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Post by jakob61907 on Dec 24, 2014 12:45:05 GMT -5
It's rather silly to compare the two as they needed each other in The Beatles. They pushed each other to become the greatest songwriting partnership in the history of popular music. They were in such heavy competition with each other to up one another it created magical music. During The Beatles they were equals and needed each other. Post Beatles Harrison had the best solo album with John having the best body of work. So many memorable songs. I'd probably prefer Lennon because he was far more interesting than Paul. Not a better musician but had that attitude, passion and emotion in his music that was just great. Long live The Beatles. Merry Christmas. Peace.
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Post by spaneli on Dec 24, 2014 15:51:11 GMT -5
Shows how much Lennon has been deified as a songwriter. I think the better songwriter is McCartney. Lennon is good, but his solo career was hit or miss with really only a few standout tracks. Post- 66 McCartney was the driving force behind the Beatles. Post-66 I think Lennon was actually the third best songwriter in the Beatles behind Harrison and McCartney. Plus, I believe McCartney's peak songs, so his very best, are better than Lennon's very best. It's become a cool and trendy to vote for Lennon because of his deified image rather than the on his own merits. Just as it's become cool and trendy to downplay McCartney, mainly because he's been around longer and has made himself into a living brand and I believe his commercialism comes off as hollow to this new hipster generation. However, I believe as a pure songwriter, McCartney over Lennon. I don't know man, Lennon's songwriting jumped up several levels post 66. Became extremely mature for the most part and sophisticated. Different than his puppy dog love songs of pre 66. For example.............. - Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds - All You Need Is Love - I Am The Walrus - Revolution - Dear Prudence - Happiness Is A Warm Gun - Sexy Sadie - Across The Universe - Don't Let Me Down - The Ballad of John and Yoko - Come Together I don't think Harrison can hang with that song writing output during this era either. He had a handful of great songs but not the numbers. Lennon next spun his hot songwriting into the start of a budding solo career with....... - Give Peace A Chance - Cold Turkey - Instant Karma - Mother - Working Class Hero - Love - Look At Me - God - Imagine - Jealous Guy - Gimme Some Truth - Oh Yoko! All written between 1968 and 1971. When looking at John's solo career overall, he only really made music for 5 years out of the 10 he lived post Beatles. In that decade he gave the world...... - Give Peace A Chance - Instant Karma - Working Class Hero - Imagine - Jealous Guy - Mind Games - Whatever Gets You Through The Night - Stand By Me (Great cover) - Woman - Nobody Told Me - I'm Losing You All big songs in the charts and still played to this very day on modern radio (if you can find it  ). It's difficult to go with the argument of look how many songs Lennon produced in the Beatles and look how many Harrison produced. The issue is that it ignores the dynamics of the Beatles. Of course, just in quantity, Lennon has more killer songs than Harrison. But that's not surprising. The Beatles were Lennon and McCartney. Only what Lennon & McCartney considered to be Harrison's greatest work made Beatles albums. Harrison NEVER had the luxury or position that Lennon had to push some of his other work on there. For Harrison it was always a battle for a song to get on a Beatles albums. Hence, why he has very few, but the few are some of, if not, the Beatles best. People forget that All things Must Passed is essentially ALL of Harrison's material in the Beatles that didn't make onto albums. And while listening to it, it's difficult at times to figure out why My Sweet Lord (which was written while he was with the Beatles) and What is Life (which he actually held back because of the deteriorating Beatles dynamic). All Things Must Pass is 30 songs that trumps most of the Beatles' solo work and I'd say about 7 or 8 of the Beatles albums. Saying Harrison was the second best songwriter post-66 is NOT that far fetched of an argument to make. I consider All Things Must Pass with Lennon's best solo album, Plastic Ono Band and fairly close to RAM and Band on the Run for McCartney. From 66-70 Harrison released over 70 songs. So, he was just as prolifc as McCartney and Lennon from 66-70. His high's were also just as high as Lennon's with While My Guitar Gently Weeps, Here Comes the Sun, I Me Mine, Something, Taxman, What is Life, My Sweet Lord. His work was also just as introspective if not more experimental, especially with his second solo album Electronic Sound being one of the first experiments of using a sythesizer as a main instrument. Just as with Lennon, he also tackled religion, love, and peace within his own songwriting. He was far more willing to experiment and take chances than either McCartney or Lennon, yet was just as able to craft a singular pop song. The separation between the two is not as significant as some would like to believe. |
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Post by Headmaster on Dec 24, 2014 16:54:24 GMT -5
During the Beatles I say that they were both equals in quality, I like them both, but I must say that John was better in his solo carerr than Paul for a few reasons.
