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Post by Flatulence Panic on Jan 27, 2016 23:27:04 GMT -5
When you're talking about 1997 albums with regard to the British rock landscape you cannot forget Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space. That album is on par with Urban Hymns and Ok Computer. I enjoy all four of those albums and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple others, but those four stand out with 3 of them being legit classics. BHN - best party, sunny day roadtrip album Urban Hymns - arguably the most balanced album of the four, and along with WTSMG shaped the post-britpop soft brit-rock stuff (Coldplay, Travis, etc.) Ok Computer - a precursor to the 21st century culture (along with Kid A) and to 21st century rock n roll. Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space - a heart wrenching progressive space rock masterpiece that is dense sonically and deep emotionally. Outstanding group of albums when you think about it. You missed Tellin' Stories. But I agree mainly with the rest. Personally I don't really rate OK Computer but each to their own.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 0:07:47 GMT -5
Have to agree with those saying it was bad choices which took their toll. Noel was in a bit of a rut when it came to Be Here Now but you can still put together a decent album from the songs from that era. And of course, the longer ones needed editing down. Something like this would almost certainly have enabled them to retain most of their fanbase and avoid the backlash: My Big Mouth D'You Know What I Mean? Stand By Me Stay Young Going Nowhere I Hope, I Think, I Know Don't Go Away Flashbax Be Here Now The Fame All Around The World Same for SOTSOG. Noel didn't have huge amounts of material kicking around but certainly there were 10 songs from that period that would have constituted a far superior album to the one he put out: F*ckin in the Bushes Go Let It Out Carnation Revolution Song Gas Panic Carry Us All Who Feels Love Let's All Make Believe Where Did It All Go Wrong? Roll It Over Carnation isn't an Oasis song, is it?
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jan 28, 2016 0:11:18 GMT -5
Have to agree with those saying it was bad choices which took their toll. Noel was in a bit of a rut when it came to Be Here Now but you can still put together a decent album from the songs from that era. And of course, the longer ones needed editing down. Something like this would almost certainly have enabled them to retain most of their fanbase and avoid the backlash: My Big Mouth D'You Know What I Mean? Stand By Me Stay Young Going Nowhere I Hope, I Think, I Know Don't Go Away Flashbax Be Here Now The Fame All Around The World Same for SOTSOG. Noel didn't have huge amounts of material kicking around but certainly there were 10 songs from that period that would have constituted a far superior album to the one he put out: F*ckin in the Bushes Go Let It Out Carnation Revolution Song Gas Panic Carry Us All Who Feels Love Let's All Make Believe Where Did It All Go Wrong? Roll It Over Carnation isn't an Oasis song, is it? Indeed.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 0:16:23 GMT -5
In all honesty I believe the band fundamentally changed for the complete worst once bonehead and guigs left. Tony started the ball rolling on that one but ultimately it was Noel's fault. The spark that was there between those 5 lads vanished and that was reflected in the music. Look how dark SOTSOG and HC are compared to BHN. I'm not saying if bonehead and guigs had stayed everything would have been perfect but IMHO Andy and Gem were just not right for the band (sorry to say that as I love RIDE & Hurricane #1). The band lost their edge at that point which ultimately led to everyone getting more and more fed up until 2009 happened. Liam's voice issues didn't help but to me this 1999-2000 changeover was a critical point that sowed the seeds ultimately for what happened in Paris in 2009. I agree 100% with this. For all the slating BHN got, to me the album is fine as it is. Had a couple of decent B sides replaced a couple of the duff tracks on the album, I still don't think the album would have been any better received. Britpop was over after Di's death, and for all the upbeat tracks from the BHN era (B sides included) it wouldn't have saved them. The sound of BHN suddenly belonged to a different era of excess partying, Britpop, Euro 96 and Knebworth. BHN was released 6 months too late. The unexpected changing mood at the time happened overnight, and BHN didn't reflect it. The UK were then looking for more down beat stuff, and the shelf life of guitar rock bands was suddenly on the decline. So BHN couldn't have improved Oasis popularity any further in the UK. In the US maybe, had a few other tracks been selected as singles, but I doubt it. No, Oasis biggest mistake was the turning point of SOTSOG. Noel was a shadow of his former self, losing the will to write any more upbeat tracks, and suffering the worst hangover from Britpop than anyone else at the time. But more crucially, losing key members, Creation, Owen Morris, even Brian Cannon and his iconic album sleeves and logo. The band lost its identity with that album, and never recovered.
