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Post by mystoryisgory on Sept 20, 2015 21:17:01 GMT -5
Besides UGHF, I can hardly think of any other user who made themselves so known on their day of registration. Way to go, @beherenowisbiblical!! That was what drove my comparison! And how the fuck do you know of that day, anyway? (Seriously). Well, ya know, I get bored every now and then. Every now and then I have fuck-all to do.... EDIT: And funnily enough, that was my 666th post!!
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Post by Aman on Sept 21, 2015 9:12:10 GMT -5
If I was a hardcore Oasis fan back in the 1990s and I was told Noel would hand over some songwriting duties to the bloke in Heavy Stereo, I would have had a heart attack. And Hurricane #1 Andy Bell would have garnered the same reaction. Indeed. How grim.
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Sept 21, 2015 9:28:13 GMT -5
Well if I knew Andy would write songs like Vapour Trail, I would have been very excited, but if I knew he would write what he has written in Oasis..well, you know.
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Post by spud on Sept 21, 2015 9:59:41 GMT -5
Grey in every sense.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Sept 21, 2015 10:27:06 GMT -5
Shit songs, shit production, and to be honest, while usually the saviour of a shit recording, Liam's worst vocal effort on recording ever. If I was a hardcore Oasis fan back in the 1990s and I was told Noel would hand over some songwriting duties to the bloke in Heavy Stereo, I would have had a heart attack. And Hurricane #1 Andy Bell would have garnered the same reaction.And the results were expected. A real ball ache for the band and this album pretty much signalled the death of Oasis, and any hope of an Achtung Baby-style critical and commercial revival were pulped to death with this album. Agreed. It's not as if either were in high demand, Heavy Stereo had made a so-so contribution to the Jam tribute album Fire & Skill, and were trying to make a second record whilst unaware (like everyone else at the time) that Alan McGee and Dick Green were negotiating to sell their remaining shares in Creation Records to Sony Music Entertainment. I doubt unless Gem somehow pulled a platinum seller out of the bag that SME would have been interested in retaining Heavy Stereo, and given McGee had started dropping bands from 1998 which had previously been unheard of at Creation then it isn't even set in stone the LP would have got a release. Andy Bell meanwhile was retired from music to all intents and purposes, as he says in the Hurricane #1 sleeve notes he had given his guitars away and was living a domestic life, with only Gay Dad trying to secure him after their lineup started to fragment following a press backlash and disappointing sales. If Noel and Ignition in particular hadn't hit the panic button they could have called off the Chateau de la Colle Noire sessions, brought everyone back and taken their time recruiting new members. Perhaps the road to go down would have been focusing the band a la The Kinks in terms of the brothers as the public face only, and hiring musicians and/or co-writers around them to try and move them along in terms of potential, which could well have led to the revival you mentioned previously.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 21, 2015 13:09:03 GMT -5
Shit songs, shit production, and to be honest, while usually the saviour of a shit recording, Liam's worst vocal effort on recording ever. If I was a hardcore Oasis fan back in the 1990s and I was told Noel would hand over some songwriting duties to the bloke in Heavy Stereo, I would have had a heart attack. And Hurricane #1 Andy Bell would have garnered the same reaction. And the results were expected. A real ball ache for the band and this album pretty much signalled the death of Oasis, and any hope of an Achtung Baby-style critical and commercial revival were pulped to death with this album. Most of the problems on the album have more to do with Noels contributions for me. As producer as well I think he takes the lion's share for that turd.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 21, 2015 13:46:45 GMT -5
Well if I knew Andy would write songs like Vapour Trail, I would have been very excited, but if I knew he would write what he has written in Oasis..well, you know. Back in 1999 I was kinda pumped for what Andy could bring to the table since I knew his history with Ride. Man did he really let me down outside "Turn Up The Sun". Gem on the other hand I had no expectations from, just thought he would be a handy guitar man but he actually contributed way more than I could have imagined. Top dude.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 21, 2015 13:48:31 GMT -5
