'd otherwise never get. Noel said in interviews that Holmes told him To write a song like Blondie and Kanye. He also said that he would play things and Holmes would basically piece it together into a song and Noel had to write to it. So it seems Holmes was setting the rules and obviously Noel seemed happy to go along with it. I get it, if you’re getting a guy like Holmes in, you have to let him do his thing but to the point where it’s detrimental to the song writing because you’re working in a way that isn’t playing to your strengths? I’m not sure Ironically, this process sounds the same as the AA sessions and he said that’s why he stopped working on it. What I mean is, Noel told him that's how he wants to work. I.e. setting the rules. I don't think it was the producers choice. So I don't think it's fair to say it's the producer who has stripped away Noel's best assets. |
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Post by icebreath on Nov 6, 2017 8:23:25 GMT -5
Hmm... I see what you mean... But I doubt the producer has set the rules. I bet Noel has told him how he wants to work on this album. Also the comparison with Ronaldo is a bit unfair, cos I can't blame Noel for being a bit bored with always using his best foot, thus grasping an opportunity to use his weaker foot and forcing himself to discover new inspiration. Who Built The Moon might not be for everyone, but it could only have a positive effect on his next records, giving him experience that he'd otherwise never get. Ironically, this process sounds the same as the AA sessions and he said that’s why he stopped working on it. The only difference is the songwriting credits. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 8:28:50 GMT -5
Noel said in interviews that Holmes told him To write a song like Blondie and Kanye. He also said that he would play things and Holmes would basically piece it together into a song and Noel had to write to it. So it seems Holmes was setting the rules and obviously Noel seemed happy to go along with it. I get it, if you’re getting a guy like Holmes in, you have to let him do his thing but to the point where it’s detrimental to the song writing because you’re working in a way that isn’t playing to your strengths? I’m not sure Ironically, this process sounds the same as the AA sessions and he said that’s why he stopped working on it. What I mean is, Noel told him that's how he wants to work. I.e. setting the rules. I don't think it was the producers choice. So I don't think it's fair to say it's the producer who has stripped away Noel's best assets. Well I have to disagree with you seeing the process of the album come straight from Noel’s mouth that Holmes is telling him to write certain styles of song or scrap songs that sound too much like himself. The buck stops with Noel though, he obviously put his faith into Holmes enough to do what he tells him to do. If he likes it then that’s fair enough. To me personally it all sounds a bit forced and uninspired and to me it’s fairly obvious why. Any producer worth their salt should be able to take an artists talent and style and take it to new places rather than just say “write a song like Blondie”. Holmes idea of composing on this album is no different to how songwriting teams work on two-bit rubbish pop songs for major labels, settings out to write in the style of something else rather than inspiration. I’d know, I’ve done that for a living. |
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Post by andymorris on Nov 6, 2017 8:32:31 GMT -5
I think the AA project was meant to fail because the songs Noel had at the time where to ballady. they just couldn't work with an "Out there" producer.
That's essentially why Holmes denied all his pre written songs. being a dance producer he knows that melodies that go with that kind of song have to be more repetitive and less heart, less structured, respond to a drum bit, go along with a good bassline. Let the instruments do the talking instead of the tune.
It's a totally different approach to music.
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 8:40:12 GMT -5
I think the AA project was meant to fail because the songs Noel had at the time where to ballady. they just couldn't work with an "Out there" producer. That's essentially why Holmes denied all his pre written songs. being a dance producer he knows that melodies that go with that kind of song have to be more repetitive and less heart, less structured, respond to a drum bit, go along with a good bassline. Let the instruments do the talking instead of the tune. It's a totally different approach to music. Indeed but they were doing what Holmes did, essentially creating music out of parts Noel and co. Played and then Noel writing to it. That’s how The Right Stuff was made. Gaz cobain initially composed a lot of the music for that and Noel added the vocal melody. Maybe the process or style is a bit different but also has a lot of similarities. I can only assume Noel liked what he heard more from the Holmes sessions and felt it was the right time to take the direction he has. Maybe he felt AA were taking too much control with the direction and it wasn’t feeling like a real collaboration. |
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Post by draper on Nov 6, 2017 9:09:52 GMT -5
Listened to it a couple of times today.
