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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:17:45 GMT -5
People are kicking off because Noel said we should respect a democratic vote? Haha Yep, pretty much... The far-left liberals (most of them Courteeners fans) drive me just as mad as the far-right fascists. In fact, if you look at it, like Noel says, the far-left and far-right have more in common now than they ever did. It's a vicious circle.
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Post by The Escapist on Nov 16, 2017 9:18:12 GMT -5
People are kicking off because Noel said we should respect a democratic vote? Haha Yep, pretty much... The far-left liberals (most of them Courteeners fans) drive me just as mad as the far-right fascists. In fact, if you look at it, like Noel says, the far-left and far-right have more in common now than they ever did. It's a vicious circle. Eh?
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:19:16 GMT -5
Easy to say deal with it when you're a multi millionaire and it's possible effects won't effect your life in any way. I'm not a multi-millionaire (yet, anyway...) I'm 22. I'm going to grow up with this decision as well. I couldn't care less. It's done. It's over. It's only going to effect my life if I keep obsessing over the fact it might effect my life.
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Post by rorymcbride on Nov 16, 2017 9:20:28 GMT -5
Hard to "just enjoy life" when the day after the results three of my friends were told to "fuck off back to where you come from...we won!" Well I'm sorry that happened. I'd suggest that those people who said that are not at all reflective of the vast majority of people in this country. I wouldn't so sure. "I've met the man in the street...he's a kunt"
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Post by shinpad on Nov 16, 2017 9:20:47 GMT -5
As someone with no skin in the game, it always struck me as pretty ridiculous to have such a huge economic decision with such far-reaching and lasting impacts to be decided by popular vote. Most people have no idea how to accurately assess what the long-term economic impact of either result yet they're tasked with making the decision. So then what happens if the vote says one thing and then all this other information comes to light showing that it would be a bad thing? It just doesn't seem to make sense to me to do it that way.
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:20:54 GMT -5
Yep, pretty much... The far-left liberals (most of them Courteeners fans) drive me just as mad as the far-right fascists. In fact, if you look at it, like Noel says, the far-left and far-right have more in common now than they ever did. It's a vicious circle. Eh? People who are so liberal they take everything to the extreme... I'm not calling them Communists, obviously, but the people who are looking for offence or tragedy or atrocity at every given opportunity - just like the far-right look for any excuse to be fascist or racist.
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:21:51 GMT -5
Well I'm sorry that happened. I'd suggest that those people who said that are not at all reflective of the vast majority of people in this country. I wouldn't so sure. "I've met the man in the street...he's a kunt" I'm genuinely sorry it happened. People are dickheads. You know that. Your friends know that. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy life
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Post by ezlo on Nov 16, 2017 9:22:14 GMT -5
16-17 year olds not being able to vote was ridiculous as well. Why? I'm young. I didn't get the chance to vote when I was below 18. ffs, 18 is the minimum voting age. I'm sick of Brexit. I'm sick of the debate. It's over. None of this whole fucking ridiculous concept of things not being right or it being skewed. 16-17 year olds never had a vote on anything before so why should that have changed now? It's happened. We all need to get over it. Didn't the 16-17 year olds have a vote for the Scottish Indy ref?
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:24:41 GMT -5
Why? I'm young. I didn't get the chance to vote when I was below 18. ffs, 18 is the minimum voting age. I'm sick of Brexit. I'm sick of the debate. It's over. None of this whole fucking ridiculous concept of things not being right or it being skewed. 16-17 year olds never had a vote on anything before so why should that have changed now? It's happened. We all need to get over it. Didn't the 16-17 year olds have a vote on the Scottish Indy ref? They did I believe. But I'm not Scottish. I'm English. I never had the chance to vote on anything before I was 18. I don't see why that should have changed (and btw, I voted remain - even though I think there's a hell of a lot wrong with the EU). Doesn't change the fact that it's done and dusted and now it's down to the government that fucked it over in the first place to do something about it and get the best deal possible.
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Post by shinpad on Nov 16, 2017 9:25:12 GMT -5
Why? I'm young. I didn't get the chance to vote when I was below 18. ffs, 18 is the minimum voting age. I'm sick of Brexit. I'm sick of the debate. It's over. None of this whole fucking ridiculous concept of things not being right or it being skewed. 16-17 year olds never had a vote on anything before so why should that have changed now? It's happened. We all need to get over it. Because they clearly should be able to vote. If you can be sent to a desert in the middle east with an assault rifle and a good-luck, you should also be able to vote in a referendum.
