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Post by defmaybe00 on Jan 31, 2021 14:01:57 GMT -5
Well, to be honest, don't think Liam has written anything unforgettable during his Oasis tenure
I'm Outta Time is probably the closest he got to Noel's level
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 31, 2021 14:23:29 GMT -5
Well, to be honest, don't think Liam has written anything unforgettable during his Oasis tenure I'm Outta Time is probably the closest he got to Noel's level Songbird is fantastic. This was true in 2002 and it is true in 2021.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jan 31, 2021 17:00:32 GMT -5
Well, to be honest, don't think Liam has written anything unforgettable during his Oasis tenure I'm Outta Time is probably the closest he got to Noel's level Songbird is fantastic. This was true in 2002 and it is true in 2021. I like it, don't rate it as highly as many do tho
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Post by tiger40 on Jan 31, 2021 17:23:01 GMT -5
I've always liked Songbird and it's certainly one of Liam's best songs from 2002 along with Born On A Different Cloud and Guess God Thinks I'm Able. But I still think that the latter song is Liam's best from his Oasis days.
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Post by Bonehead's Barber on Feb 1, 2021 7:09:31 GMT -5
Songbird is a lovely tune but I think context is important...
Had Noel written it we'd slate it. Fact.
The fact that Liam wrote it (a drunken shagger who would never normally show off his inner softie) makes it what it is. I love Songbird but I think the fact that Liam wrote it makes it better.
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Post by matt on Feb 1, 2021 7:41:45 GMT -5
There you are, Mojo February 2019: He's harsh on Songbird there but let's be honest, he's spot on. His criticisms there only really reflect the tone of the conversation so I don't think it's fair to berate him. He seems regretful that latter Oasis albums had so much filler. The most revealing thing there is Noel finally admitting what we already know about those latter Oasis album. If Oasis were ever to reunite, then surely he'd know that there's no way he could go back to letting the others write (happy with the odd Liam contribution though). It would sure be hypocritical.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Feb 1, 2021 8:13:30 GMT -5
There you are, Mojo February 2019: He's harsh on Songbird there but let's be honest, he's spot on. His criticisms there only really reflect the tone of the conversation so I don't think it's fair to berate him. He seems regretful that latter Oasis albums had so much filler. The most revealing thing there is Noel finally admitting what we already know about those latter Oasis album. If Oasis were ever to reunite, then surely he'd know that there's no way he could go back to letting the others write (happy with the odd Liam contribution though). It would sure be hypocritical. He's admitting he didn't have the songs. It's harsh to to get to down on Andy and Gem about the contributions they made to Oasis when the primary songwriter is no longer capable of carrying an album on his own. They were asked and so they did. Let me be clear about it though, saying the above isn't a criticism of Noel. Precious few songwriters maintain a high level throughout their career, even fewer have a purple patch like Noel had at the start of his.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Feb 1, 2021 8:23:38 GMT -5
He's harsh on Songbird there but let's be honest, he's spot on. His criticisms there only really reflect the tone of the conversation so I don't think it's fair to berate him. He seems regretful that latter Oasis albums had so much filler. The most revealing thing there is Noel finally admitting what we already know about those latter Oasis album. If Oasis were ever to reunite, then surely he'd know that there's no way he could go back to letting the others write (happy with the odd Liam contribution though). It would sure be hypocritical. He's admitting he didn't have the songs. It's harsh to to get to down on Andy and Gem about the contributions they made to Oasis when the primary songwriter is no longer capable of carrying an album on his own. They were asked and so they did. Let me be clear about it though, saying the above isn't a criticism of Noel. Precious few songwriters maintain a high level throughout their career, even fewer have a purple patch like Noel had at the start of his. He says it himself he doesn't regret it because he was going through a period when things didn't come at him like at the start or as they are now My take is that they shouldn't have made it a planned thing, like you write half the record I write the other half, especially as time went by and Noel seemed like he was coming out of that slump from DBTT to DOYS I see Heathen Chemistry as a *necessary evil* in the Oasis path, and I get keeping the door open for others to contribute to the songwriting, but I don't think they truly needed to shove in Gem's songs just for the sake of being democratic If LAG come in with a tune and it's Turn Up The Sun, or Songbird, or I'm Outta Time then fair enough, there's no reason to keep them aside, but we didn't need The Nature Of Reality
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Post by Aman on Feb 1, 2021 8:47:40 GMT -5
Never seen that Mojo interview before, seems alright.