Have to admit I love this one.
Good vocals as well.
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Post by Jim G. on Nov 6, 2017 9:19:50 GMT -5
Aside from Fort Knox, which is amazing, there’s nothing really as adventurous or out there as people were saying/expecting.
And, as much as I like some of the new songs, none of them touched me or excited me like Riverman, Mighty I or Right Stuff, for example. Saying that it’s uptempo and more joyous is not enough for me, I’m afraid.
Still looking forward to listen to it, obviously.
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Post by bt95 on Nov 6, 2017 10:14:15 GMT -5
Yeh, my one worry about this album is that Holmes has taken too much of Noel's knack for a chorus or 'umph' moment away, purely because 'it sounds like Oasis'.
It's Noel's greatest asset. It just needed sprucing up a bit.
I do like all the tracks so far, though. IABW will be better on record than live, IMO.
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Post by oasis6 on Nov 6, 2017 10:15:00 GMT -5
Had a proper listen on better speakers and really loving this one. Love the guitar bit during the French lyrics. Liking the mix of melody and instrumentation here, and the overall feel and mood of the song.
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Post by chamu on Nov 6, 2017 10:27:52 GMT -5
Totally agree. That's the problem with writing in the studio. It's plan over inspiration. That's why some people are put off by these songs. The melodies are unlike Noel past work, because the instrumentation has been (i believe, we'll hear the record), put above the melody. The result being that you get generic melodies, that revolve more around rhythm than notes, with short lines (stop and go like "the one i love...stop... nanana" or "do you like dance...stop... nanana") during the verses. In that sense, Beautiful world and the One i Love are quite similar. I quite like HM and FK, but the other two i'm not convinced so far. Which is new for Gallagher tunes, because in the past, even by just hearing a live version, there was 90% of the tune right there. Here, we only get 50%, so the studio versions are gonna be crucial. I believe that is where most of the work has been done, and also why there is only (likely) 8 sung songs. I dont believe a songwriter can totally change his way of writing. Noel mostly wrote his best songs in 5 minutes, they come from nowhere, like they are given to them. Not to say i've written good songs, but usually, the best melodies are coming like that, in an instant. Like they are floating around and you just grab them. So far, we've had some melodies, but melodies that clearly sound from "in the studio" rather than "in Noel's bedroom". I don’t quite understand why a producer would be working with a very good songwriter like Noel Gallagher and essentially strip away his best assets and make him write in a way he is average at. If a producer is that good, they can take what you do well and push it into new sonic territory. Look at Spike Stent with SOTSOG, alright maybe all the songs weren’t great and not that experimental but he allowed for Noel to do what he does best and took it in different directions in term of production and when the song worked, it really worked because everyone involved is working to their strengths. If you have someone with an exceptional talent then either use it or don’t bother at all. No point in forcing them to do something that they’re average at. It’s like a manager asking Ronaldo to play with 1 foot. Bingo! You nailed it. That´s basically what i was trying to say. This bunch of songs sound very average for me because they haven´t Noel´s soul in. Cool rhythms, cool sounds, very good instrumentation but songwriting isn´t there. And what i can feel with this album is an unfinished, rushed collection of songs giving to the production all the attention |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Nov 6, 2017 10:54:51 GMT -5
Totally agree. That's the problem with writing in the studio. It's plan over inspiration. That's why some people are put off by these songs. The melodies are unlike Noel past work, because the instrumentation has been (i believe, we'll hear the record), put above the melody. The result being that you get generic melodies, that revolve more around rhythm than notes, with short lines (stop and go like "the one i love...stop... nanana" or "do you like dance...stop... nanana") during the verses. In that sense, Beautiful world and the One i Love are quite similar. I quite like HM and FK, but the other two i'm not convinced so far. Which is new for Gallagher tunes, because in the past, even by just hearing a live version, there was 90% of the tune right there. Here, we only get 50%, so the studio versions are gonna be crucial. I believe that is where most of the work has been done, and also why there is only (likely) 8 sung songs. I dont believe a songwriter can totally change his way of writing. Noel mostly wrote his best songs in 5 minutes, they come from nowhere, like they are given to them. Not to say i've written good songs, but usually, the best melodies are coming like that, in an instant. Like they are floating around and you just grab them. So far, we've had some melodies, but melodies that clearly