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Post by bwilder on Jan 4, 2011 22:12:45 GMT -5
You can tell that Liam was really hurt by Noel walking out. You can clearly see that he wanted Oasis to have gone on for many more years. That's where the bitterness comes from. He's not being overly nasty. He's just greatly disappointed that Oasis no longer exist - which, if anything, obviously showcases even more of his appreciation for Noel's talents. Yup. This here.  |
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Post by bwilder on Jan 4, 2011 22:19:55 GMT -5
Plus, you gotta remember in order for a reconcilliation to happen, there needs to be some sort of compromise or meeting in the middle about the past. With these two brothers, that's asking a lot. Especially the history between them. However, as Noel once said, they both went through a tough upbringing, band triumphs, divorces, births together so who knows?
It'll be a while though, if it happens. At least 5 years.
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Post by gdforever on Jan 4, 2011 23:14:10 GMT -5
All assuming that Noel wasn't @ the "Fuck him if he thinks that I am going to dance around him like a fooking circus bear" stage that we ALL reach @ some point. We had this discussion on another thread. The fact the Liam wait to record his vocals in full until LA was ludicrous...particularly since he knew he wasn't gonna be there for the whole session! He had all that time in Abbey Road AND the months between AR and LA while Noel was busy with Donovan! Why the fuck are we only blaming Noel? Liam is the singer...it is his responsibility to do his vocals. This is the attitude that I won't miss about Oasis. The "blame everything on Noel" attitude from fans Please don't take this the wrong way but have you ever been in a recording session? I've logged more hours than I'd care to count in the past nine or so years doing recording and mixing work. I'm sure that Liam had recorded plenty of scratch tracks and they wanted to wait until final song arrangements were made and the tracklisting was getting ironed out out before doing the final takes. As a point of reference, Man Of Misery was clearly tracked in the DOYS sessions but had a very raw vocal on it. That's one example of a scratch vocal. Other examples of scratch vocals? Little James from the SOTSOG demos, the Sardy demos, the Death In Vegas version of TBWTL, LDSMD, the DM demos, etc. I would wager that they probably worked on something like 30-40 songs in this time period with Liam contributing vocals the whole time. Who would record the scratch vocals on his songs? Noel certainly wouldn't have. You think Liam waited to do vocals on 30-40 tracks in the span of a few weeks in LA? His voice (or that of most rock singers) wouldn't be able to hold up to that type of abuse. Would you like me to find all of the interviews with Owen Morris where he talks about Noel only adding his lead guitar parts to WTSMG and BHN while the records were in the process of being mixed? Do you remember that Gem and Noel went to Olympic Studios after other records to add more guitar parts after the rest of the band was finished? When you're a band that has an unlimited budget and no record label to answer to, Noel's explanation just doesn't hold much water. Anyway, it is what it is. Their relationship soured. Noel was upset that Liam didn't meet Donovan and then never invited him to his wedding. And I'm sure the whole time Liam was pissed at Noel for something stupid. Fast forward through a few months of recording sessions, have a traumatic incident put a major impediment in their U.S. promotional plan and there's a terrible start to a tour. I think Noel resented the band not being a little more sensitive to the physical fallout from his stage attack, even months later, and I think the rest of the band resented Noel not spending much time with them on the last tour unaware of the physical pain he was in. Is anyone at fault? Not really. Doesn't mean you can't still discuss it. As far as the vocals and the theoretical 30-40 songs that they worked on. You think that they hadn't decided on a rough track list by the end of the Abbey Road sessions? Maybe, maybe not. As for Noel adding his wTSMG guitar bits until mixing. I don't care. He stayed @ the mixing