The silver lining is that the massive inability of the government to bring about Brexit may just lead to the destruction of the Conservatives.
It's sort of darkly funny - those aged 16-17 for example cannot vote (and I'm not arguing that they should) but something like Brexit is far, far more likely to have a significant impact upon them and their future than it is someone who is older and has already been in the workplace for years or who has retired already, etc. So there are how many older folks voting on this who will likely be dead and gone without having to really face the effects of it.
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:27:55 GMT -5
Because they clearly should be able to vote. If you can be sent to a desert in the middle east with an assault rifle and a good-luck, you should also be able to vote in a referendum.
The silver lining is that the massive inability of the government to bring about Brexit may just lead to the destruction of the Conservatives.
It's sort of darkly funny - those aged 16-17 for example cannot vote (and I'm not arguing that they should) but something like Brexit is far, far more likely to have a significant impact upon them and their future than it is someone who is older and has already been in the workplace for years or who has retired already, etc. So there are how many older folks voting on this who will likely be dead and gone without having to really face the effects of it. That's the argument, which I understand. But it's never been before, so why should it have been changed for one vote?
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Post by The Escapist on Nov 16, 2017 9:27:57 GMT -5
People who are so liberal they take everything to the extreme... I'm not calling them Communists, obviously, but the people who are looking for offence or tragedy or atrocity at every given opportunity - just like the far-right look for any excuse to be fascist or racist. Far-left is very different from liberal - I'm far-left, so I should know. We want to abolish private property, they want to tax property owners a bit more. There's similarities, but no such thing as a "far-left liberal".
I don't think that another referendum is needed, but I do think there's a strong case that the original one wasn't all that democratic. Young people not voting, the massive amount of lies on both sides, the general context which meant people were voting more on immigration than the EU, the narrow majority achieved, the fact that a lot of people would now change their leave vote. I don't necessarily agree with all these things, but I see where they're coming from. The utter disaster of the Brexit negotiations isn't helping either.
My problem with what Noel said is that he called Nigel Farage "a lad", something infinitely more offensive than a joke about Liam's kidneys.
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Post by The Escapist on Nov 16, 2017 9:28:49 GMT -5
It's sort of darkly funny - those aged 16-17 for example cannot vote (and I'm not arguing that they should) but something like Brexit is far, far more likely to have a significant impact upon them and their future than it is someone who is older and has already been in the workplace for years or who has retired already, etc. So there are how many older folks voting on this who will likely be dead and gone without having to really face the effects of it. That's the argument, which I understand. But it's never been before, so why should it have been changed for one vote? It should be changed for every vote, including this one.
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Post by ezlo on Nov 16, 2017 9:29:20 GMT -5
Didn't the 16-17 year olds have a vote on the Scottish Indy ref? They did I believe. But I'm not Scottish. I'm English. I never had the chance to vote on anything before I was 18. I don't see why that should have changed (and btw, I voted remain - even though I think there's a hell of a lot wrong with the EU). Doesn't change the fact that it's done and dusted and now it's down to the government that fucked it over in the first place to do something about it and get the best deal possible. Fair enough, I see your point. I was just asking because I couldn't really remember tbh. Regarding your last point, I guess it's fingers crossed now
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:30:00 GMT -5
Why? I'm young. I didn't get the chance to vote when I was below 18. ffs, 18 is the minimum voting age. I'm sick of Brexit. I'm sick of the debate. It's over. None of this whole fucking ridiculous concept of things not being right or it being skewed. 16-17 year olds never had a vote on anything before so why should that have changed now? It's happened. We all need to get over it. Because they clearly should be able to vote. If you can be sent to a desert in the middle east with an assault rifle and a good-luck, you should also be able to vote in a referendum.
The silver lining is that the massive inability of the government to bring about Brexit may just lead to the destruction of the Conservatives.
Well that's purely down to changing the law then - which I'm fine with. But that has to be done for all votes, not just one. We can't just get outraged about that factor now because remain (which I voted for) lost... d'you get me? However, you're argument was that it should have been changed for one vote - the referendum - or at least that has been the argument by others.