sound from "in the studio" rather than "in Noel's bedroom". I don’t quite understand why a producer would be working with a very good songwriter like Noel Gallagher and essentially strip away his best assets and make him write in a way he is average at. If a producer is that good, they can take what you do well and push it into new sonic territory. Look at Spike Stent with SOTSOG, alright maybe all the songs weren’t great and not that experimental but he allowed for Noel to do what he does best and took it in different directions in term of production and when the song worked, it really worked because everyone involved is working to their strengths. If you have someone with an exceptional talent then either use it or don’t bother at all. No point in forcing them to do something that they’re average at. It’s like a manager asking Ronaldo to play with 1 foot. Sometimes extraordinary things can occur. Look at when Radiohead put the guitars away and cooked up Kid A and Amnesiac. People thought they were mad but the results were beautiful and impactful. Same could be said with the Beatles on Pepper and Mystery Tour. They recorded totally different than previous, both in terms of their own history and what was going on elsewhere with other bands. You can’t be scared to try new things. You gotta keep going. I can say similar things for David Bowie, Bob Dylan and Neil Young. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 11:38:28 GMT -5
I don’t quite understand why a producer would be working with a very good songwriter like Noel Gallagher and essentially strip away his best assets and make him write in a way he is average at. If a producer is that good, they can take what you do well and push it into new sonic territory. Look at Spike Stent with SOTSOG, alright maybe all the songs weren’t great and not that experimental but he allowed for Noel to do what he does best and took it in different directions in term of production and when the song worked, it really worked because everyone involved is working to their strengths. If you have someone with an exceptional talent then either use it or don’t bother at all. No point in forcing them to do something that they’re average at. It’s like a manager asking Ronaldo to play with 1 foot. Sometimes extraordinary things can occur. Look at when Radiohead put the guitars away and cooked up Kid A and Amnesiac. People thought they were mad but the results were beautiful and impactful. Same could be said with the Beatles on Pepper and Mystery Tour. They recorded totally different than previous, both in terms of their own history and what was going on elsewhere with other bands. You can’t be scared to try new things. You gotta keep going. I can say similar things for David Bowie, Bob Dylan and Neil Young. I agree, i've always said i have no interest in hearing another Noel solo record if it's the same old, same old. The thing is, all those artists seemed to be creatively in control. They weren't having people say "go write a song like.." like Holmes was doing with Noel, nor did they have producers who would say "it sounds too much like yourself, write something else". This is the point i'm making, their ventures into new style seem more organic and they were the one's often in charge of the direction. George Martin wasn't telling Lennon to go write a song like somebody else, he was working with what Lennon brought in and enhanced it and took it somewhere new, just like Godrich did with Radiohead. They were all writing what they felt like writing at the time, where their inspirations and evolution as writers was taking them. Noel was told to turn up with no songs and Holmes would suggest styles of songs to write. It's vastly different. Go listen to Kid A or Pepper...then listen to Noel's new stuff. There's a stark difference. You can hear which music is from pure inspiration and from within and which one is just writing on demand because it needs to be done. |
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Nov 6, 2017 11:51:02 GMT -5
Sometimes extraordinary things can occur. Look at when Radiohead put the guitars away and cooked up Kid A and Amnesiac. People thought they were mad but the results were beautiful and impactful. Same could be said with the Beatles on Pepper and Mystery Tour. They recorded totally different than previous, both in terms of their own history and what was going on elsewhere with other bands. You can’t be scared to try new things. You gotta keep going. I can say similar things for David Bowie, Bob Dylan and Neil Young. I agree, i've always said i have no interest in hearing another Noel solo record if it's the same old, same old. The thing is, all those artists seemed to be creatively in control. They weren't having people say "go write a song like.." like Holmes was doing with Noel, nor did they have producers who would say "it sounds too much like yourself, write something else". This is the point i'm making, their ventures into new style seem more organic and they were the one's often in charge of the direction. George Martin wasn't telling Lennon to go write a song like somebody else, he was working with what Lennon brought in and enhanced it and took it somewhere new, just like Godrich did with Radiohead. They were all writing what they felt like writing at the time, where their inspirations and evolution as writers was taking them. Noel was told to turn up with no songs and Holmes would suggest styles of songs to write. It's vastly different. Go listen to Kid A or Pepper...then listen to Noel's new stuff. There's a stark difference. You can hear which music is from pure inspiration and from within and which one is just writing on demand because it needs to be done. Let's remember though that Noel is Noel, and he doesn't do anything he doesn't want to do. He wanted this arrangement with Holmes. He was happy with this arrangement with Holmes. