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Post by andymorris on Nov 3, 2021 3:39:17 GMT -5
Ok his rant about what we do and why we do it, loving it, he's back in !
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Post by Diamond in The Dark on Nov 3, 2021 4:41:12 GMT -5
We all know. Noel Gallagher was the author of most of Oasis's most famous lyrics and music, but he too had his "helpers" ... I realize that most of Noel Gallagher's masterpieces for Oasis are nothing more than Noel's own reworking of melodies (and even words) already conceived, written, tested and previously published by other authors. Those melodies and even some of the lyrics that we all know and sing are not the absolute and natural fruit of Noel's artistic talent. Should we cry forever knowing that all those great songs, albeit reworked, are born from a melodic strain already written and tested by other authors, and that there is nothing really authentic? Come on, let's enjoy the melodies, words and performances, and stop being music surgeons. Today everything is written by several hands and everything is inspired by something already written by someone.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Nov 3, 2021 5:57:00 GMT -5
Ok, second part of Wyatt interview : "Kanye West is great". That's the end for me / Noel likes him too
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Post by Rolo on Nov 3, 2021 6:02:13 GMT -5
Right? It blows my mind how many people are bothered about who wrote his songs, who GIVES a fuck, it makes no difference as long as it’s good and Liam is singing it. I really pity people (several of which are in this thread) who can’t bear to separate the writer from the performer, it’s pathetic psychological bullshit. If it genuinely bothers you then take a long hard look at yourself and maybe you’ll realise how unimportant it is. If who wrote a song affects how you feel about a song, then you’re a music fan for all the wrong reasons. You crack on Liam, keep banging them out no matter who writes them, because realistically it makes no difference. Ignore literally anyone who says otherwise. Imagine being like “oh this song is great!” then “oh wait, Liam didn’t write it, I like it less now” 😂 insanity. It makes a difference when the music has no credibility, he literally sung "when the lights go down on Broadway". Does it sound like Liam Gallagher? I don't think so He's putting albums with his name on the front, I'd expect a lot of involvement in the making because he's a good songwriter But if he chooses the easy way,the pop star way,good for him. It will definitely work because the fan base is loyal and it hasn't high expectations. The way Liam sings "when the lights go down on brooaaaaaaaddway" is one of the highlights on the whole album for me. Love that tune.
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Post by LightsOffInside on Nov 3, 2021 6:47:45 GMT -5
I loved Why Me Why Not? (album) and still play it regularly (not all songs, but plenty). In fact in general I listen to Liam (and Noel's) solo stuff much more than anything post 1997 of Oasis. I liked As You Were (except Chinatown) but found WMWN to be a much more bold and confident album.
And as far as Wyatt's writing goes, he wrote one of the most brilliant and exceptionally "Liam-esque" songs on that album, "The River". An absolute BELTER of a tune which makes its way into my playlists every week. Probably one of my favourite Liam-sung songs since the 90s. The more of these songs the better in my opinion.
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Post by matt on Nov 3, 2021 10:11:30 GMT -5
We all know. Noel Gallagher was the author of most of Oasis's most famous lyrics and music, but he too had his "helpers" ... I realize that most of Noel Gallagher's masterpieces for Oasis are nothing more than Noel's own reworking of melodies (and even words) already conceived, written, tested and previously published by other authors. Those melodies and even some of the lyrics that we all know and sing are not the absolute and natural fruit of Noel's artistic talent. Should we cry forever knowing that all those great songs, albeit reworked, are born from a melodic strain already written and tested by other authors, and that there is nothing really authentic? Come on, let's enjoy the melodies, words and performances, and stop being music surgeons. Today everything is written by several hands and everything is inspired by something already written by someone. 'Nothing more'. These kind of posts really do Oasis, and not just Noel, a disservice. It's not what you borrow, it's what you do with it. A clip of a melody or a riff here and there doesn't give us something 'already conceived'. It's a mere ingredient in the overall feast that Noel conjures up. Noel's a genius for that. If it was so simple and easy as you seem to suggest, there'd be millions of other songwriters doing just what he did. I'm not speaking up for Noel, I'm speaking up for Oasis. It's a tired cliched argument from the band's haters.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Nov 3, 2021 10:18:53 GMT -5
Noel Gallagher clearly just took the Beatles back catalogue and ran away with it, doesn't take any talent to conceive What's The Story Morning Glory
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Post by welshylad on Nov 3, 2021 11:13:38 GMT -5