Paul of course was the most prolific and had a long carerr than John, but John in a short space wrote many classic solo songs: mind games, woman, mother, imagine, jealous guy, instant karma, working class hero...
John also wrote two classic solo albums, plastic ono band and imagine. Paul worte great albums too, but none on par with those Lennon ones, and also he wrote pretty shit albums during the 80's.
Don't forget that John wrote Imagine, a songs as classic and popular as anything the Beatles ever did, Paul alone only came close with Live and Let Die and Band on the Run, both no as great as Imagine mind you, and No More Lonely Night simple doesn't come close.
Also Paul never wrote a song as emotionaly deep as Mother(a heartbreaking song), while John wrote something like Mother Paul was wrinting something like Coming Up.
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Post by spaneli on Dec 24, 2014 17:47:06 GMT -5
During the Beatles I say that they were both equals in quality, I like them both, but I must say that John was better in his solo carerr than Paul for a few reasons. Paul of course was the most prolific and had a long carerr than John, but John in a short space wrote many classic solo songs: mind games, woman, mother, imagine, jealous guy, instant karma, working class hero... John also wrote two classic solo albums, plastic ono band and imagine. Paul worte great albums too, but none on par with those Lennon ones, and also he wrote pretty shit albums during the 80's.Don't forget that John wrote Imagine, a songs as classic and popular as anything the Beatles ever did, Paul alone only came close with Live and Let Die and Band on the Run, both no as great as Imagine mind you, and No More Lonely Night simple doesn't come close. Also Paul never wrote a song as emotionaly deep as Mother(a heartbreaking song), while John wrote something like Mother Paul was wrinting something like Coming Up. Imagine the album has always been spotty for me. It's a more a classic because of the title track. But other than a couple other stand-out tracks it's fairly uneven. Plastic Ono Band is clearly the gem of his solo work. |
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Post by Ebby Calvin 'Nuke' LaLoosh on Dec 24, 2014 17:57:13 GMT -5
John even wrote some great songs after his death - 'Borrowed Time', 'I'm Stepping Out', etc.; so he's got that over Paul, too.
God bless.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 24, 2014 18:03:04 GMT -5
John even wrote some great songs after his death - 'Borrowed Time', 'I'm Stepping Out', etc.; so he's got that over Paul, too. God bless. John was definitely conjuring up great tunes from the grave. - I'm Losing You - Nobody Told Me - Borrowed Time - I'm Stepping Out - Free As A Bird Lennon force ghost? |
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 24, 2014 18:08:57 GMT -5
John even wrote some great songs after his death - 'Borrowed Time', 'I'm Stepping Out', etc.; so he's got that over Paul, too. God bless. John was definitely conjuring up great tunes from the grave. - I'm Losing You - Nobody Told Me - Borrowed Time - I'm Stepping Out - Free As A Bird Lennon force ghost? Add Real Love to that list as well. That tune had potential to be an absolute beauty (sadly, it was butchered by the rest of the Beatles and Jeff Lynne in the mid nineties) - you need only see the popularity of Tom Odell's cover for the John Lewis ad over here, Lennon could still write a damn good hook |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 18:09:04 GMT -5
To me anywY and it got nothing to do with the fact it was released after his death ....but my favorite John tune solo is from double fantasy. Watching the wheels .... to me it's why I prefer john ...il let the SCHOLARS debate the proficiency of both , and yes I think paul was more a talented artist ..but John wrote tunes like this and mother that pulled from his inside , paul while sometimes deep , never got that deep , or angry ...... Probably best wY I can say why I prefer John
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Post by Ebby Calvin 'Nuke' LaLoosh on Dec 24, 2014 18:12:38 GMT -5
John even wrote some great songs after his death - 'Borrowed Time', 'I'm Stepping Out', etc.; so he's got that over Paul, too. God bless. John was definitely conjuring up great tunes from the grave. - I'm Losing You - Nobody Told Me - Borrowed Time - I'm Stepping Out - Free As A Bird Lennon force ghost? Oh, definitely....Yoko is a witch, so she probably conjured John's performance via séance.  And like you said earlier in this thread, John didn't release any music for like half his remaining life after the Beatles. I don't even think he played music recreationally during his hiatus from what I've read. Somewhat interesting kinda side note: John's favorite band was the B-52's prior to his passing. I found that interesting, anyway. God bless. |
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Post by matt on Dec 24, 2014 18:32:58 GMT -5