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:31:03 GMT -5
People who are so liberal they take everything to the extreme... I'm not calling them Communists, obviously, but the people who are looking for offence or tragedy or atrocity at every given opportunity - just like the far-right look for any excuse to be fascist or racist. Far-left is very different from liberal - I'm far-left, so I should know. We want to abolish private property, they want to tax property owners a bit more. There's similarities, but no such thing as a "far-left liberal".
I don't think that another referendum is needed, but I do think there's a strong case that the original one wasn't all that democratic. Young people not voting, the massive amount of lies on both sides, the general context which meant people were voting more on immigration than the EU, the narrow majority achieved, the fact that a lot of people would now change their leave vote. I don't necessarily agree with all these things, but I see where they're coming from. The utter disaster of the Brexit negotiations isn't helping either.
My problem with what Noel said is that he called Nigel Farage "a lad", something infinitely more offensive than a joke about Liam's kidneys.
erm, mate he didn't say that he didn't mention Farage...
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Post by ezlo on Nov 16, 2017 9:31:09 GMT -5
People who are so liberal they take everything to the extreme... I'm not calling them Communists, obviously, but the people who are looking for offence or tragedy or atrocity at every given opportunity - just like the far-right look for any excuse to be fascist or racist. Far-left is very different from liberal - I'm far-left, so I should know. We want to abolish private property, they want to tax property owners a bit more. There's similarities, but no such thing as a "far-left liberal".
I don't think that another referendum is needed, but I do think there's a strong case that the original one wasn't all that democratic. Young people not voting, the massive amount of lies on both sides, the general context which meant people were voting more on immigration than the EU, the narrow majority achieved, the fact that a lot of people would now change their leave vote. I don't necessarily agree with all these things, but I see where they're coming from. The utter disaster of the Brexit negotiations isn't helping either.
My problem with what Noel said is that he called Nigel Farage "a lad", something infinitely more offensive than a joke about Liam's kidneys.
I think it's the other way around, Nigel Farage called Noel a lad. Don't think Noel would call Farage a lad (well at least I hope not)
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Post by thewalruswaspaul on Nov 16, 2017 9:31:12 GMT -5
If you watched the whole noisy interview I think he stated that he thought the vote never should've happened in the first place because your average person doesn't understand the benefits/ consequences of it and he personally didn't vote because of that and that. As well as that his view was that Britain should've stayed in the EU. So it seems more to me that he's not so much on board with it, but rather that he thinks the vote should be respected
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:32:42 GMT -5
If you watched the whole noisy interview I think he stated that he thought the vote never should've happened in the first place because your average person doesn't understand the benefits/ consequences of it and he personally didn't vote because of that and that. As well as that his view was that Britain should've stayed in the EU. So it seems more to me that he's not so much on board with it, but rather that he thinks the vote should be respectedThat is literally all he said mate. And he's spot on.
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:33:32 GMT -5
Far-left is very different from liberal - I'm far-left, so I should know. We want to abolish private property, they want to tax property owners a bit more. There's similarities, but no such thing as a "far-left liberal".
I don't think that another referendum is needed, but I do think there's a strong case that the original one wasn't all that democratic. Young people not voting, the massive amount of lies on both sides, the general context which meant people were voting more on immigration than the EU, the narrow majority achieved, the fact that a lot of people would now change their leave vote. I don't necessarily agree with all these things, but I see where they're coming from. The utter disaster of the Brexit negotiations isn't helping either.
My problem with what Noel said is that he called Nigel Farage "a lad", something infinitely more offensive than a joke about Liam's kidneys.
I think it's the other way around, Nigel Farage called Noel a lad. Don't think Noel would call Farage a lad (well at least I hope not) It was. Farage quoted Noel's "we need to get over it" soundbite and commented "lad"
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Post by joladella on Nov 16, 2017 9:35:08 GMT -5
If you watched the whole noisy interview I think he stated that he thought the vote never should've happened in the first place because your average person doesn't understand the benefits/ consequences of it and he personally didn't vote because of that and that. As well as that his view was that Britain should've stayed in the EU. So it seems more to me that he's not so much on board with it, but rather that he thinks the vote should be respectedThat is literally all he said mate. And he's spot on. He also said it's kind of "fascism" to not accept that vote, which is a bit strongly worded.
