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Post by PepsiNebula on Oct 7, 2020 15:47:45 GMT -5
The fact that they are b-sides is what makes Oasis so mentally brilliant, though Everyone always says this, and I don't understand the reasoning of it; the b-sides would still be brilliant. Let's say we put Listen Up on Definitely Maybe in place of Digsy's Dinner. That doesn't mean songs like Fade Away cease to exist, and Digsy's Dinner would no doubt find a comfortable new home as a hidden gem. Even the worst 90's Oasis album tracks would be celebrated if they were b-sides, and I guarantee that in an alternate universe where The Masterplan was saved for LP3, no-one is going "I don't know, I think it would have been better if that had been a b-side on the Wonderwall single." And if you're talking about the 2000's b-sides, then I just disagree. Those albums badly needed to not be wasting good songs and tracks like Idler's Dream or Let's All Make Believe should never, ever have been thrown off onto singles while tracks like Better Man and I Can See Liar got centre-stage on the albums. Exactly. Being unable to accurately evaluate the quality of your own songs is not some kind of artistic virtue. The occasional bobble is one thing, but it was such a consistent theme for Noel, and it didn't improve the band to have good songs hidden away on singles while lesser songs took up space on albums.
If Oasis hiding away good stuff on b-sides is really part of their appeal, I think it's because people like having insider knowledge about hidden gems that the casual listener doesn't know about or have easy access to (especially in the years before streaming and the deluxe re-issues of the early albums). I think it's ultimately to the detriment of the band's cultural legacy, though.
And particular agreement regarding the 00s albums. Let's All Make Believe had no business whatsoever being a b-side.
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Post by underneaththesky on Oct 7, 2020 16:03:41 GMT -5
save The Masterplan for Be Here Now?
Main Road and Knebworth could have never been the same
which in your dimension is a shame.
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freek
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 177
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Post by freek on Oct 7, 2020 16:10:12 GMT -5
MG is hanging on at #2, but Queen is growing faster. Come on, MG! As much as I would love Moring Glory to get to number one again let's not forget that the Queen album is full of new songs where as Morning Glory is a reissue. But even so it would be nice if it hangs on to the number 2 slot. True, beating Queen is against the ouds, but it would be great! Queen keeps outpacing MG, while Korean act Blackpink is gaining sales at no. 3. Hold on for two more days! |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 7, 2020 16:11:37 GMT -5
I'm 110% ok with how EVERYTHING played out between 1994-1998 album wise. Never questioned how fun BHN was when it was released. Oh sure by late 1998 into 1999 it became hip to rip it to shreds. Noel didn't help that with his comments either.
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Post by bt95 on Oct 7, 2020 16:12:13 GMT -5
The fact that they are b-sides is what makes Oasis so mentally brilliant, though Everyone always says this, and I don't understand the reasoning of it; the b-sides would still be brilliant. Let's say we put Listen Up on Definitely Maybe in place of Digsy's Dinner. That doesn't mean songs like Fade Away cease to exist, and Digsy's Dinner would no doubt find a comfortable new home as a hidden gem. Even the worst 90's Oasis album tracks would be celebrated if they were b-sides, and I guarantee that in an alternate universe where The Masterplan was saved for LP3, no-one is going "I don't know, I think it would have been better if that had been a b-side on the Wonderwall single." And if you're talking about the 2000's b-sides, then I just disagree. Those albums badly needed to not be wasting good songs and tracks like Idler's Dream or Let's All Make Believe should never, ever have been thrown off onto singles while tracks like Better Man and I Can See Liar got centre-stage on the albums. Wasn't talking about 2000s, was more about the 90s. I don't think that any of the albums suffer for not having the b-sides on them and those songs that are b-sides are more famous/equally as famous as most of their singles (HTWA, Talk Tonight, Masterplan, Acquiesce etc). WTSMG, BHN, DM did not suffer for not having those songs on. All that really maybe suffered was in an alternative univserse if they had held the songs back altogether for album three, but then again that means they wouldn't be out there when they were so they may not have the same alure and quality. It is what it is and it's something I love about that era. In fact, there's only really Boy With The Blues and Let's All Make Believe from the 2000s that should have been on an album anyway, IMO. |
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Post by underneaththesky on Oct 7, 2020 16:41:55 GMT -5
save The Masterplan for Be Here Now? Main Road and Knebworth could have never been the same which in your dimension is a shame. Again, how does this make any sense? You can't be disappointed that a song that doesn't exist wasn't played a live gig. If Noel had put Stand By Me on Morning Glory in place of the first instrumental it might have been amazing at Maine Road. People might've been saying things like "Maine Road without that iconic Stand By Me performance?! Get outta here!!". But we're not arsed, because the song wasn't a factor for us then. I'm sure Knebworth would have been just fine with one tracklist change - and Be Here Now could really use that one more great song much more than anything from 95-96. so you're telling me you are making sense?  "but we're not arsed, because the song wasn't a factor for us then"  |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 7, 2020 16:45:41 GMT -5
Everyone always says this, and I don't understand the reasoning of it; the b-sides would still be brilliant. Let's say we put Listen Up on Definitely Maybe in place of Digsy's Dinner. That doesn't mean songs like Fade Away cease to exist, and Digsy's Dinner would no doubt find a comfortable new home as a hidden gem. Even the worst 90's Oasis album tracks would be celebrated if they were b-sides, and I guarantee that in an alternate universe where The Masterplan was saved for LP3, no-one is going "I don't know, I think it would have been better if that had been a b-side on the Wonderwall single." And if you're talking about the 2000's b-sides, then I just disagree. Those albums badly needed to not be wasting good songs and tracks like Idler's Dream or Let's All Make Believe should never, ever have been thrown off onto singles while tracks like Better Man and I Can See Liar got centre-stage on the albums. Exactly. Being unable to accurately evaluate the quality of your own songs is not some kind of artistic virtue. The occasional bobble is one thing, but it was such a consistent theme for Noel, and it didn't improve the band to have good songs hidden away on singles while lesser songs took up space on albums.
