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Post by gdforever on Mar 5, 2012 14:10:50 GMT -5
But because NHFB doesn't have the same impact as societal deemed classics, it shouldn't be seen as a great album? Think a good analogy here would be looking at how the US and UK view The Smiths. The latter nation sees them as a great, classic, important band; whereas the former nation barely recognizes them (still waiting for their induction into the Hall of Fame, ridiculous). So because The Smiths aren't well known by the general US public, that should mean they aren't a great band? Nonsense. I agree with DM and MG staying great albums even if they were not classic. That's basically what I said. Their songwritting is so great in his own right, you don't need their cultural impact to see that. If was an hidden treasure, supersonic would be one of the greatest song I've heard in my life as well. BUT HFB doesn't mesure to that level, classic or not classic, cultural impact or not. The songwritting is good but far from DM or MG. Any masterpiece on DM and MG is far better than the entire HFB. IIAG is a great song, EOTR too (but not as good as Wonderwall or DLBIA), not the rest. In DM and MG you have countless unforgettable tunes that I've listed upstair. So saying HFB is a 9 is too much, what's so great in it that makes it one point away from DM and MG ? Dream on? STC? SOTWB ? SBAJF? compare to Slide away, Live forever, columbia, CS? You look foolish picking some of the least popular tunes on one album and comparing it to the most popular on TWO albums and then expecting people to buy that as an argument. Lets try this for the sake of argument. HFB is way better than DM and MG! What makes those albums even close? Digsy's Dinner? Hey Now? Roll With It? She's Electric? Swamp Song? compare those to EOTR, AKA...WAL, IIHAG. Not even close. Everyone is saying that MG and DM are better. But there is no reason that someone can't think that HFB is just a step down. IIHAG, EOTR, BA, WAL, TDOYAM, They are all great tunes in my books. That's half the album that I actually love. 5 song I legitimately adore. Even if the rest was filler that is enough for me to rate it extremely highly. But then STC is an great closer. RM is epic. SOTWB is really good. SB&JF and DO are the worst of the bunch and I still like them. Plus some people list DO as a highlight. So yeah...if I want to rate it as a 9/10 album I think I am perfectly justified. As judging by the poll results I'm not alone. So what if it isn't for you? I'm not saying you have to rate it how I would. So how about you shut the hell up about how "people can't rate it a 9" |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 5, 2012 14:13:19 GMT -5
maybe some people feel more connected to IIHAG as to WW. music is subjectiv and if somebody could honest explain me why he prefers the HFB-album over MG or DM than it's fine for me. But that's the thing. This dude it arguing that it is empirical fact that not only is impossible to like HFB as much as DM and MG...it is also impossible that you could like it only a little bit less. That if DM and MG are 10's it is absurd that anyone could thing that HFB is a 9 |
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Post by disconnected1976 on Mar 5, 2012 15:23:03 GMT -5
9. It's a really good record, consistent songwriting, great variety in the styles and tempos, plenty of catchy tunes. I wouldn't compare it to any Oasis record, because it's not an Oasis record but it's definitely one solid album. And it's got 10 tracks, and only one I would rate lower than the others (Stranded On The Wrong Beach, which is still good) so... 9 !
