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Post by gdforever on Sept 10, 2012 12:23:18 GMT -5
How so? I don't see how thats so obviously true as you suggest. they said in many interviews they wanted to be the biggest band in the world. to me that translates to money and fame. yes, you need many fans to achieve that, but it doesn't feel like they cared much, or else they wouldn't leave the band mid tour because of stupid fights or because one of them was byuing a house and all that. just pointing this lightly, I don't want to go back to the same old who's-to-blame argument I agree. I don't think that Oasis ever did anything for the fans that they didn't want to do for themselves. They always seemed to do it for themselves and if the public liked it they liked it...if they didn't they didn't. They never chased their audience. The fact that they didn't pander and did it it like they wanted to do it was the best and worst thing about them. I also wouldn't believe them if they said they were only getting back together to make the fans happy. They'll do it when/if they want to...it'll have nothing to do with us. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 15:20:00 GMT -5
Noel has never been the type to shy away from giving a "real" opinion. If you disagree with his opinion that's fine, but at least he isn't giving us the same old, boring crap that most musicians give us in interviews.
about AIDS, Damon is over it, so why can't we get over it? I am over it too.
about Jay-Z, it was a comment about the status of the festival and the music scene more than anything against Black folks. Is it news that Noel is not a fan of rap? Really? Obviously he doesn't give a flying f*** about rap.
about the FANS, artists have to have a certain amount of distain for the fans in order to keep their sanity. Remember, the artist is putting themselves out there everyday to be crucified by fans and media. You have to be able to separate what is important in life, and Noel gets it now. His music will always be both loved and hated, it is a matter of personal taste. He has do what he feels is best for him. It doesn't matter what the fans think, want, or say.
That said, Noel has always been very gracious towards fans, and tends to appreciate the fans more than most artists. He gets it.
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Post by spaneli on Sept 10, 2012 15:33:25 GMT -5
It wasn't a racist comment. I certainly was not offended by it. Nor did I believe it was racist when I first heard it. And I'm half black. It was his opinion and to be honest, it was a fair musical opinion. To assume that he was referring to all black people when he made hos comments, if by far the most racist sentiment in my mind.
A.) Because it assumes that all black people do to perform is rap, as if blacks do not play instruments or sing and B.) it assumes that only blacks rap.
In terms of Noel saying that no one is Oasis cares about the fans, hey music is a business in the end. And very rarely is the business about fans having an opinion, especially in rock music. It's about pleasing yourself (you b3eing the artist) and you being happy with where you're going and what music you're making. Not the fans being happy. And I think that sentiment has definitely grown for both Gallaghers as they've made more money as illustrated by the comments around DOYS of, if people love it and buy, then great. If they don't, then we don't care.
If they reform, it won't be because of the fans. And it will be a bit of proof that money has always been an integral portion of how both Gallaghers have thought for sometime about their careers. Which is not a bad thing. That's life. The added bonus is that it makes them happy in the end.
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Post by dannybhoy19 on Sept 10, 2012 16:04:42 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be forgetting that Noel likes to play the media's hand and give them something to write about. Regarding the Oasis Fans Yes, they did it for themselves which, if the Truth be told most Artists do the fame is just part and parcel of the Industry. Regarding Money...lets be honest if there was no Money in anything We wanted to do or in Our jobs We would turn Our backs on it in a heartbeat. This is why I love Artists like Noel Gallagher and Tupac Shakur because,they are not afraid to say what is on their mind unlike most the cheesy dickheads One Direction for example
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Post by dannybhoy19 on Sept 10, 2012 16:08:13 GMT -5
I would also like to add Noel does care about the Fans more than He lets on for example, He is always talking during His Gigs and says Thank You after a Song and applauds during the break and at the end of the Gigs
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 10, 2012 17:28:15 GMT -5
How so? I don't see how thats so obviously true as you suggest. they said in many interviews they wanted to be the biggest band in the world. to me that translates to money and fame. yes, you need many fans to achieve that, but it doesn't feel like they cared much, or else they wouldn't leave the band mid tour because of stupid fights or because one of them was buying a house and all that. just pointing this lightly, I don't want to go back to the same old who's-to-blame argument Being the biggest band in the world is a prestige and status thing, have they enjoyed the money? Of course. Was it more important to Noel than writing songs that would go down in music history? I doubt it. A lot of what Noel say's about money specifically has been tongue in cheek. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 10, 2012 17:49:04 GMT -5