I hear the same old arguments - 'McCartney wrote shit like Ob La Di Ob La Da'. Blah blah blah, but Lennon also contributed his fair share too, with the excruciating Bungalow Bill and Revolution #9. McCartney is unfairly lambasted for his quirky tunes and over-use of love songs, and this seems to overshadow his real achievements. Lennon was a man of big ideas, but the biggest idea of all is one from McCartney which culminated in arguably The Beatles finest album - Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. McCartney - ever the professional - was the man who got The Beatles to god like status I feel. Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - arguably the most daring, inventive and innovative album of all time - was the brainchild of Paul, who gets star-man billing on this one considering the amount of songs he wrote. Lennon's songs certainly contributed to this great piece of work - his surreal and psychedelic tunes added much imagery and colour to the album - but the heart and soul and all round concept of the album was Paul's. Paul of course did add his own hazy-drug induced reflections onto the album, but all this psychedelia on its own wouldn't have made it the unique record it is today. Sure, it would still have been great, but it wouldn't quite be the same standout record it is today. As such, it is the stand out record it is because McCartney's genius on the album lies in the fact he added familiar but unconventional influences (in rock music at least) to the album. For a start, the warmth and familiarity of the album derives from the old fashioned English influences of the music hall genre and northern English brass bands (Lonely Hearts Club Band was a psychedelic take on northern English colliery brass bands), but taking these homely and safe influences and adding a psychedelic and weird tone to them (or adding black comedic tone to them in Maxwell's Silver Hammer - another unfairly criticised tune which is excellent). And the result was brilliant and McCartney's songs encapsulated the best of all these influences and his sheer consistency on this album retains much of that quirkiness and character to the album which gives it identity, context and setting like no other Beatles album. McCartney's work on this album enabled the listener to conjure up a setting and time of a bygone era (Victorian and Edwardian in particular) in addition to it being oblique, surreal and alternative, rather than simply being oblique and surreal like most psychedelia during the time. Lennon could match and even outdo McCartney for psychedelic weirdness, but songs like I Am The Walrus can be criticised for just being surreal gobbledegook. McCartney's genius lies in the combination of these influences. On the surface of it and casually listening to the album, he is criticised for being twee and innocent but that was the essence of the music he was influenced by on this album - a culture in England that seemed to preserve jam, cricket and virginity (see The Kinks Village Green  ). Rather than merely observing this world, he turned it upside down on its head creating a weird alternative to it. It was the most remarkable idea conceived by any musician then and now, culminating in The Beatles most cohesive album and one that influenced many re-inventions by future bands, but never matching the ingenuity of McCartney's influence and overall direction of the album. I will never understand why anyone thinks Lennon is better - it seems to be a myth perpetuated by the fact he is forever young and was rebellious, and therefore daring in a way McCartney wasn't, in addition to guys like the Gallagher's deifying him to a ridiculous level. But get to the root of all they did, and McCartney's contributions are second to none. Both Lennon and McCartney had their unique traits over which one was better than the other at something - Lennon was a great autobiographical singer (which gave an intimate connection with the listener), while McCartney excelled in story telling. And for the alternative visions that the drugs enduced, McCartney was the perfect man to conjure up the overall concept that was Sgt Pepper. The Beatles wouldn't be half the band without McCartney, same goes for Lennon, but I will always stick up for McCartney in these arguments as he is severely and unfairly underrated. And I feel Sgt Pepper is a great snapshot (and that's all it is - there's loads more where that came from) of what was genius about Paul. |
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 24, 2014 19:30:17 GMT -5