and finished them. The problem in that Liam waited then flaked. I don't care what order they do them in. But I think that there has to be a bit of responsibility for getting ur instrument parts down. Liam's instrument is his voice. End of the day it's his responsibility to get it recorded. He had the Abbey Road sessions, the months between Abbey Road and LA, and the LA sessions. But everyone is quick to yell that Noel should have forced the issue. Liam doesn't need Noel to sing...maybe HE could have pulled his wallet out and done it himself in London...maybe HE could have recorded it on his laptop in the airport. But no...on this forum these are all things that Noel should have done. Like Liam is some sort of moron? Liam is proving now that he had the capability to be a lot more proactive in Oasis. Why couldnt he have recorded his vocals and sent them off the the producer to be finished? Why did Noel have to try to pin him down? At least one of the unfinished songs was his own. Maybe he wouldn't want to attempt singing Noel's songs without Noel...but what about that one? If the situations were reversed and Liam had needed to take time off between recording and mixing and Noels parts weren't done yet. Then during mixing Noel left some of his bits undone to go off and marry Sara...I'd be saying the same thing about him. Oh wait...that would probably never happen. |
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Post by gdforever on Jan 4, 2011 23:25:01 GMT -5
For people, particualrly Liam, to write Noel off as having no commitment to the band kind of steams me up. Whilst I have no real opinion to the Noel/Liam war, it's probably worth pointing out that Noel pulled out of more Oasis shows than Liam did. But when Noel pulls out he leaves the band. He's fed up. When Liam pulls out it just seems more neglectful. Like the V festival. He went hooting and hollering to a football game and then the next day he has a sore throat...is that really the same thing as Noel canceling due to broken ribs? Is Liam refusing to go on the American tour because he wants to buy a house the same as Noel leaving because he was livid that his brother had poked at his fragile private life by insinuating that his daughter was a bastard by someone else? Do we really supposed to believe that a significant number of his sore throats weren't lifestyle induced? When a show is cancelled because of Noel people worried the band was over. When they were cancelled because of Liam or he didn't show up it was just Liam being Liam. |
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Post by Headmaster on Jan 4, 2011 23:28:55 GMT -5
If Stop The Clocks, Record Machine and first and foremost Come On Its All Right appear on Noel's solo album then I will totally believe in Liam.
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Post by spaneli on Jan 4, 2011 23:29:05 GMT -5
^^I dont include STC in that list. STC is from ages ago. Liam was referring to the DOYS era.
Well not ages ago, but at least the DBTT era.
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Post by gdforever on Jan 4, 2011 23:29:22 GMT -5
If Stop The Clocks, Record Machine and first and foremost Come On Its All Right appear on Noel's solo album then I will believe in Liam. So there is no chance that they could have been left of because they didn't fit with the type of album they were going for? |
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Post by spaneli on Jan 4, 2011 23:34:50 GMT -5
^^I think Noel stated himself, that he wanted those songs on there. If they didnt fit the album, then he wouldnt have wanted them on there.
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Post by gdforever on Jan 4, 2011 23:42:33 GMT -5
^^I think Noel stated himself, that he wanted those songs on there. If they didnt fit the album, then he wouldnt have wanted them on there. lol that's right. Must be getting tired. Scratch that. Just meant their could be other reason they were left of other than Noel keeping them for a solo album. |
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Post by spaneli on Jan 4, 2011 23:48:27 GMT -5
^Fair enough. I think Liam should've been more proactive, but I also think that a ton of the blame does fall on Noel because in the end he was the leader of the group and had final say.