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have pursued this record in the way it was recorded. It was a way of testing himself, taking himself out of his comfort zone, trying a new way to write music. Has the experiment worked or failed? Judging by the 4 tracks we have heard so far, I think its worked, particularly when I am rating these songs higher than much of his previous 2 albums and Oasis Mk2. Whatever they did to make this record, its certainly worked so far. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 12:05:00 GMT -5
I agree, i've always said i have no interest in hearing another Noel solo record if it's the same old, same old. The thing is, all those artists seemed to be creatively in control. They weren't having people say "go write a song like.." like Holmes was doing with Noel, nor did they have producers who would say "it sounds too much like yourself, write something else". This is the point i'm making, their ventures into new style seem more organic and they were the one's often in charge of the direction. George Martin wasn't telling Lennon to go write a song like somebody else, he was working with what Lennon brought in and enhanced it and took it somewhere new, just like Godrich did with Radiohead. They were all writing what they felt like writing at the time, where their inspirations and evolution as writers was taking them. Noel was told to turn up with no songs and Holmes would suggest styles of songs to write. It's vastly different. Go listen to Kid A or Pepper...then listen to Noel's new stuff. There's a stark difference. You can hear which music is from pure inspiration and from within and which one is just writing on demand because it needs to be done. Let's remember though that Noel is Noel, and he doesn't do anything he doesn't want to do. He wanted this arrangement with Holmes. He was happy with this arrangement with Holmes. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have pursued this record in the way it was recorded. It was a way of testing himself, taking himself out of his comfort zone, trying a new way to write music. Has the experiment worked or failed? Judging by the 4 tracks we have heard so far, I think its worked, particularly when I am rating these songs higher than much of his previous 2 albums and Oasis Mk2. Whatever they did to make this record, its certainly worked so far. Well as i said, whether it's good or bad, Noel was obviously happy for Holmes to essentially tell him what style to write and let Holmes tell him to scrap songs, so it's on Noel either way. I don't think it's failed or worked so far. I find it extremely average and lacking in inspiration, but it's not like it's bad either. I think it's just a bit underwhelming. For all the different forms of electronic music Holmes had dabbled in, I find it a bit disappointing for him to ask Noel to write a song like Blondie or Kanye West or whatever else has suggested. I don't find they have done anything all that creative, maybe for Noel's standards but not in general. The songs sound uninspired and even if the production is a little different to the past, it's still very generic in a way, it's like they have dipped their toes into something without diving in. I think Noel and Holmes together could have brought more to the table from each side when you consider their body of work. When i heard he was working with Holmes, I wasn't expecting a cheesy song that then turns into a chorus from Ricky Martin. Also She Taught Me How To Fly sounds just like a thousand indie bands all over Soundcloud, no better or worse. It's a Beautiful World sounds like a 90's U2 cast off or i could just imagine Chris Martin singing that chorus as he bends over begging to be fucked by grammy award trophy. As i say, i just find it a bit underwhelming. Two creative forces coming together and producing something like Holy Mountain? |
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Post by neila83 on Nov 6, 2017 12:07:41 GMT -5
What I mean is, Noel told him that's how he wants to work. I.e. setting the rules. I don't think it was the producers choice. So I don't think it's fair to say it's the producer who has stripped away Noel's best assets. Well I have to disagree with you seeing the process of the album come straight from Noel’s mouth that Holmes is telling him to write certain styles of song or scrap songs that sound too much like himself. The buck stops with Noel though, he obviously put his faith into Holmes enough to do what he tells him to do. If he likes it then that’s fair enough. To me personally it all sounds a bit forced and uninspired and to me it’s fairly obvious why.