Shit songs, shit production, and to be honest, while usually the saviour of a shit recording, Liam's worst vocal effort on recording ever. If I was a hardcore Oasis fan back in the 1990s and I was told Noel would hand over some songwriting duties to the bloke in Heavy Stereo, I would have had a heart attack. And Hurricane #1 Andy Bell would have garnered the same reaction. And the results were expected. A real ball ache for the band and this album pretty much signalled the death of Oasis, and any hope of an Achtung Baby-style critical and commercial revival were pulped to death with this album. Most of the problems on the album have more to do with Noels contributions for me. As producer as well I think he takes the lion's share for that turd. Noel producing the album was a mistake. Noel having writer's block and releasing an album was a mistake. Liam not singing the majority of songs during these sessions was a mistake. All in all, they probably should have waited until early 2003 to release their 5th album. Let Noel stockpile some new, better tunes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 14:03:46 GMT -5
Personally I liked it. Heathen Chemistry was an early prototype for the new Oasis and the experience of making that album ultimately reinvigorated Noel, who after the 90s hangover seemed to be quite uninspired, and led to two excellent albums Don't Believe the Truth and Dig Out Your Soul. The album still has some classics on it like 'Stop Crying Your Heart Out' and 'Little By Little' which when you consider the band was in a transition period is incredible. It shows how great a band Oasis were and how fantastic a songwriter Noel is that even an album many consider lacklustre is better than most other bands could ever hope to produce in their entire career.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 21, 2015 14:10:27 GMT -5
Personally I liked it. Heathen Chemistry was an early prototype for the new Oasis and the experience of making that album ultimately reinvigorated Noel, who after the 90s hangover seemed to be quite uninspired, and led to two excellent albums Don't Believe the Truth and Dig Out Your Soul. The album still has some classics on it like 'Stop Crying Your Heart Out' and 'Little By Little' which when you consider the band was in a transition period is incredible. It shows how great a band Oasis were and how fantastic a songwriter Noel is that even an album many consider lacklustre is better than most other bands could ever hope to produce in their entire career. Heathen Chemistry was a dark time for the band............................... - Oasis reversed course from the new sonic territory explored on SOTSOG and left us with cliche rock n roll. - Noel has said many times he wished someone else produced HC and that they probably needed more time off. - One could argue that DBTT was the album that broke Noel out of his songwriting funk. He seemed to have fun on that tour. I didn't feel that same energy on the HC tour at all. - Outside an Oasis forum, no one in the world would ever mention Heathen Chemistry and few would want an album to sound like that. It sold because it had the Oasis branding.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 14:13:43 GMT -5
lol Noel always thinks the band should have taken more time off. Lazy vagina he is
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Post by guigsysEstring on Sept 21, 2015 14:32:28 GMT -5
lol Noel always thinks the band should have taken more time off. Lazy vagina he is Although in fairness this would have been the right time to have done it. As other posters have said, get in a producer who can keep moving the SOTSOG sound forward, not give in to Liam (wanting THT out in Oct 01 as was originally slated), industry or management pressures and crafted a great follow up. Unfortunately by confirming two songwriters as band members and saying they were writing he opened it up to group contributions at a time when his own writing was at an low ebb, and the other songwriters were unproven for truly good songs IMO (Liam and Gem) whilst Andy's last outings had been in a dad rock vein using the worst of the 70's/Oasis sounds. That the LP sold as well as it did is as Lennon2217 said down to having Oasis branding. A real shame as a 2003 or 2004 era album with the right producer and songs could have been a great artistic and commercial success. Slightly off topic but I don't see what some people's issues are with Oasis taking three or four years between records when it was fine for REM, U2, RHCP, or bands of a similar size to do the same? It can be the difference between a bridging gap or flop record, and a real triumphant record.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 14:45:00 GMT -5
Personally I think if Oasis were ever going to take a significant amount of time off it should have been after Morning Glory and the tour that followed that. They should have taken about 3 or 4 years off, let the new lifestyle sink in and come to terms with the status they had reached. I think the Gallagher brothers have never been managed all that well to be honest. Some questionable decisions were made in Oasis and the management of Beady Eye made a significant contribution to the death of that band. Some of the managerial decisions in the High Flying Birds camp haven't been great either. It's difficult to say whether it's down to uncertain management or the influence of the Gallaghers themselves in some of these decisions.