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Post by sultrysummer on Jan 5, 2011 0:08:53 GMT -5
Anyway, it is what it is. Their relationship soured. Noel was upset that Liam didn't meet Donovan and then never invited him to his wedding. And I'm sure the whole time Liam was pissed at Noel for something stupid. Fast forward through a few months of recording sessions, have a traumatic incident put a major impediment in their U.S. promotional plan and there's a terrible start to a tour. I think Noel resented the band not being a little more sensitive to the physical fallout from his stage attack, even months later, and I think the rest of the band resented Noel not spending much time with them on the last tour unaware of the physical pain he was in. Is anyone at fault? Not really. Doesn't mean you can't still discuss it. Thanks for an interesting & thoughtful post! Feel a bit stupid to answer only on the "domestic part", but I've got the hunch it had a major effect on the eventual downfall of Oasis. First, the wedding: as discussed earlier, it seems that from the Liam/Nicole wedding onwards things really started to go downhill between Noel and Liam. There is a real change of tone in their interviews, when discussing each other, from DBTT period to DOYS period. The anger Noel has shown towards Liam for "sneaking away to get married" is disproportional; as many of you have noted, those few days absent could easily have been covered, but for some reason Noel decided to end the recording process there and then. For some reason we probably will not ever know Noel was really angry about Liam getting married. And yes, as you write, a lot of the spitefulness may stem from the fact that he was not invited. Which is understandable, since the rest of the immediate Gallagher family were there, as were Nicole's family. So the decision not to tell/invite Noel was an intentional one and why it was done ties, IMO, in with the eventual downfall of Oasis. As for other domestic matters: Liam and Nicole saw Donovan as a baby, there are interview snippets where Nicole tells how adorable the baby is and such. But that was prior to the February 2008 wedding, so it is possible that after that they really didn't pay any "family visits" or such. You write that "Noel was upset that Liam didn't meet Donovan". I think it is the other way around; in the spring 2009 Q interview Noel says that Liam is "not allowed" to meet Donovan, implying that he is a bad influence (drunk/aggressive...). Considering that Liam has always been "good with kids" (a trait that Noel, in happier times, said he envied, describing himself as the grumpy-uncle-in-the-corner) this seems very odd and a further proof that, even before the August 2009 split, Noel was heading towards a life without Liam. My take on the matter is that there are also class issues at stake. Noel seems to be drifting more and more into this upper-middle-class lifestyle (I think Sara, with her private education and such, has had a major effect), and this clashes with Liam's (pretend?) boorishness. Regarding the Toronto incident, I agree with you that the stage attack and its consequences helped to separate Noel further from the rest of the band. But there, I think, a problem might have been that the rest of the band really didn't know about the extent of the physical pain he was having. Although Noel is a very eloquent interviewee and has this loudmouth facade, I could well see him remain quiet about his problems within the band - at the same the expecting that they/Liam would understand him & the situation nevertheless. When that apparently didn't happen, it just widened the gulf between Noel and the others. |
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Post by sultrysummer on Jan 5, 2011 1:33:21 GMT -5
I don't care what order they do them in. But I think that there has to be a bit of responsibility for getting ur instrument parts down. Liam's instrument is his voice. End of the day it's his responsibility to get it recorded. He had the Abbey Road sessions, the months between Abbey Road and LA, and the LA sessions. But everyone is quick to yell that Noel should have forced the issue. Liam doesn't need Noel to sing...maybe HE could have pulled his wallet out and done it himself in London...maybe HE could have recorded it on his laptop in the airport. But no...on this forum these are all things that Noel should have done. Like Liam is some sort of moron? Totally agree with you. Throughout the Oasis years, Noel and Liam were viewed through totally different standards: no matter how hard Noel worked, it wasn't enough/was not done "well enough", whereas Liam - well, he was "just Liam", with no responsibility expected from him at all. As if he indeed was "just some sort of a moron". However, I think that save for the last few years of Oasis, Noel went along with that, not really wanting Liam to take the responsibility. Liam's behaviour & involvement with Beady Eye has so far been a pleasant surprise. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jan 5, 2011 4:09:27 GMT -5
