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Post by lillyjean123 on Oct 28, 2010 14:35:28 GMT -5
I've read the book and I understand how u are all thinking,I looks like Tony wanted 2 give credit 2 other people around the band rather than himself ,taking it away from noel,we all know that Noel has taken all the credit 4 the success of the band, maybe time 2 look at the real picture, love the book Tony well done!!
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Post by lillyjean123 on Oct 28, 2010 14:36:46 GMT -5
Bigun is Paul ashbee not Tony Mac!
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Post by sword on Oct 28, 2010 15:21:55 GMT -5
I'm about 3/4 way through. It's not a bad effort. More of a fly on the wall diary. Similar to the book by Paulo Hewitt (Forever The People). Although Tony doesn't go into great detail about his own performance, ambitions and input, the book is not really aimed at this. It's more an insight into band politics, ego's, back stabbing and what went on behind the scenes. Quite interesting. If you have read the book by Ian Robertson, then this book by Tony is a good compliment. Life on the road and behind the scenes in the early years. That's not exactly what it says on the tin though, is it? It's supposed to be the first biography by a member of Oasis...so it says on my booksleeve. So yeah...I expected a book full of nuance and explanations about why things happened handled in a way that they were...other than that Noel decided it single-handedly and Tony sat in a corner frustrated that he hadn't been asked. So far the book is a study in generalities. I don't see where you get that it is about band politics or even egos that aren't Noel's. And all the backstabbing that I have read so far has been Noel backstabbing Tony, not even the rest of the band. They have been in a band for 3 years as far as I have read...I don't know anything about Boneheads relationship with anyone other than Noel (and that is only because Tony relates a single incident in which Bonehead yells @ Noel 1 year into the band or so and nothing beyond that) and Tony (and that is just that he liked him when he met him because he was a fun drunk). I know nothing about Guigs relationship with anyone (not even Tony although Tony was friends with Guigs more than just about anyone and appeared earlier in the book than anyone). I have a half-assed impression on Liam and Noel singularly lacking in any sort of nuance. Basically Liam is a desperately Noel-approval seeking young man who never did anything that could possibly be construed as provocative towards Noel, and Noel is a bully who does nothing but insult Liam. Basically Liam is a 6 day old puppy and Noel is the guy that kicks him. I find the description reductive to the point of charicature. Even more so than the view of them in the tabloids...and that takes some doing I think. And I know nothing about Liam's relationship with anyone else! Noel is the only person that has related with every person in the book...and mostly it's just a series of encounters in which Noel is running roughshod over 'em How can it be a behind the scenes memoire if there is no information on band dynamics?...other than Noel walked around bullying people, Liam panted waiting for approval, Bonehead sat on a fence, Guigs constantly agreed with Noel, and Tony is a void. Honestly this book has actually left me with more respect, rather than less, for Noel's involvement in the success of Oasis. I find it interesting that Tony asserts early in the book that it was far from a case of Noel being the chief from the moment that he joined the band and then he spends the next few chapters giving lie to that claim. But the fact is that even from his description that seems to have have been very much the case. It was Noel that got them on the Radio the first time, that got them in the studio with the Real People (who Tony gives more credit for DM than pretty much anyone else...even Oasis it seems like @ times), got them their first TV appearance (although their portion ended up not-airing), and single-handedly got them in touch with people like Johnny Marr and Mark Russell who would be their management. Honestly...I think that Noel worked harder than I thought that he did in those early years...the way that he always told was that it all just kinda fell into place. They practiced, they gigged a few times, they got picked up by McGee, it was all golden. But I can't help but realise that for every one of these opportunities that Noel presented to the band (Tony seems to have been oblivious to how most of them came about...so I am guessing that he wasn't actually keeping that close an eye on what Noel was doing...little did he know that one day money would rely on him recalling the minutia of everything that Noel did in those early years) there must have been dozens of failed attempts. I have to say i agree with almost everything you posted. And also your previous post. Without getting into a tit-for-tat on here, i just want to say i respect your comments. I hope you respect mine. You mention Guigsy relationship with Tony. Tony clearly explains their relationship started in 1984. Tony went out of his way to keep Guigsy in the band, during a conversation with Liam (Piccadilly Gardens 1992). I think there is band politics played out Tony's story. Each band member clearly has their own agenda and ranking. Bonehead was the nice guy who took the middle ground in conflict. Guigsy by all acounts was vindictive, in the shadows back stabber (possibly covering his own flaws of bass