Any producer worth their salt should be able to take an artists talent and style and take it to new places rather than just say “write a song like Blondie”. Holmes idea of composing on this album is no different to how songwriting teams work on two-bit rubbish pop songs for major labels, settings out to write in the style of something else rather than inspiration. I’d know, I’ve done that for a living. Sorry, but I don't think you are making informed comment at all. That is complete and utter nonsense. Holmes has most certainly not 'just said write a song like Blondie', and this album is by far the most involved a producer has ever been in a Noel album. I really don't understand what people want, but I know that a lot of people have no idea what they're talking about. There are people saying actually the songs just sound like standard Noel melodies with a few bells and whistles and nothing has really changed. Other people saying Holmes has neutered him, slipped crazy pills into his yorkshire tea, stripped him of all his assets and sacrificed melody for cutting music together ad-hoc and focred NOel into making a David Holmes album. These two things cannot possibly both be true. The truth is probably therefore somewhere in-between, that what Holmes has done, and I think this is his genius, is harness Noel's gift for melody and use it in a different way, and encourage him to explore a new range of melodies. I don't really know how anyone can listen to these songs and say melody has been sacrificed - if anything they're far stronger than a lot of what he was producing on the last albums. It seems this has been enough to completely explode people's minds though. People who yearn for Noel's old style of writing, if you'd really have another album of shuffling the same chords around for IIHAG/TGWTXRE/RM/TDOTL, well we're in a very different place on what gets us excited. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 12:12:41 GMT -5
Well I have to disagree with you seeing the process of the album come straight from Noel’s mouth that Holmes is telling him to write certain styles of song or scrap songs that sound too much like himself. The buck stops with Noel though, he obviously put his faith into Holmes enough to do what he tells him to do. If he likes it then that’s fair enough. To me personally it all sounds a bit forced and uninspired and to me it’s fairly obvious why.
Any producer worth their salt should be able to take an artists talent and style and take it to new places rather than just say “write a song like Blondie”. Holmes idea of composing on this album is no different to how songwriting teams work on two-bit rubbish pop songs for major labels, settings out to write in the style of something else rather than inspiration. I’d know, I’ve done that for a living. Sorry, but I don't think you are making informed comment at all. That is complete and utter nonsense. Holmes has most certainly not 'just said write a song like Blondie', and this album is by far the most involved a producer has ever been in a Noel album. I really don't understand what people want, but I know that a lot of people have no idea what they're talking about. There are people saying actually the songs just sound like standard Noel melodies with a few bells and whistles and nothing has really changed. Other people saying Holmes has neutered him, slipped crazy pills into his yorkshire tea, stripped him of all his assets and sacrificed melody for cutting music together ad-hoc and focred NOel into making a David Holmes album. These two things cannot possibly both be true. The truth is probably therefore somewhere in-between, that what Holmes has done, and I think this is his genius, is harness Noel's gift for melody and use it in a different way, and encourage him to explore a new range of melodies. I don't really know how anyone can listen to these songs and say melody has been sacrificed - if anything they're far stronger than a lot of what he was producing on the last albums. It seems this has been enough to completely explode people's minds though. People who yearn for Noel's old style of writing, if you'd really have another album of shuffling the same chords around for IIHAG/TGWTXRE/RM/TDOTL, well we're in a very different place on what gets us excited. There's nothing uninformed about my opinion. Noel said himself Holmes said to write a song like Blondie. I'm not making it up, go watch the interviews haha. Also, If Holmes has set out to harness Noel's gift for melodies, then Noel is finished in my opinion. I've heard the entire album by the way, and it is lacking in strong melody. I don't even care for the same old Noel-esque melody but nothing i've heard even has anything interesting melodically. None of the music is THAT interesting either, except a couple of tracks. The rest sounds like a million other things you have heard before and that's what's most disappointing. I thought those two together might have made something a bit more unique. It's just rehashed stuff but from other influences than the usual. If Holmes was harnessing Noel's melody, he shouldn't be telling Noel to scrap things because they sound too much like his older work. He should be harnessing that and taking it somewhere else. That's my whole point. |