To my acknowledge it's one of the very few times (the 1st time?) he's actually said the 2000s stuff was naff. (Specifically LAG tunes)
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Post by tomlivesforever on Feb 1, 2021 9:50:30 GMT -5
He's admitting he didn't have the songs. It's harsh to to get to down on Andy and Gem about the contributions they made to Oasis when the primary songwriter is no longer capable of carrying an album on his own. They were asked and so they did. Let me be clear about it though, saying the above isn't a criticism of Noel. Precious few songwriters maintain a high level throughout their career, even fewer have a purple patch like Noel had at the start of his. He says it himself he doesn't regret it because he was going through a period when things didn't come at him like at the start or as they are now My take is that they shouldn't have made it a planned thing, like you write half the record I write the other half, especially as time went by and Noel seemed like he was coming out of that slump from DBTT to DOYS I see Heathen Chemistry as a *necessary evil* in the Oasis path, and I get keeping the door open for others to contribute to the songwriting, but I don't think they truly needed to shove in Gem's songs just for the sake of being democratic If LAG come in with a tune and it's Turn Up The Sun, or Songbird, or I'm Outta Time then fair enough, there's no reason to keep them aside, but we didn't need The Nature Of Reality Noel isn't saying there that he was putting them in for the sake of being democratic? He's saying he couldn't come up with the amount of quality songs needed for an album cycle so asked for contributions. The Nature of Reality might not have been included had RM and and the other one (can't remember the name) been added.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Feb 1, 2021 9:57:11 GMT -5
He says it himself he doesn't regret it because he was going through a period when things didn't come at him like at the start or as they are now My take is that they shouldn't have made it a planned thing, like you write half the record I write the other half, especially as time went by and Noel seemed like he was coming out of that slump from DBTT to DOYS I see Heathen Chemistry as a *necessary evil* in the Oasis path, and I get keeping the door open for others to contribute to the songwriting, but I don't think they truly needed to shove in Gem's songs just for the sake of being democratic If LAG come in with a tune and it's Turn Up The Sun, or Songbird, or I'm Outta Time then fair enough, there's no reason to keep them aside, but we didn't need The Nature Of Reality Noel isn't saying there that he was putting them in for the sake of being democratic? He's saying he couldn't come up with the amount of quality songs needed for an album cycle so asked for contributions. The Nature of Reality might not have been included had RM and and the other one (can't remember the name) been added. I'm not saying he said it, that's why I wrote "my take on it is" I think it became such an automatic thing for them as the time went by that I think Noel himself, as he was regaining form, started approaching it with the mindset that he needed to come up with 5-6 quality songs and if he had more he'd save it for the next time Put Come On Outside and Record Machine on DOYS instead of Ain't Got Nothing and The Nature Of Reality and it's a much better and consistent album, the others are still contributing and the flow's still there By the way I'm not saying it's the other guys' fault, I just think they (mostly Noel) could've still been democriting while working things out in a more flexible way
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Post by tiger40 on Feb 1, 2021 13:51:13 GMT -5
I think that Andy Bell had better songs than The Nature Of Reality but of course Noel being Noel he decided to go with that song rather than another song which Andy had written. But I never really had a problem with Liam, Gem and Andy writing songs in Oasis but tunes like A Quick Peep we could've done without.
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Post by The Thieving Magpie on Feb 1, 2021 14:47:11 GMT -5
Noel isn't saying there that he was putting them in for the sake of being democratic? He's saying he couldn't come up with the amount of quality songs needed for an album cycle so asked for contributions. The Nature of Reality might not have been included had RM and and the other one (can't remember the name) been added. I'm not saying he said it, that's why I wrote "my take on it is" I think it became such an automatic thing for them as the time went by that I think Noel himself, as he was regaining form, started approaching it with the mindset that he needed to come up with 5-6 quality songs and if he had more he'd save it for the next time Put Come On Outside and Record Machine on DOYS instead of Ain't Got Nothing and The Nature Of Reality and it's a much better and consistent album, the others are still contributing and the flow's still there By the way I'm not saying it's the other guys' fault, I just think they (mostly Noel) could've still been democriting while working things out in a more flexible way They could put I Believe in All, Boys with the Blues too.
