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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 29, 2021 17:39:32 GMT -5
They don’t call him “Mad” Richard for nothing……..
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 1, 2021 12:32:52 GMT -5
I feel bad for Richard I really do. Losing the royalties to Bittersweet Symphony for over 25 years is just cruel. Lost out on millions. It def impacted his mind. Whatever money he can make money wise go for it. You’ve been proper fucked by Alan, Mick and Keef.
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 1, 2021 17:49:25 GMT -5
I feel bad for Richard I really do. Losing the royalties to Bittersweet Symphony for over 25 years is just cruel. Lost out on millions. It def impacted his mind. Whatever money he can make money wise go for it. You’ve been proper fucked by Alan, Mick and Keef. It's easy to laugh at Richard, but that was a ridiculous decision that would probably have made me go mental with a pen. |
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Post by matt on Oct 3, 2021 7:09:40 GMT -5
I feel bad for Richard I really do. Losing the royalties to Bittersweet Symphony for over 25 years is just cruel. Lost out on millions. It def impacted his mind. Whatever money he can make money wise go for it. You’ve been proper fucked by Alan, Mick and Keef. Yep, fully agree, absolutely shameful. One of the reasons I couldn't care less about The Rolling Stones. All posers and their career is littered with them being a money making leech of a business. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 3, 2021 8:13:52 GMT -5
I feel bad for Richard I really do. Losing the royalties to Bittersweet Symphony for over 25 years is just cruel. Lost out on millions. It def impacted his mind. Whatever money he can make money wise go for it. You’ve been proper fucked by Alan, Mick and Keef. Yep, fully agree, absolutely shameful. One of the reasons I couldn't care less about The Rolling Stones. All posers and their career is littered with them being a money making leech of a business. And lets be honest, the stones ripped off and exploited many black artists for their tunes and got away with it because it was the early days of rock n roll and the record business. They are hypocrites. Imagine thinking you should accept the royalties from Bittersweet like you actually wrote it. That sample they used with permission is too obscure and plus its an orchestra cover of the stones song. I can see Alan taking the money, he was evil but Mick and Keith should have just given it to Richard. |
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Post by tiger40 on Oct 3, 2021 13:33:14 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest Stones fan, however I do like some of their 60s and 70s stuff but that's it.
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Post by matt on Oct 3, 2021 17:40:04 GMT -5
Yep, fully agree, absolutely shameful. One of the reasons I couldn't care less about The Rolling Stones. All posers and their career is littered with them being a money making leech of a business. And lets be honest, the stones ripped off and exploited many black artists for their tunes and got away with it because it was the early days of rock n roll and the record business. They are hypocrites. Imagine thinking you should accept the royalties from Bittersweet like you actually wrote it. That sample they used with permission is too obscure and plus its an orchestra cover of the stones song. I can see Alan taking the money, he was evil but Mick and Keith should have just given it to Richard. Yeah, hit the nail on the head there. A bunch of fakes in their music and business dealings. How they are ever put in a debate with The Beatles I have no idea. I assume its some middle class conspiracy to try and beat those 'pesky northerners' or something akin to that. |
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Post by Headmaster on Oct 3, 2021 18:00:56 GMT -5
You guys know that it wasn't the Rolling Stones who sued RA right? It was Allen Klain who sued The Verve only because he owned the copyrights to an orchestra version of The Last Time. Actually both Mick and Keith had a hand helping giving him sole songwriting credits for the song. In the words of Richard himself: As of last month, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards signed over all their publishing for "Bitter Sweet Symphony", which was a truly kind and magnanimous thing for them to do. I never had a personal beef with the Stones. They've always been the greatest rock and roll band in the world. It's been a fantastic development. It's life-affirming in a way.
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Post by Headmaster on Oct 3, 2021 18:10:13 GMT -5
Yep, fully agree, absolutely shameful. One of the reasons I couldn't care less about The Rolling Stones. All posers and their career is littered with them being a money making leech of a business. And lets be honest, the stones ripped off and exploited many black artists for their tunes and got away with it because it was the early days of rock n roll and the record business. They are hypocrites. Imagine thinking you should accept the royalties from Bittersweet like you actually wrote it. That sample they used with permission is too obscure and plus its an orchestra cover of the stones song. I can see Alan taking the money, he was evil but Mick and Keith should have just given it to Richard. Not only The Stones, many bands from that period ripped off many artists from the past and got away with it. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Oct 3, 2021 20:12:16 GMT -5
You guys know that it wasn't the Rolling Stones who sued RA right? It was Allen Klain who sued The Verve only because he owned the copyrights to an orchestra version of The Last Time. Actually both Mick and Keith had a hand helping giving him sole songwriting credits for the song.
