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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 31, 2015 15:04:42 GMT -5
Coldplay were a very good band, but I wouldn't throw the term "genius" at them. None of their members are of that caliber, and frankly none of their songs have ever made me exclaim "that's genius!". They have plenty of "wow" moments (Politik), but Martin isn't a Lennon, Reed, Gaye, or Marley or even a Damon or Noel. Martin has a gifted ear for melody, but even then I wouldn't say he is on the level of a Noel or Taylor Swift. Viva La Vida is a nice album, hell its a very good one, a great rebound after the relatively shallow and empty X&Y, but I'm hesitant to call it a great one. Sorry cast, I just can't agree with the bit about Taylor Swift. She's talented enough, but let's remember her albums of late have been produced by 15 million people with songwriting credits given to the usual suspects of today's pop chart fodder. But in no way is she as melodically talented as Martin at his peak - songs like Shake It Off or We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together sound like children's TV themes from CBeebies. Until she can write a song up to the standard of The Scientist and her songs start getting covered by Willie Nelson and Frank Ocean, she won't be anywhere near Martin's peak. You guys are revving me up!
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Post by batfink30 on Dec 31, 2015 15:06:34 GMT -5
Sorry cast, I just can't agree with the bit about Taylor Swift. She's talented enough, but let's remember her albums of late have been produced by 15 million people with songwriting credits given to the usual suspects of today's pop chart fodder. But in no way is she as melodically talented as Martin at his peak - songs like Shake It Off or We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together sound like children's TV themes from CBeebies. Until she can write a song up to the standard of The Scientist and her songs start getting covered by Willie Nelson and Frank Ocean, she won't be anywhere near Martin's peak. You guys are revving me up! Vrooooom vroooooom!
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Post by The Escapist on Dec 31, 2015 15:23:07 GMT -5
AND, she's not even that attractive. That's right, I said it.
Seriously though, top form Chris Martin really is a stunning melodist. There's about five tunes in Strawberry Swing alone that can loop in your head for days.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 31, 2015 15:38:47 GMT -5
AND, she's not even that attractive. That's right, I said it. Seriously though, top form Chris Martin really is a stunning melodist. There's about five tunes in Strawberry Swing alone that can loop in your head for days. Are you kidding me man?!?!?!?!?!
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 31, 2015 15:39:54 GMT -5
On a side note, has Chris Martin ever been pictured in regular blue jeans? He's either in track pants, parachute pants or a silly costume.
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Post by The Escapist on Dec 31, 2015 15:42:20 GMT -5
AND, she's not even that attractive. That's right, I said it. Seriously though, top form Chris Martin really is a stunning melodist. There's about five tunes in Strawberry Swing alone that can loop in your head for days. Are you kidding me man?!?!?!?!?! She's a babe? She's a boy until you get to her face.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Dec 31, 2015 15:45:27 GMT -5
Are you kidding me man?!?!?!?!?! She's a babe? She's a boy until you get to her face. Don't be a pig. Big boobs or a big ass don't mean someone is beautiful or attractive or vice versa.
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Post by batfink30 on Dec 31, 2015 15:54:14 GMT -5
Don't be a pig. Big boobs or a big ass don't mean someone is beautiful or attractive or vice versa. True, but I honestly don't think she's that beautiful. Not beautiful enough to deserve a consistently updated thread anyway. Anyway, this thread is for depressed Coldplay fans to attack their output over the last 7 years, so let's not get off topic Fun is possibly the least fun I've had listening to a song this year... The dual vox on Fun make me squirm. Like listening to fingernails running down a chalkboard.
