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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 13:03:36 GMT -5
I loved TMOS until a friend pointed out the Gimme Shelter similarities. I was catapulted out of the Oasis bubble and made the realization that when put up against actual good songs it falls flat on its face.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Oct 21, 2015 13:12:10 GMT -5
I loved TMOS until a friend pointed out the Gimme Shelter similarities. I was catapulted out of the Oasis bubble and made the realization that when put up against actual good songs it falls flat on its face. Well when you put it up against the greatest song of all time it is shit.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 21, 2015 14:35:49 GMT -5
I also feel Sardy gets unfair praise, like you said the album was recorded 2-3 times before Dave got involved and the two big singles had nothing to do with him. I don't think he does deserve praise because I think he probably didn't change the songs that much. I mean a lot of them sound like they could have been recorded in different places. I like that about the album but as the producer I don't think he shaped the sound or feel of the record, more just finished off recordings that were already there. I think Sardy has been made a bit of scapegoat tbh. Dig Out Your Soul sounds good to my ears, NGHFB has some obvious problems like the drumming for example but I don't know how much you can add to a Noel Gallagher solo record with him having the final say. Noel signed off on it so it must have been how he wanted it. Sardy's best Gallagher brothe related work was on DOYS for sure. My biggest knock of this era is mostly Noel selecting all the wrong songs for the 2nd side and not polishing off Record Machin and Come On Outside. Blaming it all on Liam was always super lame to my ears. I wish Sardy was more forceful with Noel and challenging him. Great producers do that.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Oct 21, 2015 15:06:12 GMT -5
I don't think he does deserve praise because I think he probably didn't change the songs that much. I mean a lot of them sound like they could have been recorded in different places. I like that about the album but as the producer I don't think he shaped the sound or feel of the record, more just finished off recordings that were already there. I think Sardy has been made a bit of scapegoat tbh. Dig Out Your Soul sounds good to my ears, NGHFB has some obvious problems like the drumming for example but I don't know how much you can add to a Noel Gallagher solo record with him having the final say. Noel signed off on it so it must have been how he wanted it. Sardy's best Gallagher brothe related work was on DOYS for sure. My biggest knock of this era is mostly Noel selecting all the wrong songs for the 2nd side and not polishing off Record Machin and Come On Outside. Blaming it all on Liam was always super lame to my ears. I wish Sardy was more forceful with Noel and challenging him. Great producers do that. Yeah I totally agree I wish he had challenged the band more, but to put it simply I don't think that was in his brief. I don't think he was ever really given the reins or even part of them. I think from Oasis's early recording career where Owen Morris provided the recording knowledge for Noel to get the sound he wanted down. I don't think Noel has ever fully given that over that responsibility to someone else and thus its unfair to blame him.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Oct 21, 2015 15:11:49 GMT -5
Sardy's best Gallagher brothe related work was on DOYS for sure. My biggest knock of this era is mostly Noel selecting all the wrong songs for the 2nd side and not polishing off Record Machin and Come On Outside. Blaming it all on Liam was always super lame to my ears. I wish Sardy was more forceful with Noel and challenging him. Great producers do that. Yeah I totally agree I wish he had challenged the band more, but to put it simply I don't think that was in his brief. I don't think he was ever really given the reins or even part of them. I think from Oasis's early recording career where Owen Morris provided the recording knowledge for Noel to get the sound he wanted down. I don't think Noel has ever fully given that over that responsibility to someone else and thus its unfair to blame him. Its possible you are right, which begs the question of Noel and his management as to why they felt the need to hire a producer for a high fee or even a percentage on various albums....
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Post by tomlivesforever on Oct 21, 2015 15:15:42 GMT -5
Yeah I totally agree I wish he had challenged the band more, but to put it simply I don't think that was in his brief. I don't think he was ever really given the reins or even part of them. I think from Oasis's early recording career where Owen Morris provided the recording knowledge for Noel to get the sound he wanted down. I don't think Noel has ever fully given that over that responsibility to someone else and thus its unfair to blame him. Its possible you are right, which begs the question of Noel and his management as to why they felt the need to hire a producer for a high fee or even a percentage on various albums.... Someone with the expertise to get the album recorded properly (people in management may have been more realistic about Noel's effort with HC than he was) who wasn't going to cause any massive row's or fall outs.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Oct 21, 2015 15:18:44 GMT -5
Its possible you are right, which begs the question of Noel and his management as to why they felt the need to hire a producer for a high fee or even a percentage on various albums.... Someone with the expertise to get the album recorded properly (people in management may have been more realistic about Noel's effort with HC than he was) who wasn't going to cause any massive row's or fall outs. Well made point, if HC and the Proud Mary LP were the peak of his production talents I can see exactly where you are coming from
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2015 15:21:15 GMT -5
I loved TMOS until a friend pointed out the Gimme Shelter similarities. I was catapulted out of the Oasis bubble and made the realization that when put up against actual good songs it falls flat on its face. Well when you put it up against the greatest song of all time it is shit. Word. As it turns out, I actually meant Jumping Jack Flash! ("it's alllllllllright"). And just to throw it out there, I might have to vote for Paint It Black for greatest song ever...