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Post by drummert5 on Feb 1, 2021 16:36:41 GMT -5
I think that Andy Bell had better songs than The Nature Of Reality but of course Noel being Noel he decided to go with that song rather than another song which Andy had written. But I never really had a problem with Liam, Gem and Andy writing songs in Oasis but tunes like A Quick Peep we could've done without. Wasn’t Four Letter Word already floating around by this time? Picking NoR over that is criminal.
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Post by mossy on Feb 1, 2021 17:20:59 GMT -5
I think that Andy Bell had better songs than The Nature Of Reality but of course Noel being Noel he decided to go with that song rather than another song which Andy had written. But I never really had a problem with Liam, Gem and Andy writing songs in Oasis but tunes like A Quick Peep we could've done without. Wasn’t Four Letter Word already floating around by this time? Picking NoR over that is criminal. This just reminded me that Flick Of The Finger was first attempted with Death In Vegas. Hope those sessions see the light of day at some point. X
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Post by tiger40 on Feb 1, 2021 17:28:29 GMT -5
I think that Andy Bell had better songs than The Nature Of Reality but of course Noel being Noel he decided to go with that song rather than another song which Andy had written. But I never really had a problem with Liam, Gem and Andy writing songs in Oasis but tunes like A Quick Peep we could've done without. Wasn’t Four Letter Word already floating around by this time? Picking NoR over that is criminal. Yes, I think that it was but sadly it was never used on an Oasis album and it should have been. But I'm glad that Four Letter Word finally got released even if it was on Beady Eye's Different Gear Still Speading album.
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Post by garylineker on Feb 1, 2021 22:20:09 GMT -5
Songbird is a lovely tune but I think context is important... Had Noel written it we'd slate it. Fact. The fact that Liam wrote it (a drunken shagger who would never normally show off his inner softie) makes it what it is. I love Songbird but I think the fact that Liam wrote it makes it better. Nonsense
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Post by garylineker on Feb 1, 2021 22:23:37 GMT -5
I think that Andy Bell had better songs than The Nature Of Reality but of course Noel being Noel he decided to go with that song rather than another song which Andy had written. But I never really had a problem with Liam, Gem and Andy writing songs in Oasis but tunes like A Quick Peep we could've done without. Wasn’t Four Letter Word already floating around by this time? Picking NoR over that is criminal. I'm glad it was used as a big opening track for Beady Eye rather than stuck on the back end of Dig Out Your Soul and probably never played live. Boy With The Blues was the opposite of this and got unforgivably spunked away as a DOYS fucking bonus track. Not even a b-side when we got like 1 proper b-side in the whole of the DOYS era. I'd love to know Noel's thinking behind this. A band so renowned for their b-sides sticking them on a boxset and giving the singles even more reason to underperform. Noel already said the album lacked big singles, then does that? Ludicrous.
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Post by garylineker on Feb 1, 2021 22:36:12 GMT -5
There you are, Mojo February 2019: He's harsh on Songbird there but let's be honest, he's spot on. His criticisms there only really reflect the tone of the conversation so I don't think it's fair to berate him. He seems regretful that latter Oasis albums had so much filler. The most revealing thing there is Noel finally admitting what we already know about those latter Oasis album. If Oasis were ever to reunite, then surely he'd know that there's no way he could go back to letting the others write (happy with the odd Liam contribution though). It would sure be hypocritical. This is typical Noel really though isn't it? Depends what day you catch him on with shit like this. he put Songbird on Stop The Clocks and apart from this particular interview where he's clearly in nobhead mode, he's always regarded it as one of Oasis best songs. I struggle to see how releasing I'm Outta Time as a single was plugging holes or filling a purpose though, strange thing to say even for Noel. Noel letting the rest of the band write songs, then the first interview outside of Oasis start slating them all as not songwriters was just typical. Not only are you admitting you've not given a shit about the true quality of what you're putting out but you're showing how much you regard your fanbase too. This of course is assuming he's being truthful. In reality he probably thought the others songs were good and was only saying this because they all went to Beady Eye and of course telling everyone enough that none of them can write songs used to make a certain amount of the Oasis fanbase listen. He really has lost the ability in recent years to make his opinions resonate to the fans. I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. But back to the songwriting issue, he never even used to pick the others best songs. As was proven on countless occasions. Andy got A Quick Peep used as an example of his best song when he joined? A Quick fucking Peep. Then Thank You For The Good times ended up a b-side. Gem was sitting on The Roller for 10 years, Liam had Boy With The Blues turned down for Aint Got Nothin? The cynic in me would suggest all of this was about Noel Gallagher. Not only does writing less allow him to save songs for the inevitable solo album, but picking the others "best" songs for the album allows his efforts to juxtapose against the worse songs and keep him as The Chief.