playing), Liam was center stage, while Noel was the egotistical bully, who held rank over Marcus Russell on the sacking of Tony. Like i said in my last post it's a fly on the wall run down of the early years. Not a masterpiece, and possibly helped out with a ghostwriter. Either way. We all know the score. The outcome is pretty much what we already know. Interesting to read you that your opinion of Noel has grown after reading the book. My opinion has not. The story about the input from the Real People should not be ignored. Nor should Noel requesting the Real People be removed from future guest lists. I didn't like reading this. I wouldn't knock Noel's ambition. Clearly he had a Masterplan. Just his behaviour is what i would call 'shallow'. And how many times has Noel walked out on tour? Each to their own. A decent book. Not a classic. Just a warts an all diary.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 28, 2010 15:39:06 GMT -5
I've read the book and I understand how u are all thinking,I looks like Tony wanted 2 give credit 2 other people around the band rather than himself ,taking it away from noel,we all know that Noel has taken all the credit 4 the success of the band, maybe time 2 look at the real picture, love the book Tony well done!! There are two people within the band deserve credit for getting oasis where they got and both of them are Gallagher. Any other musicians could have done what the other three did (and in the case of Guigs that alctually happened as Noel played his parts). Liam would have got NOWHERE without Noel's Masterplan just as Noel's Masterplan would have been useless without the voice of Liam Gallagher. I don't believe the Real People had as big an input as Tony makes out. Yes they were a massive help towards the band but I don't think they wrote the majority of DM the way Tony says....
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Post by gdforever on Oct 28, 2010 16:16:53 GMT -5
I have to say i agree with almost everything you posted. And also your previous post. Without getting into a tit-for-tat on here, i just want to say i respect your comments. I hope you respect mine. You mention Guigsy relationship with Tony. Tony clearly explains their relationship started in 1984. Tony went out of his way to keep Guigsy in the band, during a conversation with Liam (Piccadilly Gardens 1992). I think there is band politics played out Tony's story. Each band member clearly has their own agenda and ranking. Bonehead was the nice guy who took the middle ground in conflict. Guigsy by all acounts was vindictive, in the shadows back stabber (possibly covering his own flaws of bass playing), Liam was center stage, while Noel was the egotistical bully, who held rank over Marcus Russell on the sacking of Tony. Like i said in my last post it's a fly on the wall run down of the early years. Not a masterpiece, and possibly helped out with a ghostwriter. Either way. We all know the score. The outcome is pretty much what we already know. Interesting to read you that your opinion of Noel has grown after reading the book. My opinion has not. The story about the input from the Real People should not be ignored. Nor should Noel requesting the Real People be removed from future guest lists. I didn't like reading this. I wouldn't knock Noel's ambition. Clearly he had a Masterplan. Just his behaviour is what i would call 'shallow'. And how many times has Noel walked out on tour? Each to their own. A decent book. Not a classic. Just a warts an all diary. I just think it's a bit stupid that they made this more an unflattering biography of Noel Gallagher than a biography of Tony McCarrol. I don't care whos fault that is. I'm not going to say anything about what I think of Noel or anyone else in the book for that matter. That isn't really the point of any of my posts. Basically all I want to say is that the book is badly written. Their is no pacing, little character development in the central figures, etc. I was interested in a book by Tony McCarroll...hence why I bought it. What I got was a pile of aeseptic crap lacking in voice, personality, or narrative. Maybe it's the ghostwriter but the fact is that this book isn't that good. You're right when you say that it's more like a diary than a book. Just a meandering teenage diary full of random events serving no purpose other than to fill pages. I have read many biographies over the years...most of them I know how they are going to end as most biographies are written by people in the public eye, and most of the ones I read are by people that I am more than passingly familiar with their story. But even a biography is a book. And books need to have themes and a narrative. That is where the self-reflection comes in. The worst biographies take the format of this happened then this happened then that happened. The best biographies are written when the person picks a theme that he thinks encapsulates his life and then builds a narrative. Unfortunately this book falls into the former category. I said before that I thought it would be unfortunate if Tony didn't take advantage of this opportunity to tell his story. If he got to bogged down in bitterness and relaying all the events that upset him more than 15 years ago and didn't tell his story...it's sad because this was his one chance. Noel isn't gone...he is in the public eye for a long time to come. Tony had this last chance...and unfortunately the result of this book was that even in the book Tony was pushed aside by the spectre of Noel...and this time noone can even blame Noel. Tony did it to himself.
