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Post by tiger40 on Apr 23, 2022 13:39:09 GMT -5
So Boris Johnson is to face an investigation by the Commons Committee over claims he mislead Parliament. Good and so he should. Seems to be more of his backbenchers turning in him now. Dead man walking. If they get thrashed in the local elections, heβs gone. Yeah, you're right about his own backbenchers. But as for the local elections, there isn't any around here this year so I won't be able to vote. However, I wish that there was a general election this year and then we might have been able to get rid of this government once and for all.
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Post by batfink30 on May 16, 2022 8:25:46 GMT -5
Has anyone not had Covid yet? We all ended up with it in March through our kid who brought it home from nursery. It was pretty much gone in a few days and wasn't bad at all. It's been pretty nice cutting about crowds etc for the past couple of months with a bit of immunity (given we've had 3 vaxs + infection). I literally don't know anyone now who hasn't had it.
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Post by joladella on May 16, 2022 8:37:53 GMT -5
Has anyone not had Covid yet? We all ended up with it in March through our kid who brought it home from nursery. It was pretty much gone in a few days and wasn't bad at all. It's been pretty nice cutting about crowds etc for the past couple of months with a bit of immunity (given we've had 3 vaxs + infection). I literally don't know anyone now who hasn't had it. I never had it (knock on wood) and I actually know lots of people who never had it, family, colleagues and friends. Might be a coincidence, but we did have strict rules here, especially in my home town.
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Post by batfink30 on May 16, 2022 8:39:52 GMT -5
Has anyone not had Covid yet? We all ended up with it in March through our kid who brought it home from nursery. It was pretty much gone in a few days and wasn't bad at all. It's been pretty nice cutting about crowds etc for the past couple of months with a bit of immunity (given we've had 3 vaxs + infection). I literally don't know anyone now who hasn't had it. I never had it (knock on wood) and I actually know lots of people who never had it, family, colleagues and friends. Might be a coincidence, but we did have strict rules here, especially in my home town. We had one of the strictest lockdowns and restrictions in Europe if iirc. Omicron changed everything,it exploded when that came along. At one point 1 in 8 had it in my local area. Not much you can do, I expect to get it multiple times now.
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Post by welshylad on May 16, 2022 9:46:46 GMT -5
Has anyone not had Covid yet? We all ended up with it in March through our kid who brought it home from nursery. It was pretty much gone in a few days and wasn't bad at all. It's been pretty nice cutting about crowds etc for the past couple of months with a bit of immunity (given we've had 3 vaxs + infection). I literally don't know anyone now who hasn't had it. I never had it (knock on wood) and I actually know lots of people who never had it, family, colleagues and friends. Might be a coincidence, but we did have strict rules here, especially in my home town. You think you've never had it. I had it, wouldn't of known unless I went for a PCR test. Didn't have one symptom
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 10:18:00 GMT -5
I never had it (knock on wood) and I actually know lots of people who never had it, family, colleagues and friends. Might be a coincidence, but we did have strict rules here, especially in my home town. You think you've never had it. I had it, wouldn't of known unless I went for a PCR test. Didn't have one symptom I can't think of any other similar respiratory illness that you don't know you've had unless you've had a test for it. it's really always been one of the definitions of an illness, that it causes one or more of a range of symptoms. weird innit?
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Post by joladella on May 16, 2022 11:56:55 GMT -5
I never had it (knock on wood) and I actually know lots of people who never had it, family, colleagues and friends. Might be a coincidence, but we did have strict rules here, especially in my home town. You think you've never had it. I had it, wouldn't of known unless I went for a PCR test. Didn't have one symptom Of course, I might have. But then, I might not have! Twice I got real close (that I know of) and kept pcr testing negative.
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Post by The Invisible Sun on May 16, 2022 12:28:54 GMT -5
I think I had it in February of 2020, one month before it entered the U.S and really began to spread, at least from a oral testing perspective. We know it was already here at that point and widespread because of tests conducted on waste samples collected from city sewers in months prior to March 2020.
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Post by tiger40 on May 16, 2022 13:05:48 GMT -5
I see that Korea (or part of the country) are now in lockdown after Covid cases were found there for the first time.