Why did you say he was being a twat though? I don't really get what he's said that wrong? He's constantly moaning about Noel and everything else. He needs to shut up and focus on what he's doing. He's only doing all this whining to get publicity for Beardy Eye, he should let the music do the talking and stop crying over split milk. For whatever reason Oasis split. It's been, it's happened, no one can change that, he needs to get over it, move on and stop being such a baby He's been asked a question in an interview and he's answered it. You don't think that text was all one big rant do you? Would you rather he didn't give his opinion. |
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Post by Rolo on Jan 5, 2011 8:13:09 GMT -5
He's been asked a question in an interview and he's answered it. You don't think that text was all one big rant do you? Would you rather he didn't give his opinion. I'm not arguing about it I just feel the way he's spoke about Noel since the split is unjust. He hasn't said anything nasty or malicious as far as I'm aware? He has just stated his opinion on the matter as he has been asked about it and fairplay to Liam for answering the question, all he has basically said in all the interviews he's been asked about the matter is ''Noel wanted out'' and that Noel is ''Miserable'', I think people forget they are brothers at times as well, so what if they slag each other off, half the time they probably don't even mean it. I'm not saying Noel is to blame for everything in Oasis splitting but I think Liam is right in saying ''He wanted out'', on the last tour you could tell Noel seemed really un-interested on stage, the only performance he seemed up for it was the Argentina gig. |
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Post by ToneBender on Jan 5, 2011 8:24:40 GMT -5
Please don't take this the wrong way but have you ever been in a recording session? I've logged more hours than I'd care to count in the past nine or so years doing recording and mixing work. I'm sure that Liam had recorded plenty of scratch tracks and they wanted to wait until final song arrangements were made and the tracklisting was getting ironed out out before doing the final takes. As a point of reference, Man Of Misery was clearly tracked in the DOYS sessions but had a very raw vocal on it. That's one example of a scratch vocal. Other examples of scratch vocals? Little James from the SOTSOG demos, the Sardy demos, the Death In Vegas version of TBWTL, LDSMD, the DM demos, etc. I would wager that they probably worked on something like 30-40 songs in this time period with Liam contributing vocals the whole time. Who would record the scratch vocals on his songs? Noel certainly wouldn't have. You think Liam waited to do vocals on 30-40 tracks in the span of a few weeks in LA? His voice (or that of most rock singers) wouldn't be able to hold up to that type of abuse. Would you like me to find all of the interviews with Owen Morris where he talks about Noel only adding his lead guitar parts to WTSMG and BHN while the records were in the process of being mixed? Do you remember that Gem and Noel went to Olympic Studios after other records to add more guitar parts after the rest of the band was finished? When you're a band that has an unlimited budget and no record label to answer to, Noel's explanation just doesn't hold much water. Anyway, it is what it is. Their relationship soured. Noel was upset that Liam didn't meet Donovan and then never invited him to his wedding. And I'm sure the whole time Liam was pissed at Noel for something stupid. Fast forward through a few months of recording sessions, have a traumatic incident put a major impediment in their U.S. promotional plan and there's a terrible start to a tour. I think Noel resented the band not being a little more sensitive to the physical fallout from his stage attack, even months later, and I think the rest of the band resented Noel not spending much time with them on the last tour unaware of the physical pain he was in. Is anyone at fault? Not really. Doesn't mean you can't still discuss it. As far as the vocals and the theoretical 30-40 songs that they worked on. You think that they hadn't decided on a rough track list by the end of the Abbey Road sessions? Maybe, maybe not. As for Noel adding his wTSMG guitar bits until mixing. I don't care. He stayed @ the mixing and finished them. The problem in that Liam waited then flaked. I don't care what order they do them in. But I think that there has to be a bit of responsibility for getting ur instrument parts down. Liam's instrument is his voice. End of the day it's his responsibility to get it recorded. He had the Abbey Road sessions, the months between Abbey Road and LA, and the LA sessions. But everyone is quick to yell that Noel should have forced the issue. Liam doesn't need Noel to sing...maybe HE could have pulled his wallet out and done it himself in London...maybe HE could have recorded it on his laptop in the airport. But