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Post by Lennon2217 on Mar 31, 2015 22:39:29 GMT -5
Death in Vegas working with them was Liam's idea at that time by the way, but Noel said no to them, and then Noel said that he didn't experimented more with Oasis because of Liam. Well to be fair Noel said the songs Oasis brought to the table werent very good and didn't have enough to make a quality LP. Who knows if that is totally true or not. I hope it is. I really wanted that project to work. Badly.
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Post by themanwithnoname on Apr 1, 2015 3:30:07 GMT -5
Have to agree with those saying it was bad choices which took their toll.
Noel was in a bit of a rut when it came to Be Here Now but you can still put together a decent album from the songs from that era. And of course, the longer ones needed editing down.
Something like this would almost certainly have enabled them to retain most of their fanbase and avoid the backlash:
My Big Mouth D'You Know What I Mean? Stand By Me Stay Young Going Nowhere I Hope, I Think, I Know Don't Go Away Flashbax Be Here Now The Fame All Around The World
Same for SOTSOG. Noel didn't have huge amounts of material kicking around but certainly there were 10 songs from that period that would have constituted a far superior album to the one he put out:
F*ckin in the Bushes Go Let It Out Carnation Revolution Song Gas Panic Carry Us All Who Feels Love Let's All Make Believe Where Did It All Go Wrong? Roll It Over
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Post by Lennon2217 on Apr 1, 2015 6:48:45 GMT -5
The alternative rock revolution in America was just about over at the end of 1996. It lasted between 1991 and 1996. Slowly. It surely hip hop, rap metal, boy bands and pop princesses would take over the radio and TV for almost 5-7 years. I feel like the UK experienced this same shift in trends starting in mid to late 1997. It impacted a lot of bands in America. Not just Oasis. Anyone who played a guitar was now at odds with a cultural shift.
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Post by beentherenow on Apr 1, 2015 7:28:16 GMT -5
When you're talking about 1997 albums with regard to the British rock landscape you cannot forget Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space. That album is on par with Urban Hymns and Ok Computer. I enjoy all four of those albums and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple others, but those four stand out with 3 of them being legit classics. BHN - best party, sunny day roadtrip album Urban Hymns - arguably the most balanced album of the four, and along with WTSMG shaped the post-britpop soft brit-rock stuff (Coldplay, Travis, etc.) Ok Computer - a precursor to the 21st century culture (along with Kid A) and to 21st century rock n roll. Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space - a heart wrenching progressive space rock masterpiece that is dense sonically and deep emotionally. Outstanding group of albums when you think about it. I fucking love BHN but out of those 4 it is undoubtedly in last place, Urban Hymns on top of being a fucking stonking album, also stole Oasis' 'I'll buy 2 albums a year' crowd. Every person I know owns that album, just like Morning Glory and The Man Who etc. Be Here Now didn't appeal to them people. Any other year BHN would be a contender for album of the year (1998 for example was really poor in comparison) but 1997 was a freakily great year for music and Oasis just weren't up to it
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Post by Lennon2217 on Apr 1, 2015 7:31:48 GMT -5
Urban Hymns was what BHN should have been, I think they are cousin albums for some reason, thay have the same sound and style. But UH is more varied, there are rockers, acoustic ballads, soft moments, psychedelic stuffs, moods changing at every song, UH learned with WTSMG. BHN on the other hand, was everything turned up to 11, there isn't an acoustic ballad, all has eletric guitars on that album, BHN can give listening fatigue because of this. Acoustic ballad? Don't Go Away?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 7:42:58 GMT -5
Urban Hymns was what BHN should have been, I think they are cousin albums for some reason, thay have the same sound and style. But UH is more varied, there are rockers, acoustic ballads, soft moments, psychedelic stuffs, moods changing at every song, UH learned with WTSMG. BHN on the other hand, was everything turned up to 11, there isn't an acoustic ballad, all has eletric guitars on that album, BHN can give listening fatigue because of this. Acoustic ballad? Don't Go Away? The song itself is a great acoustic ballad. Just with a couple of layers of electric guitar over the top.
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Post by Cast on Apr 1, 2015 9:13:53 GMT -5
You have to reconsider that summer 97. There were two albums that change a lot of things. That year, The Verve released Urban Hymns and Radiohead released OK Computer (and kill the Britpop). Not to mention their fellow Britpoppers Blur were trying new things. Oasis got cowardly, and what's worse, they got even more unambitious as the years went by. I knew I was a forgetting an album in my previous post. Blur's self-titled was a step forward for them after the spotty and bloated The Great Escape. The Pavement influence on Coxon is one of the better things that happened to the band in their later career. Blur (album) is kinda a harsher british take on Wowee Zowee. Both band's had great guitar players and a 90 stoner's zaniness to them, I'm glad Blur got to show it off on that album. The influence was a great fit and look on Blur. I prefer 13 to Blur but it is a very good album and it was a great step stone of a record. They never were the same band after it got released.