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Post by beentherenow on Jan 28, 2016 8:11:13 GMT -5
I cannot agree with the post above which says their wasn't much material about in the SOTSOG era. This is not an attempt to start alternative SOTSOG tracklisting pt 200 but we know Noel had the below written at various stages of completion Fuckin in the bushes Go Let It Out Who Feels Love? PYMWYMI Gas Panic! WDIAGW Sunday Morning Call I Can See A Liar Roll It Over Let's All Make Believe As Long As They've Got Cigarettes in Hell One Way Road Carry Us All Full On Little By Little It's A Crime Revolution Song Force of Nature Just Getting Older The 10 or 11 best of those, twinned with the excellent production would make a truly phenomenal 10/10 classic album. The problem is they picked the wrong songs or just didn't finish them in time. As an earlier poster wrote SOTSOG should have been the great return. A new Oasis for a new millennium and they nearly got it right but there we too many mediocre songs to make it really work. They needed a 10/10 album not another 7/10 If Noel had taken maybe another 6 months to finish what they had and also not been so stupid with his decisions, Oasis' history in the early part of this century would look very different. Then in turn HC wouldn't have been rushed out because Noel would have been content, instead of trying to grasp at former glory's. BHN was also retrospectively a mistake but it needed to happen, it was inevitable. SOTSOG was totally avoidable. I love both BHN and SOTSOG though
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 9:33:56 GMT -5
I cannot agree with the post above which says their wasn't much material about in the SOTSOG era. This is not an attempt to start alternative SOTSOG tracklisting pt 200 but we know Noel had the below written at various stages of completion Fuckin in the bushes Go Let It Out Who Feels Love? PYMWYMI Gas Panic! WDIAGW Sunday Morning Call I Can See A Liar Roll It Over Let's All Make Believe As Long As They've Got Cigarettes in Hell One Way Road Carry Us All Full On Little By Little It's A Crime Revolution Song Force of Nature Just Getting Older The 10 or 11 best of those, twinned with the excellent production would make a truly phenomenal 10/10 classic album. The problem is they picked the wrong songs or just didn't finish them in time. As an earlier poster wrote SOTSOG should have been the great return. A new Oasis for a new millennium and they nearly got it right but there we too many mediocre songs to make it really work. They needed a 10/10 album not another 7/10 If Noel had taken maybe another 6 months to finish what they had and also not been so stupid with his decisions, Oasis' history in the early part of this century would look very different. Then in turn HC wouldn't have been rushed out because Noel would have been content, instead of trying to grasp at former glory's. BHN was also retrospectively a mistake but it needed to happen, it was inevitable. SOTSOG was totally avoidable. I love both BHN and SOTSOG though No one is saying there wasn't much material at that time. There was plenty, but looking at your list of songs from that period, the majority of them are dreary to say the least, stopping short of making you want to slash your wrists on listening to them. Fuckin in the Bushes and Go Let It Out are the only upbeat Oasis tracks. ICSAL and PYMWYMI being the only other 2 heavier tracks which are utter garbage. Oasis was always about celebrating the good times. That is what made the first 3 albums and B sides great. Oasis in a dark, retrospective mood is not what the band were about, and the songs from this period, as good as some of them are, are way too depressing. One or two are fine, but a whole album of them? Give me BHN any day...
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Post by beentherenow on Jan 28, 2016 10:28:11 GMT -5
What's wrong with it being a bit sombre?
The issue it got slated wasn't the fact that it was dark it was because some of the songs weren't up to scratch. Britain loved dreary rock at the time, Travis, Coldplay etc and SOTSOG should have pissed all over them. What are the Noel songs which get criticised the most on that album? PYMWYMI and ICASL. Like you say the one's where he tried to be a bit rockier.
If Noel hadn't buckled under the pressure of not releasing an album with an unbeat tempo the album would have been much the better for it.
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Post by The Escapist on Jan 28, 2016 10:43:16 GMT -5
The dark, sombre atmosphere is the best thing about SOTSOG and it should have continued for a few more albums at least.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 10:58:09 GMT -5
What's wrong with it being a bit sombre? The issue it got slated wasn't the fact that it was dark it was because some of the songs weren't up to scratch. Britain loved dreary rock at the time, Travis, Coldplay etc and SOTSOG should have pissed all over them. What are the Noel songs which get criticised the most on that album? PYMWYMI and ICASL. Like you say the one's where he tried to be a bit rockier. If Noel hadn't buckled under the pressure of not releasing an album with an unbeat tempo the album would have been much the better for it. I guess we all look for different things from Oasis. I look for feeling sky high, mad for it, ready to take the world on - which is what the first 3 albums encapsulated. Don't get me wrong, I like the occasional downbeat Noel acoustic too, but not a whole album of it.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 11:09:06 GMT -5
The dark, sombre atmosphere is the best thing about SOTSOG and it should have continued for a few more albums at least. It did....which is why Oasis MK II is such a disaster.