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Post by gdforever on Oct 28, 2010 16:26:01 GMT -5
I've read the book and I understand how u are all thinking,I looks like Tony wanted 2 give credit 2 other people around the band rather than himself ,taking it away from noel,we all know that Noel has taken all the credit 4 the success of the band, maybe time 2 look at the real picture, love the book Tony well done!! There are two people within the band deserve credit for getting oasis where they got and both of them are Gallagher. Any other musicians could have done what the other three did (and in the case of Guigs that alctually happened as Noel played his parts). Liam would have got NOWHERE without Noel's Masterplan just as Noel's Masterplan would have been useless without the voice of Liam Gallagher. I don't believe the Real People had as big an input as Tony makes out. Yes they were a massive help towards the band but I don't think they wrote the majority of DM the way Tony says.... I kind of agree with this. Any band, as long as Noel and Liam were in it, would have become a close approximation of Oasis. As for the Real People. Even Tony doesn't actually say that they wrote any of the songs. The song were all written by Noel...but he was helped out by the Real People showing how to create bridges and tips on song structure. But nowhere does he actually say that any of the songs were written by anyone other than Noel. When they went to sign the record deal Tony specifically says that noone in the band had any problems with Noel getting sole songwriting credits...it seems to be that retrospectively he is applying additional credit to the Realies that nobody thought @ the time. If Tony really thought they they did enough to deserve credit I am a bit confused by that. But frankly all that is moot because without a doubt the single best song that was on that album was Live Forever, and even Tony says that the Realies never heard that. Slide Away is my second favorite...and they didn't have anything to do with that either.
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Post by sword on Oct 28, 2010 17:23:18 GMT -5
Any of you read the book by Ian Robertson? Released in 1996 and something of a classic. Ian was the securtiy/tour manager 1994-1995. A very intelligent book. Well written. Colours, atmosphere, conversations, situations are all told in a spell binding manner. A great in-sight to life on the road in the Oasis early years.
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Post by gdforever on Oct 28, 2010 17:41:44 GMT -5
Any of you read the book by Ian Robertson? Released in 1996 and something of a classic. Ian was the securtiy/tour manager 1994-1995. A very intelligent book. Well written. Colours, atmosphere, conversations, situations are all told in a spell binding manner. A great in-sight to life on the road in the Oasis early years. Maybe I'll try that next...to get the bad taste out of my mouth from this one. LOL All I can say after reading this book is that Tony had to leave. I think that to spend as much time together as a band does you have to like and respect eachother. If Tony and Noel couldn't get on someone had to leave...and there was no way it was gonna be Noel. There has got to be more to this story than Tony is saying. According to Tony, he and Noel only got in 2 arguements their whole association with the second one leading to his dismissal. I am having a hard time fathoming the extent of the bad blood between the 2 of them then. I mean...Noel may have been a strong-willed bastard...but I'd be curious to hear Noel's side of the story. His actual story...not the off-the-cuff comments he is constantly coming out with to brush off interviews about Tony's hair. I can see Tony as being a very insidious, talk-behind-your-back, encourage-others-to-rebel kind of person. There are inklings of it throughout the book. The relish with which Tony relates situations in which events spiral out of control and Noel is left upset or frustrated.
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Post by Rita on Oct 28, 2010 20:35:46 GMT -5
I read that one, and really enjoyed it as well. But so far the one by Paul Gallagher was the one I liked the most. Or the one by Paolo Hewitt... also very good, even though it's maybe a little bit dramatized.
