So potentially infecting loads of other people is rock n roll?

I know the spirit of rock n roll derives from the hippies of the 60s in living a 'free and easy' life, but my god, the more I look into the rock n roll myth, the more I see it for what it really was - an excuse to be a careless selfish c*nt.

The fact you have fuds like Eric Clapton and Roger Daltrey all being total whackjobs says everything you need to know about being 'rock n roll'.

What was the epitome of 'cool' back in the day is laughed upon as boomer self-indulgence these days. And quite rightly too.

Good point and I agree with you. 

Except he hasn't spoke out against the vaccines?

He chose not to play Tramlines (not Neighbourhood, my bad) because it was being used as a trial event. That's it. 

So Matt, in this case, unless I'm missing some comment Ashcroft has made, has literally made something up and chose to get mad about it?

Not angry at all myself.  Mostly just sad if we can't get this done as human beings.  Don't agree that there's no harm done in being against proof of vaccination.  This is not a freedom issue.  No one is free to bring a gun into a concert and you can't bring a deadly virus, either.  Simple as.  And the "choice" part doesn't work when this vaccine is reliant on high numbers to work.  65%  just ain't enough as we've seen in the US when a surge gets going.  And as for consequences ... others pay because when infections are rampant, the vaccinated but vulnerable, like my elderly parents and friend on chemo, are also in greater danger.  Countries upwards of 80% are doing so much better, so we know exactly what works.  

No mystery.  The situation was different before, but now we know  We know the vaccines are pretty safe as vaccines go (not 100% but nothing is.)  And we can clearly see that they have drastically reduced the harm where there's strong uptake.  So if someone still doesn't get that at this point, yeah, that delusion is helping to keep the pandemic hanging on, which is without a single doubt a bad thing because y'know...death.  

I think Ashcroft is a good person. I generally like him.  I also think he's gone down a deluded path on this (he's not the only one of course) and that it's a very silly hill to die on. (So many other things on which one might take a stand that will help others.)  I hope he has changed his mind.  

True that we don't know the precise nuances of what Ashcroft believes.  But we know whatever he believes, he believed it strongly enough he was willing to lose money and piss off promoters. (And that he made the noises about it not being rock and roll, which again, is searching bags for weapons rock and roll?  Not especially, but it's done at every big show in the US and no one stopped playing shows over it.)  Agree also that we don't know what Liam believes.  But whatever Liam believes, he got vaccinated and started doing shows that had entry requirements, making it a non-issue for his fans, most of whom got their shots without incident and had a great time.  No big deal.  So that is the difference between them.  

If he was vaccinated it's HIGHLY likely we wouldn't be having these discussions now. It's been like this everywhere with any news story involving someone and mandates. It's disingenuous to think RPA is doing all of this for others when for a long time he's always been about himself.

100%. He's been called anti-vaxx in more global headlines than you can shake a hypodermic needle at.  If he wanted to clarify his position, it would only take a second.  

Point taken that not everyone who is against vaccine requirements is against their own vaccination.  

My argument remains, though, that public figures who refuse vaccine requirements are, at a bare minimum, further encouraging the anti-vaxx movement and leading to an end-result where as much as 30-40% of the population in some areas/countries remains unvaccinated—and that result is keeping many places from escaping this nasty bind. It’s just how it is with a virus this infectious.

I understand the fear of governments taking too heavy a hand. My sympathies lie with anti-authoritarianism. But the facts are the facts with this disease and governments will be forced to take a much heavier hand with awful lockdowns and halting people’s livelihoods once again if hospitals fill. So, you’ve gotta compromise somewhere. Me, I’d rather compromise on the short-term use of mandates--because we see clearly that they work--than on good people getting sick or impoverished. (Here in California, we also use QR codes but no real personal data is in the code so... seems the least of our worries. If one dislikes being tracked, it’s happening in far more dangerous/ invasive ways every second of the day through your phone and digital interactions. I personally fear people have been sidetracked from where the real enemies lie, but that’s another story.)

The other thing is that requiring vaccinations is not new at all. For example, well before Covid, I traveled in Africa. I was given a list of required vaccines as in, you want to come in, you bring a certificate of proof. No way around it. Made sense, I thought—how else could they know for sure you weren't spreading germs they'd worked hard to keep out? In the group I was traveling with, I don’t remember a single soul even grumbling about it. Certainly, no one saw it then as Orwellian. (I don't just mean getting the shots, I mean having to show proof upon entry and at border crossings.)  For as long as there have been vaccines, it's been a normal part of global travel and I know of no harm or oppressive use that has come of it. 

Anyway, I am glad you are vaccinated and respect that you are doing your part while maintaining your principles.  You've also made yourself much more clear than Ashcroft has!  

Just because he was against that in July doesn't mean he is against the vaccine. It's a totally separate point and you should be able to distinguish?

On the vaccine passport thing, I agree they should be in place. But the UK gov were the first country to announce they intended to introduce them, and then people from across the entertainement/hospitality industry and the political spectrum kicked off. The Labour leader called them 'un-British'.

The government bottled it. But it's a different story.

to follow on from this... last night I went to watch a game of football, qr code required for entry, when asked if I had mine of course I said no, rightly I was refused entry, thems the rules, no problem for me I could still watch from outside the perimeter of the stade, so that's what I did, 10 minutes after kick off a woman I know from one of the club's asked why I was standing where I was, told her the reason as she told me to wait 5 minutes, she went away came back and said there's no problem you can go on in and watch,so I did, said hello to a few people as I walked across to who I knew was the club president, told him the same tale and asked why they allowed me entry without the qr code, he pulled out his phone fiddled for a bit then handed it to me, he'd brought up the rules for referees from the department's football association, games are allowed to take place as long as no more than 8 players from each team fail to provide proof of vaccination, 2 teams= 28 players, only 12 need to be vaccinated, 28 fucking people running around in close contact for 90 minutes,more than half unvaccinated, but I can't sit outside the bar in my village and drink a cup of coffee without a qr code...utter fucking nonsense

The whole thing is nonsense, everywhere. But people like to insist certain countries get it right and certain countries get it wrong.

Look at Australia. Hailed for their lockdown approach last year. Yet you've had most cities only just now starting to come out of lockdown for a handful of cases.

All COVID has done is make those who are obsessed with being do-gooders even more so, and those obsessed with being dicks even more so too.

Go get vaccinated. That's my thing. People should go and do it and if you work in something like healthcare then you should be made to do it. It's not nice, but you have the choice to go into that line of work so have to accept the stuff that comes with it.

But simultaneously we can't go and pin people down and force them to have it.

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