Lolz
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Post by Diamond in The Dark on Nov 3, 2021 12:01:26 GMT -5
It is not just a simple ingredient. Oasis was not Beethoven. a few borrowed notes are enough to create a melody from it. Noel had the good intuition of knowing well which ones to take and was able to use them to the fullest. Oasis weren't made of infinite notes. The melody always rested on the same ones, and very often those "key" notes were borrowed from other songs already published by other authors. I say this not to criticize Oasis' Noel, but to make you understand that here you always make controversy if something "authentic" is not born in a pure way by someone. Well, neither Oasis nor solo Noel nor solo Liam have invented anything new. They have only been able to create great melodies with a few "stolen" chords, making some much better than the originals. Their attitude and Liam's voice did the rest. They had nothing truly authentic in their music, just as many other great bands have nothing authentic. "Pure" and unconditional music ended centuries ago. Today they are just a mix of melodies borrowed here and there. And I don't mind at all as long as Liam is behind that microphone. I don't care if Liam put 2 notes he thought about 7… or AW put 5 or it's a fucking cover. The important thing is that it is good music and that it makes you feel a strong thrill when you listen to it. So stop examining how many notes Liam writes and how many not. Today's music (by anyone - Oasis and many other bands included) is just a mix of what has already been invented by someone. All that matters is that that mix has to be done right and convey something.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Nov 3, 2021 12:19:12 GMT -5
It is not just a simple ingredient. Oasis was not Beethoven. a few borrowed notes are enough to create a melody from it. Noel had the good intuition of knowing well which ones to take and was able to use them to the fullest. Oasis weren't made of infinite notes. The melody always rested on the same ones, and very often those "key" notes were borrowed from other songs already published by other authors. I say this not to criticize Oasis' Noel, but to make you understand that here you always make controversy if something "authentic" is not born in a pure way by someone. Well, neither Oasis nor solo Noel nor solo Liam have invented anything new. They have only been able to create great melodies with a few "stolen" chords, making some much better than the originals. Their attitude and Liam's voice did the rest. They had nothing truly authentic in their music, just as many other great bands have nothing authentic. "Pure" and unconditional music ended centuries ago. Today they are just a mix of melodies borrowed here and there. And I don't mind at all as long as Liam is behind that microphone. I don't care if Liam put 2 notes he thought about 7… or AW put 5 or it's a fucking cover. The important thing is that it is good music and that it makes you feel a strong thrill when you listen to it. So stop examining how many notes Liam writes and how many not. Today's music (by anyone - Oasis and many other bands included) is just a mix of what has already been invented by someone. All that matters is that that mix has to be done right and convey something. I don't think anyone is talking about "authenticity" mentioning how many melodies are absolutely new and never heard before, no one has brought that up as it wouldn't be relevant in this convo When I say "authentic" (think I actually mentioned credibility instead, but anyway) I'm talking about how some of the music to me doesn't sound like it's something that could come from Liam and goes down well with what he represents, and MY interpretation is that some of it may be because of the way those things are written When I hear Wyatt's philosophing in Chinatown and The River or the lights going down on Broadway in Alright Now or Paper Crown being so odd and out of place next to the other songs on As You Were it makes me cringe That's just me, people are free to enjoy it, but that's got nothing to do with Noel taking the All the Young Dudes melody and making Don't Look Back In Anger out of it
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Post by Diamond in The Dark on Nov 3, 2021 12:42:34 GMT -5
I remember my adolescence going crazy for the effectiveness of Hello's refrain only to discover that it was not invented by Noel at all. Once as a kid on a survey of the best riff in Rock I proudly and naively entered "Cigarettes & Alchool by Oasis", they laughed at me and made fun of me because it was not invented by Noel at all. And there are so many of these stories. So to me personally that Liam gets help writing songs, or that he sings about New York, Bethlehem, or the Manchester synagogue I don't care. the thing that makes me delirious is the melody with his voice on it, and the way he pronounces the words. It makes me travel, excites me and rages me like no other. So personally if he only wrote a note and a half word it doesn't bother me at all. We are in 2021 it's all about borrowing, it's all about "co-writing" with someone. For me it could also make an album of all covers. If he can sing them as God commands, in his own way, that's all that really matters.