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Post by matt on Feb 2, 2021 6:48:50 GMT -5
He's harsh on Songbird there but let's be honest, he's spot on. His criticisms there only really reflect the tone of the conversation so I don't think it's fair to berate him. He seems regretful that latter Oasis albums had so much filler. The most revealing thing there is Noel finally admitting what we already know about those latter Oasis album. If Oasis were ever to reunite, then surely he'd know that there's no way he could go back to letting the others write (happy with the odd Liam contribution though). It would sure be hypocritical. This is typical Noel really though isn't it? Depends what day you catch him on with shit like this. he put Songbird on Stop The Clocks and apart from this particular interview where he's clearly in nobhead mode, he's always regarded it as one of Oasis best songs. I struggle to see how releasing I'm Outta Time as a single was plugging holes or filling a purpose though, strange thing to say even for Noel. Noel letting the rest of the band write songs, then the first interview outside of Oasis start slating them all as not songwriters was just typical. Not only are you admitting you've not given a shit about the true quality of what you're putting out but you're showing how much you regard your fanbase too. This of course is assuming he's being truthful. In reality he probably thought the others songs were good and was only saying this because they all went to Beady Eye and of course telling everyone enough that none of them can write songs used to make a certain amount of the Oasis fanbase listen. He really has lost the ability in recent years to make his opinions resonate to the fans. I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. But back to the songwriting issue, he never even used to pick the others best songs. As was proven on countless occasions. Andy got A Quick Peep used as an example of his best song when he joined? A Quick fucking Peep. Then Thank You For The Good times ended up a b-side. Gem was sitting on The Roller for 10 years, Liam had Boy With The Blues turned down for Aint Got Nothin?
The cynic in me would suggest all of this was about Noel Gallagher. Not only does writing less allow him to save songs for the inevitable solo album, but picking the others "best" songs for the album allows his efforts to juxtapose against the worse songs and keep him as The Chief. Thank You For The Good Times is what a high school band would write in their attempt to rip off Some Might Say. The Roller is Instant Karma (Teletubbies Remix) while Boy With The Blues is a good song, but probably got chucked off DOYS for pacing (Andy & Gem's plodding contributions weighing the second half down). Nature of Reality thrown on that album as it adhered to the non-descript 'groove' concept that Dave Sardy wanted. Let's be fair on Noel, they barely gave him anything to work with and that's proven in the critical and commercial failure of Beady Eye. The reality is Noel probably did think it was all shit, but he was past the point of caring as evidenced by the half arsed albums. That's his responsibility. If that's the case, then it's probably for the best that Oasis split.
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Post by garylineker on Feb 2, 2021 6:58:17 GMT -5
This is typical Noel really though isn't it? Depends what day you catch him on with shit like this. he put Songbird on Stop The Clocks and apart from this particular interview where he's clearly in nobhead mode, he's always regarded it as one of Oasis best songs. I struggle to see how releasing I'm Outta Time as a single was plugging holes or filling a purpose though, strange thing to say even for Noel. Noel letting the rest of the band write songs, then the first interview outside of Oasis start slating them all as not songwriters was just typical. Not only are you admitting you've not given a shit about the true quality of what you're putting out but you're showing how much you regard your fanbase too. This of course is assuming he's being truthful. In reality he probably thought the others songs were good and was only saying this because they all went to Beady Eye and of course telling everyone enough that none of them can write songs used to make a certain amount of the Oasis fanbase listen. He really has lost the ability in recent years to make his opinions resonate to the fans. I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. But back to the songwriting issue, he never even used to pick the others best songs. As was proven on countless occasions. Andy got A Quick Peep used as an example of his best song when he joined? A Quick fucking Peep. Then Thank You For The Good times ended up a b-side. Gem was sitting on The Roller for 10 years, Liam had Boy With The Blues turned down for Aint Got Nothin?