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 16, 2022 16:00:55 GMT -5
You think you've never had it. I had it, wouldn't of known unless I went for a PCR test. Didn't have one symptom I can't think of any other similar respiratory illness that you don't know you've had unless you've had a test for it. it's really always been one of the definitions of an illness, that it causes one or more of a range of symptoms. weird innit?
Sorry, wasn't planning to write here today, but this is not true. It only seems that way because we donβt regularly test people for viruses but when you do, asymptomatic infections are very, very common, and occur with all respiratory viruses (of which there are many!)
In one study done in New York City, people were tested weekly for viruses, and asymptomatic infection rates exceeded 70% for nearly all the viruses they tested for! It is generally believed that 1 in every 3 cases of influenza is asymptomatic which is also part of why the flu can, like Covid-19, be a very dangerous, fast-spreading disease, especially when strains come along that are more deadly. How would you know if you've had influenza if you're asymptomatic? You don't unless you get a PCR test. Same as Covid. Same as other viruses, respiratory or otherwise. It's just that you don't care if you had the flu or adenovirus or rhinovirus so long as you're not sick.
The goal of a virus is to reproduce, not to make a person sick. If it can reproduce without making a person sick, the virus is still successful. The problem with Covid-19 (in its current form) is that it has two spectrums β one where it causes a very large amount of asymptomatic cases that allows it to spread wildly and another where it can cause in inadequately vaccinated populations a very large amount death and permanent harm (which most viruses donβt on this scale). If it only did one or the other of these, we would not be where we are today with so much social division caused by a disease.
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Post by globe on May 16, 2022 16:23:36 GMT -5
I think I had it in February of 2020, one month before it entered the U.S and really began to spread, at least from a oral testing perspective. We know it was already here at that point and widespread because of tests conducted on waste samples collected from city sewers in months prior to March 2020. Aye same here. What we thought was flu went around everyone at my work in Feb 2020. I was floored for about 5 days. Never tested positive for Covid yet though and Iβve done lots of tests.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2022 16:54:47 GMT -5
I can't think of any other similar respiratory illness that you don't know you've had unless you've had a test for it. it's really always been one of the definitions of an illness, that it causes one or more of a range of symptoms. weird innit?
Sorry, wasn't planning to write here today, but this is not true. It only seems that way because we donβt regularly test people for viruses but when you do, asymptomatic infections are very, very common, and occur with all respiratory viruses (of which there are many!)
In one study done in New York City, people were tested weekly for viruses, and asymptomatic infection rates exceeded 70% for nearly all the viruses they tested for! It is generally believed that 1 in every 3 cases of influenza is asymptomatic which is also part of why the flu can, like Covid-19, be a very dangerous, fast-spreading disease, especially when strains come along that are more deadly. How would you know if you've had influenza if you're asymptomatic? You don't unless you get a PCR test. Same as Covid. Same as other viruses, respiratory or otherwise. It's just that you don't care if you had the flu or adenovirus or rhinovirus so long as you're not sick.
The goal of a virus is to reproduce, not to make a person sick. If it can reproduce without making a person sick, the virus is still successful. The problem with Covid-19 (in its current form) is that it has two spectrums β one where it causes a very large amount of asymptomatic cases that allows it to spread wildly and another where it can cause in inadequately vaccinated populations a very large amount death and permanent harm (which most viruses donβt on this scale). If it only did one or the other of these, we would not be where we are today with so much social division caused by a disease.
that's interesting research stuff!
I do have concerns about the validity of mass-testing with PCR though, as so many variables such as the number of cycles and the specifics of what is being tested for can cause a high degree of false positives.
My main thought is a pretty 'common sense' one though - the 'symptoms' of a virus are generally the mechanisms by which they spread - a swollen throat is due to cells actually being infected and getting bigger/bursting, coughing due to airways being attacked to the point of reacting by expelling mucus, nasal passages getting inflamed and causing sneezing - all these are how the virus is then expelled into the air to infect someone close by (or sometimes by fomites in some diseases). If a disease is 'asymptomatic' by definition it can't be spread by that person in any of these ways. And in order for the viral load to be sufficient to cause spread infection, symptoms would be expected.
the other end of the example is something like ebola that someone with symptoms is in such a bad way that people naturally stay away, making outbreaks self-limiting.
death and permanent harm certainly isn't restricted to inadequately vaccinated populations in this case - Africa has the lowest rates of both innoculation and infections/deaths, and the ukraine is only 35% vaccinated (although I doubt covid is the main concern for many of the people unlucky enough to be going through what they are).