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Post by gdforever on Oct 28, 2010 21:44:23 GMT -5
I read that one, and really enjoyed it as well. But so far the one by Paul Gallagher was the one I liked the most. Or the one by Paolo Hewitt... also very good, even though it's maybe a little bit dramatized. I really like the Paul Gallagher one too!
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Post by globe on Oct 29, 2010 2:10:31 GMT -5
I've read the book and I understand how u are all thinking,I looks like Tony wanted 2 give credit 2 other people around the band rather than himself ,taking it away from noel,we all know that Noel has taken all the credit 4 the success of the band, maybe time 2 look at the real picture, love the book Tony well done!! There are two people within the band deserve credit for getting oasis where they got and both of them are Gallagher. Any other musicians could have done what the other three did (and in the case of Guigs that alctually happened as Noel played his parts). . That is a load of pish. One of the reasons they were such a great band is because they were a gang, a bunch of mates. You obviously didn't see them live in the early days, they had a great chemistry between the whole band which was missing after Bonehead and Guigs left.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 29, 2010 5:48:03 GMT -5
There are two people within the band deserve credit for getting oasis where they got and both of them are Gallagher. Any other musicians could have done what the other three did (and in the case of Guigs that alctually happened as Noel played his parts). . That is a load of pish. One of the reasons they were such a great band is because they were a gang, a bunch of mates. You obviously didn't see them live in the early days, they had a great chemistry between the whole band which was missing after Bonehead and Guigs left. If you read the book it's clear there really was no gang mentality. Look at all the interviews (ever) it's always just Noel and Liam. No one could have given two fucks about the rest of the band.
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Post by mimmihopps on Oct 29, 2010 6:32:52 GMT -5
I've read the book and I understand how u are all thinking,I looks like Tony wanted 2 give credit 2 other people around the band rather than himself ,taking it away from noel,we all know that Noel has taken all the credit 4 the success of the band, maybe time 2 look at the real picture, love the book Tony well done!! There are two people within the band deserve credit for getting oasis where they got and both of them are Gallagher. Any other musicians could have done what the other three did (and in the case of Guigs that alctually happened as Noel played his parts). Liam would have got NOWHERE without Noel's Masterplan just as Noel's Masterplan would have been useless without the voice of Liam Gallagher. I don't believe the Real People had as big an input as Tony makes out. Yes they were a massive help towards the band but I don't think they wrote the majority of DM the way Tony says.... I think Oasis would never have been Oasis if there was no Bonehead and Guigsy. Liam is the face of the band and Noel is the brain of the band, but just two of them? No, they could never have been Walker Brothers.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 29, 2010 6:50:21 GMT -5
I'm not saying oasis only needed two members, i'm saying Noel and Liam Gallagher + any 3 other members
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bigun
Madferrit Fan
Seem to be lots of negativity and untruths flying around this forum. Noel would be proud.
Posts: 52
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Post by bigun on Oct 29, 2010 9:09:43 GMT -5
My word, a man takes a few days away and all hell breaks loose................Where do I start? Firstly the gentleman who accuses me of joining this forum to sell more books from which I will then reap my rewards I have a soiltary question. What rewards? Tool.
The only reason I joined this forum was excitement. Yes I admit it. I was excited about the fact that I was to feature in a book and for that I will not apologise.
On the defence of Noel Gallagher it has been already pointed out that Noel doesn't just 'occassionally' refer to Tony's hair or drumming. It has been an ongoing personal attack since 1995. If anyone is unsure as to how vindictive or nasty Noel can be just send me a message and I will forward you evidence.
It's Tony's daughter and son who I feel for. Can't have been great reading about people telling the world they were going to stab your father (McGuigan) or calling your father 'thick' (Noel).
For those who feel the dynamics of the band aren't explained thoroyghly enough in the book let me explain. Noel ran the show much to the unhappiness of Liam. Liam liked Bonehead and Tony and they were the 'mad fer it' group within the group. McGuigan followed behind Noel, nodding his head in agreement. McGuigan knew just how vicious Noel could be and was aware that loyalty wasn't a word that Noel used often. Bonehead,Liam and Tony still speak. Noel and McGuigan do not speak to any of the original members. Says it all I guess.