To me anywY and it got nothing to do with the fact it was released after his death ....but my favorite John tune solo is from double fantasy. Watching the wheels .... to me it's why I prefer john ...il let the SCHOLARS debate the proficiency of both , and yes I think paul was more a talented artist ..but John wrote tunes like this and mother that pulled from his inside , paul while sometimes deep , never got that deep , or angry ...... Probably best wY I can say why I prefer John Agree with every word of that. McCartney wrote an incredible number of very catch, very easy listening tunes. Classics. And as well, he was obviously a very talented musician, having played drums on a number of Beatles tracks and been that good on bass to force a compliment out of Lennon. Lennon though, the man was just a genius. He did things like She's So Heavy (a Beatles tune at nearly 8 minutes, consisting of only 14 different words and a 4 minute repeating outro so heavy it pretty much gave birth to heavy metal!) and Mother and Watching The Wheels, as you said. "People say I'm lazy
Dreaming what I'm doing
Well, they give me all kinds of advice
Designed to enlighten me
When I tell 'em that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall
Don't you miss the big time boy, you're no longer on the ball?"Fucking great man. Macca, for all his melodic strength, could never do something like that. His tribute to Lennon after his death, 'Here Today' is a case in point. It didn't feel like the touching tribute to a dead friend that it was meant to be, it just came across as saccharine and forced. He didn't mean it like Lennon, he couldn't get as deep. So Spaneli can compare the output of the two together all he likes, and argue McCartney wrote more of the classic tunes that really drove the Beatles in the later years, but whilst tunes like Back In The USSR are great on the surface, you do tend to tire of them over the years. Tunes like Dear Prudence and Because never fail to blow me away. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 19:53:27 GMT -5
To me anywY and it got nothing to do with the fact it was released after his death ....but my favorite John tune solo is from double fantasy. Watching the wheels .... to me it's why I prefer john ...il let the SCHOLARS debate the proficiency of both , and yes I think paul was more a talented artist ..but John wrote tunes like this and mother that pulled from his inside , paul while sometimes deep , never got that deep , or angry ...... Probably best wY I can say why I prefer John Agree with every word of that. McCartney wrote an incredible number of very catch, very easy listening tunes. Classics. And as well, he was obviously a very talented musician, having played drums on a number of Beatles tracks and been that good on bass to force a compliment out of Lennon. Lennon though, the man was just a genius. He did things like She's So Heavy (a Beatles tune at nearly 8 minutes, consisting of only 14 different words and a 4 minute repeating outro so heavy it pretty much gave birth to heavy metal!) and Mother and Watching The Wheels, as you said. "People say I'm lazy
Dreaming what I'm doing
Well, they give me all kinds of advice
Designed to enlighten me
When I tell 'em that I'm doing fine watching shadows on the wall
Don't you miss the big time boy, you're no longer on the ball?"Fucking great man. Macca, for all his melodic strength, could never do something like that. His tribute to Lennon after his death, 'Here Today' is a case in point. It didn't feel like the touching tribute to a dead friend that it was meant to be, it just came across as saccharine and forced. He didn't mean it like Lennon, he couldn't get as deep. So Spaneli can compare the output of the two together all he likes, and argue McCartney wrote more of the classic tunes that really drove the Beatles in the later years, but whilst tunes like Back In The USSR are great on the surface, you do tend to tire of them over the years. Tunes like Dear Prudence and Because never fail to blow me away. It's really the same old tireless argument , the only issue I had with his post was about it BECOMING TRENDY to vote for John and the new hipster generation I believe he said finds macca hollow ( something like that ). It was cool and trendy to vote for John when I was 13 before he died , and macca was viewed as hollow by my generation and the generation before me which is not new or hipster ......it just always was this way fair or not ....nothing new at all |
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Dec 24, 2014 20:03:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but who the fuck are most of those people in the video ?
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 25, 2014 0:12:08 GMT -5
My avatar and name is of John Lennon, not Paul McCartney. Enough said.
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Post by oasisserbia on Dec 25, 2014 4:19:01 GMT -5
Well, best thing is that we dont have to choose. Always AND never OR. Beatles or Stones? Beatles AND Stones. John or Paul? John AND Paul.
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Post by lamboasis on Dec 25, 2014 5:20:29 GMT -5
I don't understand this hate. Paul wrote shit songs?
LOL!
He wrote Hey Jude, Yesterday, All My Loving, Let It Be, Eleanor Rigby, Helter Skelter, Get Back.
I love both. They were perfect together, end of.