Ashcroft was super unlucky that it was Klein who held the rights, as he was such a cutthroat lawyer and also was strongly against sampling. There's no way he was going to let that money get away, but he did it in the most egregious way possible. The Stones (who stole the refrain from The Staples Singers to begin with) did benefit financially from it for a long time, and didn't question it, so I wouldn't overdo the credit but they made it right in 2019, so at least there's that. The big lesson to anyone with a band out there is that intellectual property is a b**ch. If you don't know what you're doing, and you're not sure if someone holds rights, hire an experienced lawyer. Musicians have been stealing from one another for centuries, long before there was electric music, but now it's a minefield. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 3, 2021 21:01:12 GMT -5
You guys know that it wasn't the Rolling Stones who sued RA right? It was Allen Klain who sued The Verve only because he owned the copyrights to an orchestra version of The Last Time. Actually both Mick and Keith had a hand helping giving him sole songwriting credits for the song. In the words of Richard himself: As of last month, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards signed over all their publishing for "Bitter Sweet Symphony", which was a truly kind and magnanimous thing for them to do. I never had a personal beef with the Stones. They've always been the greatest rock and roll band in the world. It's been a fantastic development. It's life-affirming in a way.
I’m well aware of all of that but Mick and Keith went along with it. They didn’t have to or they could have at least declined or given their shares to Richard. They. Did. Nothing. Oh, they did do something. They cashed those royalty checks that Ashcroft should have received for 20+ years. How nice of them to give it back to Richard only once all the CD, downloads and streams were sucked up. Damage was already done. I remember back in 2001, people kept asking Tom Petty if he was gonna due the strokes for ripping off “American Girl” into “Last Nite”. He said hell no!!!! That is just rock n roll. Artists being inspired and borrowing from others. He said he’d be a hypocrite for suing Julian. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 3, 2021 21:03:01 GMT -5
You guys know that it wasn't the Rolling Stones who sued RA right? It was Allen Klain who sued The Verve only because he owned the copyrights to an orchestra version of The Last Time. Actually both Mick and Keith had a hand helping giving him sole songwriting credits for the song.
Ashcroft was super unlucky that it was Klein who held the rights, as he was such a cutthroat lawyer and also was strongly against sampling. There's no way he was going to let that money get away, but he did it in the most egregious way possible. The Stones (who stole the refrain from The Staples Singers to begin with) did benefit financially from it for a long time, and didn't question it, so I wouldn't overdo the credit but they made it right in 2019, so at least there's that. The big lesson to anyone with a band out there is that intellectual property is a b**ch. If you don't know what you're doing, and you're not sure if someone holds rights, hire an experienced lawyer. Musicians have been stealing from one another for centuries, long before there was electric music, but now it's a minefield. The irony is the verve did get permission to sample that orchestral track. I believe it was like 30 seconds approval but they used something like 40 seconds. When the song blew up globally it was only then that Klein came knocking. It was the “Stones” biggest hit in 2 decades!!! Ha! |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Oct 3, 2021 21:43:01 GMT -5
I’m well aware of all of that but Mick and Keith went along with it. They didn’t have to or they could have at least declined or given their shares to Richard. They. Did. Nothing. Oh, they did do something. They cashed those royalty checks that Ashcroft should have received for 20+ years. How nice of them to give it back to Richard only once all the CD, downloads and streams were sucked up. Damage was already done. I remember back in 2001, people kept asking Tom Petty if he was gonna due the strokes for ripping off “American Girl” into “Last Nite”. He said hell no!!!! That is just rock n roll. Artists being inspired and borrowing from others. He said he’d be a hypocrite for suing Julian. Yup. While I believe the Stones (or at least Keith Richards) have said they just let the lawyers handle it, which probably has quite a bit of truth to it, they definitely knew about it and they happily took it to the bank and didn't let it worry them. Even though Petty was pretty cool about these things, even he let his lawyers go after Sam Smith for stealing "Won't Back Down" It was a pretty standard deal though, a small percentage of the royalties and song credit, nothing like what happened to Ashcroft where he was wholly stripped of everything on a seminal song. Klein was a complete savage. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Oct 3, 2021 21:52:22 GMT -5
