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Post by mancraider on Nov 16, 2017 10:04:45 GMT -5
Good for you. Maybe you would be worried if you were living hand to mouth already and you feared your life spinning out of control if prices shoot up as predicted by virally every sensible economist and you haven't had a pay rise in years due to the tories austerity policies. If you were worried about losing your house because you might not be able to afford the mortgage or even feeding your kids. You may very well be fine and not worried but a hell of a lot of people are, even many who voted leave but now regret it. Personally I don't think it'll happen. Or if it dooes it'll be reversed, at least partially, shortly afterwards. The core people who are pushing for it are billionaires looking to avoid the EU anti tax avoidence laws due to kick in 2019. Tories party backers and Newspaper owners mostly. They don't give a fuck about you and will destroy your life without a second thought as long as they kept their money. There was a reason the Media helped stir up bigotry and racial tensions before the vote, and it had nothing to do with making life better for 'real' Brits. But these same economists were the ones who said it'd be a disaster for us not to join the Euro - just as an example. That's where remain went wrong. They used fear to try and scare people into it. People who were already scared - for the reasons you state above, but instead of bucking to that, the majority seemed to see straight through it. Maybe if remain had focused more on the positives of staying in the EU, than the negatives of leaving it, it'd have been different. I want to start a family soon, and I know it's going to be tough. I haven't been to university as such but I'm fortunate to have a job I love doing and that I worked bloody hard to get into. I didn't have a head start in life either. And I'm well aware of all the driving forces behind Brexit as well. As I said, it's a shit show. It should never have been called to vote in the first place but my point is, I don't think that anybody will be worse off after this happens than they are now - probably just a sad reflection on how much of a state the country/world is in at the moment. That's perhaps a better way of putting it. But there's still joy to be had in life. And all I get is people panicking. Panic creates panic. Fear creates more fear. That's what they (the elite) want. I get what you're saying and I'm not pariculary worried myself. I have a good job and will be ok. My original point was simply that a lot of people worse off than both of us really do fear for the future and some millionaire rockstar saying they should just get on with it isn't really helpful to them. I mean everyone everywhere has to just get on with things, there's not really any other way to live your life is there. People that aren't particular well off though don't need rich people telling them to shut up and get on with it. Incidentally I've been lucky enough to travel all over the world in the past and it really opens your eyes to how the way we are treated in this country by those in charge is so unnecessary. It's almost criminal. But most don't know any different so just accept it because they are told that's just they way the world is and they have to accept it. I don't know if it'll change, probably not in my lifetime, the people in real power have too firm a grip on things to be easily removed.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 16, 2017 10:04:52 GMT -5
So weird that Noel comes out with nonsense like this on a fairly regular basis, but people on here have pages of controversy over a girl playing the scissors. It's easier to poke fun at silliness like that than it is to face the fact that Noel's politics are kind of shitty.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 16, 2017 10:07:55 GMT -5
I'm a little bit more annoyed that he thinks Europe is the oldest continent. To be fair he also mentioned Milton Keynes as being the oldest city in England as well Birthplace of football, too.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Nov 16, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5
If you watched the whole noisy interview I think he stated that he thought the vote never should've happened in the first place because your average person doesn't understand the benefits/ consequences of it and he personally didn't vote because of that and that. As well as that his view was that Britain should've stayed in the EU. So it seems more to me that he's not so much on board with it, but rather that he thinks the vote should be respected That's exactly what he said and which is reasonable IMO. Don't understand all the complaining in this thread, but I guess people always need something to fall over.
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Post by elephantstone93 on Nov 16, 2017 10:48:13 GMT -5
16-17 year olds should absolutely not be able to vote in my opinion. I’m only 23 so not far gone of that age, my 16-17 year old self was not mature enough or competent enough to vote. I understand that is not every 16-17 year old and a lot take politics seriously, but the majority, and that would be a large majority, don’t.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 16, 2017 11:00:24 GMT -5
Both remain and leave campaigns told lies much to there detriment however only one side have told lies that have led to an increase in racial tension and hate crime.
