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Post by mancraider on Nov 15, 2017 5:07:13 GMT -5
If you consider influence/importance in music, Noel is clearly very far away from Dylan, Lennon and McCartney, Brian Wilson, etc. But for me personally, only 2-3 other songwriters in history have so many songs that connect with me so deeply. For instance, while I acknowledge Dylan's importance, the only albums that really connect to me and that I have been listening to on a regular basis for years are "Blood on the Tracks" and "Blonde on Blonde", and even in the second one I usually skip a few tracks. So I prefer Noel over Dylan even though it would be foolish to say that Noel is "better" than Dylan funnily enough despite being a massive dylan fan I've never really considered blonde on blonde a great album even though most single it out as his greatest work. Freewheeling, Time they are a changing, Highway 61, Blood on the tracks all far superior as albums in my eyes. Some great songs on it for sure but never listen to it as a complete work. |
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Post by andymorris on Nov 15, 2017 5:07:44 GMT -5
If you consider influence/importance in music, Noel is clearly very far away from Dylan, Lennon and McCartney, Brian Wilson, etc. But for me personally, only 2-3 other songwriters in history have so many songs that connect with me so deeply. For instance, while I acknowledge Dylan's importance, the only albums that really connect to me and that I have been listening to on a regular basis for years are "Blood on the Tracks" and "Blonde on Blonde", and even in the second one I usually skip a few tracks. So I prefer Noel over Dylan even though it would be foolish to say that Noel is "better" than Dylan Noel Gallagher shaped the 90s, but times were different from the 60s. There was no musical revolution. I love the Rolling Stones, early Dylan, but to me Noel is a better melodist. The Stones are very animalistic while Dylan is more of a poet. Noel is a melodist. All are very, very different. The Beatles are in another universe, they cant be touched, even by Noely G. That said, it's a bit hard to compare those songwriters because they come from different eras. Who knows what the mind of Noel Gallagher would have created in the 60s ? Maybe he would have grabbed the melodies that Lennon/Macca grabbed. Most songwriters will tell you they take songs that are floating in the air. |
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Post by andymorris on Nov 15, 2017 5:10:21 GMT -5
Hi guys, not that I am expecting anybody to believe me but I have heard the album in full now and it's really very good. Not as "out there" as everyone is saying but definitely out there for Noel. IABW is an amazing tune, the JH performance does it no justice. I am posting here to say DitW is my favourite track on the album. It's haunting and melancholic. I am disappointed that it's my favourite as it's the most normal Noel track on the album and it actually doesn't fit the feel, vibe or the flow of the album at all but I am not one to complain about extra tunes. Peace thanks for that, if true. Looking forward to your review. Of course Dead in the Water does not fit, how could it  |
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Post by seanrulesrh on Nov 15, 2017 5:45:05 GMT -5
I know that The Beatles were the first ones,the ones who started picking a guitar and writing their own songs. But come on,they deserve to be respected but take a look at the lyrics...the melodies are alright,the production is quit bad at that point and there were more 60s music that sounded so much better in quality terms. I know that we all must thank them for what they started and who inspired,but take them to the point of saying that they're untouchable...
People is going to eat me alive after this but its my opinnion lads,so calm down
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Post by AubreyOasis on Nov 15, 2017 5:49:37 GMT -5
If you consider influence/importance in music, Noel is clearly very far away from Dylan, Lennon and McCartney, Brian Wilson, etc. But for me personally, only 2-3 other songwriters in history have so many songs that connect with me so deeply. For instance, while I acknowledge Dylan's importance, the only albums that really connect to me and that I have been listening to on a regular basis for years are "Blood on the Tracks" and "Blonde on Blonde", and even in the second one I usually skip a few tracks. So I prefer Noel over Dylan even though it would be foolish to say that Noel is "better" than Dylan funnily enough despite being a massive dylan fan I've never really considered blonde on blonde a great album even though most single it out as his greatest work. Freewheeling, Time they are a changing, Highway 61, Blood on the tracks all far superior as albums in my eyes. Some great songs on it for sure but never listen to it as a complete work. Well, I have to say that happens to me with many Dylan albums: even in his 80's albums there are some amazing songs, but I always end skipping some others. Probably part of the reason is that I am not a native english speaker, so I sometimes don't get the lyrics completely (that is not usually a big problem with Noel ;-) ) |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 15, 2017 5:58:18 GMT -5
Sheesh, no mention of Ray Davies anywhere. He was right up there. Lyrically he was arguably ahead of any of those around that time, British songwriters anyway. Some of the chord progressions and song structures he was putting together were incredible too.