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Post by spaneli on Mar 5, 2012 18:33:01 GMT -5
Yes, I answered you. I said I was going by a criteria of songwriting. Which you completely ignored. I said in the end it depends on the criteria that a person takes. Which you seem not to be able to to get. As gd said, you could add instrumentation, you could put in mxing, you could put in a ton of criteria other than just songwriting, vocals, and production. Where did I ignore that ? I made a paragraph on it. The major point of my post is that judging only by the songwritting, HFB is very far behind MG and DM. You complitely ignored it. You just don't get that you've lost this debate and it's mainly because you either have chosen to ignore the point that I've been trying and that others have or that you just don't understand it. Go through all my posts right now and I want you to find the section where I said that any part of HFB was better than any part of MG or DM. Go find it. Have you found it yet? That's right, it doesn't exist. Yet you chose to use a whole paragraph to frame an argument as if I had said it. The problem is that you just never got the initial point. The point was that music is subjective and that depending on what criteria you judged HFB by, you could then conceivably judge it a 9. So say that you picked songwriting as your criteria, and that just based on that one criteria, you judged it a 9. Then was perfectly plausible. Or if instead of songwriting, you decided to judge the album just based, I don't know, for argument's sake, production. Well let's just say that you found it to be a 9. That doesn't mean that you think that album is a classic or as good as MG or DM or has songs that are better than any of the songs on MG or DM. It just means that you judged it a 9 based on that criteria. And that's the point that you failed to see and it's how there are two needless pages worth of argument that shouldn't have even gotten here if you had just accepted that music is subjective and that people judge by their own criteria, and that criteria can be on multiple aspects of an album or songs, or one particular element: whether songwriting, production, or whatever. |
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Post by matt on Mar 5, 2012 20:03:23 GMT -5
Also albums can be 10's without being classics. Classic implies a social standing. Quality+influence. To be truly classic you have to be a 10...but to be a 10 you don't have to be a classic. Think a good analogy here would be looking at how the US and UK view The Smiths. The latter nation sees them as a great, classic, important band; whereas the former nation barely recognizes them (still waiting for their induction into the Hall of Fame, ridiculous). So because The Smiths aren't well known by the general US public, that should mean they aren't a great band? Nonsense. Just a bit off topic here, but your point on the Hall of Fame is spot on. It's a load of bullshit - if that piece of Hollywood style nonsense had any legitimacy to it, The Smiths would of been put in there a long long time ago. |
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Post by spaneli on Mar 5, 2012 20:25:08 GMT -5
Think a good analogy here would be looking at how the US and UK view The Smiths. The latter nation sees them as a great, classic, important band; whereas the former nation barely recognizes them (still waiting for their induction into the Hall of Fame, ridiculous). So because The Smiths aren't well known by the general US public, that should mean they aren't a great band? Nonsense. Just a bit off topic here, but your point on the Hall of Fame is spot on. It's a load of bullshit - if that piece of Hollywood style nonsense had any legitimacy to it, The Smiths would of been put in there a long long time ago. Completely agree. The Smiths should be in the Rock N' Roll of Fame. It is the biggest qualm that I have with them. |
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Post by lionsden® on Mar 5, 2012 21:46:39 GMT -5
I think its Noel's best collection of songs since MG.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2012 22:09:32 GMT -5
I'm just curious, truefaith, if you give HFB a 6.5, then how do you rate HC? 4?5?
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Post by Bittersweet Split on Mar 6, 2012 3:08:18 GMT -5
Come on guys, albums aren't fucking math equations.
Yes, this is probably the strongest collection of songs in a long time, but its a long way off the strongest album.
Not every track on Morning Glory is amazing, but by the end of the album, you've gone through Cast No Shadow, Some Might Say, Wonderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger and you end it with the legendary Morning Glory - Champagne Supernova. Every song has an emotional tug, you really go through the whole album
There is nothing even close to that on Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds. On a song quality level, they are comparable, but as albums, its not even fucking close. 7 is probably a decent rating, I'd maybe even push it down to a 6.5. (On an Oasis scale of course, it's two hundred times better still than most music)
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Post by truefaith on Mar 6, 2012 5:43:03 GMT -5