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Post by The Escapist on Jan 28, 2016 11:16:53 GMT -5
The dark, sombre atmosphere is the best thing about SOTSOG and it should have continued for a few more albums at least. It did....which is why Oasis MK II is such a disaster. There are few "darker" (read - slower) moments on Heathen Chemistry like Little by Little and SCYHO but generally it abandoned the genuine darkness of SOTSOG for dad-rock, "feel-good" songs. Like The Hindu Times.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jan 28, 2016 11:24:50 GMT -5
They should've put the best songs on their albums, regardless of their atmosphere. I'd rather have an album full of slow and sad, but very good songs, than an album with awful upbeat dadrock shite.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 11:37:14 GMT -5
They should've put the best songs on their albums, regardless of their atmosphere. I'd rather have an album full of slow and sad, but very good songs, than an album with awful upbeat dadrock shite. And we got neither, from 2000 onwards...
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Post by mystoryisgory on Jan 28, 2016 12:08:57 GMT -5
The problem with SOTSOG is that it isn't somber enough. The more "madferit" songs like GLIO and PYMWYMI don't sit well with darker songs like WDIAGW, SMC, and Roll It Over.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 28, 2016 12:11:03 GMT -5
Having whinging twats like us as fans.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 12:20:52 GMT -5
The problem with SOTSOG is that it isn't somber enough. The more "madferit" songs like GLIO and PYMWYMI don't sit well with darker songs like WDIAGW, SMC, and Roll It Over. It wasn't a case of not sitting well, but more a case of the `madferit' songs just not being good enough. Noel obviously didn't have it in him any more to write these kinds of tunes. BHN must have drained the last of his talent for writing brilliant upbeat numbers. Having said that, I do like Go Let it Out, but ICSAL and PYMWYMI are 2 of the worst songs he has ever written, on par with the worst songs on DOYS.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jan 28, 2016 12:52:01 GMT -5
I want to use the abbreviation "LMAO" so bad, but I don't want to come across as some 12 year old bimbo. Such struggles.
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Post by boneheadsbolero on Jan 28, 2016 13:15:47 GMT -5
I think the big mistake was the constant pilfering of chord sequences, melody lines and phrases from other people's songs. There seemed to be at least 4 or 5 Beatles phrases on every album. If Pulp or some- one tossed Stones phrases into song after song you'd think it's pretty weak. 20 years later and they're still doing it too. It's gonna wreck their legacy in the long run. Zeppelin's legacy has somehow survived ripping off idea after idea but Oasis's won't.
That and those old man track suits they wore on stage a few times in the 90's. They went straight past "dad rock" to "grandfather rock" with those.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 13:31:41 GMT -5
this is a "mistake" that isnt totally true but I think maybe carrying on after the BHN tour tbh, I think everything just imploded on that tour and the wheels came off, maybe if they parted for a while then came back in the late 2000s with a 4th album it mightve been quite good for them.
like I said though not really a mistake and I like a lot of songs post BHN but it wasnt the same.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Jan 28, 2016 15:09:10 GMT -5
I think the big mistake was the constant pilfering of chord sequences, melody lines and phrases from other people's songs. There seemed to be at least 4 or 5 Beatles phrases on every album. If Pulp or some- one tossed Stones phrases into song after song you'd think it's pretty weak. 20 years later and they're still doing it too. It's gonna wreck their legacy in the long run. Zeppelin's legacy has somehow survived ripping off idea after idea but Oasis's won't. That and those old man track suits they wore on stage a few times in the 90's. They went straight past "dad rock" to "grandfather rock" with those. Do you mean the likes of Liam's Umbro top? I always thought Oasis looked far cooler in this kind of gear, than what they wore post 2000.
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Post by Headmaster on Jan 28, 2016 16:18:34 GMT -5
The problem with SOTSOG is that it isn't somber enough. The more "madferit" songs like GLIO and PYMWYMI don't sit well with darker songs like WDIAGW, SMC, and Roll It Over. But those madferit songs on SOTGOS songs has a darker tone to them too, Go Let it Out is dark compared to something like Roll With It or Stay Young, the whole album didn't need to be too dark or too depressive.
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Post by mystoryisgory on Jan 28, 2016 17:38:04 GMT -5
The problem with SOTSOG is that it isn't somber enough. The more "madferit" songs like GLIO and PYMWYMI don't sit well with darker songs like WDIAGW, SMC, and Roll It Over. But those madferit songs on SOTGOS songs has a darker tone to them too, Go Let it Out is dark compared to something like Roll With It or Stay Young, the whole album didn't need to be too dark or too depressive. Definitely. The production gave them a darker tone. Unfortunately songs like Who Feels Love and Go Let It Out aren't that different lyrically from their 90's predecessors.