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Post by Headmaster on Apr 1, 2015 10:02:41 GMT -5
Urban Hymns was what BHN should have been, I think they are cousin albums for some reason, thay have the same sound and style. But UH is more varied, there are rockers, acoustic ballads, soft moments, psychedelic stuffs, moods changing at every song, UH learned with WTSMG. BHN on the other hand, was everything turned up to 11, there isn't an acoustic ballad, all has eletric guitars on that album, BHN can give listening fatigue because of this. Acoustic ballad? Don't Go Away? DGA also has eletric guitars and some studio effects, it's not totally acoustic, but even then, only one on the album? There is little variation on BHN, all too long, all too loud, guitar solos everywhere, overproduction, hardcore fans are sure to like it, but not casuals.
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Post by Just Call Me The Roller on Apr 1, 2015 16:06:30 GMT -5
In fact, I'm not sure BHN was even the best britpop album of 1997. I humbly prefer Marchin' Already.
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Post by PollyWantsACracker on Apr 1, 2015 16:53:55 GMT -5
I think their biggest mistake is Standing Of The Shoulder Of Giants' tracklist. With Let's All Make Believe, Full On (Liam version) it is way better. I thought its tracklisting was fine too be honest.
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Post by PollyWantsACracker on Apr 1, 2015 16:57:00 GMT -5
Heathen Chemistry also could have been a lot better. I feel that Noel wussed out on that one after hearing the demos of The Hindu Times and Stop Crying Your Heart Out. There were also a lot of quality control issues- allowing some songs on the album that had no business being there, such as Better Man and A Quick Peep. Also, Probably All In The Mind had no business being on that album!
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Post by ethanwaoasis on Apr 1, 2015 20:47:26 GMT -5
I blame Noel. His songwriting and music composition went downhill. I also blame the switch from Creation (because they went into Bankruptcy), the loss of Brian Cannon and Owen Morris, and the creation of their own label to have total control as their downfall as well.
Noel is a control freak and it ultimately killed them. They were much better when Creation told them what to do and how they should sound.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 25, 2016 13:48:57 GMT -5
Throwing Away B-sides: Too many great songs... Too short a period of time... The good times will never end... Blah, blah, blah... we all know the story.
Poor Tracklist Choices: Let's just say there's been a few, err, head scratchers. I actually think it's not quite the apocalypse some people make it out to be, but yeah. Head scratchers.
Needlessly Retaining Strong Songs For Later Albums: This is a particularly annoying one with the reasons why being overplayed in my opinion. Completely avoidable shooting yourself in the foot stuff. If the songs are there, use them.
The Songwriting Democracy: I'm all for band members chipping in but I can't help but feel there was a 'everyone gets at least one songwriting credit per album' rule, even if it wasn't something which was talked about. Unfortunately when a certain Mr Noel Gallagher is in your band that politeness shouldn't have really existed. Half of Liam, Andy & Gem's album material should have been b-sides or remained unreleased.
Noel's Decision To Stop Writing 'Rock Songs': Perhaps it was due to the backlash of Be Here Now and some of SOTSOG heavier moments but Noel only wrote and released one out and out rock song between 2000 and 2005. It wasn't until September 2008 you finally heard another in The Shock Of The Lightning. Why Noel? Why did you do this!?
Noel's Decision To Stop Writing Riff Driven Songs: A more personal preference maybe, but Noel stopped writing memorable riffs far too quickly for my liking. Once the band bust out of The Boardwalk Noel wrote things without tirelessly jamming them with the rest of the band. This left less chance to improvise and so the simple chord progressions simply rose to the surface. Nothing wrong with this, but it makes for less interesting compositions IMO.
Mistake After Mistake - Be Here Now/SOTSOG/Heathen Chemistry: Ultimately I think this is what crippled the bands standing with the music community. Eh. Can't be bothered with the details but you guys know already - Worst one yet/Worst one yet/Worst one yet.
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Post by mystoryisgory on Jan 25, 2016 14:21:36 GMT -5
Why are there only 3 votes for Heathen Chemistry? ![B-|](//storage.proboards.com/1258801/images/uvZlMKN_bBEZSPRDGWlO.gif)
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jan 25, 2016 14:22:46 GMT -5
^ You hit the nail on the head there! It was a combination of factors, not just Be Here Now, or this, or that, but a lot of them combined.
