|
Post by matt on Feb 19, 2015 20:09:31 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be raving about Noel's production efforts here and how he has given a modern shine to the sound, which has added much needed vigour to his songs.
So the question for those who have listened and who have praised - where does Noel take it from here? Surely he CAN'T regress and go back to Sardy? It would seem unfathomable and a suicidal move for Noel.
Quite simply, because Sardy is the worst producer I have ever come across. I find myself cringing at the murky, plodding and old fashioned sound. He's very basic, but he can't even do the basics right. Owen Morris was a basic producer, but his sound was massive and reverb oriented and you could feel the energy seeping from the sound system, it was raw and passionate and great - they might as well have hired him to produce the records after Heathen Chemistry.
Noel and Oasis were at their best when they acknowledged the 1960s rather than be obsessed by it, and Owen Morris helped that feel. Oasis sounded like a band of the times, feeling modern but respecting the past. Sardy missed the point with Oasis, and rather than respectfully acknowledge the 1960s, he decided to let Oasis become consumed by everything about the 1960s. Of course the band members are at fault too for hiring, but even if progressive thinkers like Radiohead or Arcade Fire or U2 hired Sardy, they would sound incredibly derivative.
So if Noel has blossomed and modernised his sound, where does he take it from here, and what would be the logical step in the production seat, or ideally, where would you like him to take his sound and who would produce?
Because, as Noel himself acknowledges on the record, you know we can't go back (cue the groans at the pun).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 20:16:26 GMT -5
If Noel does go back to Sardy then it'll be a disaster. There was a bit of apprehension when Noel said he'd produced this himself because we had flashbax (1-1 in pun wars) of Heathen Chemistry, but it turns out it's worked tremendously well.
In the future I'd be perfectly happy for him produce his own albums again. I'd maybe like to see him work with Brian Eno even though it's become a bit of a cliché. Or get George Martin out of retirement.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Feb 19, 2015 20:52:52 GMT -5
If Noel does go back to Sardy then it'll be a disaster. There was a bit of apprehension when Noel said he'd produced this himself because we had flashbax (1-1 in pun wars) of Heathen Chemistry, but it turns out it's worked tremendously well. In the future I'd be perfectly happy for him produce his own albums again. I'd maybe like to see him work with Brian Eno even though it's become a bit of a cliché. Or get George Martin out of retirement. Would love Brian Eno. U2 were a fairly meat and potatoes rock band before he produced their albums, like Oasis. It was all punk like with U2 and they openly admit they weren't great musicians. Eno - along with the vision of The Edge and Bono - added texture to their sound. That's all it takes - vision. And you don't need to be a great musician to be a great experimenter. If you are a great songwriter and can write a great melody, you have all the leeway and flexibility to do things interesting with that melody. Noel can do that easily.
|
|
|
Post by AKA... Frozen Eggroll on Feb 19, 2015 20:54:18 GMT -5
I don't think Sardy is all that bad actually. Yeah, he screwed up If I Had A Gun... but I loved how the ancient Stop the Clocks turned out, and I appreciate what eventually came of Record Machine, for the most part at least. I do agree though that Noel should produce his future albums. I mean if he's capable of doing so then the extra time in the studio is well worth it, as we can tell with Chasing Yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by World71R on Feb 19, 2015 20:59:03 GMT -5
If I had to take a guess, as to what Noel will do for the future, I think he'll self-produce his albums with Strangeboy working with him as engineer & in-studio musician, since those two are such great friends. I'm gonna predict that Weller makes an appearance somewhere along the way, Johnny Marr might appear again, and this would be a bit of a dream/stretch, but Damon Albarn performing on a track would be really cool to see happen. Those two have talked about the possibility of collaborating some time, so it's quite possible.
