|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 7, 2024 22:45:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mimmihopps on Oct 8, 2024 3:41:27 GMT -5
I couldn't believe my ears hearing Starmer saying "We stand with Israel". With that word, he officially announced that he supports this genocide. Israel and Hamas, no better than one another. This killing must stop! There are a lot of absurdities and Iranian/Russian/Chinese propaganda in this thread, that are not really worth the energy to discuss, but I must ask you about this statement which I think is especially weird since we are in the context of a rock n roll music forum. Do you really believe that Israel and Hamas are "no better than one another"? One of them is a pluralistic liberal democratic state, albeit with flaws – the only country in the Middle east where arab citizens enjoy democratic rights. The other is an islamist racist terror group with an ideology and practice that detest the essence of Western civilization, including of course, western rock n roll music. Its most important pillar is the hatred of the Jewish people. It started a war against Israel exactly one year ago. This happened with a terrorist attack that was spearheaded by, among other things, a coordinated attack against young people at a music festival. They were systematically raping and then killing female festival visitors in the most gruesome manner. They filmed it all in order to provoke a violent response from the country it attacked and to create a big war in the Middle East. Civilian casualties among Palestinians is, for ideological and practical reasons, not anything that bothers Hamas. The said terror group is financed and allied with Iran, the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the region. A country that is not only systematically oppressing its own people, but also others in the region through proxies such as Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthu movement. Iran is also conducting attacks of various kinds on European countries and it is an important ally of Russia and China, the west's major geopolitical enemies and two countries who is working with all their might to undermine the current world order. Against the background of watching the incredible suffering of the Palestinian people on TV, it is understandable that people feel strongly for their cause. But with some basic knowledge of the larger conflict, and some basic understanding of how precious our civilization and our liberal values are – I find it alarming that so many people take this strong stance against Israel, in favor of Iran and Hamas. I think it's good that this forum has this particular "Uit Humiliter Opinion" board which people could disucuss this matter. Of course this is an Oasis fan forum which we mainly discuss and exchange our opinions about Oasis and other bands, but we can talk about another matters such as sports, politic and all that as well, can't we? Me saying that Israel and Hamas are no better than other, I meant the current situation. They're killing each other and it must stop. People are dying for nothing on both sides. I feel hopeless and miserable every time when I see the footages on news and posting my humble opinions about this war from my cosy room on this part of the forum doens't help anything, but how on earth could anyone justify what Israel is doing right now?
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 8, 2024 14:09:00 GMT -5
There are a lot of absurdities and Iranian/Russian/Chinese propaganda in this thread, that are not really worth the energy to discuss, but I must ask you about this statement which I think is especially weird since we are in the context of a rock n roll music forum. Do you really believe that Israel and Hamas are "no better than one another"? One of them is a pluralistic liberal democratic state, albeit with flaws – the only country in the Middle east where arab citizens enjoy democratic rights. The other is an islamist racist terror group with an ideology and practice that detest the essence of Western civilization, including of course, western rock n roll music. Its most important pillar is the hatred of the Jewish people. It started a war against Israel exactly one year ago. This happened with a terrorist attack that was spearheaded by, among other things, a coordinated attack against young people at a music festival. They were systematically raping and then killing female festival visitors in the most gruesome manner. They filmed it all in order to provoke a violent response from the country it attacked and to create a big war in the Middle East. Civilian casualties among Palestinians is, for ideological and practical reasons, not anything that bothers Hamas. The said terror group is financed and allied with Iran, the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the region. A country that is not only systematically oppressing its own people, but also others in the region through proxies such as Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthu movement. Iran is also conducting attacks of various kinds on European countries and it is an important ally of Russia and China, the west's major geopolitical enemies and two countries who is working with all their might to undermine the current world order. Against the background of watching the incredible suffering of the Palestinian people on TV, it is understandable that people feel strongly for their cause. But with some basic knowledge of the larger conflict, and some basic understanding of how precious our civilization and our liberal values are – I find it alarming that so many people take this strong stance against Israel, in favor of Iran and Hamas. I feel hopeless and miserable every time when I see the footages on news and posting my humble opinions about this war from my cosy room on this part of the forum doens't help anything, but how on earth could anyone justify what Israel is doing right now? I keep hoping that if enough of the public evaluates the situation and says NO to our politicians and demand action to stop the violence, that they'll have to listen to us.