I have just read reviews from The Guardian and The Independent that hail the book as a masterpiece in it's field! I'd rather listen to these qualified critics than GDForever who has a big fuck off hornet in her boonet. Although she is entitled to her opinion it pretty obvious that she has issues. You can almost see the anger dripping off the lines as she writes. I'm simply putting this down to some adolescent infatuation and hope that time will heal her.
Can I also just thank the people that have bought the book. Your feedback has been wonderful and yes I might even release my own book!
Here's to the people, The Lord Mayor of Manchester, BigUn.
regards Bigun
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Post by sword on Oct 29, 2010 9:23:46 GMT -5
Cheers Big Un. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i enjoyed reading yours. Good stuff. This site is the main Oasis sites and with it a lot of various opinions on all things related. I enjoyed Tony's book. A good read. Although i was expecting perhaps more detail on Tonys involvement within the group. I appreciated the angle of the book was to iron out a few cheap remarks from Noel over the last 15 years. Tony certainly put the record straight on his version of events. Just would of been nice to know more about the recording process within the group, and the live shows they performed. Interesting to read Guigsy didn't feature of Definitley Maybe. That came as a surprise. Might explain why Guigsy did not include himself in the 10 year anniversary dvd? Now for the bad news. I couldn't help notice a few tiny mistakes in the book. Yes, i'm a sad bastard. But these mistakes were pretty obvious to me. 1 - Tony discusses Whatever in December 1994 as their fourth single (p 215). Incorrect. Whatever was the bands fifth single. 2 - Liam is quoted after an American interview in 1995 by saying something like "they don't understand a bright bunch like us with deodorant on". This quote is from Select magazine 1997 (some 2 years after Tony left the band) when discussing the Be Here Now album and the fall out from the last American tour. 3. The black and white photo of Liam (on scooter) says 1993. The correct date is summer 1995. Sorry man! But little things like this are obvious to me. I suppose you could call me an anorak or sad bastard.
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 29, 2010 9:34:48 GMT -5
Just to counter what Bigun said about reviews -- This is the most dedicated Oasis forum on the internet, and you won't find many others who are heavily passionate about Oasis as us. With that being said, and with Tony's audience being Oasis fans, the reviews of us matter more than someone sitting in an office reviewing the literacy perspective of the book. Tony is trying to get his story out, and if the majority of the Oasis fans don't believe that Tony is being genuine and that he has an ulterior motive, then he has ultimately failed, despite 'glowing' reviews from The Guardian, etc.
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Post by thebollox on Oct 29, 2010 9:43:16 GMT -5
Im new here so I'll keep it short,I read the book a week or so ago in two sittings,loved it,so what if its off on some details,Its one guys account,one sided it maybe but there info there for fans of the band that I;ve never read anywhere else before.
A day will come when the brothers will put pen to paper.In the mean time ,anyone who likes the band should buy it and read it,support your local umemployed drummer.