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Post by World71R on Dec 31, 2015 16:21:26 GMT -5
Don't be a pig. Big boobs or a big ass don't mean someone is beautiful or attractive or vice versa. True, but I honestly don't think she's that beautiful. Not beautiful enough to deserve a consistently updated thread anyway. Anyway, this thread is for depressed Coldplay fans to attack their output over the last 7 years, so let's not get off topic Fun is possibly the least fun I've had listening to a song this year... Fun is extremely bland. The only redeeming factor in it is Jonny's guitar riff, and even that gets swallowed by all of the unnecessary sounds that try to make the song more "modern" and "top 40 hit material", but yet, it sounds like something a Duran Duran-influenced 80s tribute band would do if they were awarded studio time for winning a Battle of the Bands competition. It just doesn't sound right for Coldplay at all.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 1, 2016 12:18:12 GMT -5
True, but I honestly don't think she's that beautiful. Not beautiful enough to deserve a consistently updated thread anyway. Anyway, this thread is for depressed Coldplay fans to attack their output over the last 7 years, so let's not get off topic Fun is possibly the least fun I've had listening to a song this year... Fun is extremely bland. The only redeeming factor in it is Jonny's guitar riff, and even that gets swallowed by all of the unnecessary sounds that try to make the song more "modern" and "top 40 hit material", but yet, it sounds like something a Duran Duran-influenced 80s tribute band would do if they were awarded studio time for winning a Battle of the Bands competition. It just doesn't sound right for Coldplay at all. Fun isn't very fun at all.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 1, 2016 12:23:29 GMT -5
Coldplay were a very good band, but I wouldn't throw the term "genius" at them. None of their members are of that caliber, and frankly none of their songs have ever made me exclaim "that's genius!". They have plenty of "wow" moments (Politik), but Martin isn't a Lennon, Reed, Gaye, or Marley or even a Damon or Noel. Martin has a gifted ear for melody, but even then I wouldn't say he is on the level of a Noel or Taylor Swift. Viva La Vida is a nice album, hell its a very good one, a great rebound after the relatively shallow and empty X&Y, but I'm hesitant to call it a great one. Sorry cast, I just can't agree with the bit about Taylor Swift. She's talented enough, but let's remember her albums of late have been produced by 15 million people with songwriting credits given to the usual suspects of today's pop chart fodder. But in no way is she as melodically talented as Martin at his peak - songs like Shake It Off or We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together sound like children's TV themes from CBeebies. Until she can write a song up to the standard of The Scientist and her songs start getting covered by Willie Nelson and Frank Ocean, she won't be anywhere near Martin's peak. Taylor's got song writing chomps. Take Ryan Adam's cover album of 1989. He made it sound like a sad lonely indie acoustic album. On her 1989 album she wrote almost all the lyrics with the music sometimes credited to the producer of the track.
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Post by Cast on Jan 1, 2016 14:45:25 GMT -5
Coldplay were a very good band, but I wouldn't throw the term "genius" at them. None of their members are of that caliber, and frankly none of their songs have ever made me exclaim "that's genius!". They have plenty of "wow" moments (Politik), but Martin isn't a Lennon, Reed, Gaye, or Marley or even a Damon or Noel. Martin has a gifted ear for melody, but even then I wouldn't say he is on the level of a Noel or Taylor Swift. Viva La Vida is a nice album, hell its a very good one, a great rebound after the relatively shallow and empty X&Y, but I'm hesitant to call it a great one. Sorry cast, I just can't agree with the bit about Taylor Swift. She's talented enough, but let's remember her albums of late have been produced by 15 million people with songwriting credits given to the usual suspects of today's pop chart fodder. But in no way is she as melodically talented as Martin at his peak - songs like Shake It Off or We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together sound like children's TV themes from CBeebies. Until she can write a song up to the standard of The Scientist and her songs start getting covered by Willie Nelson and Frank Ocean, she won't be anywhere near Martin's peak. Red and 1989 sure, but Speak Now and Fearless are mostly her. Hell those two are probably my favorites for whatever that's worth. Eh, Ryan Adams covered her shit and respects her as writer, that's pretty much all I need to know cause honestly I respect his songwriting craftsmanship way more than Martin's, even though Martin may have a couple tunes that shine brighter than any of Ryan's. I listen to Coldplay a hell of a lot more than Taylor Swift, but a lot of people can't get past the all the BS that surrounds our pop stars and if you do you there's good songs underneath the sleek shine. Also not that it matters in any sort, because a multitude of circumstance, but as far as transitioning to colorful mass pop star the score is Tay - 1 Coldplay - 0 And yes the newest taylor swift albums have been better than the past two coldplay records (IMO)