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Post by Doc Lobster on Sept 21, 2015 14:53:41 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, Heathen Chemistry was the death of Oasis. I used to be a massive fan yet I completely lost interest in the band after its release. I gave them a bit of a chance when the Definitely Maybe DVD was released in 2004 (it was a reissue of their best album after all), only to be further put off by the band's (particularly, Noel's) views on music. I like to think that from 2002 to 2004 Noel had some sort of mental disease that turned him into a conservative Luddite ("I've only got 8 records and they're all different copies of I Am the Walrus"). Even in the early days when he was off his tits he seemed more open-minded.
Then TDOYAM happened and it brought me back here.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Sept 21, 2015 14:56:20 GMT -5
Personally I think if Oasis were ever going to take a significant amount of time off it should have been after Morning Glory and the tour that followed that. They should have taken about 3 or 4 years off, let the new lifestyle sink in and come to terms with the status they had reached. I think the Gallagher brothers have never been managed all that well to be honest. Some questionable decisions were made in Oasis and the management of Beady Eye made a significant contribution to the death of that band. Some of the managerial decisions in the High Flying Birds camp haven't been great either. It's difficult to say whether it's down to uncertain management or the influence of the Gallaghers themselves in some of these decisions. I agree with most of what you are saying, but would say regarding BE they were managed for the second LP cycle by Scott Rodgers of Quest Management, a man who has steered or assisted managerially in the careers of Arcade Fire, Bjork, Lily Allen, Paul McCartney and other major artists. The second LP with Dave Sitek producing would not have happened IMO without his involvement, as the band already seemed bereft of ideas after DGSS came out. BE were also unlucky in Gem Archer's injuries leading to multiple gig cancellations that cost them valuable new song exposure, not saying it would have made for multimillion sales but it could certainly have improved upon them. Liam's well documented affair, love child and subsequent divorce also split the band by all accounts, as well as distracting their main focal point from his duties as band frontman and mouthpiece. Finally in terms of management you can only do so much as the manager in terms of recommendations, etc. Noel has stated and been confirmed in multiple sources since that he wanted full artistic control, which he got for the band, but that also means he called the shots. Therefore a manager such as Marcus Russell can come up with the best ideas in the world, but if the band leader vetoes them that's the end of it, and I doubt Ignition wouldd want to have upset there only (and substantial) cash cow at that time.
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Post by batfink30 on Sept 21, 2015 15:26:57 GMT -5
It was woeful, absolutely woeful.
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Post by andrewmattcoles on Sept 21, 2015 15:45:15 GMT -5
It' wasn't shit, it isn't shit and won't be shit.
It's better than SOTSOG (the singles alone on HC are vastly superior). That said gas panic! Wipes the floor of anything after BHN
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Post by World71R on Sept 21, 2015 17:59:37 GMT -5
I think the band would've benefited from just taking about 2 years off after all that happened with Be Here Now, and then gone into the studio to work on an album, in 2000, with a 2001 release. I kind of wish that their fourth album would've been a combination of HC and SOTSOG, with SOTSOG production, and then gone from there with what they did with Don't Believe the Truth, Dig Out Your Soul, and so on. A track listing like this would've been cool in 2001 for the band's 4th album:
1. Fuckin' in the Bushes 2. Go Let it Out (2nd single) 3. Who Feels Love? 4. Let's All Make Believe 5. Little by Little (3rd single) 6. Gas Panic! 7. Where Did it All Go Wrong? (Demo Version) 8. Stop Crying Your Heart Out (1st single; a big ballad to hit the spot) 9. Shout it Out Loud 10. Roll it Over
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 21, 2015 18:08:29 GMT -5
One thing summed up Oasis' HC Era: The decision to not use THT's demo as the released version. The demo was loud, ambitious, different, and infectious whereas the album version was safe, generic, and bland.