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Post by andymorris on Nov 3, 2021 12:44:59 GMT -5
Ok, second part of Wyatt interview : "Kanye West is great". That's the end for me / Noel likes him too I know. but Noel has shit taste in music. Mostly.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Nov 3, 2021 12:50:04 GMT -5
Noel likes him too I know. but Noel has shit taste in music. Mostly. Ha, can't agree here
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Post by andymorris on Nov 3, 2021 12:50:21 GMT -5
We all know. Noel Gallagher was the author of most of Oasis's most famous lyrics and music, but he too had his "helpers" ... I realize that most of Noel Gallagher's masterpieces for Oasis are nothing more than Noel's own reworking of melodies (and even words) already conceived, written, tested and previously published by other authors. Those melodies and even some of the lyrics that we all know and sing are not the absolute and natural fruit of Noel's artistic talent. Should we cry forever knowing that all those great songs, albeit reworked, are born from a melodic strain already written and tested by other authors, and that there is nothing really authentic? Come on, let's enjoy the melodies, words and performances, and stop being music surgeons. Today everything is written by several hands and everything is inspired by something already written by someone. 'Nothing more'. These kind of posts really do Oasis, and not just Noel, a disservice. It's not what you borrow, it's what you do with it. A clip of a melody or a riff here and there doesn't give us something 'already conceived'. It's a mere ingredient in the overall feast that Noel conjures up. Noel's a genius for that. If it was so simple and easy as you seem to suggest, there'd be millions of other songwriters doing just what he did. I'm not speaking up for Noel, I'm speaking up for Oasis. It's a tired cliched argument from the band's haters. True, either people saying that shit dont know a thing about music or are just bad musicians. Noel did steal a few stuff (CGA riff, Dont go away chorus... but DLBIA intro is not stealing, it's just two silly simple chords), but 99.99999953775344325% of his work is his work. It's not because he says he was inspired by something that he "stole" it. He's just bragging knowing he will get away with it. Totally different things. Modern music is also not that complicated, so one way or another, it's already been done. There's bound to be bits of melodies in one song that end up in thousand of others. Also, a simple chord structure is not stealing. Anyone can write another song with Live forever's chord sequence... and it still will be a new song.
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Post by andymorris on Nov 3, 2021 12:56:56 GMT -5
I remember my adolescence going crazy for the effectiveness of Hello's refrain only to discover that it was not invented by Noel at all. If you read the liner notes it's clearly mentionned. Same for Rockin Chair. Some other songs deserved that co-credits though i'll give you that. We're not saying no co-write. We're saying, the product needs to be more Liam. Feels like it's just 1%. at best.
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Post by Diamond in The Dark on Nov 3, 2021 13:13:02 GMT -5
'Nothing more'. These kind of posts really do Oasis, and not just Noel, a disservice. It's not what you borrow, it's what you do with it. A clip of a melody or a riff here and there doesn't give us something 'already conceived'. It's a mere ingredient in the overall feast that Noel conjures up. Noel's a genius for that. If it was so simple and easy as you seem to suggest, there'd be millions of other songwriters doing just what he did. I'm not speaking up for Noel, I'm speaking up for Oasis. It's a tired cliched argument from the band's haters. True, either people saying that shit dont know a thing about music or are just bad musicians. Noel did steal a few stuff (CGA riff, Dont go away chorus... but DLBIA intro is not stealing, it's just two silly simple chords), but 99.99999953775344325% of his work is his work. It's not because he says he was inspired by something that he "stole" it. He's just bragging knowing he will get away with it. Totally different things. Modern music is also not that complicated, so one way or another, it's already been done. There's bound to be bits of melodies in one song that end up in thousand of others. Also, a simple chord structure is not stealing. Anyone can write another song with Live forever's chord sequence... and it still will be a new song. The DLBIA chorus was unlocked by Liam, and part of the song, not just the intro, came from another song. Until two years ago there were tons of material on the web of Oasis plagiarism but probably someone had them removed.
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Post by Diamond in The Dark on Nov 3, 2021 13:21:11 GMT -5
I remember my adolescence going crazy for the effectiveness of Hello's refrain only to discover that it was not invented by Noel at all. If you read the liner notes it's clearly mentionned. Same for Rockin Chair. Some other songs deserved that co-credits though i'll give you that. We're not saying no co-write. We're saying, the product needs to be more Liam. Feels like it's just 1%. at best. There shouldn't be just those but many others. Columbia for example was written by Liam and Chris Griffiths borrowing part of a melody from a House music. They inserted the guitars and wrote 2 stanzas each ... Noel is the only "author". They have not included neither Liam, nor Griffiths, nor the author of the original part. But only Noel who has almost nothing to do with the song. An ignorant user would believe that that song was written by Noel, but there are more than 3 people on it. And there are tons of similar stories. So we should stop complaining about Liam's co-writers once and for all.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Nov 3, 2021 13:28:31 GMT -5
If you read the liner notes it's clearly mentionned. Same for Rockin Chair. Some other songs deserved that co-credits though i'll give you that. We're not saying no co-write. We're saying, the product needs to be more Liam. Feels like it's just 1%. at best. There shouldn't be just those but many others. Columbia for example was written by Liam and Chris Griffiths borrowing part of a melody from a House music. They inserted the guitars and wrote 2 stanzas each ... Noel is the only "author". They have not included neither Liam, nor Griffiths, nor the author of the original part. But only Noel who has almost nothing to do with the song. An ignorant user would believe that that song was written by Noel, but there are more than 3 people on it. And there are tons of similar stories. So we should stop complaining about Liam's co-writers once and for all. There are not plenty of examples mate, that's the one case Noel Gallagher has written more than 200 songs and those are just the ones that have been recorded, if it was as simple as "he copied everything and ran with it" we'd all put some little effort in it and become multi-millionaires and highly revered songwriters, Liam included And yet, this is still not what we're discussing about
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Post by igotflair on Nov 3, 2021 13:29:44 GMT -5
I haven’t listened to the Podcast, is it worth listening to or is it just Wyatt bumping his gums? I’m surprised to hear that he said he’s written all the songs on the album as I’m sure there were some from a different writer recorded in early spring 2020, the same sessions as All You’re Dreaming Of. I didn’t think they’d decided on the final cut yet.