It wasn't a racist comment. I certainly was not offended by it. Nor did I believe it was racist when I first heard it. And I'm half black. It was his opinion and to be honest, it was a fair musical opinion. To assume that he was referring to all black people when he made hos comments, if by far the most racist sentiment in my mind. A.) Because it assumes that all black people do to perform is rap, as if blacks do not play instruments or sing and B.) it assumes that only blacks rap. In terms of Noel saying that no one is Oasis cares about the fans, hey music is a business in the end. And very rarely is the business about fans having an opinion, especially in rock music. It's about pleasing yourself (you b3eing the artist) and you being happy with where you're going and what music you're making. Not the fans being happy. And I think that sentiment has definitely grown for both Gallaghers as they've made more money as illustrated by the comments around DOYS of, if people love it and buy, then great. If they don't, then we don't care. If they reform, it won't be because of the fans. And it will be a bit of proof that money has always been an integral portion of how both Gallaghers have thought for sometime about their careers. Which is not a bad thing. That's life. The added bonus is that it makes them happy in the end. The Jay-z thing is a non starter, it has nothing to do with racism. Not only do I own the Jay-Z unplugged album and think its the best live rap album ever put out but I was also at Glastonbury that year and watching Jay-Z, it didn't work. In fact 7 songs in me and my mate ran over to the Other Stage to watch Massive Attack. I think speculating that money would be an integral part of any reformation is misleading. The most integral part of a reformation would be the repairing of there relationship. I've always found it weird on here about how many of the fans are obsessed by sales and exposure especially the American contingent. The artist has to please themselves in a musical sense of course they do but to suggest there is no thought for the people forking out there money is ridiculous. Both Noel and Liam have expressed this on many occasions. People here are basically suggesting they have no artistic integrity. This is patently untrue. |
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Post by spaneli on Sept 10, 2012 18:03:37 GMT -5
I think speculating that money would be an integral part of any reformation is misleading. The most integral part of a reformation would be the repairing of there relationship. I've always found it weird on here about how many of the fans are obsessed by sales and exposure especially the American contingent. The artist has to please themselves in a musical sense of course they do but to suggest there is no thought for the people forking out there money is ridiculous. Both Noel and Liam have expressed this on many occasions. People here are basically suggesting they have no artistic integrity. This is patently untrue. You don't think about the person forking over money when you're writing the song. You don't have a thought about the people forking over money when you make the album. You just don't. At least not any good artist. If you think that wanting money or wanting to make a lot of money destroys their integrity, then you're naive. Wanting one does not make one lose the other. Your artistic integrity is what you do when making the music. Noel and Liam have always thought about the music when they make it. Caring about fans and wanting money doesn't factor into either of those. Artistic integrity is about the creation. No one has said that they have no integrity. And them reforming would not automatically come if they ever repair their relationship. I have said from day one that the most important thing for them would be to repair their relationship. But it would be hard for me to believe that two people who have rarely been enamored touring with each other, would one day reform without money being at least a key factor. Look, I always sum this up with a quote from Connie Mack on baseball and I think it applies well here: "[Music] is too much of a game to be considered a business, but it's too much of a business to be considered a game." Edit: And let's not begin with "The North American" fans. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 10, 2012 18:19:21 GMT -5
I think speculating that money would be an integral part of any reformation is misleading. The most integral part of a reformation would be the repairing of there relationship. I've always found it weird on here about how many of the fans are obsessed by sales and exposure especially the American contingent. The artist has to please themselves in a musical sense of course they do but to suggest there is no thought for the people forking out there money is ridiculous. Both Noel and Liam have expressed this on many occasions. People here are basically suggesting they have no artistic integrity. This is patently untrue. You don't think about the person forking over money when you're writing the song. You don't have a thought about the people forking over money when you make the album. You just don't. At least not any good artist. If you think that wanting money or wanting to make a lot of money destroys their integrity, then you're naive. Wanting one does not make one lose the other. Your artistic integrity is what you do when making the music. Noel and Liam have always thought about the music when they make it. Caring about fans and wanting money doesn't factor into either of those. Artistic integrity is about the creation. No one has said that they have no integrity. And them reforming would not automatically come if they ever repair their relationship. I have said from day one that the most important thing for them would be to repair their relationship. But it would be hard for me to believe that two people who have rarely been enamored touring with each other, would one day reform without money being at least a key factor. Look, I always sum this up with a quote from Connie Mack on baseball and I think it applies well here: "[Music] is too much of a game to be considered a business, but it's too much of a business to be considered a game." I didn't say that at all in any way. Noel is writing a song and working on it because he believes its good, not because he believes its going to make him money. The suggestion that money and fame is the most important driving force suggests Noel would write songs to that end only. He's in a position where the money is irrelevant, I think Noel naturally writes good pop songs and from his record collection thats hardly surprising. 