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Post by spaneli on Dec 25, 2014 9:06:50 GMT -5
So Spaneli can compare the output of the two together all he likes, and argue McCartney wrote more of the classic tunes that really drove the Beatles in the later years, but whilst tunes like Back In The USSR are great on the surface, you do tend to tire of them over the years. Tunes like Dear Prudence and Because never fail to blow me away. I compare them post 66 because it's the easiest dividing line from them being a true songwriting team to more solo artists. Personally, there's never been a moment when Let it Be didn't blow me away or even a simple song like Blackbird. Just because Paul wasn't having an open therapy session on everyone of his songs, which does make Lennon grating for me sometimes, it doesn't make his songwriting or his material any less powerful or invoking. In the end, it comes down to what you want from your artist. Lennon fits the romantic image of what most people think an artist is, the tortured soul grappling with inner demons putting himself on display to see. It's a powerful image that's been around since fuck knows when, yet just as important as the image of the songwriter as the master craftsman ever tinkering toward the end, always looking to put on a show, always chasing the next masterwork, looking for the audience. In the end, it just depends on which fairy tale you like better. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 9:17:12 GMT -5
I compare them post 66 because it's the easiest dividing line from them being a true songwriting team to more solo artists. Personally, there's never been a moment when Let it Be didn't blow me away or even a simple song like Blackbird. Just because Paul wasn't having an open therapy session on everyone of his songs, which does make Lennon grating for me sometimes, it doesn't make his songwriting or his material any less powerful or invoking. In the end, it comes down to what you want from your artist. Lennon fits the romantic image of what most people think an artist is, the tortured soul grappling with inner demons putting himself on display to see. It's a powerful image that's been around since fuck knows when, yet just as important as the image of the songwriter as the master craftsman ever tinkering toward the end, always looking to put on a show, always chasing the next masterwork, looking for the audience. In the end, it just depends on which fairy tale you like better. Why is my name in there as Kalas said. : i didn't say that why put my name as a tag if my post is not being used ?? Oh and Merry xmas to all |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 9:28:33 GMT -5
Lennon2217 funny thing about your avatar that's the John vintage look I love the most , yet until last year my hair was exactly like John in his extreme long hair phase ( not intententional ) Anyway I really am curious who does it say Kalas :said whete spaneli has me in quotes when theyknowwhatimean said it it's right in his post ? I was thinking i said that but know I didn't
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Post by paperbackwriter on Dec 25, 2014 17:35:40 GMT -5
sorry to interrupt the discussion, but did they interview noel or liam for this? Cant be arsed to watch the whole thing. Btw, Mccartney, for me
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Post by spaneli on Dec 25, 2014 18:28:25 GMT -5
Lennon2217 funny thing about your avatar that's the John vintage look I love the most , yet until last year my hair was exactly like John in his extreme long hair phase ( not intententional ) Anyway I really am curious who does it say Kalas :said whete spaneli has me in quotes when theyknowwhatimean said it it's right in his post ? I was thinking i said that but know I didn't I was using my phone to respond and the quotes were off. I have edited it now. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 25, 2014 19:18:18 GMT -5
During the Beatles I say that they were both equals in quality, I like them both, but I must say that John was better in his solo carerr than Paul for a few reasons. Paul of course was the most prolific and had a long carerr than John, but John in a short space wrote many classic solo songs: mind games, woman, mother, imagine, jealous guy, instant karma, working class hero... John also wrote two classic solo albums, plastic ono band and imagine. Paul worte great albums too, but none on par with those Lennon ones, and also he wrote pretty shit albums during the 80's.Don't forget that John wrote Imagine, a songs as classic and popular as anything the Beatles ever did, Paul alone only came close with Live and Let Die and Band on the Run, both no as great as Imagine mind you, and No More Lonely Night simple doesn't come close. Also Paul never wrote a song as emotionaly deep as Mother(a heartbreaking song), while John wrote something like Mother Paul was wrinting something like Coming Up. Imagine the album has always been spotty for me. It's a more a classic because of the title track. But other than a couple other stand-out tracks it's fairly uneven. Plastic Ono Band is clearly the gem of his solo work. Personally there is a lot to enjoy on that 10 track album. Imagine Jealous Guy Gimme Some Truth Oh My Love How Do You Sleep? How? Oh Yoko! I also like how Alan White traveled back in time (A power Liam and Noel never harnessed) to be apart of this album. Merry Christmas!!!!!  |
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Dec 25, 2014 19:19:38 GMT -5
Crippled Inside is cool too
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 25, 2014 19:21:00 GMT -5
Crippled Inside is cool too It's the one thing you can't hide. |
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Post by spaneli on Dec 25, 2014 19:27:06 GMT -5
Imagine the album has always been spotty for me. It's a more a classic because of the title track. But other than a couple other stand-out tracks it's fairly uneven. Plastic Ono Band is clearly the gem of his solo work. Personally there is a lot to enjoy on that 10 track album. Imagine Jealous Guy Gimme Some Truth Oh My Love How Do You Sleep?How? Oh Yoko!I also like how Alan White traveled back in time (A power Liam and Noel never harnessed) to be apart of this album. Merry Christmas!!!!! Not a real big fan of either of those tracks, one is sanctimonious and the other is the usual Yoko garb. Probably why I find it spotty. |
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