Lately, it's certainly feeling like pie in the sky. I feel like we already have a majority of the public horrified and speaking out and politicians just aren't budging = (
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 8, 2024 14:44:03 GMT -5
Wait for it ... dayuuuum.
|
|
Lundblad
Oasis Roadie
Nothing ever lasts forever
Posts: 476
|
Post by Lundblad on Oct 9, 2024 16:58:23 GMT -5
Wait for it ... dayuuuum. Vatnik. Edit: To clarify: This journalist in the video asking the question is just spewing out false Kremlin propaganda, false narratives about the Russian war of aggression in Ukraine. In the same mold as Tucker Carlson and similar idiots. Addition: I just googled the guy. I read that he has also justified China's persecution muslims (Uighurs). What a surprise.
|
|
Lundblad
Oasis Roadie
Nothing ever lasts forever
Posts: 476
|
Post by Lundblad on Oct 9, 2024 17:05:19 GMT -5
There are a lot of absurdities and Iranian/Russian/Chinese propaganda in this thread, that are not really worth the energy to discuss, but I must ask you about this statement which I think is especially weird since we are in the context of a rock n roll music forum. Do you really believe that Israel and Hamas are "no better than one another"? One of them is a pluralistic liberal democratic state, albeit with flaws – the only country in the Middle east where arab citizens enjoy democratic rights. The other is an islamist racist terror group with an ideology and practice that detest the essence of Western civilization, including of course, western rock n roll music. Its most important pillar is the hatred of the Jewish people. It started a war against Israel exactly one year ago. This happened with a terrorist attack that was spearheaded by, among other things, a coordinated attack against young people at a music festival. They were systematically raping and then killing female festival visitors in the most gruesome manner. They filmed it all in order to provoke a violent response from the country it attacked and to create a big war in the Middle East. Civilian casualties among Palestinians is, for ideological and practical reasons, not anything that bothers Hamas. The said terror group is financed and allied with Iran, the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the region. A country that is not only systematically oppressing its own people, but also others in the region through proxies such as Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthu movement. Iran is also conducting attacks of various kinds on European countries and it is an important ally of Russia and China, the west's major geopolitical enemies and two countries who is working with all their might to undermine the current world order. Against the background of watching the incredible suffering of the Palestinian people on TV, it is understandable that people feel strongly for their cause. But with some basic knowledge of the larger conflict, and some basic understanding of how precious our civilization and our liberal values are – I find it alarming that so many people take this strong stance against Israel, in favor of Iran and Hamas. I think it's good that this forum has this particular "Uit Humiliter Opinion" board which people could disucuss this matter. Of course this is an Oasis fan forum which we mainly discuss and exchange our opinions about Oasis and other bands, but we can talk about another matters such as sports, politic and all that as well, can't we? Me saying that Israel and Hamas are no better than other, I meant the current situation. They're killing each other and it must stop. People are dying for nothing on both sides. I feel hopeless and miserable every time when I see the footages on news and posting my humble opinions about this war from my cosy room on this part of the forum doens't help anything, but how on earth could anyone justify what Israel is doing right now? Thanks for the reply. Yes, my point with the music forum was maybe a bit cryptic, but I just thought that it is a bit ironic that people equal the actions of a democracy defending itself against terror with the actions of a terror group that killed and raped young people at a music festival, at a music forum. Yes, the killing must stop, but Iran and Hamas are the aggressors – not Israel. If they respect Israel's right to exist, it they stop trying to kill jews in the most gruesome way possible and release the hostages, the killing will stop. Unfortunately that is the reality of the situation It is war, and war is a horrible thing.
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 9, 2024 20:39:16 GMT -5
Wait for it ... dayuuuum. Vatnik. Edit: To clarify: This journalist in the video asking the question is just spewing out false Kremlin propaganda, false narratives about the Russian war of aggression in Ukraine. In the same mold as Tucker Carlson and similar idiots. Addition: I just googled the guy. I read that he has also justified China's persecution muslims (Uighurs). What a surprise. This is ad hominem. A fallacious argument. It does not address or refute the substance of his claims. It is not a good argument.