If Oasis hiding away good stuff on b-sides is really part of their appeal, I think it's because people like having insider knowledge about hidden gems that the casual listener doesn't know about or have easy access to (especially in the years before streaming and the deluxe re-issues of the early albums). I think it's ultimately to the detriment of the band's cultural legacy, though.
And particular agreement regarding the 00s albums. Let's All Make Believe had no business whatsoever being a b-side.
Yeah, I think a lot of Oasis fans just romanticise Noel's bad decision-making as "part of the magic". Which is silly - Oasis' magic was in having amazing b-sides, not in having songs which obviously shouldn't have been b-sides hidden away on singles. A song like Rockin' Chair or Going Nowhere for instance is fine. They wouldn't really fit on their respective albums and added to the Oasis magic of having great hidden gems. But The Masterplan? Listen Up? Let's All Make Believe? Nah. There's no reason for them not to have been either used or saved, at least not for me. Obviously the original tracklists are still amazing, but a lot of them could have been better IMO. I honestly believe there's a version of reality where Wonderwall was used as a b-side and fans on forums are saying "You don't understand, having songs like that as b-sides was all part of the magic, wouldn't have been the same any other way!". |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Oct 7, 2020 16:47:55 GMT -5
Yeah Noel's comment regarding b-sides is bollocks. It applies to new and casuals fans only. He fucked up, end of story.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Oct 7, 2020 16:53:13 GMT -5
Dyou think the demo of Hello he is talking about is the acoustic one that's knocking about or is there a full band one in the vault somewhere? Almost certainly the acoustic one. That dates from 1993. They may have soundchecked it later (though there is no evidence they ever did) but I doubt they ever did a full band demo. |
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Post by underneaththesky on Oct 7, 2020 17:02:03 GMT -5
Yeah Noel's comment regarding b-sides is bollocks. It applies to new and casuals fans only. He fucked up, end of story. everything is wrong in that sentence. |
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Post by bt95 on Oct 7, 2020 17:11:08 GMT -5
I love that Oasis have great b-sides, but to me they're all just songs.
So I don't care whether they were on the album or not.
If they were on an album, they'd be great. They're not on album, and they're still fucking great.
There is definitely an extra alure/mystique to some of those songs because it's so baffling that they weren't singles etc, but again it adds to the band in that era.
None of the first three albums suffered for not having those songs on them. BHN would obviously have been amazing had those songs been held back, but then again the band might never have hit those heights of BHN if they didn't have such an amazing catalouge of songs already from the first two albums and all their b-sides.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Oct 7, 2020 17:15:58 GMT -5
Yeah Noel's comment regarding b-sides is bollocks. It applies to new and casuals fans only. He fucked up, end of story. everything is wrong in that sentence. Feel free to explain why and I'll happily tell you why you're wrong. |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 7, 2020 17:17:00 GMT -5
It's not either/or. Whichever way you move around the 90's Oasis songs, the b-sides would have been outrageously good. In no possible version of events do they not have the "mystique" or "magic" of having amazing hidden gems. That does not mean we have to blind ourselves with this romanticism of everything working out right in that time. I'll guarantee you this, for instance - if Listen Up had been on Definitely Maybe from the start, and then someone cropped up later saying that they thought Digsy's Dinner should have been on the album instead, you'd all be fucking raging at the suggestion.
