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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 16:59:03 GMT -5
So I'm going into a studio next month, to record an EP. As I haven't a big budget, I can't stay too much time to the studio (not more than 3 days to record 6 songs). So here's my question for people who have already recorded EPs, LPs ( guigsysEstring ?, Cast ?) : Are 3 days enough to record 6 songs ? How organize the work into the studio ? I'd just like to have the most advices possible to be ready enough when it will be time to record these tunes. Thanks in advance
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Post by Thomas on Jun 11, 2016 17:21:43 GMT -5
It's really up to you and your band, if you are a member of any, and how much you've rehearsed. If you're doing acoustic songs (seems like so, since you haven't mentioned any other members – you can be a one-man band though!) it should be smooth and 3 days to record 6 songs it's just fine. Acoustic songs are far more easy to do than full-band ones, just make sure you got a good sound by positioning the mics right However, if you want to produce it yourself you'll need more time. Let us know.
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Post by The Escapist on Jun 11, 2016 17:24:14 GMT -5
Genuinely excited to hear this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 17:46:06 GMT -5
Thomas I'll be accompanied by my stepmother who is a professional violonist and a friend drummer. I'll play acoustic and electric guitars and probably bass and bit of piano, aswell. I have already demoed most of the songs on here (acoustically) but as I'm constantly writing, I don't know with what songs I will end up, and so maybe I'd swap the piano, that I'd play for only two tunes at the moment.
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Post by Thomas on Jun 11, 2016 18:56:36 GMT -5
Nice, lubeck ! I wish you the best of luck. Now, I don't want to scare you or anything, but make sure you have enough time to record the electric guitars properly. They're the most exhausting thing to record, cause they and their amps and pedals and EQs all have very specific configs, tones and sounds. If you can, take some time at home or somewhere else getting their sound right. Of course if you want something Oasis-y you can just go full distortion but it's never that simple. Are you producing it yourself? Are you having help of a producer or audio engineer at the studio?
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Post by guigsysEstring on Jun 11, 2016 19:14:37 GMT -5
Echoing what Thomas said in that you will need more time if you are self producing. The way to approach the recording side if it were me is based on the band you have mentioned (I am assuming you have a studio engineer for recording at this point)- Lay down rhythm section of yourself on electric guitar and the drummer, then overdub the bass, vocals and other parts (acoustic guitar, violin) as you go, you are looking at recording one song including overdubs per half day on the time that you have said you will be booking into the studio. You will need to allow time for retakes, particularly for guitar parts if you are looking to nail a particular sound. Remember that if you are looking for a 'live' feel you can still use say an electric guitar for a rhythm part which on the whole is easier to record with a drummer, and then erase it's track and replace with an acoustic guitar once the drums are down for example. There is a good article on band recordings for things such as acoustic guitars, drums and avoiding things like overspill here- SoundonSound
As a future option for a songwriter on a budget there are home based programs for home recordings, and other software such as EZDrummer which also cost money up front but once purchased can provide long term value for reusing. Let us know how you get on
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 4:11:13 GMT -5
Thomas guigsysEstring Thanks for all these informations ! I haven't a studio engineer at the moment, but as you said, I'll need one. Just a question: what budget should I schedule for all that stuff ?
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Post by guigsysEstring on Jun 12, 2016 4:46:51 GMT -5
Thomas guigsysEstring Thanks for all these informations ! I haven't a studio engineer at the moment, but as you said, I'll need one. Just a question: what budget should I schedule for all that stuff ? It varies wildly rates wise, and also depends where you are based? (Sorry I can't remember where you are from! ) As an example a studio I regularly do sessions (and accounts!) for charges £200 per day for an 8 hour session, or £160 for a six hour session to include the in house sound engineer. That equates to a round €253 or €202 for a clean and maintained studio using a decent console and equipment set up. It is worth cautioning against using the cheapest possible studio as you will find most are cheap for a very good reason. Old or poorly maintained equipment can seriously impair the quality of a recording and you will find that you saved £100 on fees but have a finished product you wouldn't want to actually put out. I know I keep mentioning it but if you are serious about songwriting and producing your own music on a regular basis then it may be worth once again looking into investing into some home equipment, perhaps building up a home studio gradually- it will cut costs for most solo recording projects and you should only need a professional studio for full band or contracted work which hopefully with the latter someone else will be footing the bill anyway! Good luck with the recordings and let us know if we can help with any other advice
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 5:32:32 GMT -5
Thomas guigsysEstring Thanks for all these informations ! I haven't a studio engineer at the moment, but as you said, I'll need one. Just a question: what budget should I schedule for all that stuff ? It varies wildly rates wise, and also depends where you are based? (Sorry I can't remember where you are from! ) As an example a studio I regularly do sessions (and accounts!) for charges £200 per day for an 8 hour session, or £160 for a six hour session to include the in house sound engineer. That equates to a round €253 or €202 for a clean and maintained studio using a decent console and equipment set up. It is worth cautioning against using the cheapest possible studio as you will find most are cheap for a very good reason. Old or poorly maintained equipment can seriously impair the quality of a recording and you will find that you saved £100 on fees but have a finished product you wouldn't want to actually put out. I know I keep mentioning it but if you are serious about songwriting and producing your own music on a regular basis then it may be worth once again looking into investing into some home equipment, perhaps building up a home studio gradually- it will cut costs for most solo recording projects and you should only need a professional studio for full band or contracted work which hopefully with the latter someone else will be footing the bill anyway! Good luck with the recordings and let us know if we can help with any other advice I'm based in a little city in the south of France, and the studio is based in a little village close to it. Thanks for all the budget informations I'll maybe start a band next year, so I don't know if I'll invest on a home studio. I'll see all that during the holiday
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 7:15:08 GMT -5
much respect to you lubeck, and i wish you the best of luck.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 17:55:58 GMT -5
much respect to you lubeck, and i wish you the best of luck. Thank you
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 9:40:16 GMT -5
Good luck man!