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Post by mancraider on Nov 16, 2017 9:36:03 GMT -5
Easy to say deal with it when you're a multi millionaire and it's possible effects won't effect your life in any way. I'm not a multi-millionaire (yet, anyway...) I'm 22. I'm going to grow up with this decision as well. I couldn't care less. It's done. It's over. It's only going to effect my life if I keep obsessing over the fact it might effect my life. Good for you. Maybe you would be worried if you were living hand to mouth already and you feared your life spinning out of control if prices shoot up as predicted by virally every sensible economist and you haven't had a pay rise in years due to the tories austerity policies. If you were worried about losing your house because you might not be able to afford the mortgage or even feeding your kids. You may very well be fine and not worried but a hell of a lot of people are, even many who voted leave but now regret it. Personally I don't think it'll happen. Or if it dooes it'll be reversed, at least partially, shortly afterwards. The core people who are pushing for it are billionaires looking to avoid the EU anti tax avoidence laws due to kick in 2019. Tories party backers and Newspaper owners mostly. They don't give a fuck about you and will destroy your life without a second thought as long as they kept their money. There was a reason the Media helped stir up bigotry and racial tensions before the vote, and it had nothing to do with making life better for 'real' Brits.
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:39:45 GMT -5
That is literally all he said mate. And he's spot on. He also said it's kind of "fascism" to not accept that vote, which is a bit strongly worded. Well, he said "they used to call that fascism" Which, while perhaps strongly worded, isn't too far off the truth
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Post by bt95 on Nov 16, 2017 9:46:08 GMT -5
I'm not a multi-millionaire (yet, anyway...) I'm 22. I'm going to grow up with this decision as well. I couldn't care less. It's done. It's over. It's only going to effect my life if I keep obsessing over the fact it might effect my life. Good for you. Maybe you would be worried if you were living hand to mouth already and you feared your life spinning out of control if prices shoot up as predicted by virally every sensible economist and you haven't had a pay rise in years due to the tories austerity policies. If you were worried about losing your house because you might not be able to afford the mortgage or even feeding your kids. You may very well be fine and not worried but a hell of a lot of people are, even many who voted leave but now regret it. Personally I don't think it'll happen. Or if it dooes it'll be reversed, at least partially, shortly afterwards. The core people who are pushing for it are billionaires looking to avoid the EU anti tax avoidence laws due to kick in 2019. Tories party backers and Newspaper owners mostly. They don't give a fuck about you and will destroy your life without a second thought as long as they kept their money. There was a reason the Media helped stir up bigotry and racial tensions before the vote, and it had nothing to do with making life better for 'real' Brits. But these same economists were the ones who said it'd be a disaster for us not to join the Euro - just as an example. That's where remain went wrong. They used fear to try and scare people into it. People who were already scared - for the reasons you state above, but instead of bucking to that, the majority seemed to see straight through it. Maybe if remain had focused more on the positives of staying in the EU, than the negatives of leaving it, it'd have been different. I want to start a family soon, and I know it's going to be tough. I haven't been to university as such but I'm fortunate to have a job I love doing and that I worked bloody hard to get into. I didn't have a head start in life either. And I'm well aware of all the driving forces behind Brexit as well. As I said, it's a shit show. It should never have been called to vote in the first place but my point is, I don't think that anybody will be worse off after this happens than they are now - probably just a sad reflection on how much of a state the country/world is in at the moment. That's perhaps a better way of putting it. But there's still joy to be had in life. And all I get is people panicking. Panic creates panic. Fear creates more fear. That's what they (the elite) want.
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Post by liamgallagher1992 on Nov 16, 2017 9:49:23 GMT -5
Noel didnt say he supports it so the backing of Farage is just ridiculous.
However, Noel please shut the fuck up about politics forever. It actually makes me realise you arent that knowledgeable at all. When he talks about terrorism i fucking cringe all the time. It come at a time when we turned our backs on France? Really? How did we do that then? There was many a show of solidarity publicly and it was fucking brilliant how much we all shown togtherness towards a nation we have received quite hostile stuff from in the past. Does Noel know we arent a British Empire and have stuff like the United Nations now? We cant and wont "turn our backs" on anyone.
As for complaining about his family having to travel around London and our government do fuck all, im just like wow. Its like lets just forget the hundreds of terrorist plots the government have stopped in the last few years and talk about the small minority of idiots who make a small bomb between a few of them and slip through the net because my family are involved now.
Fucking absolute idiot when it comes to politics.
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