Basically speaking, the future's wide open for Noel, but I think Noel's going to be doing a lot more producer work for his own work, and quite possibly for others, especially with how he has guys like Bono commending him for it.
|
|
|
Post by Beady’s Here Now on Feb 19, 2015 21:02:58 GMT -5
If Record Machine had the same production and energy as Lock All the Doors? WOW. If If I Had A Gun had the same production and feeling as The Dying of the Light? WOW.
|
|
|
Post by World71R on Feb 19, 2015 21:05:08 GMT -5
I don't think Sardy is all that bad actually. Yeah, he screwed up If I Had A Gun... but I loved how the ancient Stop the Clocks turned out, and I appreciate what eventually came of Record Machine, for the most part at least. I do agree though that Noel should produce his future albums. I mean if he's capable of doing so then the extra time in the studio is well worth it, as we can tell with Chasing Yesterday. Sardy did well with producing the strings, and did give a cool "baroque" feel to the Oasis/NG sound (TUTS, most of NGHFB, for example), but you could definitely hear him at work with how muddy a lot of the tracks sound. If I Had a Gun, as much as I love that song, is the best example of that happening, like you were talking about. However, with Stop the Clocks, I like the outro & the backing track, but Noel's vocals were very poorly produced. It sounds very artificial, and the repeating of the "sound" part is rather annoying. Record Machine came out pretty cool, though. The bridge part where the choir, strings, and guitar decrescendo, and then crescendo to a Wall of Sound, and Noel's brilliant "You can't give me no reason..." is the best part imo.
|
|
|
Post by Manualex on Feb 19, 2015 21:05:42 GMT -5
Sardy. Dave Sardy would be another person who's a hero. The music he's produced over the years, I don't really listen to it, but the fact that he's making it, I respect that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 21:18:47 GMT -5
"Hmm. What if I actually tried a bit of experimentation for this record...?" "I don't think so!"
|
|
|
Post by Manualex on Feb 19, 2015 21:21:37 GMT -5
Now does dave Sardy brainwashed Noel into killing the prime minister of malasia? I dont think so. Checkmate haters.
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 19, 2015 21:46:27 GMT -5
I don't think Sardy is all that bad actually. Yeah, he screwed up If I Had A Gun... but I loved how the ancient Stop the Clocks turned out, and I appreciate what eventually came of Record Machine, for the most part at least. I do agree though that Noel should produce his future albums. I mean if he's capable of doing so then the extra time in the studio is well worth it, as we can tell with Chasing Yesterday. Dave Sardy makes me want to puke.
|
|
|
Post by batfink30 on Feb 19, 2015 22:02:25 GMT -5
I woke up stinking on a train that was bound for Sardy.
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 19, 2015 22:22:00 GMT -5
I don't think Sardy is all that bad actually. Yeah, he screwed up If I Had A Gun... but I loved how the ancient Stop the Clocks turned out, and I appreciate what eventually came of Record Machine, for the most part at least. I do agree though that Noel should produce his future albums. I mean if he's capable of doing so then the extra time in the studio is well worth it, as we can tell with Chasing Yesterday. I personally feel that the HFB's version of "Stop The Clocks" was a complete disaster. The intro mellotron sounds so fake and tinny. It sounds like a cheap keyboard that is using the "mellotron" setting. The best part is the guitar solo that Noel doesn't even play. Geez............. I prefer the demo but even that isn't earth shattering. Sadly the hype between 2002 and 2008 killed this song and it was never going to take off like we all imagined it would. I would love to hear the various versions recorded over the years. Especially with Liam on vocals. I remember Noel saying in 2006 they could release an EP of all the different attempts at this tune. Maybe it'll appear on a future Oasis anthology record. Sorta like Strawberry Fields Forever was on the Beatles anthology. Shows three different versions and the progressions made.