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 15, 2017 6:00:18 GMT -5
If you consider influence/importance in music, Noel is clearly very far away from Dylan, Lennon and McCartney, Brian Wilson, etc. But for me personally, only 2-3 other songwriters in history have so many songs that connect with me so deeply. For instance, while I acknowledge Dylan's importance, the only albums that really connect to me and that I have been listening to on a regular basis for years are "Blood on the Tracks" and "Blonde on Blonde", and even in the second one I usually skip a few tracks. So I prefer Noel over Dylan even though it would be foolish to say that Noel is "better" than Dylan funnily enough despite being a massive dylan fan I've never really considered blonde on blonde a great album even though most single it out as his greatest work. Freewheeling, Time they are a changing, Highway 61, Blood on the tracks all far superior as albums in my eyes. Some great songs on it for sure but never listen to it as a complete work. I agree with that. Highway 61 is the one for me. I do like Blonde and Blonde and it has great songs but also for me it doesn't work as a great album. I'm the same with the White Album by The Beatles. The best moments on it stand up to the best moments of their career but too much of it can be skipped. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 15, 2017 6:01:19 GMT -5
What defines a great songwriter though? Surely if I prefer Noel's songs in general to Lennon's, then Noel is for me the better songwriter?If we define it by legacy in the public domain, then surely Lennon and McCartney are the best songwriters ever? I think its still possible to maintain a little objectivity about it, Matt Le Tissier is by far and away my favourite footballer of all time but I know he isn't as great as Messi, Ronaldo, Diego Maradona, Franz Beckenbauer etc. |
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Post by mancraider on Nov 15, 2017 6:07:33 GMT -5
funnily enough despite being a massive dylan fan I've never really considered blonde on blonde a great album even though most single it out as his greatest work. Freewheeling, Time they are a changing, Highway 61, Blood on the tracks all far superior as albums in my eyes. Some great songs on it for sure but never listen to it as a complete work. Well, I have to say that happens to me with many Dylan albums: even in his 80's albums there are some amazing songs, but I always end skipping some others. Probably part of the reason is that I am not a native english speaker, so I sometimes don't get the lyrics completely (that is not usually a big problem with Noel ;-) ) I'd think most feel like that about later albums although I agree there are great songs on all of them. Returning to the original point about Noel though I think a characteristic that defines great artists is the willingness to destroy their legacy in pursuit of growth. Like dylan going electric or bowie killing ziggy. I think Noel is trying to do this in a rather clumsy way by the parka monkey type comments and calling his new music revolutionary but im not buying it personally. But if I others want to put him in that company then fair enough. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 15, 2017 6:39:17 GMT -5
What defines a great songwriter though? Surely if I prefer Noel's songs in general to Lennon's, then Noel is for me the better songwriter?If we define it by legacy in the public domain, then surely Lennon and McCartney are the best songwriters ever? I think its still possible to maintain a little objectivity about it, Matt Le Tissier is by far and away my favourite footballer of all time but I know he isn't as great as Messi, Ronaldo, Diego Maradona, Franz Beckenbauer etc. Funnily enough, lots of the Spanish players like Xavi were in awe of Le Tissier growing up and couldn't understand why England didn't build a team around him. Only England would basically outcast a player with such talent. But that's for another discussion on another forum haha. He's one of my favourites too, although i'm not a Southampton fan. |
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Post by durk on Nov 15, 2017 6:41:10 GMT -5
This has wound up being such a great thread to read.
Thx members and mods for allowing a free flow of thoughts without the schlock.
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Nov 15, 2017 6:54:28 GMT -5
What defines a great songwriter though? Surely if I prefer Noel's songs in general to Lennon's, then Noel is for me the better songwriter?If we define it by legacy in the public domain, then surely Lennon and McCartney are the best songwriters ever? I think its still possible to maintain a little objectivity about it, Matt Le Tissier is by far and away my favourite footballer of all time but I know he isn't as great as Messi, Ronaldo, Diego Maradona, Franz Beckenbauer etc. I think NG has cemented his place to sit easily alongside the greats like Lennon and McCartney. Some of his songs will stand the test of time like The Beatles did. And I connect far more with many of his songs than I do the likes of the Stones, Dylan, etc. So yes, after Lennon and McCartney he is my favourite songwriter, from a personal POV, and because I genuinely think he has earned his place in history too. Christ, its hard to believe this is an Oasis forum sometimes, the amount of negativity on here... |
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Post by mossy on Nov 15, 2017 10:24:24 GMT -5
I think its still possible to maintain a little objectivity about it, Matt Le Tissier is by far and away my favourite footballer of all time but I know he isn't as great as Messi, Ronaldo, Diego Maradona, Franz Beckenbauer etc. I think NG has cemented his place to sit easily alongside the greats like Lennon and McCartney. Some of his songs will stand the test of time like The Beatles did. And I connect far more with many of his songs than I do the likes of the Stones, Dylan, etc. So yes, after Lennon and McCartney he is my favourite songwriter, from a personal POV, and because I genuinely think he has earned his place in history too. Christ, its hard to believe this is an Oasis forum sometimes, the amount of negativity on here... Internet hug coming your way babe.  X |
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 15, 2017 10:32:22 GMT -5
I think its still possible to maintain a little objectivity about it, Matt Le Tissier is by far and away my favourite footballer of all time but I know he isn't as great as Messi, Ronaldo, Diego Maradona, Franz Beckenbauer etc. I think NG has cemented his place to sit easily alongside the greats like Lennon and McCartney. Some of his songs will stand the test of time like The Beatles did. And I connect far more with many of his songs than I do the likes of the Stones, Dylan, etc.