no...on this forum these are all things that Noel should have done. Like Liam is some sort of moron? Liam is proving now that he had the capability to be a lot more proactive in Oasis. Why couldnt he have recorded his vocals and sent them off the the producer to be finished? Why did Noel have to try to pin him down? At least one of the unfinished songs was his own. Maybe he wouldn't want to attempt singing Noel's songs without Noel...but what about that one? If the situations were reversed and Liam had needed to take time off between recording and mixing and Noels parts weren't done yet. Then during mixing Noel left some of his bits undone to go off and marry Sara...I'd be saying the same thing about him. Oh wait...that would probably never happen. GDforever...General Dread Forever? No I don't think that they had a final tracklist when they went out to LA. I think they were still tinkering quite a bit. And yes, I believe that Liam wouldn't have laid down vocals to Noel's songs without him there. And yes, I believe that if they're Noel's songs, it's his responsibility to be present for all aspects. You might recall that Andy played nothing on The Nature Of Reality even though it was his song. He instead acted as producer and directed the entire process. I don't think Noel should have forced the issue, unless you work under the auspice that he's "The Chief" who directs the entire process anyway. If he was working on the tracklist and said, "Damnit, Liam should've put vocals on this track and then we can have a much better running order" then yes, it's his responsibility to say, "Liam, we'll need you to do some vocals on this track since it really should be on the record. Would you mind taking an afternoon to finish this off?" You have commented twice that he could have recorded the vocals in Abbey Road. He PROBABLY did record some vocals in Abbey Road. Perhaps they were scratch tracks. Perhaps they were final takes. Perhaps the band felt they needed to work on the songs more before adding the final vocals. I'm going to suggest that in the absence of experience in the process, and in the absence of a daily recording log, it's not fair to throw accusations at any member of the band. Period. As someone has pointed out, Noel has walked out on far more gigs than Liam has. You justify it with, "well he was exhausted of the band." Guigsy left after "exhaustion", aka a massive drunken night in Paris. Liam backing out of the US tour to "find a house" was probably a front for some nervous breakdown. The guy was what, 23 at the time and was basically becoming the most famous rock star on the planet? I don't think anyone here wants to lay blame except for you. And the blame is always laid squarely at Liam's feet. Your tone in reviewing the Beady Eye work and your tone in this thread seems to suggest that you have an axe to grind. Most of what Liam said in that interview sounded like the emotion of anger, but nothing that he said was particularly off the mark. Having been following these guys pretty religiously for about 14 years now, imho, any time they're not getting along, it's form some long simmering emotions that neither of them feel comfortable talking honestly about. The "trigger events" (the fight on the 2000 tour, the cricket bat incident in WTSMG sessions, the wedding departure in DOYS sessions, etc.) are just excuses to express the emotions without having a real conversation. How many times have we heard Liam give his thoughts about Keane in rehab and how "soft they are"? Liam just quit drinking and drugs all by himself we're lead to believe. I'm betting he kicked the addiction but the emotional issues are probably still there. And Noel saying, "I haven't got a father" and pretending that sending him to the hospital after kicking the crap out of him had no emotional impact on him? Really? Are we to believe that these guys don't actually care about these things? It's all raw emotion that they just don't know how to deal with. On the 2000 tour, they both said they never apologized to each other. They shook hands on stage during Acquiesce and that was that. The next two years (Tour Of Brotherly Love and HC tour) was a love fest between the two. And then the unresolved emotions started coming out again. Anyway, off to work. I'm sure someone with a psychology degree would be far better off at analyzing these two than I am...Heaven forbid any of us ever got psychoanalyzed in public for half our lives...It's no wonder these two have complexes!! |
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Post by Rolo on Jan 5, 2011 8:35:06 GMT -5
Them comments are all tongue in cheek though, they are not nasty, Liam is just being Liam, you should know that by now. Even when Oasis were together he used to say something similar to your top quote all the time, ''I see enough of that fucker on the road, I couldn't care less what he does in his free time'' or something similar. He's just being what he's always been like, outspoken, which should come to no surprise to any one by now.