And just a note about the suggestion that the remain lie about the arse falling out of the economy, that could still come true, we haven't left yet. On the other hand the NHS will never be getting there 350 million a week.
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Post by johnnyb on Nov 16, 2017 11:01:46 GMT -5
16-17 year olds should absolutely not be able to vote in my opinion. I’m only 23 so not far gone of that age, my 16-17 year old self was not mature enough or competent enough to vote. I understand that is not every 16-17 year old and a lot take politics seriously, but the majority, and that would be a large majority, don’t. Exactly, from what i’ve seen and heard from friends and on social media is that those who call for the voting age to be lowered to 16, are almost always far left Corbynista types knowing that the young and impressionable would provide a big chunk of the catalyst for the implementation of their socialist utopia dreams...
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Post by elephantstone93 on Nov 16, 2017 11:03:14 GMT -5
16-17 year olds should absolutely not be able to vote in my opinion. I’m only 23 so not far gone of that age, my 16-17 year old self was not mature enough or competent enough to vote. I understand that is not every 16-17 year old and a lot take politics seriously, but the majority, and that would be a large majority, don’t. Exactly, from what i’ve seen and heard from friends and on social media is that those who call for the voting age to be lowered to 16, are almost always far left Corbynista types knowing that the young and impressionable would provide a big chunk of the catalyst for the implementation of their socialist utopia dreams... Spot on.
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Post by mostlyharmless on Nov 16, 2017 11:18:57 GMT -5
If you watched the whole noisy interview I think he stated that he thought the vote never should've happened in the first place because your average person doesn't understand the benefits/ consequences of it and he personally didn't vote because of that and that. As well as that his view was that Britain should've stayed in the EU. So it seems more to me that he's not so much on board with it, but rather that he thinks the vote should be respected That's exactly what he said and which is reasonable IMO. Don't understand all the complaining in this thread, but I guess people always need something to fall over. I don't live in the UK, but if he thinks the referendum was a mistake and he preferred remain, then "shut up and get over it" will only let such mistakes happen again. It's far more complicated than he perceives. Respecting the vote meaning people who voted against it are also gonna pay the cost, face uncertainty and hassles in the future and what ground does a rich man standto tell them not to complain? Dear Noel, sometimes it's wiser to shut up about politics rather than coming up with smart ass comment based on 5 seconds thinking. (Edit: Plus he used to bash Thatcher at every opportunity. Well she got enough vote didn't she.)
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 16, 2017 11:25:52 GMT -5
16-17 year olds should absolutely not be able to vote in my opinion. I’m only 23 so not far gone of that age, my 16-17 year old self was not mature enough or competent enough to vote. I understand that is not every 16-17 year old and a lot take politics seriously, but the majority, and that would be a large majority, don’t. Exactly, from what i’ve seen and heard from friends and on social media is that those who call for the voting age to be lowered to 16, are almost always far left Corbynista types knowing that the young and impressionable would provide a big chunk of the catalyst for the implementation of their socialist utopia dreams... As opposed to older voters who've bought the "good old days" utopia dream narrative from Farage and his gang? Pot, the kettle would like a word.
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Post by johnnyb on Nov 16, 2017 11:29:03 GMT -5
Exactly, from what i’ve seen and heard from friends and on social media is that those who call for the voting age to be lowered to 16, are almost always far left Corbynista types knowing that the young and impressionable would provide a big chunk of the catalyst for the implementation of their socialist utopia dreams... As opposed to older voters who've bought the "good old days" utopia dream narrative from Farage and his gang? Pot, the kettle would like a word. The difference being of course - that the “older” voters are not calling for voting laws to be changed... Which is the point i was addressing
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Post by johnnyb on Nov 16, 2017 11:32:06 GMT -5
Is it still democracy when the people are misled and their decision is informed by information that isn't even true? No. Fuck off. Can that not be said of every election campaign that has ever existed?