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Post by neila83 on Nov 6, 2017 12:12:52 GMT -5
Sometimes extraordinary things can occur. Look at when Radiohead put the guitars away and cooked up Kid A and Amnesiac. People thought they were mad but the results were beautiful and impactful. Same could be said with the Beatles on Pepper and Mystery Tour. They recorded totally different than previous, both in terms of their own history and what was going on elsewhere with other bands. You can’t be scared to try new things. You gotta keep going. I can say similar things for David Bowie, Bob Dylan and Neil Young. I agree, i've always said i have no interest in hearing another Noel solo record if it's the same old, same old. The thing is, all those artists seemed to be creatively in control. They weren't having people say "go write a song like.." like Holmes was doing with Noel, nor did they have producers who would say "it sounds too much like yourself, write something else". This is the point i'm making, their ventures into new style seem more organic and they were the one's often in charge of the direction. George Martin wasn't telling Lennon to go write a song like somebody else, he was working with what Lennon brought in and enhanced it and took it somewhere new, just like Godrich did with Radiohead. They were all writing what they felt like writing at the time, where their inspirations and evolution as writers was taking them. Noel was told to turn up with no songs and Holmes would suggest styles of songs to write. It's vastly different. Go listen to Kid A or Pepper...then listen to Noel's new stuff. There's a stark difference. You can hear which music is from pure inspiration and from within and which one is just writing on demand because it needs to be done. I think you put waaaay too much stock in soundbites Noel cooks up for the media during release time. If there's one thing we know about Noel, he doesn't do as he's told. Have a think about that, his usual behaviour during release time, and a few things might dawn on you. |
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Nov 6, 2017 12:14:28 GMT -5
Let's remember though that Noel is Noel, and he doesn't do anything he doesn't want to do. He wanted this arrangement with Holmes. He was happy with this arrangement with Holmes. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have pursued this record in the way it was recorded. It was a way of testing himself, taking himself out of his comfort zone, trying a new way to write music. Has the experiment worked or failed? Judging by the 4 tracks we have heard so far, I think its worked, particularly when I am rating these songs higher than much of his previous 2 albums and Oasis Mk2. Whatever they did to make this record, its certainly worked so far. Well as i said, whether it's good or bad, Noel was obviously happy for Holmes to essentially tell him what style to write and let Holmes tell him to scrap songs, so it's on Noel either way. I don't think it's failed or worked so far. I find it extremely average and lacking in inspiration, but it's not like it's bad either. I think it's just a bit underwhelming. For all the different forms of electronic music Holmes had dabbled in, I find it a bit disappointing for him to ask Noel to write a song like Blondie or Kanye West or whatever else has suggested. I don't find they have done anything all that creative, maybe for Noel's standards but not in general. The songs sound uninspired and even if the production is a little different to the past, it's still very generic in a way, it's like they have dipped their toes into something without diving in. I think Noel and Holmes together could have brought more to the table from each side when you consider their body of work. When i heard he was working with Holmes, I wasn't expecting a cheesy song that then turns into a chorus from Ricky Martin. Also She Taught Me How To Fly sounds just like a thousand indie bands all over Soundcloud, no better or worse. It's a Beautiful World sounds like a 90's U2 cast off or i could just imagine Chris Martin singing that chorus as he bends over begging to be fucked by grammy award trophy. As i say, i just find it a