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Post by Rolo on Jan 5, 2011 8:46:17 GMT -5
He's a fully grown bloke, it may be somewhat tongue in cheek but in recent interviews, my opinion is that he's acting childish and just trying to get hype for Beardy Eye. If you disagree that's cool, that's just how I see it I don't see how he's acting childish or trying to get hype for Beady Eye out of it though to be perfectly honest, the interviewer has obviousy asked him a question and he's answered thruthfully like he always does, I don't see it as childish behaviour as he hasn't really said anything out of the ordinary to what he usually says. They obviously at the moment really don't like each other and I'm sure when Noel has an album out he will be asked the same question about Liam and yeah, he may answer it in a smarter way but as I said before Liam is just being Liam and he is clearly very upset still at Noel for walking out on Oasis. But as you said, we all have an opinion. |
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Post by Mr. Monobrow on Jan 5, 2011 9:22:25 GMT -5
^^whats the total? I know Liam was gone for part of the US leg and Noel was also gone for a good chunk of shows when he ran away to the west coast. Liam always cops a load of flak for that '96 US tour, but here's the fact: he missed one show, the first show of the tour in Chicago on 27th August 1996. He was back for the next show on the 30th in Michigan. What happened at the end of the tour was a different matter, with Noel walking out IIRC. Then you had the last few months of the European tour in 2000 where Noel didn't want to play any shows in mainland Europe, only in the UK and Ireland. So you had the farcical situation where Noel missed a few shows in Europe, came back for the UK, then stayed at home when the band went back to Europe, then came back for the UK festivals. Not on, and far worse than what Liam did for the 96 tour. |
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Post by Bring It On Dan on Jan 5, 2011 9:25:16 GMT -5
Always entertaining reading a Liam interview, and no matter what he says he obviously loves his brother and realises he wouldn't be half as famous or successful without him.
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Post by spyrosfab4 on Jan 5, 2011 10:05:25 GMT -5
Liam is seriously delusional judging from this interview and others....
Can't he shut the fuck up and realise that he is one of the lucky people in the history of british rock?
Sure he used to be a great vocalist during 94-97,but nobody would ever be interested in hearing his lennonesque songriting efforts,if he wasn't noel's brother...
He made a fortune based on songs written by somebody else for fuck's sake...Sure i love the fact that he doesn't play the game and his hilarious comments about everything...but NOBODY WOULD EVER GIVE A FUCK ABOUT LIAM GALLAGHER IF HIS BROTHER WASN'T A GREAT SONGWRITER....
Also,HE BUTCHERED MANY GOOD SONGS WITH HIS BAD SINGING FROM 2000 ONWARDS(go let it out,love like a bomb,keep the dream alive,a bell will ring and on and on...).It's one of the reasons that only loyal fans buy their records these days..
I play songs from DBTT and HC to friends who love the first two albums and they say ''what the fuck happened to him?''...Although i love his singing on DOYS,but still...
Anyway,he should be a bit more humble especially towards his brother....
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jan 5, 2011 10:08:40 GMT -5
It wasn't just his voice that declined but the quality of the songwriting too.