Oh, and the idiotic idea to have us wait 30 minutes to listen to further shit with The Cage only compounded our miseries, too. What the fuck?
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 21, 2015 18:13:26 GMT -5
I think the band would've benefited from just taking about 2 years off after all that happened with Be Here Now, and then gone into the studio to work on an album, in 2000, with a 2001 release. Thinking back to societal times and the year 2000, now that you phrased it that way with listing out the years 2000 and 2001. It seems kind of fitting how Oasis were lost during that time, at the turn of the new century, where no one knew how society was going to be defined as - everything was changing, but nothing had changed yet, if that makes sense? - until 9/11 happened. I know Oasis were lost due to their own chronological line from the BHN backlash, losing two members, and coming off of drugs, but it just so happened when society seemed lost, too. No?
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Post by World71R on Sept 21, 2015 18:26:49 GMT -5
I think the band would've benefited from just taking about 2 years off after all that happened with Be Here Now, and then gone into the studio to work on an album, in 2000, with a 2001 release. Thinking back to societal times and the year 2000, now that you phrased it that way with listing out the years 2000 and 2001. It seems kind of fitting how Oasis were lost during that time, at the turn of the new century, where no one knew how society was going to be defined as - everything was changing, but nothing had changed yet, if that makes sense? - until 9/11 happened. I know Oasis were lost due to their own chronological line from the BHN backlash, losing two members, and coming off of drugs, but it just so happened when society seemed lost, too. No? That is a good point, and to me, it almost feels like a continuation of the rock elements of Radiohead's In Bends and OK Computer. Just look at Gas Panic!, Just Getting Older (wrote during SOTSOG era), Where Did it All Go Wrong, Sunday Morning Call, and even Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is. All of those share similar dark and introspective vibes as Karma Police, Lucky, Fake Plastic Trees, Paranoid Android, and Electioneering, and even JGO sounds like Fake Plastic Trees.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 21, 2015 18:43:34 GMT -5
It' wasn't shit, it isn't shit and won't be shit. It's better than SOTSOG (the singles alone on HC are vastly superior). That said gas panic! Wipes the floor of anything after BHN Heathen Chemistry has no life to it at all. Sure the singles were good and anthemic but does anyone really listen to the album tracks anymore? I sure don't. Dark times my friends, dark times............
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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 21, 2015 18:44:43 GMT -5
One thing summed up Oasis' HC Era: The decision to not use THT's demo as the released version. The demo was loud, ambitious, different, and infectious whereas the album version was safe, generic, and bland. Oh, and the idiotic idea to have us wait 30 minutes to listen to further shit with The Cage only compounded our miseries, too. What the fuck? All that bravado Noel had between 1994 and 1998 was seemingly lost between 1999 and 2005. It's like when Dr. Evil stole Austin Powers mojo.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Sept 21, 2015 18:56:50 GMT -5
I've said this before (recently) with regards to this topic:
Oasis fans are known to defend the band at all cost. We defend Be Here Now. We defend the hipsters' negative reviews. We defend the band's post-90s material generally. We defend the brothers Gallagher - both as a pair as well as individually. We defend a shit ton. So when we, this all-encompassing defensive fan base, lambastes something so relentlessly as we do with Heathen Chemistry, you know it's pretty fucking dire. Quite simply, singles aside, the album is indefensible.
Heathen Chemistry is like Chelsea's Deigo Costa - it's ugly, it's foul, it's offensive and when you think it may have gotten away with it (the singles), it's retroactively criticized some more. Poor.
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Post by guigsysEstring on Sept 21, 2015 19:44:56 GMT -5
One thing summed up Oasis' HC Era: The decision to not use THT's demo as the released version. The demo was loud, ambitious, different, and infectious whereas the album version was safe, generic, and bland. Oh, and the idiotic idea to have us wait 30 minutes to listen to further shit with The Cage only compounded our miseries, too. What the fuck? All that bravado Noel had between 1994 and 1998 was seemingly lost between 1999 and 2005. It's like when Dr. Evil stole Austin Powers mojo. Noel's mojo stealing Dr Evil-
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