Come on guys, albums aren't fucking math equations. Yes, this is probably the strongest collection of songs in a long time, but its a long way off the strongest album. Not every track on Morning Glory is amazing, but by the end of the album, you've gone through Cast No Shadow, Some Might Say, Wonderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger and you end it with the legendary Morning Glory - Champagne Supernova. Every song has an emotional tug, you really go through the whole album There is nothing even close to that on Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds. On a song quality level, they are comparable, but as albums, its not even fucking close. 7 is probably a decent rating, I'd maybe even push it down to a 6.5. (On an Oasis scale of course, it's two hundred times better still than most music) My point exactly. HFB is a nice album and of course music is subjective. But then you can look at an album in a man carreer. HFB is not very important in Noel carreer, not just because it won't make history, but just because he has done way better albums in his carreer. So rate it at 9 I don't care. But in the point of vue of his carreer, there's no way it's right behind DM and MG. Noel said so himself "its the strongest collection of songs", not "an amazing album right behind DM and MG", he also say 94-96 was his golden age, he doesn't say he recatch this level with HFB. He said IIAG was up there and he's right. The rest of the album is nice but we had a lot better by Noel. I guess it's a great album for 2011, but in Noel's carreer it's just a nice album. |
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Post by disconnected1976 on Mar 6, 2012 7:32:57 GMT -5
Come on guys, albums aren't fucking math equations. Yes, this is probably the strongest collection of songs in a long time, but its a long way off the strongest album. Not every track on Morning Glory is amazing, but by the end of the album, you've gone through Cast No Shadow, Some Might Say, Wonderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger and you end it with the legendary Morning Glory - Champagne Supernova. Every song has an emotional tug, you really go through the whole album There is nothing even close to that on Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds. On a song quality level, they are comparable, but as albums, its not even fucking close. 7 is probably a decent rating, I'd maybe even push it down to a 6.5. (On an Oasis scale of course, it's two hundred times better still than most music) It's precisely because it's not math equations that you can give it a 9 if you want to. As a record I really love it, the only slight problem I have is maybe that Stranded sounds a bit odd, it breaks the atmosphere a bit... But the rest of the sequence is just great, it's got that thing that makes you want to listen to the album on repeat. I listened to it 3 times in a row when it came out, and I can't get tired of it,it's really strong, both as songs and as a whole. It is a 9 record to me. |
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Post by disconnected1976 on Mar 6, 2012 7:35:51 GMT -5
Ratings should never express anything more than how you feel about a record on a scale anyway.
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Post by spaneli on Mar 6, 2012 8:00:36 GMT -5
Come on guys, albums aren't fucking math equations. Yes, this is probably the strongest collection of songs in a long time, but its a long way off the strongest album. Not every track on Morning Glory is amazing, but by the end of the album, you've gone through Cast No Shadow, Some Might Say, Wonderwall, Don't Look Back in Anger and you end it with the legendary Morning Glory - Champagne Supernova. Every song has an emotional tug, you really go through the whole album There is nothing even close to that on Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds. On a song quality level, they are comparable, but as albums, its not even fucking close. 7 is probably a decent rating, I'd maybe even push it down to a 6.5. (On an Oasis scale of course, it's two hundred times better still than most music) My point exactly. HFB is a nice album and of course music is subjective. But then you can look at an album in a man carreer. HFB is not very important in Noel carreer, not just because it won't make history, but just because he has done way better albums in his carreer. So rate it at 9 I don't care. But in the point of vue of his carreer, there's no way it's right behind DM and MG. Noel said so himself "its the strongest collection of songs", not "an amazing album right behind DM and MG", he also say 94-96 was his golden age, he doesn't say he recatch this level with HFB. He said IIAG was up there and he's right. The rest of the album is nice but we had a lot better by Noel. I guess it's a great album for 2011, but in Noel's carreer it's just a nice album. As another user pointed out, it's not a math question. That's why you can give it a 9. You still fail to see the point. You still feel as if your opinion is fact. And that's why you'll continually get blow back from people on this forum. People don't like to be told what they "can't" do, and you seem intent on saying it. You're not going prove what you want. It's why this debate is still going on when it really shouldn't be. The fact that you can't prove what you want should tell you that your original statement of how anyone can rate this a 9, was a short sight and full heart comment imo. It's a person' opinion. People on here were willing to respect yours until you tried to turn opinion into fact and act as if no one can have it as a "9" or somehow shouldn't have that opinion because it doesn't fit into your narrative. |
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Post by RocketMan on Mar 6, 2012 8:52:29 GMT -5
thats the reason why i hate ratings because there isn't one simply true and mathematically correct rating to judge an album. you can only argue why YOU think one album isn't better than the other, but you can't say your opinion on an album is a fact.