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Post by mystoryisgory on Oct 21, 2015 15:30:42 GMT -5
The only songs that weren't produced by Sardy are Lyla and The Importance Of Being Idle, I believe. And possibly mucky fingers Mucky Fingers was produced by Strangeboy Stacey in the same (demo?) sessions as Sittin' Here in Silence and Those Swollen Hand Blues. Guess that's why it feels so much more energetic than practically everything else in this era and has the same sound effect as TSHB.
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Post by Headmaster on Oct 21, 2015 16:34:20 GMT -5
I have to say that Lyla, TIOBI, POTQ and MF are actually well produced.
The problem are the other tracks, each one has its problems and sounds flat compared to those 4.
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Post by World71R on Oct 21, 2015 18:08:56 GMT -5
Each to their own, I guess. I do agree on the Dave Sardy bit though. Dig Out Your Soul sounds good to me, but it sounds different from DBTT and HFB1. I don't know why or how. I like the way DOYS was produced, but DBTT and HFB1 sound old to me, and not in the way the Beatles sound old. I think the answer might be quite straightforward. DBTT was a collection of songs put together and recorded by Oasis a few times before Sardy was asked to do anything. Dig Out Your Soul was an album where Noel was attempting something slightly different and with some of the songs written during the studio time Sardy probably had a bigger input into the sound of the songs or at least was present throughout. NGHFB judging by the demo's were largely together and Noel just wanted them produced, there is little fuss added to those songs which suggest to me they were mostly just finished off to Noe's satisfaction. I used to give Sardy a hard time tbh but I think these day's he's an easy target and really not responsible for a lot of the sounds on those records. I don't think he's a great producer but I don't think he deserves the shit thrown his way. Who's fault is it that an average vocal take on LLAB made the album? Liam should have probably had a second listen to it before he ok'd it. And things like that go for the tracklist of Dig Out Your Soul and the flat area's of NGHFB's. This is why I think that the first two albums, SOTSOG, DOYS, and CY were so good sonically because it was more producer-driven than anything else Noel, or the band, had done. On the first two albums, you had Owen Morris really nailing down the basics for Noel and also contributing (the famous Wonderwall Mellotron part was played by Morris). Then, SOTSOG had Spike Stent teaching Noel new things to incorporate within the sound of the record, and DOYS was what you mentioned, but then CY was just Noel and Strangeboy, similar to SOTSOG, except there wasn't an actual 3rd party producer on hand. All of those albums explore new territory in one way or another, and I guess it now makes perfect sense why the DIV and AA projects were shelved.
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Post by World71R on Oct 21, 2015 18:14:01 GMT -5
I have to say that Lyla, TIOBI, POTQ and MF are actually well produced. The problem are the other tracks, each one has its problems and sounds flat compared to those 4. GGTIA is also pretty well produced, as is LTBL and TUTS. LLAB has the meh vocals, but the instrumental is still pretty good. KTDA is the same way, but I especially love the guitar work on that song and the production they did on it, even though some of the guitar parts could've been turned up a little. TMOS is pretty garage-y, as is ABWR, and it's a shame that the slide guitar isn't more present in the mix on the former. That's why I think Lord Don't Slow Me Down or Pass Me Down the Wine would've been better in ABWR's place, and Eyeball Tickler in TMOS's place. Tbh, though, I still enjoy this album very much, and the way it flows is really cool, along with the two aforementioned songs, but they do slow down the flow just a bit for me too, sooo yep.
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Post by Aman on Oct 22, 2015 6:44:00 GMT -5
Just listened to Let There Be Love again.
Oh my God, it really is terrible.
The chorus alone would drive me up the wall.
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Post by Aman on Oct 22, 2015 6:45:08 GMT -5
Worst single in Oasis history.
Yes, Sunday Morning Call is better!