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Post by matt on Jan 1, 2016 15:33:39 GMT -5
Sorry cast, I just can't agree with the bit about Taylor Swift. She's talented enough, but let's remember her albums of late have been produced by 15 million people with songwriting credits given to the usual suspects of today's pop chart fodder. But in no way is she as melodically talented as Martin at his peak - songs like Shake It Off or We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together sound like children's TV themes from CBeebies. Until she can write a song up to the standard of The Scientist and her songs start getting covered by Willie Nelson and Frank Ocean, she won't be anywhere near Martin's peak. Red and 1989 sure, but Speak Now and Fearless are mostly her. Hell those two are probably my favorites for whatever that's worth. Eh, Ryan Adams covered her shit and respects her as writer, that's pretty much all I need to know cause honestly I respect his songwriting craftsmanship way more than Martin's, even though Martin may have a couple tunes that shine brighter than any of Ryan's. I listen to Coldplay a hell of a lot more than Taylor Swift, but a lot of people can't get past the all the BS that surrounds our pop stars and if you do you there's good songs underneath the sleek shine. Also not that it matters in any sort, because a multitude of circumstance, but as far as transitioning to colorful mass pop star the score is Tay - 1 Coldplay - 0 And yes the newest taylor swift albums have been better than the past two coldplay records (IMO) I'm not saying she's shite, but she's just another 'phenomenon' which, at the end of the day, isn't much different from all the other new fads that have come and gone in the last few years. Like Adele, 1989 may be a mass selling hit with admittedly many redeeming features (and yes, more so than Coldplay's recent output) but it is sad if that is what we call cultural heavyweights in today's music. And look at all the writing credits on these kinds of albums - Paul Epworth for Adele, Max Martin and Ryan Tedder for Swift - the go to men for a chart melody. This is mass produced music of little substance, but the really sad thing is that the likes of Adele or Taylor Swift are able to dominate the airwaves, magazines and TV shows simply because of money. The best money will hire the biggest pop producer and the biggest pop songwriter and the biggest marketing campaign ever. These companies know they've got a product here that will sell, sell, sell and one that can be moulded into the most profitable dream ever. This is the big problem. When you start reducing music to material means, then it demeans the whole point of it all. Who Taylor Swift and Adele really are, well we don't know. They are reflective of someone else's dream (i.e. record company), and not reflective of the singer's own reality. And what you inevitably end up with - because there has been such a large personnel involved in the making and marketing of the record - is music and an image that is in no way whatsoever reflective of the actual 'artist'. And ideally, cultural phenomenon's should be so because they are genuinely unique and special people. It's not the case here. At best, they merely produce fine ear candy that is pleasant to listen to. But the entire furore surrounding these singers and their songs is completely overhyped.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 1, 2016 15:58:01 GMT -5
Talking about Taylor Swift vs Coldplay... surely a Martin-off would be a more interesting debate? i.e. Chris Vs. Max ...though that would of course mean talking about more vanilla pop rubbish than my poor brain could ever handle. ...and that's just Chris.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 1, 2016 16:09:37 GMT -5
Red and 1989 sure, but Speak Now and Fearless are mostly her. Hell those two are probably my favorites for whatever that's worth. Eh, Ryan Adams covered her shit and respects her as writer, that's pretty much all I need to know cause honestly I respect his songwriting craftsmanship way more than Martin's, even though Martin may have a couple tunes that shine brighter than any of Ryan's. I listen to Coldplay a hell of a lot more than Taylor Swift, but a lot of people can't get past the all the BS that surrounds our pop stars and if you do you there's good songs underneath the sleek shine. Also not that it matters in any sort, because a multitude of circumstance, but as far as transitioning to colorful mass pop star the score is Tay - 1 Coldplay - 0 And yes the newest taylor swift albums have been better than the past two coldplay records (IMO) I'm not saying she's shite, but she's just another 'phenomenon' which, at the end of the day, isn't much different from all the other