Ashcroft was super unlucky that it was Klein who held the rights, as he was such a cutthroat lawyer and also was strongly against sampling. There's no way he was going to let that money get away, but he did it in the most egregious way possible. The Stones (who stole the refrain from The Staples Singers to begin with) did benefit financially from it for a long time, and didn't question it, so I wouldn't overdo the credit but they made it right in 2019, so at least there's that. The big lesson to anyone with a band out there is that intellectual property is a b**ch. If you don't know what you're doing, and you're not sure if someone holds rights, hire an experienced lawyer. Musicians have been stealing from one another for centuries, long before there was electric music, but now it's a minefield. The irony is the verve did get permission to sample that orchestral track. I believe it was like 30 seconds approval but they used something like 40 seconds. When the song blew up globally it was only then that Klein came knocking. It was the “Stones” biggest hit in 2 decades!!! Ha! They made two "errors." One was going over the approved sample time. The other was not realizing that, even though they had a license from Decca to sample the orchestral version of the song, they ALSO had to get a license from Klein's record company which owned the original. Not sure if they were getting any legal advice at the time, but if they were, they could have sued for legal malpractice. Of course, if they'd gone to Klein in the first place, he probably would have turned them down (or offered them an outrageous contract) and then maybe the song would never have gotten out at all, so in that sense, it might have worked out for the better. |
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Post by Headmaster on Oct 3, 2021 22:57:30 GMT -5
You guys know that it wasn't the Rolling Stones who sued RA right? It was Allen Klain who sued The Verve only because he owned the copyrights to an orchestra version of The Last Time. Actually both Mick and Keith had a hand helping giving him sole songwriting credits for the song. In the words of Richard himself: As of last month, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards signed over all their publishing for "Bitter Sweet Symphony", which was a truly kind and magnanimous thing for them to do. I never had a personal beef with the Stones. They've always been the greatest rock and roll band in the world. It's been a fantastic development. It's life-affirming in a way.
I’m well aware of all of that but Mick and Keith went along with it. They didn’t have to or they could have at least declined or given their shares to Richard. They. Did. Nothing. Oh, they did do something. They cashed those royalty checks that Ashcroft should have received for 20+ years. How nice of them to give it back to Richard only once all the CD, downloads and streams were sucked up. Damage was already done. Both Mick and Keith didn't know much what to do, they let their lawyers to handle the situation, yes sadly they cashed on it but they didn't need the money of course, I think they didn't want to clash with Allen Klain again, it's a grey area, even Richard knew he couldn't blame Mick and Keith for that, a long strugle yes, but in 2019 justice finally prevailed. |
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Post by mimmihopps on Oct 4, 2021 3:20:33 GMT -5
I've pre-ordered his acoustic album and am looking forward to it.
Besides that, I'm not into him like I used to as I disagree what he's been up to Covid-19.
PS: He was really kind when I met him by the way.
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Post by tiger40 on Oct 4, 2021 13:35:53 GMT -5
I've always loved Bitter Sweet Sympathy though it's such a good song. I remember buying the cd single back in 1997.
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Post by tiger40 on Oct 4, 2021 13:38:24 GMT -5
However I've never liked the video which they did for the song, I always thought that it was terrible really.