The cynic in me would suggest all of this was about Noel Gallagher. Not only does writing less allow him to save songs for the inevitable solo album, but picking the others "best" songs for the album allows his efforts to juxtapose against the worse songs and keep him as The Chief. Thank You For The Good Times is what a high school band would write in their attempt to rip off Some Might Say. The Roller is Instant Karma (Teletubbies Remix) while Boy With The Blues is a good song, but probably got chucked off DOYS for pacing (Andy & Gem's plodding contributions weighing the second half down). Nature of Reality thrown on that album as it adhered to the non-descript 'groove' concept that Dave Sardy wanted. Let's be fair on Noel, they barely gave him anything to work with and that's proven in the critical and commercial failure of Beady Eye. The reality is Noel probably did think it was all shit, but he was past the point of caring as evidenced by the half arsed albums. That's his responsibility. If that's the case, then it's probably for the best that Oasis split. I think you're being harsh. Beady Eye's first album wasnt critically bashed. It actually got pretty good reviews until Noels press conference in my opinion. I think Noel certainly did get it wrong with what he picked from them to go on albums, but I suppose to play devils advocate he did the same with his own material more often than not. I remember listening to DGSS for the first time and certainly thinking Four Letter Word, The Roller and Morning Son etc were a lot better than what had been served up by LAG for the latter Oasis albums. I see more and more comments about how people are still listening to them too, i think time will be kinder to Beady Eye and I certainly don't hold the views you do for them. Each to their own though of course and I do hear what you're saying. Good to have a different perspective to what Noel was doing.
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Post by matt on Feb 2, 2021 7:04:41 GMT -5
Thank You For The Good Times is what a high school band would write in their attempt to rip off Some Might Say. The Roller is Instant Karma (Teletubbies Remix) while Boy With The Blues is a good song, but probably got chucked off DOYS for pacing (Andy & Gem's plodding contributions weighing the second half down). Nature of Reality thrown on that album as it adhered to the non-descript 'groove' concept that Dave Sardy wanted. Let's be fair on Noel, they barely gave him anything to work with and that's proven in the critical and commercial failure of Beady Eye. The reality is Noel probably did think it was all shit, but he was past the point of caring as evidenced by the half arsed albums. That's his responsibility. If that's the case, then it's probably for the best that Oasis split. I think you're being harsh. Beady Eye's first album wasnt critically bashed. It actually got pretty good reviews until Noels press conference in my opinion. I think Noel certainly did get it wrong with what he picked from them to go on albums, but I suppose to play devils advocate he did the same with his own material more often than not. I remember listening to DGSS for the first time and certainly thinking Four Letter Word, The Roller and Morning Son etc were a lot better than what had been served up by LAG for the latter Oasis albums. I see more and more comments about how people are still listening to them too, i think time will be kinder to Beady Eye and I certainly don't hold the views you do for them. Each to their own though of course and I do hear what you're saying. Good to have a different perspective to what Noel was doing. I agree a good number of Beady Eye songs were much better than the dross they served on Oasis albums. Good songs. But still, they weren't up the level required for Oasis. Barely anything was, unless we accept the mediocrity of the 2000s. Liam and Noel's solo albums put Beady Eye to shame with far far superior song quality. Even for Liam, I can pretty much say that mostly everything he has written for his solo album was far better than anything he'd done in Beady Eye. Greedy Soul, Bold (better than anything he's done in Oasis IMO) etc - far far greater, and more modern in its production values than the retro stuck in the past Beady Eye. It's not a question of marketing or anything as to why Liam is more successful solo - nothing in Beady Eye comes close to the quality of this song or performance.