new fads that have come and gone in the last few years. Like Adele, 1989 may be a mass selling hit with admittedly many redeeming features (and yes, more so than Coldplay's recent output) but it is sad if that is what we call cultural heavyweights in today's music. And look at all the writing credits on these kinds of albums - Paul Epworth for Adele, Max Martin and Ryan Tedder for Swift - the go to men for a chart melody. This is mass produced music of little substance, but the really sad thing is that the likes of Adele or Taylor Swift are able to dominate the airwaves, magazines and TV shows simply because of money. The best money will hire the biggest pop producer and the biggest pop songwriter and the biggest marketing campaign ever. These companies know they've got a product here that will sell, sell, sell and one that can be moulded into the most profitable dream ever. This is the big problem. When you start reducing music to material means, then it demeans the whole point of it all. Who Taylor Swift and Adele really are, well we don't know. They are reflective of someone else's dream (i.e. record company), and not reflective of the singer's own reality. And what you inevitably end up with - because there has been such a large personnel involved in the making and marketing of the record - is music and an image that is in no way whatsoever reflective of the actual 'artist'. And ideally, cultural phenomenon's should be so because they are genuinely unique and special people. It's not the case here. At best, they merely produce fine ear candy that is pleasant to listen to. But the entire furore surrounding these singers and their songs is completely overhyped. I wouldn't call Taylor Swify a "fad". She's won a Album of The Year at the Grammys and Song of The Year. She's consistently sold millions of albums per release going on a decade plus. She's been the biggest selling artist over the last 5 years globally. She's going to be around for a long long time. Embrace the Tay Tay.
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Post by World71R on Jan 1, 2016 16:42:03 GMT -5
I'm not saying she's shite, but she's just another 'phenomenon' which, at the end of the day, isn't much different from all the other new fads that have come and gone in the last few years. Like Adele, 1989 may be a mass selling hit with admittedly many redeeming features (and yes, more so than Coldplay's recent output) but it is sad if that is what we call cultural heavyweights in today's music. And look at all the writing credits on these kinds of albums - Paul Epworth for Adele, Max Martin and Ryan Tedder for Swift - the go to men for a chart melody. This is mass produced music of little substance, but the really sad thing is that the likes of Adele or Taylor Swift are able to dominate the airwaves, magazines and TV shows simply because of money. The best money will hire the biggest pop producer and the biggest pop songwriter and the biggest marketing campaign ever. These companies know they've got a product here that will sell, sell, sell and one that can be moulded into the most profitable dream ever. This is the big problem. When you start reducing music to material means, then it demeans the whole point of it all. Who Taylor Swift and Adele really are, well we don't know. They are reflective of someone else's dream (i.e. record company), and not reflective of the singer's own reality. And what you inevitably end up with - because there has been such a large personnel involved in the making and marketing of the record - is music and an image that is in no way whatsoever reflective of the actual 'artist'. And ideally, cultural phenomenon's should be so because they are genuinely unique and special people. It's not the case here. At best, they merely produce fine ear candy that is pleasant to listen to. But the entire furore surrounding these singers and their songs is completely overhyped. I wouldn't call Taylor Swify a "fad". She's won a Album of The Year at the Grammys and Song of The Year. She's consistently sold millions of albums per release going on a decade plus. She's been the biggest selling artist over the last 5 years globally. She's going to be around for a long long time. Embrace the Tay Tay. I can respect that, but it'd be nice to have her, or Adele, in a studio where they're writing their own music and lyrics, not just lyrics and some of the music. It's nice that they write songs with meanings that hit hard, but it'd be even better if they had their personal touch on the composition and arrangement of the music. Like Shake it Off and Hello, they could've both used that. SIO sounds like a patchwork of sounds that were popular when the song was penned & released. The drums are almost the same as the ones on Pharrell's Happy, and the horns could've come from one of those soul revival songs that Meghan Trainor has put out (those completely suck, however). It's a light pop song, but the backing track feels generic, and the same can be said for Hello, but I think that it works better for that song. The minimalist approach to the backing track lets Adele's voice shine. However, I am disappointed there wasn't something just as powerful & personal supporting her voice instead. I think that would've made for something new & less generic from Adele. EDIT: Interesting fact: Rosie Danvers (The Wired Strings), who did the string arrangements for Everybody's on the Run, Record Machine, and Ballad of the Mighty I, also did the string arrangements for the songs on Adele's 21.