So yes, after Lennon and McCartney he is my favourite songwriter, from a personal POV, and because I genuinely think he has earned his place in history too. Christ, its hard to believe this is an Oasis forum sometimes, the amount of negativity on here... That's the key, for me. Yes, Dylan, Wilson, Mercury, May, Jagger, Richards, and a long etc. have also written great tunes that will stand the test of time, but I don't think anyone outside Lennon and McCartney has written so many era-defining songs as Noel Gallagher. When it comes to mastery over the three-minute pop song, it's Macca, Lennon, and Noel as the holy trinity. Everyone else can get in line. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 15, 2017 12:42:36 GMT -5
I think its still possible to maintain a little objectivity about it, Matt Le Tissier is by far and away my favourite footballer of all time but I know he isn't as great as Messi, Ronaldo, Diego Maradona, Franz Beckenbauer etc. I think NG has cemented his place to sit easily alongside the greats like Lennon and McCartney. Some of his songs will stand the test of time like The Beatles did. And I connect far more with many of his songs than I do the likes of the Stones, Dylan, etc. So yes, after Lennon and McCartney he is my favourite songwriter, from a personal POV, and because I genuinely think he has earned his place in history too. Christ, its hard to believe this is an Oasis forum sometimes, the amount of negativity on here... What is negative about my post? Is it that I might not think Noel Gallagher is the GOAT? |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Nov 15, 2017 13:18:37 GMT -5
How is thinking Noel isn't as good as Lennon, McCartney etc. negativity? I certainly don't hold him in SUCH high regard.
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 15, 2017 13:24:59 GMT -5
How is thinking Noel isn't as good as Lennon, McCartney etc. negativity? I certainly don't hold him in SUCH high regard. Well it is an Oasis forum, i'd imagine a lot of people here hold Noel in such high regard and Oasis is their favourite band if they can dedicate some time to a forum. I'd suppose if you go on a Radiohead forum, plenty of people will say Thom Yorke is up there with Lennon/McCartney or better and if you don't agree, you're being negative. Anyway, i think the general feeling on a dedicated internet forum isn't a reflection on the general publics view of great songwriters anyway. The general public mostly consider Noel has a 3 chord hack and Beatles copyist. Obviously that's not true but i don't think he is held in such high regard as a writer in general compared to many others. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 15, 2017 13:30:09 GMT -5
I think its still possible to maintain a little objectivity about it, Matt Le Tissier is by far and away my favourite footballer of all time but I know he isn't as great as Messi, Ronaldo, Diego Maradona, Franz Beckenbauer etc. Funnily enough, lots of the Spanish players like Xavi were in awe of Le Tissier growing up and couldn't understand why England didn't build a team around him. Only England would basically outcast a player with such talent. But that's for another discussion on another forum haha. He's one of my favourites too, although i'm not a Southampton fan. Haha sometimes I dream about an England team built around Le God. |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Nov 15, 2017 13:30:33 GMT -5
How is thinking Noel isn't as good as Lennon, McCartney etc. negativity? I certainly don't hold him in SUCH high regard. Well it is an Oasis forum, i'd imagine a lot of people here hold Noel in such high regard and Oasis is their favourite band if they can dedicate some time to a forum. I'd suppose if you go on a Radiohead forum, plenty of people will say Thom Yorke is up there with Lennon/McCartney or better and if you don't agree, you're being negative. Anyway, i think the general feeling on a dedicated internet forum isn't a reflection on the general publics view of great songwriters anyway. The general public mostly consider Noel has a 3 chord hack and Beatles copyist. Obviously that's not true but i don't think he is held in such high regard as a writer in general compared to many others. I'm glad I'm also on a Beatles forum. |
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Post by Bellboy on Nov 15, 2017 13:36:28 GMT -5
Humble mention to Pete Townsend. Up there with the genius's of songwriters for me.