|
|
|
Post by Manualex on Feb 19, 2015 22:28:29 GMT -5
If Noel does go back to Sardy then it'll be a disaster. There was a bit of apprehension when Noel said he'd produced this himself because we had flashbax (1-1 in pun wars) of Heathen Chemistry, but it turns out it's worked tremendously well. In the future I'd be perfectly happy for him produce his own albums again. I'd maybe like to see him work with Brian Eno even though it's become a bit of a cliché. Or get George Martin out of retirement. Would love Brian Eno. U2 were a fairly meat and potatoes rock band before he produced their albums, like Oasis. It was all punk like with U2 and they openly admit they weren't great musicians. Eno - along with the vision of The Edge and Bono - added texture to their sound. That's all it takes - vision. And you don't need to be a great musician to be a great experimenter. If you are a great songwriter and can write a great melody, you have all the leeway and flexibility to do things interesting with that melody. Noel can do that easily. Thom Yorke and the rest of radiohead with the help of Nigel Godrich went from a post grunge band to something quite interesting, and then something I really dont like(The King Of Limbs/Attoms for peace/AMOK), but that shows that they are willing to experiment and not just record the same record every time.
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 19, 2015 22:41:16 GMT -5
Would love Brian Eno. U2 were a fairly meat and potatoes rock band before he produced their albums, like Oasis. It was all punk like with U2 and they openly admit they weren't great musicians. Eno - along with the vision of The Edge and Bono - added texture to their sound. That's all it takes - vision. And you don't need to be a great musician to be a great experimenter. If you are a great songwriter and can write a great melody, you have all the leeway and flexibility to do things interesting with that melody. Noel can do that easily. Thom Yorke and the rest of radiohead with the help of Nigel Godrich went from a post grunge band to something quite interesting, and then something I really dont like(The King Of Limbs/Attoms for peace/AMOK), but that shows that they are willing to experiment and not just record the same record every time. Radiohead.........now those guys are proper artists. I personally feel they've made 4 masterpieces (The Bends, Ok Computer, Kid A, In Rainbows). Oasis only had two (Definitely Maybe, Morning Glory) and none since 1995. Oasis' lineup changed many times. Radiohead.............never. I loved when Radiohead went down the rabbits hole. They pushed themselves, their fans and came out even better on the other side. I am very much looking forward to their new album this year.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Feb 19, 2015 23:12:29 GMT -5
Thom Yorke and the rest of radiohead with the help of Nigel Godrich went from a post grunge band to something quite interesting, and then something I really dont like(The King Of Limbs/Attoms for peace/AMOK), but that shows that they are willing to experiment and not just record the same record every time. Radiohead.........now those guys are proper artists. I personally feel they've made 4 masterpieces (The Bends, Ok Computer, Kid A, In Rainbows). Oasis only had two (Definitely Maybe, Morning Glory) and none since 1995. Oasis' lineup changed many times. Radiohead.............never. I loved when Radiohead went down the rabbits hole. They pushed themselves, their fans and came out even better on the other side. I am very much looking forward to their new album this year. The problem is Noel uses the 'I'm not an artist' excuse far too many times. I'm not asking him to be David Bowie or Kate Bush. We're not asking him to be an artist, we're asking him to change the sound from a stodgy spoof 1960s band to one that sounds modern and new. He's got more than enough songwriting talent to let these songs blossom in the studio. So I reiterate, we are not asking him to restructure his songwriting, but change the sound. For example - can Noel write a moody song? Yes, so why not bring in Brian Eno to add some mysterious ambiance to the song rather than letting Dave Sardy shart all over it with a plodding mess with the same old boring guitars. And the songs I've heard lately, and in addition to collaborations over the years, shows he can easily brighten up and make his songs bloom by adding something new to the sound.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 20, 2015 1:18:30 GMT -5
Given how much of a control freak Noel is, and the fact that people are praising CY's production, I guess Noel will continue to produce his records himself with Paul Stacey's help as stated above. Surely he's not going to come back to Sardy, it will be either himself or some more 'experimental' producer if he finally decides to take the risk.