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Post by martinpaul on Jan 5, 2011 10:13:22 GMT -5
Why does every single new thread on here turn into Noel vs Liam?  My opinion for what it's worth is that they have both done far worse individually than what they subsequestly accuse the other of doing wrong. Noel gets away with this perception of everything being Liam's fault because he did 99% of the interviews, is a very elequent and funny interviewee so he sows seeds that people pick up on. Because Liam isn't as articulate he resorts to verbal abuse (either playful or meaningfull) in interviews which doesn't always paint the right picture. Just because someone uses bigger words and tells a good story doesn't mean they are telling the truth the whole time |
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Post by idledreamer on Jan 5, 2011 10:46:00 GMT -5
He made a fortune based on songs written by somebody else yes, noel wrote them.... but it was liam's voice that brought them to life. |
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Post by gdforever on Jan 5, 2011 10:46:34 GMT -5
As far as the vocals and the theoretical 30-40 songs that they worked on. You think that they hadn't decided on a rough track list by the end of the Abbey Road sessions? Maybe, maybe not. As for Noel adding his wTSMG guitar bits until mixing. I don't care. He stayed @ the mixing and finished them. The problem in that Liam waited then flaked. I don't care what order they do them in. But I think that there has to be a bit of responsibility for getting ur instrument parts down. Liam's instrument is his voice. End of the day it's his responsibility to get it recorded. He had the Abbey Road sessions, the months between Abbey Road and LA, and the LA sessions. But everyone is quick to yell that Noel should have forced the issue. Liam doesn't need Noel to sing...maybe HE could have pulled his wallet out and done it himself in London...maybe HE could have recorded it on his laptop in the airport. But no...on this forum these are all things that Noel should have done. Like Liam is some sort of moron? Liam is proving now that he had the capability to be a lot more proactive in Oasis. Why couldnt he have recorded his vocals and sent them off the the producer to be finished? Why did Noel have to try to pin him down? At least one of the unfinished songs was his own. Maybe he wouldn't want to attempt singing Noel's songs without Noel...but what about that one? If the situations were reversed and Liam had needed to take time off between recording and mixing and Noels parts weren't done yet. Then during mixing Noel left some of his bits undone to go off and marry Sara...I'd be saying the same thing about him. Oh wait...that would probably never happen. GDforever...General Dread Forever? No I don't think that they had a final tracklist when they went out to LA. I think they were still tinkering quite a bit. And yes, I believe that Liam wouldn't have laid down vocals to Noel's songs without him there. And yes, I believe that if they're Noel's songs, it's his responsibility to be present for all aspects. You might recall that Andy played nothing on The Nature Of Reality even though it was his song. He instead acted as producer and directed the entire process. I don't think Noel should have forced the issue, unless you work under the auspice that he's "The Chief" who directs the entire process anyway. If he was working on the tracklist and said, "Damnit, Liam should've put vocals on this track and then we can have a much better running order" then yes, it's his responsibility to say, "Liam, we'll need you to do some vocals on this track since it really should be on the record. Would you mind taking an afternoon to finish this off?" You have commented twice that he could have recorded the vocals in Abbey Road. He PROBABLY did record some vocals in Abbey Road. Perhaps they were scratch tracks. Perhaps they were final takes. Perhaps the band felt they needed to work on the songs more before adding the final vocals. I'm going to suggest that in the absence of experience in the process, and in the absence of a daily recording log, it's not fair to throw accusations at any member of the band. Period. As someone has pointed out, Noel has walked out on far more gigs than Liam has. You justify it with, "well he was exhausted of the band." Guigsy left after "exhaustion", aka a massive drunken night in Paris. Liam backing out of the US tour to "find a house" was probably a front for some nervous breakdown. The guy was what, 23 at the time and was basically becoming the most famous rock star on the planet? I don't think anyone here wants to lay blame except for you. And the blame is always laid squarely at Liam's feet. Your tone in reviewing the Beady Eye work and your tone in this thread seems to suggest that you have an axe to grind. Most of what Liam said in that interview sounded like the emotion of anger, but nothing that he said was particularly off the mark. Having been following these guys pretty religiously for about 14 years now, imho, any time they're not getting along, it's form some long simmering emotions that neither of them feel comfortable talking honestly about. The "trigger events" (the fight on the 2000 tour, the cricket bat incident in WTSMG sessions, the wedding departure in DOYS sessions, etc.) are just excuses to express the