Based on my research, his claims are aligned with the reality of what is happening in the ME.
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 10, 2024 15:52:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 10, 2024 16:12:23 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 10, 2024 19:19:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by mimmihopps on Oct 11, 2024 4:58:43 GMT -5
I think it's good that this forum has this particular "Uit Humiliter Opinion" board which people could disucuss this matter. Of course this is an Oasis fan forum which we mainly discuss and exchange our opinions about Oasis and other bands, but we can talk about another matters such as sports, politic and all that as well, can't we? Me saying that Israel and Hamas are no better than other, I meant the current situation. They're killing each other and it must stop. People are dying for nothing on both sides. I feel hopeless and miserable every time when I see the footages on news and posting my humble opinions about this war from my cosy room on this part of the forum doens't help anything, but how on earth could anyone justify what Israel is doing right now? Thanks for the reply. Yes, my point with the music forum was maybe a bit cryptic, but I just thought that it is a bit ironic that people equal the actions of a democracy defending itself against terror with the actions of a terror group that killed and raped young people at a music festival, at a music forum. Yes, the killing must stop, but Iran and Hamas are the aggressors – not Israel. If they respect Israel's right to exist, it they stop trying to kill jews in the most gruesome way possible and release the hostages, the killing will stop. Unfortunately that is the reality of the situation It is war, and war is a horrible thing. Yes, killing must stop on both sides. I can't agree with you about Israel is not aggressors. Holocaust was the horrible thing in the history, but it doesn't mean that Israel now has the right to kill all those civilians in Gaza and Libanon. Those people have the right to live too, just like the Jews.
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 11, 2024 16:45:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 14, 2024 13:07:47 GMT -5
SPEAK UP!
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 15, 2024 14:31:52 GMT -5
If you're still on the fence, just watch this host on CNN talk about this.
|
|
|
Post by mimmihopps on Oct 16, 2024 5:21:58 GMT -5
I've donated little money for the victims in Middle East. I really hope all the help will reach those who desperately need it. #STOP KILLING
|
|
|
Post by oasisserbia on Oct 16, 2024 10:16:20 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 16, 2024 18:15:20 GMT -5
WTF. Why is Germany always on the worst side of history?
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 17, 2024 14:08:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 17, 2024 14:10:49 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 17, 2024 15:16:16 GMT -5
Interesting interview.
|
|
Lundblad
Oasis Roadie
Nothing ever lasts forever
Posts: 476
|
Post by Lundblad on Oct 17, 2024 18:57:28 GMT -5
Since people keep posting videos here, I might just put this one from the latest Bill Maher episode here. Very much on-point.
|
|
Lundblad
Oasis Roadie
Nothing ever lasts forever
Posts: 476
|
Post by Lundblad on Oct 17, 2024 19:06:56 GMT -5
So now this islamist tyrant is portrayed as some peaceful freedom fighter. Disgusting! The Pro-Hamas left might want to get an idea of the founding principles of Hamas. This is the crap they are defending. This is in effect the pre-medieval principles they think should govern the Palestinian people.
|
|
Lundblad
Oasis Roadie
Nothing ever lasts forever
Posts: 476
|
Post by Lundblad on Oct 17, 2024 19:37:02 GMT -5
Vatnik. Edit: To clarify: This journalist in the video asking the question is just spewing out false Kremlin propaganda, false narratives about the Russian war of aggression in Ukraine. In the same mold as Tucker Carlson and similar idiots. Addition: I just googled the guy. I read that he has also justified China's persecution muslims (Uighurs). What a surprise. This is ad hominem. A fallacious argument. It does not address or refute the substance of his claims. It is not a good argument.
Based on my research, his claims are aligned with the reality of what is happening in the ME.