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Post by ricardogce on Nov 15, 2017 13:46:14 GMT -5
The Who had too much filler. Same problem Queen had. All-time classics without a doubt, but from a purely songwriting perspective, they fall just shy.
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Post by andymorris on Nov 15, 2017 13:48:06 GMT -5
How is thinking Noel isn't as good as Lennon, McCartney etc. negativity? I certainly don't hold him in SUCH high regard. Well it is an Oasis forum, i'd imagine a lot of people here hold Noel in such high regard and Oasis is their favourite band if they can dedicate some time to a forum. I'd suppose if you go on a Radiohead forum, plenty of people will say Thom Yorke is up there with Lennon/McCartney or better and if you don't agree, you're being negative. Anyway, i think the general feeling on a dedicated internet forum isn't a reflection on the general publics view of great songwriters anyway. The general public mostly consider Noel has a 3 chord hack and Beatles copyist. Obviously that's not true but i don't think he is held in such high regard as a writer in general compared to many others. The general public does not consider music as very important. When a song comes on it's like "yeah cool, i like that tune", that's about it really. |
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Nov 15, 2017 14:19:52 GMT -5
Well it is an Oasis forum, i'd imagine a lot of people here hold Noel in such high regard and Oasis is their favourite band if they can dedicate some time to a forum. I'd suppose if you go on a Radiohead forum, plenty of people will say Thom Yorke is up there with Lennon/McCartney or better and if you don't agree, you're being negative. Anyway, i think the general feeling on a dedicated internet forum isn't a reflection on the general publics view of great songwriters anyway. The general public mostly consider Noel has a 3 chord hack and Beatles copyist. Obviously that's not true but i don't think he is held in such high regard as a writer in general compared to many others. The general public does not consider music as very important. When a song comes on it's like "yeah cool, i like that tune", that's about it really. Well yeah, very true. But if you get into a music debate with a lot of people, which i advise not to, most hold Noel Gallagher in lower regard than people on this forum do, that's all i'm saying. Normal really, it's a fan forum. Just depends what you're into or where you're from too. For instance, i'd imagine most American's that consider music as important and that even remember Oasis just consider them a one hit wonder or something and probably think they've barely made any other songs. They would find it laughable that Noel Gallagher is in the conversation of great songwriters in history. Even here in England, most people that i know that consider themselves "knowledgeable" about music probably don't rate him that highly. Many just have the lazy idea that he is a rip-off artist and not much more. It's all subjective at the end of the day. For me personally, i find him one of the best melodists of his era and wrote some of the most instant songs of his time, especially for a few years in the 90's. There's a few writers from his era who's music I prefer and i consider them as more gifted composers. But even then it all depends what i'm after at that time. If i want to blast some tunes out and have instant good songs, then Noel Gallagher as a writer is about as good as it gets. If i want to put on a good pair of headphones and listen to all the musical textures and detailed composition, then i'll take something like OK Computer any day of the week over any album Noel could make. That's why it's difficult to compare writers to each other. I think everyone has their place depending on what you're after at the time. That's the beauty of music really. |
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Nov 15, 2017 14:24:14 GMT -5
I think NG has cemented his place to sit easily alongside the greats like Lennon and McCartney. Some of his songs will stand the test of time like The Beatles did. And I connect far more with many of his songs than I do the likes of the Stones, Dylan, etc. So yes, after Lennon and McCartney he is my favourite songwriter, from a personal POV, and because I genuinely think he has earned his place in history too. Christ, its hard to believe this is an Oasis forum sometimes, the amount of negativity on here... What is negative about my post? Is it that I might not think Noel Gallagher is the GOAT? It wasn't aimed at you in particular, even though I was quoting your post. I would just expect to find huge Oasis fans on an Oasis forum, and normally if you are a fan I would have thought you would also hold the songwriter in high regard. Obviously I am wrong. It seems Noel is nothing more than a laughing stock on here, judging by some members posts. Strangely Noel is held in high regard by quite a few music critics and peers, judging by the various things I have read in the past. |
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Post by AdidasNG72 on Nov 15, 2017 14:25:58 GMT -5
I think NG has cemented his place to sit easily alongside the greats like Lennon and McCartney. Some of his songs will stand the test of time like The Beatles did. And I connect far more with many of his songs than I do the likes of the Stones, Dylan, etc. So yes, after Lennon and McCartney he is my favourite songwriter, from a personal POV, and because I genuinely think he has earned his place in history too. Christ, its hard to believe this is an Oasis forum sometimes, the amount of negativity on here... Internet hug coming your way babe. X  |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5