bit underwhelming. Two creative forces coming together and producing something like Holy Mountain? Yet I am finding Holy Mountain the best thing on this record so far, and I am really serious in that I am rating this as high as anything from the 90's Oasis at their absolute peak. It is the most uplifting song he has done in years. STMHTF I really like too. It is catchy as hell, and I cannot stop humming it. When I hear the finished version, I have a feeling I will be rating this as highly as HM. FK ain't bad. It has its moments but I am not overwhelmed by it, and IABW I am not sold on at the moment. It does sound like a U2 rip-off. I am hoping it sounds better on the album. So far I have one outstanding classic, another that could be joining it, and 2 fairly average tracks, but nothing bad so far. |
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Nov 6, 2017 12:19:24 GMT -5
I agree, i've always said i have no interest in hearing another Noel solo record if it's the same old, same old. The thing is, all those artists seemed to be creatively in control. They weren't having people say "go write a song like.." like Holmes was doing with Noel, nor did they have producers who would say "it sounds too much like yourself, write something else". This is the point i'm making, their ventures into new style seem more organic and they were the one's often in charge of the direction. George Martin wasn't telling Lennon to go write a song like somebody else, he was working with what Lennon brought in and enhanced it and took it somewhere new, just like Godrich did with Radiohead. They were all writing what they felt like writing at the time, where their inspirations and evolution as writers was taking them. Noel was told to turn up with no songs and Holmes would suggest styles of songs to write. It's vastly different. Go listen to Kid A or Pepper...then listen to Noel's new stuff. There's a stark difference. You can hear which music is from pure inspiration and from within and which one is just writing on demand because it needs to be done. I think you put waaaay too much stock in soundbites Noel cooks up for the media during release time. If there's one thing we know about Noel, he doesn't do as he's told. Have a think about that, his usual behaviour during release time, and a few things might dawn on you. Exactly. Noel does talk a lot of shite at times, particularly when he bigging up a new record he is about to release. I always take everything he says with a pinch of salt (particularly when he is slagging off BHN....  ) |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 6, 2017 12:20:16 GMT -5
I agree, i've always said i have no interest in hearing another Noel solo record if it's the same old, same old. The thing is, all those artists seemed to be creatively in control. They weren't having people say "go write a song like.." like Holmes was doing with Noel, nor did they have producers who would say "it sounds too much like yourself, write something else". This is the point i'm making, their ventures into new style seem more organic and they were the one's often in charge of the direction. George Martin wasn't telling Lennon to go write a song like somebody else, he was working with what Lennon brought in and enhanced it and took it somewhere new, just like Godrich did with Radiohead. They were all writing what they felt like writing at the time, where their inspirations and evolution as writers was taking them. Noel was told to turn up with no songs and Holmes would suggest styles of songs to write. It's vastly different. Go listen to Kid A or Pepper...then listen to Noel's new stuff. There's a stark difference. You can hear which music is from pure inspiration and from within and which one is just writing on demand because it needs to be done. I think you put waaaay too much stock in soundbites Noel cooks up for the media during release time. If there's one thing we know about Noel, he doesn't do as he's told. Have a think about that, his usual behaviour during release time, and a few things might dawn on you. Well ok, let's not believe anything he says about the creation of the album. Let's just dismiss everything he says if it doesn't tie in with what you want it to. I'll take him at his word. I don't think he is making it up that Holmes has told him to come with nothing and write in the studio and Holmes giving him styles to write in. I absolutely believe that's true. Since he started working with Holmes, he has said Holmes told him to bring no songs at all. That was a couple of years ago, so it's not just soundbites at promo time. Information about how the album was being made has been fairly consistent for a while. |
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