And rightly so.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Oct 7, 2020 17:23:38 GMT -5
It's not either/or. Whichever way you move around the 90's Oasis songs, the b-sides would have been outrageously good. In no possible version of events do they not have the "mystique" or "magic" of having amazing hidden gems. That does not mean we have to blind ourselves with this romanticism of everything working out right in that time. I'll guarantee you this, for instance - if Listen Up had been on Definitely Maybe from the start, and then someone cropped up later saying that they thought Digsy's Dinner should have been on the album instead, you'd all be fucking raging at the suggestion. And rightly so. Agreed. But that considers straight swaps. Had they used stuff like Strange Thing for b-sides and saved tunes like Half the World Away, Listen Up, etc. we'd have gotten better albums (with hindsight). |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 7, 2020 17:23:43 GMT -5
For the record, I think the Morning Glory tracklist is perfect as is.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Oct 7, 2020 17:30:25 GMT -5
For the record, I think the Morning Glory tracklist is perfect as is. Conversely I think the Definitely Maybe tracklist is perfect as is ( all things considered). |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 7, 2020 17:30:28 GMT -5
I love that Oasis have great b-sides, but to me they're all just songs. So I don't care whether they were on the album or not. If they were on an album, they'd be great. They're not on album, and they're still fucking great.There is definitely an extra alure/mystique to some of those songs because it's so baffling that they weren't singles etc, but again it adds to the band in that era. None of the first three albums suffered for not having those songs on them. BHN would obviously have been amazing had those songs been held back, but then again the band might never have hit those heights of BHN if they didn't have such an amazing catalouge of songs already from the first two albums and all their b-sides. That is the great irony. All those songs people bang on about that should have been on the albums (Listen Up, Masterplan, Let's All Make Believe, etc) we basically all got during those album periods. Those singles all sold by the boat loads. We all got to enjoy them during their respective time periods/album cycles. Sure it was a tad harder for us American but back in the mid 90s you could find all the Oasis singles in the imports section (remember those folks??), granted incredibly marked up for 4 tracks. |
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Post by Headmaster on Oct 7, 2020 19:31:08 GMT -5
All this talk about b-sides and album tracks, it could have been worse, Noel could have pick Bonehead's Bank Holiday instead of Champagne Supernova or It's Better People instead of Wonderwall ha ha ha.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 7, 2020 19:49:55 GMT -5
All this talk about b-sides and album tracks, it could have been worse, Noel could have pick Bonehead's Bank Holiday instead of Champagne Supernova or It's Better People instead of Wonderwall ha ha ha. AINT GOT MUFFINS! |
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Post by underneaththesky on Oct 7, 2020 20:51:56 GMT -5
everything is wrong in that sentence. Feel free to explain why and I'll happily tell you why you're wrong. END OF STORY |
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Post by underneaththesky on Oct 7, 2020 20:53:54 GMT -5
It's not either/or. Whichever way you move around the 90's Oasis songs, the b-sides would have been outrageously good. In no possible version of events do they not have the "mystique" or "magic" of having amazing hidden gems. That does not mean we have to blind ourselves with this romanticism of everything working out right in that time. I'll guarantee you this, for instance - if Listen Up had been on Definitely Maybe from the start, and then someone cropped up later saying that they thought Digsy's Dinner should have been on the album instead, you'd all be fucking raging at the suggestion. And rightly so. you are fucking raging. get some rest, MAGIC man |
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Post by Manualex on Oct 7, 2020 21:50:17 GMT -5
Feel free to explain why and I'll happily tell you why you're wrong. END OF STORY The legacy of Oasis as a pop/rock band phenomenom is only bigger because they had the two perfect albums and then every 3 months from April 94 to 96 had 3 new songs to look after if you bought their singles, sure some live versions and covers were in there but they werent the majority of the b-sides material. And with the chasing the sun reissues we saw that there was even more quality material in the vaults that wasnt up to their standards that other bands would kill for (Comin on Strong/Setting Sun, Untitled and If Shadows). And thats not even telling the story of the band as from the live performing point of view. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Oct 8, 2020 1:55:26 GMT -5
Feel free to explain why and I'll happily tell you why you're wrong. END OF STORY So " everything" was wrong in that post because of the last three words or are you only part answering my question? |
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Post by beentherenow on Oct 8, 2020 5:11:22 GMT -5
I’ll give my two cents in for what it’s worth. Noel himself contradicts himself on this matter; one interview he’ll say having those songs as b-sides makes Oasis in the 90’s what they were. The next time he’ll say he regrets not saving some of them for Be Here Now.
I personally believe they only made 2 major errors. The other are subjective. Does swapping Listen Up for Up in the Sky, change the success of Definitely Maybe? No. Does having Rockin Chair in Morning Glory make that album even more successful? No. One could argue they’d make them better albums but everyone has different opinions. I don’t like Roll With It or She’s Electric and would swap them for Rockin Chair and Acquiesce but I know loads of people who love the aforementioned songs, so who’s to say who’s right.
However considering The Masterplan was written after the Morning Glory sessions and after many songs which ended up on Be Here Now. That is a huge misjudgment to write, record that and think it should only be a b-side, his ego must have been through the roof to think songs like that should be treated as such. That on Be Here Now makes a huge difference.
Likewise Let’s All Make Believe not being on SOTSOG is completely unjustifiable and baffling. Easily in the top 5 songs he’s written for that album, it was recorded perfectly and had phenomenal performances on it but was left off for PYMWYMI?! Just cannot fathom what Noel was thinking. That on SOTSOG in place of that song elevated it to another level. The album would probably still have sold peanuts but would be an infinitely better album
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Post by morning_rain on Oct 8, 2020 5:36:11 GMT -5
I ordered the 25th anniversary cassette and my order seems to have been "received at Deutsche Post Mailtermal" on october 3, which is weird because I live in Spain. There hasn't been any changes in the status since then and I'm a bit worried. Anyone else experiencing someting similar?
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5