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Post by carlober on Oct 22, 2015 8:16:14 GMT -5
Worst single in Oasis history. Yes, Sunday Morning Call is better! I hate with a passion the album version of LTBL. I can think of very few songs which are more plodding than that... it's got zero energy.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 22, 2015 8:18:27 GMT -5
Just listened to Let There Be Love again. Oh my God, it really is terrible. The chorus alone would drive me up the wall. It certainly leaves a lot to be desired....................... I'm not a fan of the pacing of the DBTT version at all. I loved the demo that leaked back in January 2000. I wish it was more in that vein. I feel like Noel and Sardy threw a ton of shit at the DBTT version. A lot going on but not making the song better in my humble opinion. Boy With The Blues should have ended DBTT.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 22, 2015 8:19:08 GMT -5
Worst single in Oasis history. Yes, Sunday Morning Call is better! Chop 90 seconds out of the song, kill the fake choir and maybe, just maybe, it would be a decent single!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 8:21:14 GMT -5
Worst single in Oasis history. Yes, Sunday Morning Call is better! Chop 90 seconds out of the song, kill the fake choir and maybe, just maybe, it would be a decent single! To paraphrase Clemenza; "Leave the choir, cut the wobble"
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Post by matt on Oct 22, 2015 9:42:42 GMT -5
It's a decent album - nothing more, nothing less. It does the bare minimum.
Like all Oasis albums post-90s, my attitude is just mere indifference towards it all (aside from SOTSOG which could have been very very good with a bit more work).
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Post by matt on Oct 22, 2015 11:16:38 GMT -5
And another thing about Let There Be Love, speed it up for christ sake. It is sooooooooooooooo slooooooooooow and plodding. The demo is much better.
Yet again, Dave Sardy does his mandatory sprinkling of shit on a song.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 22, 2015 11:23:05 GMT -5
And another thing about Let There Be Love, speed it up for christ sake. It is sooooooooooooooo slooooooooooow and plodding. The demo is much better. Yet again, Dave Sardy does his mandatory sprinkling of shit on a song. Imagine if LTBL had the production and workings of WPTWOTWOMS.....It should have been a huge, sweeping, quintessential Oasis ballad. Instead we got a drab throwaway.
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Post by matt on Oct 22, 2015 11:27:43 GMT -5
And another thing about Let There Be Love, speed it up for christ sake. It is sooooooooooooooo slooooooooooow and plodding. The demo is much better. Yet again, Dave Sardy does his mandatory sprinkling of shit on a song. Imagine if LTBL had the production and workings of WPTWOTWOMS.....It should have been a huge, sweeping, quintessential Oasis ballad. Instead we got a drab throwaway. Who Put The Weight is a good song, again, I just want it that wee bit faster. I love the orchestration on it, and if the band had been a bit more ambitious with a better producer and the kitchen sink treatment, with a tracklisting full of Noel songs (because he had the tunes to fill a full album again), then it would have been a very very good album.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 22, 2015 11:32:57 GMT -5
Imagine if LTBL had the production and workings of WPTWOTWOMS.....It should have been a huge, sweeping, quintessential Oasis ballad. Instead we got a drab throwaway. Who Put The Weight is a good song, again, I just want it that wee bit faster. I love the orchestration on it, and if the band had been a bit more ambitious with a better producer and the kitchen sink treatment, with a tracklisting full of Noel songs (because he had the tunes to fill a full album again), then it would have been a very very good album. To me it is an ok song. I'm glad it wasn't on DBTT and it is the type of song I feared Noel would constantly write once solo. Glad that didn't happen!
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Post by carryusall on Oct 22, 2015 11:37:48 GMT -5
And another thing about Let There Be Love, speed it up for christ sake. It is sooooooooooooooo slooooooooooow and plodding. The demo is much better. Yet again, Dave Sardy does his mandatory sprinkling of shit on a song. Imagine if LTBL had the production and workings of WPTWOTWOMS.....It should have been a huge, sweeping, quintessential Oasis ballad. Instead we got a drab throwaway. But do we need a huge, sweeping Oasis ballad? We already have so many. Isn't it at least interesting they tried something new, even if you don't judge it to be a success?
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Post by matt on Oct 22, 2015 11:43:57 GMT -5
Who Put The Weight is a good song, again, I just want it that wee bit faster. I love the orchestration on it, and if the band had been a bit more ambitious with a better producer and the kitchen sink treatment, with a tracklisting full of Noel songs (because he had the tunes to fill a full album again), then it would have been a very very good album. To me it is an ok song. I'm glad it wasn't on DBTT and it is the type of song I feared Noel would constantly write once solo. Glad that didn't happen! In the context of the songs on that album, I'd have liked it. Of course, it wouldn't have been my ideal scenario - that would have been a Death In Vegas album and some writing and production in the studio to fit their electronic/psychedelic vibes. But there's more chance of me becoming a billionaire tomorrow and hundreds of supermodels turning up at my doorstep and begging me to marry them than any ambition from Noel.
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