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Post by andrewmattcoles on Jan 25, 2016 14:34:27 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Frankly I think we all make too much of "the end of oasis and mistakes!!" Personally I still get enough satisfaction from the first 3 albums and half as many besides and what have you. Throwing in a few from the latter years and then NGHFB. Nothing has come close since and nothing will stay with me forever other than oasis/NG...I don't really care if an album could have been better if X or Y or Z had been on there. A song is a song and if I have it I can play it in any which order I like
Oasis' mistake? There isn't one. It is what it is and that's a life long soundtrack for me
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Post by andrewmattcoles on Jan 25, 2016 14:37:20 GMT -5
Hmmmm. Frankly I think we all make too much of "the end of oasis and mistakes!!" Personally I still get enough satisfaction from the first 3 albums and half as many besides and what have you. Throwing in a few from the latter years and then NGHFB. Nothing has come close since and nothing will stay with me forever other than oasis/NG...I don't really care if an album could have been better if X or Y or Z had been on there. A song is a song and if I have it I can play it in any which order I like Oasis' mistake? There isn't one. It is what it is and that's a life long soundtrack for me To cast a vote I have gone with Tony....he contributed to the oasis sound and that's worth being proud of
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Post by mimmihopps on Jan 25, 2016 14:40:35 GMT -5
Being a band with your elder/younger brother (joke, but not quite).
I wouldn't want to work in a same company on same section with my sister. Just sayin.
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Post by The Escapist on Jan 25, 2016 14:42:50 GMT -5
The SOTSOG track list should have more votes. That was a chance to make Oasis relevant again, and show they weren't a one trick pony. If they had put more time and effort into it, and chosen the right songs, it could have been a new beginning for a more creative Oasis. Then Noel wouldn't have been under pressure to recreate former glory - which lead to him delegating the songwriting - and all of the numerous post-2000 errors could potentially have been avoided. It was arguably the crucial point of be bands career and they needed to nail it - and as good as SOTSOG is, it isn't good enough.
The tracklisting problem certainly looms large though, there is no good reason why someone who owns every Oasis album still doesn't have access to:
- Listen Up - Half the World Away - Whatever
- Acquiesce - The Masterplan - Talk Tonight - Rockin' Chair - Headshrinker
- Stay Young - Going Nowhere
- Let's All Make Believe - Full On - One Way Road
- Idler's Dream
- The Boy With the Blues
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Post by Flatulence Panic on Jan 25, 2016 16:01:17 GMT -5
Throwing P L U M S!
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Post by unionpat on Jan 25, 2016 16:24:57 GMT -5
Had the Be Here Now singles in the US been BHN, DGA, and AATW (a single edit), the album would have been much better received, more radio friendly, and Oasis would have remained more relevant stateside. Instead, it lead the singles with DYKWIM, an overly long dirge compared to the great singles from the two prior albums (and of course the aforementioned squandering of all those great tracks relegated to B-sides).
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Post by World71R on Jan 25, 2016 23:08:13 GMT -5
Had the Be Here Now singles in the US been BHN, DGA, and AATW (a single edit), the album would have been much better received, more radio friendly, and Oasis would have remained more relevant stateside. Instead, it lead the singles with DYKWIM, an overly long dirge compared to the great singles from the two prior albums (and of course the aforementioned squandering of all those great tracks relegated to B-sides). Two things: 1. I'm not so sure about BHN being the lead single. I think The Girl in the Dirty Shirt, with a radio edit, would've been a great lead single, followed by DGA, then BHN or IHITIK, SBM (single edit), and then AATW released as a promo single to wrap up the album cycle. That would've made for a better cycle than what they ended up doing, imo, even though DYKWIM was a gargantuan lead single, which leads me to point #2.... 2. Even though it's almost eight minutes long, DYKWIM is FAAAARRR from a dirge. That's an insult to such an epic song.
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Post by idleroses on Jan 26, 2016 0:33:08 GMT -5
Heathen Chemistry also could have been a lot better. I feel that Noel wussed out on that one after hearing the demos of The Hindu Times and Stop Crying Your Heart Out. There were also a lot of quality control issues- allowing some songs on the album that had no business being there, such as Better Man and A Quick Peep. Also, Probably All In The Mind had no business being on that album! People think I'm mad but I really dig that song.
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Post by freddy838 on Jan 26, 2016 9:03:44 GMT -5
For all their faults in the 00s, I'd say you could still make a best of that's as good as most other bands from that decade and with more variety to it than a 90s best of. The depth of songs though wasn't as deep which I guess makes Noel's pretty ordinary record at choosing track lists stand out more than before. I think a huge mistake was not doing anything about preserving Liam's voice earlier, but then it would take someone with serious balls to challenge Noel when it comes to picking songs and challenge Liam about singing differently.
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Post by Flatulence Panic on Jan 27, 2016 23:02:53 GMT -5
In all honesty I believe the band fundamentally changed for the complete worst once bonehead and guigs left.
Tony started the ball rolling on that one but ultimately it was Noel's fault.
The spark that was there between those 5 lads vanished and that was reflected in the music.
Look how dark SOTSOG and HC are compared to BHN.
I'm not saying if bonehead and guigs had stayed everything would have been perfect but IMHO Andy and Gem were just not right for the band (sorry to say that as I love RIDE & Hurricane #1).
The band lost their edge at that point which ultimately led to everyone getting more and more fed up until 2009 happened.
Liam's voice issues didn't help but to me this 1999-2000 changeover was a critical point that sowed the seeds ultimately for what happened in Paris in 2009.
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