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Post by garylineker on Feb 2, 2021 8:46:55 GMT -5
I think you're being harsh. Beady Eye's first album wasnt critically bashed. It actually got pretty good reviews until Noels press conference in my opinion. I think Noel certainly did get it wrong with what he picked from them to go on albums, but I suppose to play devils advocate he did the same with his own material more often than not. I remember listening to DGSS for the first time and certainly thinking Four Letter Word, The Roller and Morning Son etc were a lot better than what had been served up by LAG for the latter Oasis albums. I see more and more comments about how people are still listening to them too, i think time will be kinder to Beady Eye and I certainly don't hold the views you do for them. Each to their own though of course and I do hear what you're saying. Good to have a different perspective to what Noel was doing. I agree a good number of Beady Eye songs were much better than the dross they served on Oasis albums. Good songs. But still, they weren't up the level required for Oasis. Barely anything was, unless we accept the mediocrity of the 2000s. Liam and Noel's solo albums put Beady Eye to shame with far far superior song quality. Even for Liam, I can pretty much say that mostly everything he has written for his solo album was far better than anything he'd done in Beady Eye. Greedy Soul, Bold (better than anything he's done in Oasis IMO) etc - far far greater, and more modern in its production values than the retro stuck in the past Beady Eye. It's not a question of marketing or anything as to why Liam is more successful solo - nothing in Beady Eye comes close to the quality of this song or performance. Don't disagree with anything you've said. There were elements of Beady Eye i preferred. Liam's style for one was much more like a Rockstar. I hate the Stone Island boring as fuck look. Maybe it's been a weight issue that's dictated it but wearing the same black jacket for a year was just plain weird. I did admire 4 lads just making their own music and going bravely (if naively) under a new name and starting again. It certainly felt more real than the process of how Liam's last album was made, and i'd certainly rather live in a world where he didn't have to play the game as much as he does to be successful. But having said that i'm just glad he is doing well and he didn't end up how quite a few seemingly wanted him to end up on here. I think he certainly has a better ear for melody than Andy and Gem ever seemed to. The songs he did for Beady Eye certainly could have done with help to give them the structure his solo songs have. Some of what he has done solo isn't any better imo but overall it is. I think Beady Eye starting as Liam Gallagher's (insert name) certainly does a lot better. Especially if they did what Noel did and played half an Oasis set live. I think an Oasis 2.0 was the way forward if they wanted to retain the popularity to a good enough level. It was admirable they didn't do that though.
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Post by captaincrankshaft on Feb 2, 2021 11:19:02 GMT -5
Wasn’t Four Letter Word already floating around by this time? Picking NoR over that is criminal. I'm glad it was used as a big opening track for Beady Eye rather than stuck on the back end of Dig Out Your Soul and probably never played live. Boy With The Blues was the opposite of this and got unforgivably spunked away as a DOYS fucking bonus track. Not even a b-side when we got like 1 proper b-side in the whole of the DOYS era. I'd love to know Noel's thinking behind this. A band so renowned for their b-sides sticking them on a boxset and giving the singles even more reason to underperform. Noel already said the album lacked big singles, then does that? Ludicrous. Yeah, Four Letter Word is a blindingly great song. As is Boy With The Blues. I remember being surprised at how good it was tbh. Should never have been left off DOYS in my opinion. Come to think of it, The Roller and most of DGSS is better than Andy and Gems tunes on DOYS. That second half of the LP is terrible apart from Soldier On. I think maybe Noel had lost a bit of interest by then. Anyway, Gary, I still remember when you shat yourself on the pitch. Cant remember whether it was in Italy or Mexico but I hope you haven’t had any further problems ‘downstairs’ after this rather unfortunate event.
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Post by matt on Feb 2, 2021 14:35:34 GMT -5
I'm glad it was used as a big opening track for Beady Eye rather than stuck on the back end of Dig Out Your Soul and probably never played live. Boy With The Blues was the opposite of this and got unforgivably spunked away as a DOYS fucking bonus track. Not even a b-side when we got like 1 proper b-side in the whole of the DOYS era. I'd love to know Noel's thinking behind this. A band so renowned for their b-sides sticking them on a boxset and giving the singles even more reason to underperform. Noel already said the album lacked big singles, then does that? Ludicrous. Yeah, Four Letter Word is a blindingly great song. As is Boy With The Blues. I remember being surprised at how good it was tbh. Should never have been left off DOYS in my opinion. Come to think of it, The Roller and most of DGSS is better than Andy and Gems tunes on DOYS. That second half of the LP is terrible apart from Soldier On. I think maybe Noel had lost a bit of interest by then. Anyway, Gary, I still remember when you shat yourself on the pitch. Cant remember whether it was in Italy or Mexico but I hope you haven’t had any further problems ‘downstairs’ after this rather unfortunate event. Italia 90 I believe.
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