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Post by spaneli on Oct 29, 2010 9:50:17 GMT -5
My word, a man takes a few days away and all hell breaks loose................Where do I start? Firstly the gentleman who accuses me of joining this forum to sell more books from which I will then reap my rewards I have a soiltary question. What rewards? Tool. The only reason I joined this forum was excitement. Yes I admit it. I was excited about the fact that I was to feature in a book and for that I will not apologise. On the defence of Noel Gallagher it has been already pointed out that Noel doesn't just 'occassionally' refer to Tony's hair or drumming. It has been an ongoing personal attack since 1995. If anyone is unsure as to how vindictive or nasty Noel can be just send me a message and I will forward you evidence. It's Tony's daughter and son who I feel for. Can't have been great reading about people telling the world they were going to stab your father (McGuigan) or calling your father 'thick' (Noel). For those who feel the dynamics of the band aren't explained thoroyghly enough in the book let me explain. Noel ran the show much to the unhappiness of Liam. Liam liked Bonehead and Tony and they were the 'mad fer it' group within the group. McGuigan followed behind Noel, nodding his head in agreement. McGuigan knew just how vicious Noel could be and was aware that loyalty wasn't a word that Noel used often. Bonehead,Liam and Tony still speak. Noel and McGuigan do not speak to any of the original members. Says it all I guess. I have just read reviews from The Guardian and The Independent that hail the book as a masterpiece in it's field! I'd rather listen to these qualified critics than GDForever who has a big fuck off hornet in her boonet. Although she is entitled to her opinion it pretty obvious that she has issues. You can almost see the anger dripping off the lines as she writes. I'm simply putting this down to some adolescent infatuation and hope that time will heal her. Can I also just thank the people that have bought the book. Your feedback has been wonderful and yes I might even release my own book! Here's to the people, The Lord Mayor of Manchester, BigUn. regards Bigun This is probably going to draw alot of critism, but Big Un get the FUCK off this forum. I can't stand this, listening to someone who probably won't be on this forum or participating only for the sole purpose of Tony. What I mean is that I think once all this dies down and people arent talking about Tony you're going to leave this forum. And most of the points that GDForever offer are valid points, so you can shut the fuck up about that. If she was defending the side of Tony, instead of Noel you'd love her. I hate people who are hypocrites and thats what you are. If you respected everyone's opinion like you said you do then you wouldnt have dress GDForever down. She stated her opinion and yes she may not be the Gaurdian or Independent, but you know what; she is a fan. And those magazines you mentioned aren't buying Tony's book, the fans are. She, just like every fan who states their opinion on here are just as important as any paper that you mention. Because in the end the fans write the history of band and the legacy of band. So to ridicule anyone or called them disturbed is just plain pathetic. She bought the book and she gave her opinion. She gave the "feedback" which you stated as "wonderful, from people who bought the book" And yeah, Noel might be a dick, but I dont think its fair to throw back every quote and everything he's done in his life and say this means he's a bad person. I know I would hate that. I've done and said enough bad things in my life that I'm pretty sure I've hurt people directly or indirectly and its pretty easy as with anyone in the world to stock pile bad moments. Everyone has things they would rather forget. Just like I bet Liam would rather forget telling Noel that his daughter was illegitimate or what all of Oasis said to Blur. You can take anyone's life (inlcuding yours) and find a thousand bad moments. Just like the one you just had with GDForver, which might have been just as offensive or crude as anything that Noel has said. (or Liam for that matter) So I can't wait for the Tony McCarroll stuff to die down so you can disappear as quickly as you came. Probably will be critisized a lot, but it just had to be said.
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Post by paranoidandroid on Oct 29, 2010 9:52:53 GMT -5
K+ for Spaneli!
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Oct 29, 2010 9:57:31 GMT -5
God, I love this forum.
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Post by spaneli on Oct 29, 2010 9:59:06 GMT -5
God, I love this forum. so true.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 29, 2010 10:13:16 GMT -5
Go Spaneli. gdforever, for me has done sterling work in analyzing the book
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bigun
Madferrit Fan
Seem to be lots of negativity and untruths flying around this forum. Noel would be proud.
Posts: 52
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Post by bigun on Oct 29, 2010 11:56:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry GDForever. It's just that ever since I have joined this forum you have jumped up and down on Tony. Just slinging one back your way. Everybody else is quite right about opinions and so forth and I respect yours.
And Sword, thanks for the mistakes. I'll make sure they get sorted in the next reprint!
Yours, BigUn, Son of a Gunslinger.
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Post by sword on Oct 29, 2010 12:11:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry GDForever. It's just that ever since I have joined this forum you have jumped up and down on Tony. Just slinging one back your way. Everybody else is quite right about opinions and so forth and I respect yours. And Sword, thanks for the mistakes. I'll make sure they get sorted in the next reprint! Yours, BigUn, Son of a Gunslinger. Keep your head up mate. Everyone is entitled to opinions. I'm sure most people on here respect yours. Oasis fans can be very forthcoming at times. There is usually a row on here every other week. Sorry for pointing out the mistakes. Sad bastard i know. All the best !
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