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Post by keke on Jun 14, 2016 15:45:13 GMT -5
Good luck, best wishes
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 16:03:26 GMT -5
@driver7 keke Thanks guys
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2016 16:36:14 GMT -5
Better jot down a schedule for yourself.
Break down your day into segments and allot time for each part of each song to be recorded. Try your best to stick to the schedule since you're on a budget and have time constraints. It's okay if you finish a segment early, just move on. You'll be glad to have that time later in the day I'm sure. But if you start to go long, then you could easily end up in a rabbit's hole that is impossible to recover from. Before you know it, your 6 songs is cut to 4 because time caught up with you.
Basically, plan the hell out of your time in order to maximize what you can get done.
Good luck! Can't wait for a listen.
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Post by spaneli on Jun 14, 2016 16:48:40 GMT -5
This feels like something that would require more than three days. If you've really only explored through acoustic demos, even with practice sessions with the people you are playing with, you'll most likely explore more of the songs through the recording process than most people would. I would try to create more realized demos before going into the studio. Get some decent equipment on your own, make some three piece click track timed demos, and then go into the actual recording process with a more defined idea of what you may be looking for on the songs.
I agree with guigsy. I would lay down the rhythm and drums first. Then overdub every thing else. Strings should be the last instrument laid down, and depending on what else you're using, vocals the second to last. I would say that most finicky portion of recording, and what is going to define your sound, will be how you mic up the drums. The drums define the song in my opinion. More so than guitar tone or vocals. It's the drums. The more mics you go with, the more precise the sound you want. The less mics you go with, the more you'll start progressing toward 50/60's sound, and the more bleed you may have. There are obviously, standard and default mic set-ups you can go with. However, I have always found that the largest amount of your recording time will require, re-takes, equipment set-up, soundchecking, and then the movement of those mics, especially if you want a live sound or if you want room noise. The mic set-up for Bowie's vocals on Heroes for example require three mics at varying distances. Without knowing the space I'm recording in, I would worry most about mic placement, especially if I were going for a specific sound. Lastly, any instrument on any part will take you at least 5-10 more takes than you think it will. When recording at a studio, at least a third of your time will not be spent recording the actual songs. That is why it will be imperative for your band to be fully practiced and acquainted with the songs and their parts.
Personally, I have rarely been in a 'professional' recording studio. I have usually demoed on my own, practiced with my band, and typically I have had friends who have more than solid recording equipment, space, and techniques. I've always paid a flat fee, which has always worked best because then I can work on a project for as long as I want without watching the clock run (which in my opinion, is not a good way to make music), and I can live with the songs and re-assess what I have and then change it later. So you're always growing with a song, even if you've had it for some time. My best memories of recording have always been, staying up till late with a couple beers, recording, going to sleep, eating breakfast at the recording space, and continuing recording. You and the producer get on a good page together. Now obviously, not everyone has the luxury to do this, but I guess my grander point is don't be in a rush to put out an EP for the sake of having some songs. Continue to grow those songs. I rushed my first EP, and I regretted it later. If you can find the opportunity to take slower, then do it. Get it the way you want it. Get it to the best you can, and not the best you can get at the moment. It'll be an overall more excited experience.
Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 6:04:17 GMT -5
@kitjenson spaneli thanks a lot for all the advices ! The reason I want to record tgese songs in July is because I'm going to university in september, in an on otger city. I fear to not have too much time next year, at least during the first months, to go into a studio. And there's the budget problem aswell. Plus my stepmother will not live in the same city anymore, as my friend. Maybe should I wait an other year before doing it ? Also, should I make some gigs in pubs and all to get a bit recognition at least in my city ?