'Artistic integrity is about the creation.' errrrr...well yeah of course it is but artistic integrity is not held by creating tunes purely for the gains of wealth and fame, thats when you compromise it. To say they have hated touring with each other simply isn't true. They've complained about each other, fallen out walked off tours or traveled separately but the vast majority has been enjoyed. Both of them have alluded to this. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 10, 2012 18:21:30 GMT -5
I think speculating that money would be an integral part of any reformation is misleading. The most integral part of a reformation would be the repairing of there relationship. I've always found it weird on here about how many of the fans are obsessed by sales and exposure especially the American contingent. The artist has to please themselves in a musical sense of course they do but to suggest there is no thought for the people forking out there money is ridiculous. Both Noel and Liam have expressed this on many occasions. People here are basically suggesting they have no artistic integrity. This is patently untrue. Edit: And let's not begin with "The North American" fans. Why not? I don't think its unfair from what i've seen posted. For another country to have different thoughts or values wouldn't be a revelation or a slight. |
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dion
Oasis Roadie
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Post by dion on Sept 10, 2012 18:27:05 GMT -5
That is the most moronic use of the race card I've ever seen... take a bow you utter tool.
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Post by spaneli on Sept 10, 2012 18:32:46 GMT -5
Edit: And let's not begin with "The North American" fans. Why not? I don't think its unfair from what i've seen posted. For another country to have different thoughts or values wouldn't be a revelation or a slight. I believe it's wrong when you shift your conceptions on an entire continent. Especially when you attach what might be perceived as negative connotations to an entire continent. Your statement is just as foolish as the guy playing the race card. |
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Post by spaneli on Sept 10, 2012 18:33:08 GMT -5
That is the most moronic use of the race card I've ever seen... take a bow you utter tool. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 10, 2012 18:38:51 GMT -5
Why not? I don't think its unfair from what i've seen posted. For another country to have different thoughts or values wouldn't be a revelation or a slight. I believe it's wrong when you shift your conceptions on an entire continent. Especially when you attach what might be perceived as negative connotations to an entire continent. Your statement is just as foolish as the guy playing the race card. If you though I would apply it to an entire continent then you are foolish. I'm applying it to the the posters in this forum of which the trend seems to be that they are north American. I was not suggesting for one moment that Dr. Dre or Mitt Romney thinks that the exposure and record sales are the most important thing. |
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Post by paperbackwriter on Sept 10, 2012 22:44:44 GMT -5
Let the Jay-z thing go already...
what really surprised me was the fans comment. No one's arguing he never gave a shit about his fans (us, btw). What the topic creator (forgot your nickname, sorry) is pointing out is that he literally said it out loud. I can't see how you guys can even defend him for saying he doesn't give a shit about you.
I know he said it in the "I make music for me, not for the fans" vibe, but still... you don't say that about people who adore you and made you this rich and famous. Just saying...
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Post by sebi.white on Sept 10, 2012 23:23:54 GMT -5
... stopped reading at "black people shouldn't perform at a white festival" or whatever it is you mysteriously deducted from his glastonbury comments. Ridiculous.
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J-200
Oasis Roadie
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Post by J-200 on Sept 11, 2012 2:11:56 GMT -5
It wasn't a racist comment.
I think he means just they will not reform for the fans.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Sept 11, 2012 2:15:36 GMT -5
That is the most moronic use of the race card I've ever seen... take a bow you utter tool. |
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Post by mimmihopps on Sept 11, 2012 3:44:06 GMT -5
the AIDS comment was just wrong. and let's be honest, it was always about the money and fame, so even though it is a pretty shit comment, I'm not that surprised Noel has said "No one in Oasis gave a shit about the fans". like Mr Kite said, I wouldn't believe it either if they were saying they're coming back for the fans. Exactly. and the media always knows what they can sell and what not. |
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Post by truefaith on Sept 11, 2012 7:57:30 GMT -5
So Noel says "i don't give a shit about you" and you're ll "he's so right, he's god, he shouldn't give a shit about us".