i could say that morning glory is an album 10/10 and the dark side of the moon by pink floyd is 5/10 but i could find 10 people who are saying it's the complete opposite because of this, this, this and this. you can't classify music on a scale because it's all about personal taste and opinion in the end. thats why i hate reviews with ratings in the end. a good review is always without ratings
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Post by truefaith on Mar 7, 2012 11:53:20 GMT -5
My point exactly. HFB is a nice album and of course music is subjective. But then you can look at an album in a man carreer. HFB is not very important in Noel carreer, not just because it won't make history, but just because he has done way better albums in his carreer. So rate it at 9 I don't care. But in the point of vue of his carreer, there's no way it's right behind DM and MG. Noel said so himself "its the strongest collection of songs", not "an amazing album right behind DM and MG", he also say 94-96 was his golden age, he doesn't say he recatch this level with HFB. He said IIAG was up there and he's right. The rest of the album is nice but we had a lot better by Noel. I guess it's a great album for 2011, but in Noel's carreer it's just a nice album. As another user pointed out, it's not a math question. That's why you can give it a 9. You still fail to see the point. You still feel as if your opinion is fact. And that's why you'll continually get blow back from people on this forum. People don't like to be told what they "can't" do, and you seem intent on saying it. You're not going prove what you want. It's why this debate is still going on when it really shouldn't be. The fact that you can't prove what you want should tell you that your original statement of how anyone can rate this a 9, was a short sight and full heart comment imo. It's a person' opinion. People on here were willing to respect yours until you tried to turn opinion into fact and act as if no one can have it as a "9" or somehow shouldn't have that opinion because it doesn't fit into your narrative. I've never said my opinion was a fact, next time I'll put IMO every sentence. I've just think it's surprising people rate so high, just behind DM and MG. But I don't care in the end, I just find it a bit enthusiastic. Stop arguing like a lawyer every time I say something. If I ask how is HFB right behind DM and MG on songwritting, then try to explain to me why is it for you, speak of the song in detail, I don't know. Instead you're picking every word I use. I don't think I'm direspectfull if I am I apologise. My opinion are just for me but I won't write IMO every time, it'll be boring. But you spend a lot of time arguing on the way I say thing, or the word I use, or the statement I make when I said HFB isn't right behind MG instead of explaining to me why is it for you, which could be very more interesting. |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2012 11:56:59 GMT -5
As another user pointed out, it's not a math question. That's why you can give it a 9. You still fail to see the point. You still feel as if your opinion is fact. And that's why you'll continually get blow back from people on this forum. People don't like to be told what they "can't" do, and you seem intent on saying it. You're not going prove what you want. It's why this debate is still going on when it really shouldn't be. The fact that you can't prove what you want should tell you that your original statement of how anyone can rate this a 9, was a short sight and full heart comment imo. It's a person' opinion. People on here were willing to respect yours until you tried to turn opinion into fact and act as if no one can have it as a "9" or somehow shouldn't have that opinion because it doesn't fit into your narrative. I've never said my opinion was a fact, next time I'll put IMO every sentence. I've just think it's surprising people rate so high, just behind DM and MG. But I don't care in the end, I just find it a bit enthusiastic. Stop arguing like a lawyer every time I say something. If I say why is HFB right behind DM and MG on songwritting, then try to explain to me why is it for you, speak of the song in detail, I on't know. Instead you're picking every word I use. I don't think I'm direspectfull if I am I apologise. My opinion are just for me but I won't write IMO every time, it'll be boring. But you spend a lot of time arguing on the way or the word I use or the statement I make when I said HFB isn't right behind MG instead of explaining to me why is it for you, which could be very more interesting. Maybe you shouldn't have started an argument with people about whether other people are justified in giving a rating if you are going to cry personal opinion. Nobody was arguing with you to changing your opinion. You were the one that dismissed other peoples opinions as invalid because they didn't correspond with yours. That is why you were being disrespectful, IMO. |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2012 12:00:39 GMT -5