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 1, 2016 16:44:55 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Taylor Swify a "fad". She's won a Album of The Year at the Grammys and Song of The Year. She's consistently sold millions of albums per release going on a decade plus. She's been the biggest selling artist over the last 5 years globally. She's going to be around for a long long time. Embrace the Tay Tay. I can respect that, but it'd be nice to have her, or Adele, in a studio where they're writing their own music and lyrics, not just lyrics and some of the music. It's nice that they write songs with meanings that hit hard, but it'd be even better if they had their personal touch on the composition and arrangement of the music. Like Shake it Off and Hello, they could've both used that. SIO sounds like a patchwork of sounds that were popular when the song was penned & released. The drums are almost the same as the ones on Pharrell's Happy, and the horns could've come from one of those soul revival songs that Meghan Trainor has put out (those completely suck, however). It's a light pop song, but the backing track feels generic, and the same can be said for Hello, but I think that it works better for that song. The minimalist approach to the backing track lets Adele's voice shine. However, I am disappointed there wasn't something just as powerful & personal supporting her voice instead. I think that would've made for something new & less generic from Adele. I'm not sure the breakdown on how much writing the producers did for her? Is it all the music or just some? A couple of lyrics here and there? Not sure. She use to write it all. And sold million doing it. I'm not really bothered either way. Shit, I wish Liam had people helping him write lyrics/music so we can get a KICK ASS solo album.
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Post by batfink30 on Jan 1, 2016 16:46:41 GMT -5
Goodbye A Head full Of Dreams RIP, now overtaken by Little Mix.
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Post by batfink30 on Jan 1, 2016 16:56:54 GMT -5
There was once a time when a Coldplay thread would have discussions of Radiohead and Jeff Buckley, instead of Adele and Taylor Swift. Just a sign of
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Post by World71R on Jan 1, 2016 17:26:42 GMT -5
I can respect that, but it'd be nice to have her, or Adele, in a studio where they're writing their own music and lyrics, not just lyrics and some of the music. It's nice that they write songs with meanings that hit hard, but it'd be even better if they had their personal touch on the composition and arrangement of the music. Like Shake it Off and Hello, they could've both used that. SIO sounds like a patchwork of sounds that were popular when the song was penned & released. The drums are almost the same as the ones on Pharrell's Happy, and the horns could've come from one of those soul revival songs that Meghan Trainor has put out (those completely suck, however). It's a light pop song, but the backing track feels generic, and the same can be said for Hello, but I think that it works better for that song. The minimalist approach to the backing track lets Adele's voice shine. However, I am disappointed there wasn't something just as powerful & personal supporting her voice instead. I think that would've made for something new & less generic from Adele. I'm not sure the breakdown on how much writing the producers did for her? Is it all the music or just some? A couple of lyrics here and there? Not sure. She use to write it all. And sold million doing it. I'm not really bothered either way. Shit, I wish Liam had people helping him write lyrics/music so we can get a KICK ASS solo album. Very true. I think it's a different case with Liam since we know the band dynamic of Oasis, as opposed to Taylor's dynamic. Most of what we know about Taylor is that she wrote the stuff on her first couple albums and sold millions before enlisting some of the top songwriters and producers for her more recent albums, but with Liam, we've heard about how Noel had the band's producer work with him on his writing as he contributed more. Plus, we also know that Liam was never a leading songwriter, like Taylor was, and even so, he never really wrote a big song or sold millions like she did, which is why I think Liam having a co-writer would go over better than Taylor having a co-writer, since he doesn't have the merits or strong songwriting ability that she does. That's not to say he can't write a good song, though, and that's why I completely agree that a Liam solo album. With a co-writer, I think he'd have some good and properly structured songs with strong melodies & lyrics.
