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Post by RocketMan on Dec 17, 2022 7:38:11 GMT -5
I don’t like GOAT debates because it’s just impossible to compare players over different eras and there’s no real measurement of how big the impact of a player was outside of the obvious goals and assists, but this Finale does feel like a crowning moment for Messi, it could be like Jordan in Game 6 1998 or maybe Zidane 2006, which ended in a disaster.
Im pretty excited
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Post by The Escapist on Dec 17, 2022 8:22:36 GMT -5
I don’t like GOAT debates because it’s just impossible to compare players over different eras and there’s no real measurement of how big the impact of a player was outside of the obvious goals and assists, but this Finale does feel like a crowning moment for Messi, it could be like Jordan in Game 6 1998 or maybe Zidane 2006, which ended in a disaster. Im pretty excited is more subjective term taking into account club-winnings and influence and such, but if you're just talking about the best player, I don't see anyone that comes close to Messi. That sounds like hyperbole, but I don't think it is. He's the most dangerous goal-scorer in history, I think he's by far the most dangerous from open play, while also being arguably being the best chance-creator in history as well. And the best passer. And the best dribbler. It's like having Maradona and De Bruyne and Iniesta and Pele all in one man. You can spend all day talking about trophies and iconic moments and stuff, but if you tell me anyone is a better football player than Messi, then to me the conversation is a non-starter. No-one is as good at the kick-ball game than him. |
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 17, 2022 12:18:47 GMT -5
I don’t like GOAT debates because it’s just impossible to compare players over different eras and there’s no real measurement of how big the impact of a player was outside of the obvious goals and assists, but this Finale does feel like a crowning moment for Messi, it could be like Jordan in Game 6 1998 or maybe Zidane 2006, which ended in a disaster. Im pretty excited is more subjective term taking into account club-winnings and influence and such, but if you're just talking about the best player, I don't see anyone that comes close to Messi. That sounds like hyperbole, but I don't think it is. He's the most dangerous goal-scorer in history, I think he's by far the most dangerous from open play, while also being arguably being the best chance-creator in history as well. And the best passer. And the best dribbler. It's like having Maradona and De Bruyne and Iniesta and Pele all in one man. You can spend all day talking about trophies and iconic moments and stuff, but if you tell me anyone is a better football player than Messi, then to me the conversation is a non-starter. No-one is as good at the kick-ball game than him. That’s what I mean, this is all subjective. When I watch old clips of Maradona in his prime, I see a guy completely dominating the opponent. Put him in the same youth academy Messi went through , take away the drugs and alcohol, and you basically have Messi 1.0. But it’s just impossible to compare. It’s a different game, we have different tactics and even rules. |
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Post by The Escapist on Dec 17, 2022 12:50:42 GMT -5
Greatest is more subjective term taking into account club-winnings and influence and such, but if you're just talking about the best player, I don't see anyone that comes close to Messi. That sounds like hyperbole, but I don't think it is. He's the most dangerous goal-scorer in history, I think he's by far the most dangerous from open play, while also being arguably being the best chance-creator in history as well. And the best passer. And the best dribbler. It's like having Maradona and De Bruyne and Iniesta and Pele all in one man. You can spend all day talking about trophies and iconic moments and stuff, but if you tell me anyone is a better football player than Messi, then to me the conversation is a non-starter. No-one is as good at the kick-ball game than him. That’s what I mean, this is all subjective. When I watch old clips of Maradona in his prime, I see a guy completely dominating the opponent. Put him in the same youth academy Messi went through , take away the drugs and alcohol, and you basically have