It's the crappiest thing for an artist to say, you don't say that about people that make you rich and famous. He wasn't always saying that at all like you're saying.
And the best thing is he talk for the all band !
On the other hand the jay-z coment was right and not racist at all, you're crazy to think that, Noel just doesn't like rap and he's right.
The AIDS coment is forgiven, it was a long time ago and involved a lot of drugs.
But lately every coments he makes about Oasis, money, carreer and Liam makes him look like a complete shitbag.
And it is a fact that NA fans are obsessed by sales around here, I mean they even follow the mid week uk chart.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 8:01:19 GMT -5
They say you should never meet your heroes and that seems to be the case with Noel. I know a lot of people have met him and said he's great but there's also plenty of refusals to sign autographs and general indifference towards his fans.
I met Liam once and he seemed great. Shook my hand before I got as far as offering it to him and seemed genuinely grateful for what I said about the night.
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Post by RocketMan on Sept 11, 2012 8:03:26 GMT -5
So Noel says "i don't give a shit about you" and you're ll "he's so right, he's god, he shouldn't give a shit about us". It's the crappiest thing for an artist to say, you don't say that about people that make you rich and famous. He wasn't always saying that at all like you're saying. And the best thing is he talk for the all band ! i hate him now. he doesn't like me(his fan). i won't buy any albums anymore  tbh i don't give a flying f.ck what he thinks about his fans. that doesn't affect my life |
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Post by truefaith on Sept 11, 2012 8:12:25 GMT -5
So Noel says "i don't give a shit about you" and you're ll "he's so right, he's god, he shouldn't give a shit about us". It's the crappiest thing for an artist to say, you don't say that about people that make you rich and famous. He wasn't always saying that at all like you're saying. And the best thing is he talk for the all band ! i hate him now. he doesn't like me(his fan). i won't buy any albums anymore tbh i don't give a flying f.ck what he thinks about his fans. that doesn't affect my life Happy for you mate. They say you should never meet your heroes and that seems to be the case with Noel. I know a lot of people have met him and said he's great but there's also plenty of refusals to sign autographs and general indifference towards his fans. I met Liam once and he seemed great. Shook my hand before I got as far as offering it to him and seemed genuinely grateful for what I said about the night. And yet Liam is seen as the bad guy. I think anyone with half a brain can notice that Noel is a manipulative media slut. That doesn't keep him for being funny, smart and a great songwritter but also " a little bicth sometimes" like Liam said. |
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Post by paperbackwriter on Sept 11, 2012 9:51:08 GMT -5
So Noel says "i don't give a shit about you" and you're ll "he's so right, he's god, he shouldn't give a shit about us". It's the crappiest thing for an artist to say, you don't say that about people that make you rich and famous. He wasn't always saying that at all like you're saying. And the best thing is he talk for the all band ! But lately every coments he makes about Oasis, money, carreer and Liam makes him look like a complete shitbag. And it is a fact that NA fans are obsessed by sales around here, I mean they even follow the mid week uk chart. my thoughts exactly... |
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Post by spaneli on Sept 11, 2012 10:24:50 GMT -5
If they truely cared about the fans then Liam wouldn't have left a tour to buy a house, He would have done MTV Unplugged, he wouldn't have spit into the crowd and the VMA's (where regular people were standing, maybe not fans, but regular people), and he would have given a notice during DOYS that he was getting married.
If they truly cared about the fans then Noel wouldn't have left Oasis on their American tour, he wouldn't have left in 2000, he wouldn't have let Liam going to a wedding (and being a bit of dick about it, not telling his own brother) not get in the way of making a great album, and he wouldn't have left the band in 2009.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I met Liam, I met Noel...okay. So one day Noel wasn't at his best when you met him, or Noel was great when you met him or Liam was great when you met him. Yeah, cool story. But for me, it's one thing to be courteous when someone is actually right in front of you. That doesn't show you care. Being professional, not skipping out on tours, not spitting in crowds, actually showing that you give a shit, that's caring for the fans. And it's why I believe Noel when he says that Oasis didn't give a shit about the fans. Because their actual actions say they didn't.
Noel didn't say anything that Oasis themselves haven't proven already.
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