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Post by matt on Jan 1, 2016 18:06:57 GMT -5
Goodbye A Head full Of Dreams RIP, now overtaken by Little Mix. Hope it continues to drop like a stone. Like I said, this is the first album of theirs I don't hear a hit single (even if they try desperately with a Beyonce collab). I've listened to their other ones and there's been at least one tune you're sure will be on the airwaves for a good while (even if you don't particularly like the song) but with this one? Not a sausage.
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Post by Jack on Jan 1, 2016 18:41:24 GMT -5
Surely they cant keep up making all this Cbeebie, technicolor mainstream style music forever? I mean, if the band stay together until they're into their mid 40's, early 50's, they're sound has to mature and get better at some point? I think they still have 'it', but are blinded by their ego and ability to make anything to shift records. And by 'they', I mean Chris Martin.
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Post by Cast on Jan 1, 2016 18:52:58 GMT -5
matt, I pretty much agree with everything your saying. Especially the hired hands and label stuff, I mean i don't think anyone is claiming that Adele or Swift are legit game changing artists. Taylor in particular seems to be a marketing genius, where as the people around Adele (Record companies) seem to market her well. Thing I like about Taylor, more so than with Adele, is that she's willingly to take risks. Adele is blessed with an outstanding voice but she makes dull music watered down soul/r&b music. Taylor can't sing nearly as well but I respect the fact she tries new things with her music. That said i don't think its fair to call Taylor a "fad". She's been an A-list popstar for at least 5-6 years now, I'd say Britpop (aka Oasis) was more of a cultural fad than Taylor is. That doesn't mean i think her music will last longer, but she is relevant culturally and musically right now and has been for a while. I think she's written a couple legit tunes that will stand the test of time, but who knows. Think the other thing that bums me out about coldplay and The Escapist kinda brought it up, is that its funny in and of itself that we are even comparing these three artists. Just goes to show how insanely far Coldplay have slipped. Its not a reach to discuss these three anymore because they all operate in the mainstream, and have huge $$$ behind them. I only hear that Coldplay song on ESPN of all places, and its funny that their just as corporate and empty as some of the popstars people hate on. People who are holding out on them to make something artful musically (and I'm one of them) are kinda delusional. Its like Dad-pop.
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Post by matt on Jan 1, 2016 18:58:18 GMT -5
matt, I pretty much agree with everything your saying. Especially the hired hands and label stuff, I mean i don't think anyone is claiming that Adele or Swift are legit game changing artists. Taylor in particular seems to be a marketing genius, where as the people around Adele (Record companies) seem to market her well. Thing I like about Taylor, more so than with Adele, is that she's willingly to take risks. Adele is blessed with an outstanding voice but she makes dull music watered down soul/r&b music. Taylor can't sing nearly as well but I respect the fact she tries new things with her music. That said i don't think its fair to call Taylor a "fad". She's been an A-list popstar for at least 5-6 years now, I'd say Britpop (aka Oasis) was more of a cultural fad than Taylor is. That doesn't mean i think her music will last longer, but she is relevant culturally and musically right now and has been for a while. I think she's written a couple legit tunes that will stand the test of time, but who knows. Think the other thing that bums me out about coldplay and The Escapist kinda brought it up, is that its funny in and of itself that we are even comparing these three artists. Just goes to show how insanely far Coldplay have slipped. Its not a reach to discuss these three anymore because they all operate in the mainstream, and have huge $$$ behind them. I only hear that Coldplay song on ESPN of all places, and its funny that their just as corporate and empty as some of the popstars people hate on. People who are holding out on them to make something artful musically (and I'm one of them) are kinda delusional. Its like Dad-pop. A fad is overstating it, and she will continue to succeed for years to come, but at the moment you can't even open a broadsheet newspaper without seeing her and the hype is relentless. Once she becomes just another mainstream pop star with all the rest, then I might not be so irritated!
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Post by matt on Jan 1, 2016 18:59:09 GMT -5
Surely they cant keep up making all this Cbeebie, technicolor mainstream style music forever? I mean, if the band stay together until they're into their mid 40's, early 50's, they're sound has to mature and get better at some point? I think they still have 'it', but are blinded by their ego and ability to make anything to shift records. And by 'they', I mean Chris Martin. If any of the other members had any self-respect, they would have put their foot down.
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