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Post by fj on Nov 16, 2017 11:36:09 GMT -5
Noel seems so out of touch nowadays.
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Post by spaneli on Nov 16, 2017 11:39:55 GMT -5
These are clearly quotes taken way out of context from an actually and surprisingly reasonable political response from Noel.
I honestly don't see what the fuss is about or why people are delivering paragraph(s) long rants.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 16, 2017 11:40:46 GMT -5
As opposed to older voters who've bought the "good old days" utopia dream narrative from Farage and his gang? Pot, the kettle would like a word. The difference being of course - that the “older” voters are not calling for voting laws to be changed... Which is the point i was addressing Of course not, THEY get to vote. The whole argument is that the generation who will bear the brunt of Brexit should have had a seat at the table, especially seeing as how they're considered old enough to fight a war.
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Post by Manualex on Nov 16, 2017 11:44:14 GMT -5
Noel seems so out of touch nowadays. How? Brexit happened and he's saying to do it and not pretend that it didnt happen. Life isnt a videogame you get to reset at certain points until you get your desired results.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Nov 16, 2017 11:51:33 GMT -5
16-17 year olds not being able to vote was ridiculous as well. Why? I'm young. I didn't get the chance to vote when I was below 18. ffs, 18 is the minimum voting age. I'm sick of Brexit. I'm sick of the debate. It's over. None of this whole fucking ridiculous concept of things not being right or it being skewed. 16-17 year olds never had a vote on anything before so why should that have changed now?It's happened. We all need to get over it. This reminds me of my nana. She reads the Daily Mail and so when economic inequality and things like that are brought up in conversation she just scoffs and says "there'll always be inequality and poverty," and then she'll probably say something like "just look at Russia -- they tried to make everything equal, and now they've got all those oligarchs," and I'll have to go into the kitchen to make a brew of sommat, to get away from it. Yes, there probably will always be poverty. That doesn't mean we shouldn't still try to eradicate as much of it as possible though, does it? To be so complacent as to think "well that's just the way things have always been" is very dangerous. If nothing ever changed, inbred fuckwit kings and queens would still be ruling over us with total power.
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Post by johnnyb on Nov 16, 2017 11:56:30 GMT -5
The difference being of course - that the “older” voters are not calling for voting laws to be changed... Which is the point i was addressing Of course not, THEY get to vote. The whole argument is that the generation who will bear the brunt of Brexit should have had a seat at the table, especially seeing as how they're considered old enough to fight a war. Why exactly would YOU want the voting age lowered to 16 years of age? Can you remember being 16? Can you remember you and your friends having a deep interest in the geopolitical cross party constraints of the European Union? If i had the choice i’d have the age higher than 18, i’d much rather (even as a young person) have mine and my country’s future determined by as well informed and experienced people as possible, rather than a bunch of kids that have 5 pubes between them, and of course i think the age of army inscription should be higher than 16. As i said earlier - the agenda of alot of the people calling for voting age to be lowered is nothing short of self serving, they know full well kids that young will vote for their party, and that’s all they care about. Anyway, Beautiful World appears to have almost leaked...
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Post by fj on Nov 16, 2017 12:03:05 GMT -5
Noel seems so out of touch nowadays. How? Brexit happened and he's saying to do it and not pretend that it didnt happen. Life isnt a videogame you get to reset at certain points until you get your desired results. He sounds like he doesn't really care. He became famous as a great songwriter who came out of Burnage, a working class hero. Now he says that common people shouldn't have a say on this kind of things because they're too complicated. I get the 'let's move on already' attitude, and that's ok in general. But I don't like his conformism.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 16, 2017 12:03:56 GMT -5
Of course not, THEY get to vote. The whole argument is that the generation who will bear the brunt of Brexit should have had a seat at the table, especially seeing as how they're considered old enough to fight a war. Why exactly would YOU want the voting age lowered to 16 years of age? Can you remember being 16? Can you remember you and your friends having a deep interest in the geopolitical cross party constraints of the European Union? I don't know many pensioners with better understanding of the geopolitical cross-party constraints of the European Union, either. Advancing age sometimes brings with it increased maturity and education, but not usually. You're right, I hate that I broke my own rule about arguing politics on unrelated forums. Back to the important stuff.