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Post by guigsysEstring on Jun 15, 2016 6:11:25 GMT -5
@kitjenson spaneli thanks a lot for all the advices ! The reason I want to record tgese songs in July is because I'm going to university in september, in an on otger city. I fear to not have too much time next year, at least during the first months, to go into a studio. And there's the budget problem aswell. Plus my stepmother will not live in the same city anymore, as my friend. Maybe should I wait an other year before doing it ? Also, should I make some gigs in pubs and all to get a bit recognition at least in my city ? If you haven't played any gigs then not many people outside your circle of friends will have any idea of your music- it would be best perhaps to postpone recording and instead build up your reputation playing open mic nights and gigs wherever you can first, either just you and a guitar or with a band- I thought you were gigging already for some reason The benefits will be that you hone your songs live and find out what is working , which ones people like, which ones to drop, etc. before spending money on recording, which in turn will allow you time to build up the money to record an EP. You may also find after gigging and maybe being in a band that your songs and/or style changes substantially, and so you may make your first recordings without the people you initially planned- this isn't necessarily a bad thing or a slight on them, but rather a natural progression of your music. Depending on where you go to University you may find a good local music scene with perhaps rehearsal rooms and studios to meet other musicians and play gigs, so don't put all your eggs into one basket by rushing to complete an EP because of other things going on in your life- you have time to develop your live sound and songs first
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 7:12:22 GMT -5
Oasis struggled with recording Definitely Maybe, because they were not polished at playing together and had no idea what it really meant to be in a studio recording. If you can stomach it, then I'd suggest spending the next while polishing your sound, act, songs, etc. Play some pubs. Get some opinions of people around you. All this will be extremely valuable to you down the road.
Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to learning music. Writing, producing, and performing all must be learned the good old fashioned way... hard work and time. Additionally, there is no shame in putting together a rough cut demo of songs that can be polished later in the studio.
Again, good luck with all your efforts.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 11:38:25 GMT -5
I have shared some of my songs on a songwriting forum and the feedbacks weren't very positive at all. I guess I need to write better songs to record an EP, better than the ones I have in my pocket at the moment.
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Post by clovious on Jun 25, 2016 13:17:24 GMT -5
you shouldnt really care what others think of your songs as long as you're honest and believe in yourself. if you're applying for acceptence you're only limiting yourself
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 11:00:17 GMT -5
you shouldnt really care what others think of your songs as long as you're honest and believe in yourself. if you're applying for acceptence you're only limiting yourself I do agree with "acceptance is limiting". I write for myself but I also want to be as good as possible and to record things really as good as possible. It's more perfectionism
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Post by Adam on Jun 26, 2016 14:08:28 GMT -5
you shouldnt really care what others think of your songs as long as you're honest and believe in yourself. if you're applying for acceptence you're only limiting yourself I do agree with "acceptance is limiting". I write for myself but I also want to be as good as possible and to record things really as good as possible. It's more perfectionism If you have the cash spare and the opportunity, then go for it. The experience will do you wonders and having your early attempts on record may be a good record of how well you've done in the future...
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Post by Cast on Jun 28, 2016 0:30:13 GMT -5
If you're well practiced and are doing full day sessions in the studio. 3 days is a decent amount of time to at least track 6 songs. I've done a bit of recording on both sides of the glass (engineer and musician), and things can get off track pretty quickly when dealing with artistic types, and that can cost you a bit of money and can be a bit troubling to manage.
It's different for each session and with each band I've found. I've done 6 songs in a day in a professional studio and about half of it came out alright. Last fall I did some recording at a friends house, which has a very professional setup/feel for the environment and we cut two songs in a span of 2.5 days with regards to tracking. Mixing and mastering took a couple of months.
Being a perfectionist is a double edge sword that many creative struggle with. NEVER compromise you art or "settle" for anything less than your best. If you have to rehearse, re-record, a song 15 times, then do it 15 times. It needs to be right for you (and whom you're working with), before it can be right for anyone else. That said, don't get caught up insane details of it all, b/c honestly there's SO many great songs that aren't perfect and end of being perfect anyways. Taking creative breaks is healthy and allows you to gain some perspective on your work.
Also not to be a debbie downer, this is more encouragement than anything, but sometimes it'll take awhile. To get that awesome song sorted out, to get that guitar part EQed just right, etc. Art is about the journey as much as it is a finished work. Fall in love with the process. Yeah the best songs, tend to come in spur of the moment inspiration, but enjoy and learn from the parts that make it frustrating. If the songs don't come out right the first time you pay to go into the studio, don't fret over it too much. Definitely Maybe went though like 5984930323 mixes and hands before it became the record we know it as. Just keep writing, and find people who understand you as an artist and what you are trying to do. Working with great people, either in a band or in a producer setting makes creating so much easier and more enjoyable, especially in the earlier stages of development.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 14:09:06 GMT -5
Thanks Cast for all these informations and advices. Highly appreciated Here's my new demo, called "Liar".
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