I wrote down some of his claims (notice how he talks really quickly so that he sounds sooo intelligent when he says stupid things. A bit like JD Vance does): "Meanwhile in Ukraine, they've struck deep within Russian territory several times, as deep as 300 miles from the border. We know that Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet." He is careful to not say it out loud, but it is underlying in his reasoning that he thinks that Ukraine's defence is unjustified or wrong. Then he talks about the fact that Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet and the risk of them deploying a nuclear weapon continues with saying: "The nuclear risk could very abruptly mean the end of what humans have worked for 1000s of years to collectively achieve. Us today are very lucky to live with the fruits of that achievement and I feel like we’re treating the rissk brazenly." My response is firstly that The Russian invasion of Ukraine could very abruptly end what humans have worked for 80 years to collectively achieve – a world order where might does not make right. Where powerful countries don't just do what they want with other countries. Where Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states, Poland, Taiwan, etc are not allowed to choose a democratic path instead of tyranny. Underlying his argument is the assumption that Ukraine should not be allowed to defend themselves against Russia, because of the fact that Russia has nuclear weapons. Meaning that they should be allowed to, to quote Donald Trump, "do what the hell they want". It is also worth noting here Russia has made several nuclear threats and red lines before, but they have proven to be empty. It is also worth noting that Ukraine gave up its share of the Soviet nuclear arsenal in 1994, for Russian guarantees that Ukraine's border would be respected. This is what happens when you deal with Russia. He then says: "My question for you is that we often hear in response to these concerns that while Putin, Khomeini are terrorist, war criminals, as if they are too evil for us to negotiate with..." The attempt to negotiate with Putin to suddenly transform him from a mob ruler to peaceful partner, and to avoid war in the face of the nuclear threat, has been tried FOR DECADES. It has FAILED MISERABLY. Most notably by weak leaders such as Angela Merkel and Barack Obama, and most recently, just weeks before the full-scale invasion in 2022, by Emmanuel Macron. I find it hard to see that Obama's Iran deal was a big success either. "This administration has financed a genocide in Gaza for the last year and every day you're up there denying accountability for it" It can be argued that Israel has acted too brutally in its defensive war in Gaza, but I have not seen any substantive claims that they are committing a genocide. The term should be used carefully, not as a slogan. The ICJ case put forward by South Africa is a pro-Russian ploy intended to weaken the Western nations. Almost no democratic countries support it. "This is a genocide and you are risking nuclear war in Ukraine" Again, he connects the US stance in the Palestine conflict with Ukraine and Russia. I don't think he cares much about Gaza, but it is obvious that the global public opinion against Israel is being used a tool for destabilizing the West and promoting Russian interests.
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 17, 2024 21:38:14 GMT -5
This is ad hominem. A fallacious argument. It does not address or refute the substance of his claims. It is not a good argument.
Based on my research, his claims are aligned with the reality of what is happening in the ME.
I wrote down some of his claims (notice how he talks really quickly so that he sounds sooo intelligent when he says stupid things. A bit like JD Vance does): "Meanwhile in Ukraine, they've struck deep within Russian territory several times, as deep as 300 miles from the border. We know that Russia has the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet." He is careful to not say it out loud, but it is underlying in his reasoning that he thinks that Ukraine's defence is unjustified or wrong.Your very first point avoids addressing the substance of their claim. Then you put words in their mouth ... That's called a straw man argument. It's another fallacy.
When the premise is flawed, so is the conclusion. The premises must be valid in order to reach the conclusion. That is the only way an argument can be sound.
This just isn't a good way to begin.
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Oct 17, 2024 21:50:36 GMT -5
So now this islamist tyrant is portrayed as some peaceful freedom fighter. Disgusting! The Pro-Hamas left might want to get an idea of the founding principles of Hamas. This is the crap they are defending. This is in effect the pre-medieval principles they think should govern the Palestinian people. So in your mind, there is nothing that is meaningful or heartfelt in his words? Nothing relatable? Have you imagined how you might act in his shoes, if you were in his situation?
I haven't verified the source, but I saw someone claiming that he was BORN in a refugee camp, presumably at an earlier time when his family was being attacked and displaced from their home. I'm sure that's an all too common tale shared among Palestinians.
Do you recognize the right of Palestinians to resist their occupation, apartheid and genocide?
|
|