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 16, 2022 19:49:32 GMT -5
My main thought is a pretty 'common sense' one though - the 'symptoms' of a virus are generally the mechanisms by which they spread - a swollen throat is due to cells actually being infected and getting bigger/bursting, coughing due to airways being attacked to the point of reacting by expelling mucus, nasal passages getting inflamed and causing sneezing - all these are how the virus is then expelled into the air to infect someone close by (or sometimes by fomites in some diseases). If a disease is 'asymptomatic' by definition it can't be spread by that person in any of these ways. And in order for the viral load to be sufficient to cause spread infection, symptoms would be expected.
the other end of the example is something like ebola that someone with symptoms is in such a bad way that people naturally stay away, making outbreaks self-limiting.
death and permanent harm certainly isn't restricted to inadequately vaccinated populations in this case - Africa has the lowest rates of both innoculation and infections/deaths, and the ukraine is only 35% vaccinated (although I doubt covid is the main concern for many of the people unlucky enough to be going through what they are).
Youβre right that coughing and sneezing both help to spread viruses (especially those viruses primarily spread by droplets.)
But where youβve gone astray is that symptoms are not necessary at all for spread.
Many viruses are infectious before you get symptoms. In fact, many viruses donβt make everyone they infect sick at all. You can get some viruses simply by talking to someone with the virus (if airborne) or by touching a door handle they touched. No symptoms necessary. HIV, though not a respiratory virus and not spread by coughing, is especially famous for having a very, very long period of asymptomatic spread.
Asymptomatic spread of viruses isnβt something new, controversial or debated by scientists. We know itβs real. And we also have known for a very long time that the combination of a deadly, airborne virus with a significant period of asymptomatic spread could disrupt human society. There were many books written long before Covid-19 warning of this scenario. (And bad as it is, Covid-19 is not by any means the worst-case scenario that could happen--and I mean that from a medical point-of-view, let alone societal!)
The stuff about Africa is a completely different question, but there are so many different dynamics in some African countries to Europe and the US that it's not comparable (typically much younger populations, less dense populations, greater exposure to immune-modifying diseases and warmer weather, for starters). There's also less public health infrastructure to accurately assess case rates.
Anyway, not really wanting to debate vaccination. If you havenβt figured out by now that it helped, then thereβs just not a lot to be said. What happens next is more complicated.
But just wanted to set the record straight that thereβs nothing unusual at all about Covid-19 being asymptomatic in some people. Itβs not weird and doesnβt suggest anything about the virus other than that it works like a virus!
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Post by mimmihopps on May 17, 2022 4:24:47 GMT -5
Despite booster and been very careful past 2 years, we had it last month. Though we were very lucky as we didn't feel ill at all. I only had runny nose for 2 days, no fever at all. We worked from home while we were in quarantine and 5th day we tested negative. I wouldn't have had known that I had a covid if I didn't take a rapid test first. I must say it was a quite shock when these 2 lines appeared clearly on a rapid test cassette.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 4:58:10 GMT -5
My main thought is a pretty 'common sense' one though - the 'symptoms' of a virus are generally the mechanisms by which they spread - a swollen throat is due to cells actually being infected and getting bigger/bursting, coughing due to airways being attacked to the point of reacting by expelling mucus, nasal passages getting inflamed and causing sneezing - all these are how the virus is then expelled into the air to infect someone close by (or sometimes by fomites in some diseases). If a disease is 'asymptomatic' by definition it can't be spread by that person in any of these ways. And in order for the viral load to be sufficient to cause spread infection, symptoms would be expected.
the other end of the example is something like ebola that someone with symptoms is in such a bad way that people naturally stay away, making outbreaks self-limiting.
death and permanent harm certainly isn't restricted to inadequately vaccinated populations in this case - Africa has the lowest rates of both innoculation and infections/deaths, and the ukraine is only 35% vaccinated (although I doubt covid is the main concern for many of the people unlucky enough to be going through what they are).