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Post by Spaceman on Nov 16, 2017 12:04:09 GMT -5
Is it still democracy when the people are misled and their decision is informed by information that isn't even true? No. Fuck off. Can that not be said of every election campaign that has ever existed? Yes, which is why elections are basically a sham that only serves to legitimize the same people being in power over and over again. Democracy is a joke tbh
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Post by johnnyb on Nov 16, 2017 12:06:48 GMT -5
Why exactly would YOU want the voting age lowered to 16 years of age? Can you remember being 16? Can you remember you and your friends having a deep interest in the geopolitical cross party constraints of the European Union? I don't know many pensioners with better understanding of the geopolitical cross-party constraints of the European Union, either. Advancing age sometimes brings with it increased maturity and education, but not usually. You're right, I hate that I broke my own rule about arguing politics on unrelated forums. Back to the important stuff. Agreed! The fact is - nobody will know for at least 5 years if this whole Brexit thing will be a long term success or failire for the young, it might fall flat on its face or it might be a revelation, nobody knows... I do know that the BW studio version sounds decent though!
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Post by The Escapist on Nov 16, 2017 12:48:59 GMT -5
Noel didnt say he supports it so the backing of Farage is just ridiculous. However, Noel please shut the fuck up about politics forever. It actually makes me realise you arent that knowledgeable at all. When he talks about terrorism i fucking cringe all the time. It come at a time when we turned our backs on France? Really? How did we do that then? There was many a show of solidarity publicly and it was fucking brilliant how much we all shown togtherness towards a nation we have received quite hostile stuff from in the past. Does Noel know we arent a British Empire and have stuff like the United Nations now? We cant and wont "turn our backs" on anyone. As for complaining about his family having to travel around London and our government do fuck all, im just like wow. Its like lets just forget the hundreds of terrorist plots the government have stopped in the last few years and talk about the small minority of idiots who make a small bomb between a few of them and slip through the net because my family are involved now. Fucking absolute idiot when it comes to politics. I agree. I haven't had any problem with Noel's so-called "persona" this year, but whenever he comments on politics I tend to lose a little bit of respect. The fact that the music we all love from his early years was so staunchly and beautifully working class just makes it all the more annoying.
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Post by The Escapist on Nov 16, 2017 12:51:25 GMT -5
Of course not, THEY get to vote. The whole argument is that the generation who will bear the brunt of Brexit should have had a seat at the table, especially seeing as how they're considered old enough to fight a war. Why exactly would YOU want the voting age lowered to 16 years of age? Can you remember being 16? Can you remember you and your friends having a deep interest in the geopolitical cross party constraints of the European Union? If i had the choice i’d have the age higher than 18, i’d much rather (even as a young person) have mine and my country’s future determined by as well informed and experienced people as possible, rather than a bunch of kids that have 5 pubes between them, and of course i think the age of army inscription should be higher than 16. As i said earlier - the agenda of alot of the people calling for voting age to be lowered is nothing short of self serving, they know full well kids that young will vote for their party, and that’s all they care about. Anyway, Beautiful World appears to have almost leaked... Oh my God, what fucking nonsense. I can assure you as someone who was 16 at the time of the referendum that everyone in my high school had an opinion and a view, and we talked about it quite a bit. This Leninist idea of "We can't let the rabble decide!" is bullshit. The voting age should quite clearly be 16, end of.
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Post by rickypaglais on Nov 16, 2017 12:54:40 GMT -5
If the voting age had been 16 when I was that age, I'd have voted for some horrible shit. Fortunately, I've grown up a lot since then and would like to think that I can sensibly and objectively look at things, and make political decisions that way. And I was one of the more politically aware kids I knew.
Lowering the voting age to 16 is a really, really stupid idea; because 16 year olds' political views are really, really fucking stupid.
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