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Post by defmaybe00 on Nov 3, 2021 13:32:11 GMT -5
I haven’t listened to the Podcast, is it worth listening to or is it just Wyatt bumping his gums? I’m surprised to hear that he said he’s written all the songs on the album as I’m sure there were some from a different writer recorded in early spring 2019, the same sessions as All You’re Dreaming Of. I didn’t think they’d decided on the final cut yet. I don't think he said that, but it does sound like he's heavily involved compared to others I also assume he's the sole producer this time? Unless they're doing other sessions later
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Post by lg on Nov 3, 2021 13:32:34 GMT -5
If you read the liner notes it's clearly mentionned. Same for Rockin Chair. Some other songs deserved that co-credits though i'll give you that. We're not saying no co-write. We're saying, the product needs to be more Liam. Feels like it's just 1%. at best. There shouldn't be just those but many others. Columbia for example was written by Liam and Chris Griffiths borrowing part of a melody from a House music. They inserted the guitars and wrote 2 stanzas each ... Noel is the only "author". They have not included neither Liam, nor Griffiths, nor the author of the original part. But only Noel who has almost nothing to do with the song. An ignorant user would believe that that song was written by Noel, but there are more than 3 people on it. And there are tons of similar stories. So we should stop complaining about Liam's co-writers once and for all. Yeah but aside all the weird assumptions you didn't get my point I'm not complaining because he's co writing, I'm complaining because he's not really co-writing
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Post by lg on Nov 3, 2021 13:35:18 GMT -5
I haven’t listened to the Podcast, is it worth listening to or is it just Wyatt bumping his gums? I’m surprised to hear that he said he’s written all the songs on the album as I’m sure there were some from a different writer recorded in early spring 2019, the same sessions as All You’re Dreaming Of. I didn’t think they’d decided on the final cut yet. He said "I'm in London working with Liam Gallagher, basically making his whole Album" So I guess he's heavily involved as a songwriter and as a producer
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Post by mancraider on Nov 3, 2021 13:47:28 GMT -5
I haven’t listened to the Podcast, is it worth listening to or is it just Wyatt bumping his gums? I’m surprised to hear that he said he’s written all the songs on the album as I’m sure there were some from a different writer recorded in early spring 2019, the same sessions as All You’re Dreaming Of. I didn’t think they’d decided on the final cut yet. 95% of it is AW and the other dude talking shite about random stuff. Its not really a structured piece, more a stream of consciousness late night chat. All the liam stuff is at the start when he is asked what he is up to at moment. He doesn't say most of the stuff that's been mentioned on here, that's just people reading between the lines and hearing what they want to hear. All he basically says is that Liam has limited influences and he has tried to push him into more modern territory, and most of his work has been in editing the album to bring the two together into a coherent whole and he is pleased with the final results as it is nearly finished. Says they have aimed to create something that is a bit different but also sits comfortably next to oasis songs.
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Post by tiger40 on Nov 3, 2021 13:54:31 GMT -5
It would be great if Wyatt has managed to push Liam a litte out of his comfort zone on his next album but I do expect that we won't get something out of the ordinary though and nothing like Noel has done.
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Post by tiger40 on Nov 3, 2021 13:59:57 GMT -5
I loved Why Me Why Not? (album) and still play it regularly (not all songs, but plenty). In fact in general I listen to Liam (and Noel's) solo stuff much more than anything post 1997 of Oasis. I liked As You Were (except Chinatown) but found WMWN to be a much more bold and confident album. And as far as Wyatt's writing goes, he wrote one of the most brilliant and exceptionally "Liam-esque" songs on that album, "The River". An absolute BELTER of a tune which makes its way into my playlists every week. Probably one of my favourite Liam-sung songs since the 90s. The more of these songs the better in my opinion. Yeah, I too love Why Me Why Not and As You Were and still listen to them a lot more than I do any of Noel's stuff and Oasis's 2000s stuff. The River is a tune especially live.
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