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mattyo
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 271
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Post by mattyo on Jan 28, 2016 18:58:52 GMT -5
They should have gone away at the end of 1996. Tried to get to the end of the tour (Have no idea and have never seen the projected Morning Glory Tour Dates that were cancelled). They should have finished up and hibernated.
They would and should have had two full years off after the tour and gone into the studio in early 1999 to start work on the final part of the Oasis trilogy 'Standing on the Shoulder of Giants'. In May 1999, The band release and promote the first single in 3 years 'Go Let It Out' hugely playing on late night shows in the US. The band would do a full North American tour of arenas including Madison Square Garden before the albums release like Canada in 2008.
'STANDING ON THE SHOULDER OF GIANTS' 1999
1-Fucking in the Bushes 2-Go Let It Out 3-Who Feels Love? 4-Angel Child (Full Studio Recording) 5-Fade In/Out (Less Rock/More Psychedelic/Bongos and shit) 6-Lock All The Doors (A bit of everything we've heard, with Liam on Vox) 7-Gas Panic! 8-Let's All Make Believe 9-D'you Know What I Mean? (Stripped, less layers, more like Gas Panic) 10-Stand By Me (Stripped, less layers, more acoustic vibes)
Critical acclaim, the tour ends in August 2000 with the original 4 of Noel, Liam, Bonehead and Guigs blowing 300,000 people away at Hyde Park and the band split up. One of the great trilogies of Guitar Music and looked back on as one of the greatest bands of all time. Thats how it should have happened.
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Post by Flatulence Panic on Jan 28, 2016 19:12:18 GMT -5
They should have gone away at the end of 1996. Tried to get to the end of the tour (Have no idea and have never seen the projected Morning Glory Tour Dates that were cancelled). They should have finished up and hibernated. They would and should have had two full years off after the tour and gone into the studio in early 1999 to start work on the final part of the Oasis trilogy 'Standing on the Shoulder of Giants'. In May 1999, The band release and promote the first single in 3 years 'Go Let It Out' hugely playing on late night shows in the US. The band would do a full North American tour of arenas including Madison Square Garden before the albums release like Canada in 2008. 'STANDING ON THE SHOULDER OF GIANTS' 1999 1-Fucking in the Bushes 2-Go Let It Out 3-Who Feels Love? 4-Angel Child (Full Studio Recording) 5-Fade In/Out (Less Rock/More Psychedelic/Bongos and shit) 6-Lock All The Doors (A bit of everything we've heard, with Liam on Vox) 7-Gas Panic! 8-Let's All Make Believe 9-D'you Know What I Mean? (Stripped, less layers, more like Gas Panic) 10-Stand By Me (Stripped, less layers, more acoustic vibes) Critical acclaim, the tour ends in August 2000 at Hyde Park and the band split up. One of the great trilogies of Guitar Music and looked back on as one of the greatest bands of all time. Maybe but fuck me sorry that is a very weird tracklisting! Let's all make believe after Gas Panic... Really!!??
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mattyo
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 271
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Post by mattyo on Jan 28, 2016 19:14:21 GMT -5
They should have gone away at the end of 1996. Tried to get to the end of the tour (Have no idea and have never seen the projected Morning Glory Tour Dates that were cancelled). They should have finished up and hibernated. They would and should have had two full years off after the tour and gone into the studio in early 1999 to start work on the final part of the Oasis trilogy 'Standing on the Shoulder of Giants'. In May 1999, The band release and promote the first single in 3 years 'Go Let It Out' hugely playing on late night shows in the US. The band would do a full North American tour of arenas including Madison Square Garden before the albums release like Canada in 2008. 'STANDING ON THE SHOULDER OF GIANTS' 1999 1-Fucking in the Bushes 2-Go Let It Out 3-Who Feels Love? 4-Angel Child (Full Studio Recording) 5-Fade In/Out (Less Rock/More Psychedelic/Bongos and shit) 6-Lock All The Doors (A bit of everything we've heard, with Liam on Vox) 7-Gas Panic! 8-Let's All Make Believe 9-D'you Know What I Mean? (Stripped, less layers, more like Gas Panic) 10-Stand By Me (Stripped, less layers, more acoustic vibes) Critical acclaim, the tour ends in August 2000 at Hyde Park and the band split up. One of the great trilogies of Guitar Music and looked back on as one of the greatest bands of all time. Maybe but fuck me sorry that is a very weird tracklisting! Let's all make believe after Gas Panic... Really!!?? Rustled up after around 5 minutes I would changed a few things around maybe. Maybe put LATD at 8?
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