Question for those who rate it at 9, It means it's one point away from DM or MG ? Really? You literally asked for people to justify their rating! And now you arr acting the injured party and complaining that people have been justifying their rating to you. Give me a break! Maybe we should all put IMO in our posts so that you don't continue to attack our opinions. We weren't the problem here. All this discussion had nothing to do with us taking issue with your ludicrously low rating of 6.5. It had to do with you attacking us on whether or not we should give it a 9 |
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Post by truefaith on Mar 7, 2012 12:01:41 GMT -5
I've never said my opinion was a fact, next time I'll put IMO every sentence. I've just think it's surprising people rate so high, just behind DM and MG. But I don't care in the end, I just find it a bit enthusiastic. Stop arguing like a lawyer every time I say something. If I say why is HFB right behind DM and MG on songwritting, then try to explain to me why is it for you, speak of the song in detail, I on't know. Instead you're picking every word I use. I don't think I'm direspectfull if I am I apologise. My opinion are just for me but I won't write IMO every time, it'll be boring. But you spend a lot of time arguing on the way or the word I use or the statement I make when I said HFB isn't right behind MG instead of explaining to me why is it for you, which could be very more interesting. Maybe you shouldn't have started an argument with people about whether other people are justified in giving a rating if you are going to cry personal opinion. Nobody was arguing with you to changing your opinion. You were the one that dismissed other peoples opinions as invalid because they didn't correspond with yours. Don't you think you're a little sensitive? When I post something it's just the way I see it. If it's a little provocative sometimes then it is. I don't have to justify an opinion. I prefer when someone argue on music and explain thing to me the way they see it. Instead you're picking every word I use and you're oversensitive. It's just a forum. I don't think I've insulted people. I've just ask how HFB can be behind DM and MG, when I said "9 is too much", understand "9 is too much in my fucking personnal opinion". And argue on the music, not on my "tone"... |
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Post by truefaith on Mar 7, 2012 12:02:43 GMT -5
The production is awfull on a lot of tracks, the drums are awfull too. It's like every song has weap cream on it when they could have sounded very elegant. There is some exeption like RM and TDOYAM in wich the production fits the song. Noel doesn't sound particulary good in any song, he pushes his voice very hard when his best singing are when he sings softly. The type of song is very redudant, 3 kinks like (TDOYAM, DO, SBAJF), all is very mid tempo, all of this sounds like an Oasis album without Liam. So Noel spent 10 years talking about doing a solo album to realise he has nothing more to offer in his songwritting than what he had already made in Oasis... It's even poorer than an Oasis album since it doesn't have any energy. Some songs are the best from Noel since BHN (EOTR, IIAG, RM). Some are nice surprise (WAL), the rest is boring but the quality is alright, no real shit, nothing special either. And as usual a masterpiece as a bside, ASGOG. 6.5/10 Question for those who rate it at 9, It means it's one point away from DM or MG ? Really? And ? It's my review. I haven't the right to have a mix review of Noel's album? God....How in the world is this direspectfull? |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2012 12:15:39 GMT -5
Maybe you shouldn't have started an argument with people about whether other people are justified in giving a rating if you are going to cry personal opinion. Nobody was arguing with you to changing your opinion. You were the one that dismissed other peoples opinions as invalid because they didn't correspond with yours. Don't you think you're a little sensitive? When I post something it's just the way I see it. If it's a little provocative sometimes then it is. I don't have to justify an opinion. I prefer when someone argue on music and explain thing to me the way they see it. Instead you're picking every word I use and you're oversensitive. It's just a forum. I don't think I've insulted people. I've just ask how HFB can be behind DM and MG, when I said "9 is too much", understand "9 is too much in my fucking personnal opinion". And argue on the music, not on my "tone"... You ASKED people to justify their opinions to you. And then you complained when they did so because THEY weren't respecting YOUR opinion? No one was asking you to justify your opinion. The original replies were all in defense of the posters own opinions which you asked them to justify to you. You are a hypocrite of the highest order. |
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Post by truefaith on Mar 7, 2012 12:21:39 GMT -5