Youβre right that coughing and sneezing both help to spread viruses (especially those viruses primarily spread by droplets.)
But where youβve gone astray is that symptoms are not necessary at all for spread.
Many viruses are infectious before you get symptoms. In fact, many viruses donβt make everyone they infect sick at all. You can get some viruses simply by talking to someone with the virus (if airborne) or by touching a door handle they touched. No symptoms necessary. HIV, though not a respiratory virus and not spread by coughing, is especially famous for having a very, very long period of asymptomatic spread.
Asymptomatic spread of viruses isnβt something new, controversial or debated by scientists. We know itβs real. And we also have known for a very long time that the combination of a deadly, airborne virus with a significant period of asymptomatic spread could disrupt human society. There were many books written long before Covid-19 warning of this scenario. (And bad as it is, Covid-19 is not by any means the worst-case scenario that could happen--and I mean that from a medical point-of-view, let alone societal!)
The stuff about Africa is a completely different question, but there are so many different dynamics in some African countries to Europe and the US that it's not comparable (typically much younger populations, less dense populations, greater exposure to immune-modifying diseases and warmer weather, for starters). There's also less public health infrastructure to accurately assess case rates.
Anyway, not really wanting to debate vaccination. If you havenβt figured out by now that it helped, then thereβs just not a lot to be said. What happens next is more complicated.
But just wanted to set the record straight that thereβs nothing unusual at all about Covid-19 being asymptomatic in some people. Itβs not weird and doesnβt suggest anything about the virus other than that it works like a virus! good debate but yes prob not the place for it really!
Also talking to my US friends it seems that the whole topic is far more politically charged over there than it is here in the UK in many ways, so there is plenty of room for mis-interpretation etc when often we're all really agreeing
just to be clear, I totally agree that you can carry a virus without succumbing to it (be asymptomatic) - it's how the immune system works, you get something and essentially beat it, but you've still 'got' it! It's also how traditionally vaccinations have worked in the past, giving you just enough of the virus to produce an immune response, although some things often gave slight symptoms in some cases, but smallpox, measles, chicken pox vax all work in this fundamental way.
HOWEVER what I am saying is that for a respiratory virus it does need to be symptomatic to spread, whether it's covid19, SARS, MERS or any of the other 4 coronavirus that cause the common cold, or flu, or TB and others. It's an essential part of the 'viral load' mechanism.
HIV of course is a very different thing with very specific transmission processes.
I know there are basically studies and stats to support virtually any position on all this, but I'm reasonably convinced by the ones I've seen that pretty much rule out transmitting any of the coronaviruses without being infected enough to produce noticeable symptoms.
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 17, 2022 21:43:11 GMT -5
HOWEVER what I am saying is that for a respiratory virus it does need to be symptomatic to spread, whether it's covid19, SARS, MERS or any of the other 4 coronavirus that cause the common cold, or flu, or TB and others. It's an essential part of the 'viral load' mechanism.
Again, this is just not true. I understand why it seems that way but it's not what the current science says. Can't really get around that.
From the Journal of Infectious Diseases:
Abstract
To determine rates of both symptomatic and asymptomatic infection among ambulatory adults, we collected nasopharyngeal swab specimens, demographic characteristics, and survey information from 1477 adult visitors to a New York City tourist attraction during AprilβJuly 2016. Multiplex polymerase chain reaction analysis was used to identify specimens positive for common respiratory viruses. A total of 7.2% of samples tested positive for respiratory viruses; among positive samples, 71.0% contained rhinovirus, and 21.5% contained coronavirus. Influenza virus, respiratory syncytial virus, and parainfluenza virus were also detected. Depending on symptomatologic definition, 57.7%β93.3% of positive samples were asymptomatic. These findings indicate that significant levels of asymptomatic respiratory viral shedding exist during summer among the ambulatory adult population.