Messi 1.0. But it’s just impossible to compare. It’s a different game, we have different tactics and even rules. That's hypotheticals, though: disregarding subjective factors, it's hard to argue that Messi is not simply the best football player that's ever lived. Of course, he's had better nutrition and tactics and youth development than his predecessors, but so have all his opponents. At the end of the day, his goal-scoring, chance-creating, passing, and dribbling are all a step beyond anyone else when combined together. "Top Right Messi" is a thing for a reason, after all. This stat is the telling one, for me:  It's not just something that can be put into traditional statistics, but whether it's with goals or assists or tici-tacka or crucial tactical positioning, he will almost always find the way to tilt the match more than any other individual on the pitch can, and I think it's hard to argue that there's anyone in history who could do that as well as him, in so many ways, for so long, against such opposition. |
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Post by oasisserbia on Dec 17, 2022 14:05:58 GMT -5
I don't know why is this so funny 🤣
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 6:33:05 GMT -5
That’s what I mean, this is all subjective. When I watch old clips of Maradona in his prime, I see a guy completely dominating the opponent. Put him in the same youth academy Messi went through , take away the drugs and alcohol, and you basically have Messi 1.0. But it’s just impossible to compare. It’s a different game, we have different tactics and even rules. That's hypotheticals, though: disregarding subjective factors, it's hard to argue that Messi is not simply the best football player that's ever lived. Of course, he's had better nutrition and tactics and youth development than his predecessors, but so have all his opponents. At the end of the day, his goal-scoring, chance-creating, passing, and dribbling are all a step beyond anyone else when combined together. "Top Right Messi" is a thing for a reason, after all. This stat is the telling one, for me: It's not just something that can be put into traditional statistics, but whether it's with goals or assists or tici-tacka or crucial tactical positioning, he will almost always find the way to tilt the match more than any other individual on the pitch can, and I think it's hard to argue that there's anyone in history who could do that as well as him, in so many ways, for so long, against such opposition. Mr.Escapist i said I don’t like GOAT debates and now you dragged me into one SHAME ON YOU SIR. Also your pictures proves that Marco Reus would be the GOAT if he wasn’t injured all the time 😔 |
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Post by WirralRiddler on Dec 18, 2022 7:04:47 GMT -5
Even at youth level, he won the 2005 FIFA World Youth Championship, finishing the tournament with both the Golden Ball and Golden Shoe, and then an Olympic gold medal at the 2008 Summer Olympics. Won the Ballon d'Or a record 7 times. Won the Golden Shoe a record 6 times. He's won everything there is to win except the World Cup, some of his achievements will remain unsurpassed for a very long time, he's already the GOAT in my eyes, no question about it.
Winning the World Cup would just be a very well deserved cherry on top of the cake. Think all the neutrals will be cheering for Messi today, precisely for that reason. Amazing player.
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 9:27:50 GMT -5
If Argentina score the first goal, I still think France have a very good chance of turning it around.
If France score first, I think it will be much harder for Argentina to do the same thing.
That's part of why I think France takes home a 2-1 win. How about a Varane header after 25 minutes, a Mbappe counter attack finish to make it 2-0 in the 68th minute, and a Messi penalty that will be too little and too late in the 86th?
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 10:25:12 GMT -5
Soft Penalty but no way you can overturn this. Just really stupid from Dembele
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 10:40:33 GMT -5
I really wanted Messi to win this final, but not because of a bought referee.
And there came 2-0. Fuck this. I really, really looked forward to this, but if this is how a WORLD CUP FINAL can be settled in the era of VAR, then there is no need for me to watch it.