As for Sardy, I think he did quite a decent (good, even) job in most of the tracks of the previous album. Record Machine and Stop The Clocks were both improved from the demos in my opinion. What a Life and TDOYAM turned out particularly well. The only track he really messed up was IIHAG.
|
|
Banksy
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 359
|
Post by Banksy on Feb 20, 2015 3:07:57 GMT -5
If I had to take a guess, as to what Noel will do for the future, I think he'll self-produce his albums with Strangeboy working with him as engineer & in-studio musician, since those two are such great friends. I'm gonna predict that Weller makes an appearance somewhere along the way, Johnny Marr might appear again, and this would be a bit of a dream/stretch, but Damon Albarn performing on a track would be really cool to see happen. Those two have talked about the possibility of collaborating some time, so it's quite possible. Basically speaking, the future's wide open for Noel, but I think Noel's going to be doing a lot more producer work for his own work, and quite possibly for others, especially with how he has guys like Bono commending him for it. I would also like to see me old mukka Ian Brown show up again. So much Noel could do. Maybe even some German Rap?
|
|
|
Post by mystoryisgory on Feb 20, 2015 3:11:42 GMT -5
Sardy isn't that bad of a producer, he got DBTT right, and nailed DOYS! I've always liked DOYS's production because it had the attack characteristic of Oasis, yet there was quite a lot of detail to the songs. However, his work on HFB was a disaster. The drums overtook and obscured the guitars (which are the best thing about Oasis!!!). People often cited IIHAG as his worst fuck-up but I'd have to say that he screwed up SOTWB and ASGOG the worst. Both of those songs are supposed to be guitar led, yet the guitars are impossible to hear behind the drums!!!! However, I'll give him credit where he deserves it. He did a great job with WAL and made it massive, and made STC one of the best album closers ever. As far as I'm concerned, however, Noel should never go within 10 miles of Sardy ever again.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 20, 2015 3:45:14 GMT -5
People often cited IIHAG as his worst fuck-up but I'd have to say that he screwed up SOTWB and ASGOG the worst. Both of those songs are supposed to be guitar led, yet the guitars are impossible to hear behind the drums!!!! I like the sleazy sound of SOTWB. It reminds me of Tom Waits for some reason. The only sound that is too obscured in the mix is the bells.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 4:22:37 GMT -5
I've said it before, I'll say it again...Eno/Gallagher 2018 Apart from him I'd like to see Noel work with.... Nigel Godrich (could add a more detailed, layered quality to Noel's music, even more so than CY) Danger Mouse (coulld make Noel sound more modern than ever, and bring him back to popular relevancy) Aphex Twin (God knows what this would sound like, but I want to hear it.) Noel Gallagher (He seems pretty good at this production lark)
|
|
|
Post by MacaRonic on Feb 20, 2015 4:46:17 GMT -5
The best sounding song on the first album was "The Death of You and Me", even if you don't particularly like the song you can't deny that it sounds crisp and fresh and every instrument is audible and it's the only song on the album that Sardy didn't touch. Noel produced it himself, speaks volumes, Sardy ruined the first album. Buried everything in bass, the drums are way too loud, everything is so basic, so unimaginative, the cd sounds like a 128kbp mp3 rip. Noel will never work with this man again, thank fuck he's gone.
|
|
|
Post by mossy on Feb 20, 2015 4:54:07 GMT -5
I'd love to hear the HFB album Noel took to Sardy thinking it was finished.
We blame Sardy a lot for HFB production problems but Noel was ready to release it before Sardy touched it and he supposedly mainly reworked the drums, so the truth is Noelly Poly himself could well be to blame for the elements we hate.
We'll never know until we here the pre-Sardy version.
Either way, CY sounds bloody great in comparison :-)
|
|
|
Post by carlober on Feb 20, 2015 4:57:19 GMT -5
[...] the cd sounds like a 128kbp mp3 rip. [...] This Nearly every song on the album sounds muffled, flat. They have no depth, you can't hear any instrument properly because they're buried somewhere in the mix: the bass and those plodding drums are so blended together that sometimes you can't even tell which is which. The songs are great but the mix and the production are piss poor...
|
|
|
Post by theyknowwhatimean on Feb 20, 2015 6:08:38 GMT -5
"Hmm. What if I actually tried a bit of experimentation for this record...?" "I don't think so!" Best post I've seen in a while.
|
|