From the Lancet:
In an index-cluster cohort study in The Lancet Infectious Diseases, Micah McClain and colleagues2 report that respiratory infections can be detected before development of symptoms using transcriptomic biomarkers. McClain and colleagues identified 555 close contacts of 264 students at Duke University (Durham, NC, USA) with suspected respiratory infection and monitored them for 5 consecutive days for development of symptoms, viral shedding, and expression levels of 36 genes. Gene expression patterns differed between symptomatic individuals without microbiological confirmation, symptomatic individuals with a confirmed viral cause, and asymptomatic individuals with a pathogen detected. Using a 36-gene RT-PCR assay, McClain and colleagues could identify differential transcription patterns in infected patients up to 3 days before the development of clinical signs, with an area under the receiver operating characteristic curve of 0Β·77. This finding increases the time available to prevent the spread of a virus and has implications for detection of asymptomatic patients in the setting of endemic and pandemic infectious diseases, such as the ongoing severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 pandemic. Early detection of infection and asymptomatic carriers is key to controlling the spread of viruses and consequently reducing the associated morbidity and mortality.
A few more if you're interested (although there are 100s and 100s):
Really don't want to have a debate over it.
There's just too much bad info being circulated around on the internet, that's really all that worries me.
You originally said it's weird that you could have Covid and only find out later by testing. It's really not weird, that was my only point. Asymptomatic illness is so common as to be more than normal. It's standard. And asymptomatic spreading also has been seen in most respiratory viruses including influenza (which probably has the least amount of asymptomatic spread.)
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Post by tiger40 on May 20, 2022 13:48:46 GMT -5
I read on the BBC news pages that Covid cases are continuing to fall, however, I still wear a face mask when I'm out and about.
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Post by Elie De Beaufour π΄ on May 22, 2022 0:10:07 GMT -5
Has anyone not had Covid yet? We all ended up with it in March through our kid who brought it home from nursery. It was pretty much gone in a few days and wasn't bad at all. It's been pretty nice cutting about crowds etc for the past couple of months with a bit of immunity (given we've had 3 vaxs + infection). I literally don't know anyone now who hasn't had it. I never had it (knock on wood) and I actually know lots of people who never had it, family, colleagues and friends. Might be a coincidence, but we did have strict rules here, especially in my home town. Haven't had it but had similar according to a scientist
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Post by Elie De Beaufour π΄ on May 22, 2022 0:11:49 GMT -5
Craig Kelly the fuckwit who idolised Trump's alternatives is no longer a member (congratulations Jenny Ware). Pauline Hanson following soon.
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Post by tiger40 on May 27, 2022 18:26:01 GMT -5
I forgot to mention this but the Sue Grey report on the Government's parties during lockdown is truly disgusting and disgraceful. And, of course Boris Johnson is too arrogant to resgin. And, nobody is going to forget this.
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Post by globe on May 29, 2022 4:26:35 GMT -5
I forgot to mention this but the Sue Grey report on the Government's parties during lockdown is truly disgusting and disgraceful. And, of course Boris Johnson is too arrogant to resgin. And, nobody is going to forget this.Β Apparently the report was originally 60 odd pages but the released version was what? 35 pages or something? I wonder what happened there eh.
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Post by tiger40 on May 29, 2022 14:05:54 GMT -5
I forgot to mention this but the Sue Grey report on the Government's parties during lockdown is truly disgusting and disgraceful. And, of course Boris Johnson is too arrogant to resgin. And, nobody is going to forget this. Apparently the report was originally 60 odd pages but the released version was what? 35 pages or something? I wonder what happened there eh. That doesn't surprise me and I too wonder what happened there.
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Post by tiger40 on Jun 6, 2022 13:45:12 GMT -5
So there's going to be a no confidence vote on Boris Johnson by Tory MPs later. Sadly I somehow think he might win, however that said I'll laugh if he doesn't.
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Post by tiger40 on Jun 12, 2022 13:13:32 GMT -5
So cases are going up again in the UK due to two new strains of the African one. But I hope it doesn't get too bad.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jun 16, 2022 17:39:15 GMT -5
So even though I work in hospitals and have never had it so far the time has finally arrived and fuck me its shite. Fever, headache and muscle aches. Nothing else at the moment though, hoping thatβs it.
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