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Post by captainsoul on Oct 18, 2021 17:43:29 GMT -5
His oldest son on the stage with him:
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Post by captainsoul on Oct 18, 2021 17:45:52 GMT -5
Ashcroft was super unlucky that it was Klein who held the rights, as he was such a cutthroat lawyer and also was strongly against sampling. There's no way he was going to let that money get away, but he did it in the most egregious way possible. The Stones (who stole the refrain from The Staples Singers to begin with) did benefit financially from it for a long time, and didn't question it, so I wouldn't overdo the credit but they made it right in 2019, so at least there's that. The big lesson to anyone with a band out there is that intellectual property is a b**ch. If you don't know what you're doing, and you're not sure if someone holds rights, hire an experienced lawyer. Musicians have been stealing from one another for centuries, long before there was electric music, but now it's a minefield. The irony is the verve did get permission to sample that orchestral track. I believe it was like 30 seconds approval but they used something like 40 seconds. When the song blew up globally it was only then that Klein came knocking. It was the “Stones” biggest hit in 2 decades!!! Ha! |
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Post by webm@ster on Oct 19, 2021 10:09:12 GMT -5
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Post by bt95 on Oct 20, 2021 3:47:52 GMT -5
Ashcroft was super unlucky that it was Klein who held the rights, as he was such a cutthroat lawyer and also was strongly against sampling. There's no way he was going to let that money get away, but he did it in the most egregious way possible. The Stones (who stole the refrain from The Staples Singers to begin with) did benefit financially from it for a long time, and didn't question it, so I wouldn't overdo the credit but they made it right in 2019, so at least there's that. The big lesson to anyone with a band out there is that intellectual property is a b**ch. If you don't know what you're doing, and you're not sure if someone holds rights, hire an experienced lawyer. Musicians have been stealing from one another for centuries, long before there was electric music, but now it's a minefield. The irony is the verve did get permission to sample that orchestral track. I believe it was like 30 seconds approval but they used something like 40 seconds. When the song blew up globally it was only then that Klein came knocking. It was the “Stones” biggest hit in 2 decades!!! Ha! Tbf, The Verve did go on to make a lot of money (not as much as they should have done) from BTS, when it got played on that Nike advert. They gave it all to charity, mind, but the use of BTS in that ad really helped propel Urban Hymns in the US so they did at least get the boost from that. Not like they played small venues on that 1998 US tour was it. Some arenas, some large theatres. |
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Post by bt95 on Oct 20, 2021 3:55:06 GMT -5
I've pre-ordered his acoustic album and am looking forward to it. Besides that, I'm not into him like I used to as I disagree what he's been up to Covid-19.
PS: He was really kind when I met him by the way. Has he actually done anything bad? Pulled the gig in Warrington - other than that, do we actually know what he's done re. COVID? We know about as much what Richard's vaccine status as we do Liam's, tbf? And regardless, not getting the vaccine doesn't make you a bad person. I don't agree with people not getting it, but it doesn't make them evil. I'm able to separate the music out from it because it's not like he's gone full Glitter or anything. I know you're still giving him your hard-earned cash so this isn't a dig at all. Just thought worth pointing out. He might be a raging anti-vaxer. He might not be. I don't really care if he is or not because I still love his music and ultimately it's everybody's choice what they put in their body. I can't do anything to change that. That being said, his last two solo albums were pretty crap so suppose it's nice to see him mix things up and really looking forward to C'mon People with Liam. Had the chance to get tickets to see him on 1st November in Manchester but unfortunately can't get out of work, so hoping there's a bigger tour next year. |
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Post by mimmihopps on Oct 20, 2021 5:08:26 GMT -5
I've pre-ordered his acoustic album and am looking forward to it. Besides that, I'm not into him like I used to as I disagree what he's been up to Covid-19.
PS: He was really kind when I met him by the way. Pulled the gig in Warrington - other than that, do we actually know what he's done re. COVID? We know about as much what Richard's vaccine status as we do Liam's, tbf? And regardless, not getting the vaccine doesn't make you a bad person. I don't agree with people not getting it, but it doesn't make them evil. I'm able to separate the music out from it because it's not like he's gone full Glitter or anything. I know you're still giving him your hard-earned cash so this isn't a dig at all. Just thought worth pointing out. He might be a raging anti-vaxer. He might not be. I don't really care if he is or not because I still love his music and ultimately it's everybody's choice what they put in their body. I can't do anything to change that.That being said, his last two solo albums were pretty crap so suppose it's nice to see him mix things up and really looking forward to C'mon People with Liam. Had the chance to get tickets to see him on 1st November in Manchester but unfortunately can't get out of work, so hoping there's a bigger tour next year. Resposing to those lines in bold: I'm not saying if he's actually done anything bad or not. I agree with what you're saying - not getting vaccine doesn't make anyone evil. Of course it's everyobody's choice what they put in their body. If Ashcroft is an anti-vaxer, so it be. Nobody can force him to get vaccinated if he doesn't want. However someone well-known should be aware what they say in public, especially about issues like this because it could involve many people's lives. I love The Verve and his early records and I'm looking forward to his upcoming acoustic album though. |
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Post by matt on Oct 21, 2021 7:52:50 GMT -5
It's mad how Ashcroft has a problem with scientifically approved vaccines yet he's probably injected himself with god knows what toxic substances over the years.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5