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 10:44:00 GMT -5
I really wanted Messi to win this final, but not because of a bought referee. And there came 2-0. Fuck this. I really, really looked forward to this, but if this is how a WORLD CUP FINAL can be settled in the era of VAR, then there is no need for me to watch it. Are we watching the same game? Argentina is dominating France |
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 10:56:14 GMT -5
I really wanted Messi to win this final, but not because of a bought referee. And there came 2-0. Fuck this. I really, really looked forward to this, but if this is how a WORLD CUP FINAL can be settled in the era of VAR, then there is no need for me to watch it. Are we watching the same game? Argentina is dominating France Yeah they were. But teams have dominated games before and not won them. Who knows what would have happened if they didn't get/buy that penalty, probably won anyway, but I don't care. That decision ruined everything for me, and I feel nothing but depression and anger right now. In World Cups the general unwritten rule seems to be that the bar for yellow and cards is way higher than usual, but for penalties, at least in this tournament, the exact opposite for some reason. I don't care if you *can* give Di Maria a penalty there, it is a WORLD CUP FINAL and it's 0-0, of course it's not a fucking penalty. |
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 10:57:59 GMT -5
Are we watching the same game? Argentina is dominating France Yeah they were. But teams have dominated games before and not won them. Who knows what would have happened if they didn't get/buy that penalty, probably won anyway, but I don't care. That decision ruined everything for me, and I feel nothing but depression and anger right now. Found the Ronaldo Fan! |
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 11:02:23 GMT -5
Yeah they were. But teams have dominated games before and not won them. Who knows what would have happened if they didn't get/buy that penalty, probably won anyway, but I don't care. That decision ruined everything for me, and I feel nothing but depression and anger right now. Found the Ronaldo Fan! Ronaldo the rapist or the World Cup winner? |
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Post by oasisserbia on Dec 18, 2022 11:03:15 GMT -5
I really wanted Messi to win this final, but not because of a bought referee. And there came 2-0. Fuck this. I really, really looked forward to this, but if this is how a WORLD CUP FINAL can be settled in the era of VAR, then there is no need for me to watch it. What? 🤣   |
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 11:04:41 GMT -5
Ronaldo the rapist or the World Cup winner? Yes! |
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 11:05:12 GMT -5
I really wanted Messi to win this final, but not because of a bought referee. And there came 2-0. Fuck this. I really, really looked forward to this, but if this is how a WORLD CUP FINAL can be settled in the era of VAR, then there is no need for me to watch it. What? 🤣 Does this mean the penalty was correct? |
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 11:05:58 GMT -5
Ronaldo the rapist or the World Cup winner? Yes! I am in large parts a fan of the World Cup winner, not so much of the other one. |
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Post by oasisserbia on Dec 18, 2022 11:09:06 GMT -5
What? 🤣 Does this mean the penalty was correct? It doesn't. But it was. |
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 11:17:58 GMT -5
What? 🤣 Does this mean the penalty was correct? It wasn’t wrong. It wasn’t like when Griezman flopped against Croatia in 2018. |
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 11:34:09 GMT -5
Does this mean the penalty was correct? It wasn’t wrong. It wasn’t like when Griezman flopped against Croatia in 2018. That also sucked. And I don't care if it's "technically not wrong" to give that penalty. In a big game, and especially in the BIGGEST GAME IN THE WORLD, you shouldn't give crazy soft penalties like that. Just like you shouldn't give a red card unless it's REALLY a red card *de Jong, cough*. Like I said before the bar is usually higher at a World Cup for cards, but why not for penalties? It's a mockery. |
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 11:43:56 GMT -5
It wasn’t wrong. It wasn’t like when Griezman flopped against Croatia in 2018. That also sucked. And I don't care if it's "technically not wrong" to give that penalty. In a big game, and especially in the BIGGEST GAME IN THE WORLD, you shouldn't give crazy soft penalties like that. Just like you shouldn't give a red card unless it's REALLY a red card *de Jong, cough*. Like I said before the bar is usually higher at a World Cup for cards, but why not for penalties? It's a mockery. In my opinion penalty’s shouldn’t exist in the first place or should only be given when there was a clear and obvious foul that prevented a goal. Sometimes teams get a penalty just because they had a foot on the line on the outside of the box, at a position where there wouldn’t even be a chance of scoring. But that’s a whole different discussion. There we have the second soft penalty 🚬 |
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Post by RocketMan on Dec 18, 2022 11:44:10 GMT -5
HOLY SHIT 2:2
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Post by Marcos on Dec 18, 2022 11:46:09 GMT -5
THIS IS FOOTBALL!
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Post by funhouse on Dec 18, 2022 11:47:16 GMT -5
LMAO just saw that Dembele tripped him, I just thought it was the light push in the back.
So I guess I was irrational and stupid? Oh well!
And thank God I turned the TV on so so didn't miss *THAT*...
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5