Don't you think you're a little sensitive? When I post something it's just the way I see it. If it's a little provocative sometimes then it is. I don't have to justify an opinion. I prefer when someone argue on music and explain thing to me the way they see it. Instead you're picking every word I use and you're oversensitive. It's just a forum. I don't think I've insulted people. I've just ask how HFB can be behind DM and MG, when I said "9 is too much", understand "9 is too much in my fucking personnal opinion". And argue on the music, not on my "tone"... You ASKED people to justify their opinions to you. And then you complained when they did so because THEY weren't respecting YOUR opinion? You are a hypocrite of the highest order. Where did I complain? I complain because I find it tirering to read an entire post by Spanelli on the word I used instead of music. THIS IS ABOUT MUSIC Who cares about the word I use, IT'S ALL ABOUT MUSIC like Noel said. "Hypocrite"  ...You're a oversensitive of the highest order. I'm done here. I won't argue on my tone on a forum for hours. Let's talk about music shall we, that's all I ever done. |
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Post by truefaith on Mar 7, 2012 12:26:15 GMT -5
Question for those who rate it at 9, It means it's one point away from DM or MG ? Really? You literally asked for people to justify their rating! And now you arr acting the injured party and complaining that people have been justifying their rating to you. Give me a break! Maybe we should all put IMO in our posts so that you don't continue to attack our opinions. We weren't the problem here. All this discussion had nothing to do with us taking issue with your ludicrously low rating of 6.5. It had to do with you attacking us on whether or not we should give it a 9 I don't complain about people justifying their rating. Justify a rating is called a debate. Asking someone to justify an opinion is called a debate. Arguing on my tone for hours like Spanelli does is irrelevant. Let be clear since it seems hard for you. Arguing about music = interesting. Me not complaining about people's opinion. Me want people to explain to me their opinions because this is called debate. Arguing about my tone, my word, the way I say thing I think, the so called disrespect I show = irrelevant. Who cares? Let's talk about MUSIC. |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Mar 7, 2012 12:34:01 GMT -5
Is this debate really still going on? And it's a 9 because NL4E says it is!  |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Mar 7, 2012 12:34:43 GMT -5
You literally asked for people to justify their rating! And now you arr acting the injured party and complaining that people have been justifying their rating to you. Give me a break! Maybe we should all put IMO in our posts so that you don't continue to attack our opinions. We weren't the problem here. All this discussion had nothing to do with us taking issue with your ludicrously low rating of 6.5. It had to do with you attacking us on whether or not we should give it a 9 I don't complain about people justifying their rating. Justify a rating is called a debate. Asking someone to justify an opinion is called a debate. Arguing on my tone for hours like Spanelli does is irrelevant. Let be clear since it seems hard for you. Arguing about music = interesting. Me not complaining about people's opinion. Me want people to explain to me their opinions because this is called debate. Arguing about my tone, my word, the way I say thing I think, the so called disrespect I show = irrelevant. Who cares? Let's talk about MUSIC. Noel rules. |
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Post by gdforever on Mar 7, 2012 12:43:08 GMT -5
Maybe you shouldn't have started an argument with people about whether other people are justified in giving a rating if you are going to cry personal opinion. Nobody was arguing with you to changing your opinion. You were the one that dismissed other peoples opinions as invalid because they didn't correspond with yours. Don't you think you're a little sensitive? When I post something it's just the way I see it. If it's a little provocative sometimes then it is. I don't have to justify an opinion. I prefer when someone argue on music and explain thing to me the way they see it. Instead you're picking every word I use and you're oversensitive. It's just a forum. I don't think I've insulted people. I've just ask how HFB can be behind DM and MG, when I said "9 is too much", understand "9 is too much in my fucking personnal opinion". And argue on the music, not on my "tone"... "I don't have to justify an opinion" Interesting that this all started because you aske people to justify their opinions to you. HYPOCRITE |
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...You're a oversensitive of the highest order. I'm done here. I won't argue on my tone on a forum for hours. Let's talk about music shall we, that's all I ever done.
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5