emotions without having a real conversation. How many times have we heard Liam give his thoughts about Keane in rehab and how "soft they are"? Liam just quit drinking and drugs all by himself we're lead to believe. I'm betting he kicked the addiction but the emotional issues are probably still there. And Noel saying, "I haven't got a father" and pretending that sending him to the hospital after kicking the crap out of him had no emotional impact on him? Really? Are we to believe that these guys don't actually care about these things? It's all raw emotion that they just don't know how to deal with. On the 2000 tour, they both said they never apologized to each other. They shook hands on stage during Acquiesce and that was that. The next two years (Tour Of Brotherly Love and HC tour) was a love fest between the two. And then the unresolved emotions started coming out again. Anyway, off to work. I'm sure someone with a psychology degree would be far better off at analyzing these two than I am...Heaven forbid any of us ever got psychoanalyzed in public for half our lives...It's no wonder these two have complexes!! I love when people tell me what I think. lol I don't had an axe to grind about BDI. I've been mostly positive about the promo clips. I thought BTL was average and FLW was slightly above average musically and very good lyrically. In fact in this very thread I have said that Liam has proved that he has shown with BDI that he had the capability to do so much more for Oasis...but didn't. I do have an axe to grind about people not pulling their weight. I also have an axe to grind about Liam retrospectively saying that Noel kept back tunes for himself and didn't put effort into the group. I don't believe that. Again...you put it down to that Noel should have asked Liam to put down vocals. Liam was a man in his mid-30's with 15 years recording experience he didn't need his brother to hold his hand. Maybe HE could have stepped up. That is my point. No one has said that Liam did any singing in Abbey Road. Not even Liam has said that. I they weren't the rest vocals what does it matter really? The fact is the band had planned the time...but Liam bailed to get married. We can argue all we want about who should have been responsible for ensuring Liam sang...but the core of the fact is that Liam should have been there. Noel left his infant son for weeks to go to LA and finish it and stayed to whole time. Liam left early to marry his girlfriend at a registry in a low key, could have been done anytime, affair. Noel probably wanted to spend some quality time with his new son before he left him for the better part of a year. But you are right...he should have spent more time getting Liam to grow up instead. Haven't heard anything about Liam booking studio time in London as soon as he realized that he wasn't going to be able to finish his bits but Noel refusing to show up because he was being a moron. But that is right...Noel was the one that was supposed to book the time. Liam was just a moron incapable of something as advanced as planning a recording session. Maybe the problem is that I expected more from Liam. I was to one that said that I could understand Liam not wanting to record Noels songs vocal without Noel so don't throw that back @ me. What I asked was, why didn't Liam finish his own song? One of the unfinished songs was a Liam tune. Why didn't that one get finished? I am not trying to say that Noel isn't partially to blame and can't be an immovable object when it comes to some situations. Just that this attitude that Liam was some kind of muppet that Noel had to pick up and set in front of a microphone is kind of 1994. As for him missing gigs. To be honest I don't think that really gives an indication of his level of commitment to the band. You can lay all the stats on the table but I don't think that I will ever agree that Noel put less effort into the band than Liam. |
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Post by gdforever on Jan 5, 2011 10:53:11 GMT -5
Why does every single new thread on here turn into Noel vs Liam? My opinion for what it's worth is that they have both done far worse individually than what they subsequestly accuse the other of doing wrong. Noel gets away with this perception of everything being Liam's fault because he did 99% of the interviews, is a very elequent and funny interviewee so he sows seeds that people pick up on. Because Liam isn't as articulate he resorts to verbal abuse (either playful or meaningfull) in interviews which doesn't always paint the right picture. Just because someone uses bigger words and tells a good story doesn't mean they are telling the truth the whole time What are you talking about? Everything is always Noels fault? That is the point. Noel can tell his side of the story as much as he wanted about how someone else dropped the ball...but people STILL blamed him. Liam hardly gets blamed for anything. He goes to a football game, yells a bit there and has to cancel a gig. Everyone says fair enough. Liam runs of during the mixing and leaves things undone...but the reason that the songs are left off the album is because Noel didn't make the time to do it later. Little James was crap...Noel shouldn't have put it on... When is the last time Liam got cop for something that he didn't instigate? |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5