|
|
Post by start at the end on Mar 9, 2011 9:29:08 GMT -5
Ok, let's say DGSS, the LiamAndyGem contributions over the last 3 LP's and I suppose the industry in general overall to a smaller degree, have made me realize: not just anyone can crank out a plate-load of great songs.
I know, duh. But hear me out.
This isn't a bash Beady Eye thread, either. I'm a big fan and want/wanted them to do as well as anyone. But when it comes right down to it, I think the album on the whole is just fair.
The Beat Goes on is really the only truly GREAT song (I know many love TMS as well), there's 3 others that are ok, and the balance are just middling or terrible.
And you know what? I can't say that about ANY Noel-authored (or majorally-authored) LP.
What's the WORST example over 7 LP's? Heathen Chemistry?
What a laugh. Yeah, all THAT record contained was The Hindu Times, Stop Crying Your Heart Out, Little By Little, She is Love (like the lyrics or not, it's a solid tune), and always a favorite of my mine: Probably All in the Mind.
But even more glaring, I STILL listen to Noel's catalog 5, 10 , or even FIFTEEN years on.
I honestly cannot say ANY of these DGSS songs outside of TBGO or Millionaire has any kind of lasting power with me thus far.
To be more optimistic: we'll see I suppose.
But even if I DO get one or two off this album, what does that make between the THREE of them (LAG) over the last DECADE: 5-6 songs that still get play, here or there?
Pitiful, gang.
Perhaps I have a case of blindingly-biased Noelitis, but there's something about the fkn guys tunes that just piss all over 95% of what's going on elsewhere, overall. For christ sake the guy has a swimming pool of classics already.
And further: could we ever get a more glaring example of the disparity between the 4 within Oasis than DOYS?
I remember reading the EARLIEST reviews of it (before the vast majority knew who wrote what) and almost universally they ALL spoke of how the album did a nose dive during the last half/third.
What a shocker, who was responsible for those?
In fairness, DBTT was a BIT more balanced affair, but again, who had the top tunes? TIOBI, Lyla, POTQ, LTBL, (but I love Andy's TUTS too.)
To this day, for me, DOYS plays to "To Be Where's There's Life" 50% of the time and then it's an instant beer coaster.
Inordinately, it seems MANY here agree with me for a change, as someone's poll has already revealed that about HALF of those who responded (on the Beady Eye area, I might add) think that DGSS doesnt better ANY Oasis LP.
Just a case of strong nostalgia, or do we all just have to bow down more than ever to the Chief's utter genius?
Interested to hear opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by spaneli on Mar 9, 2011 9:39:11 GMT -5
^^In terms of DOYS, the guys strongest tracks were not chosen. Noel chose the tracks which best fit the album. The songwriting contribution by the 3 are pretty bad (other than IOT). But that comes from Noel not putting the best that they had. Having said that though, even the best song on this album (DGSS), if put on DOYS, would be considered a decent size drop off comparing them to Noel's stuff on there.
Its kinda unfair to compare the 3 to Noel. We all know that Noel is in a class of his own.
In terms of the album. The album is middle of the road. I haven't listened to it that much. There are only a couple of songs which keep making me come back and listen to them. But in the end, its an okay album with some good, some bad, some banal.
|
|
|
|
Post by start at the end on Mar 9, 2011 9:41:47 GMT -5
Ha ha, I KNOW it's "unfair", but it's still reality. I'm happy for some of the takeaways I and other people will get off DGSS, but it really makes me appreciate Noel's role in the band more than ever. For better or worse admittedly, at times.
|
|
|
|
Post by idledreamer on Mar 9, 2011 9:45:48 GMT -5
The Beat Goes on is really the only truly GREAT song (I know many love TMS as well), there's 3 others that are ok, and the balance are just middling or terrible. ^ now,, stop right there. because that's your opinion... i personally like the song BUT would put the roller, wigwam, the morning son and kill for a dream above it. (but then: that's MY opinion.) i think d.g.s.s. is a strong record overall (and a lot more consistant than d.o.y.s.) , but of course all of this stuff is totally subjective, and comes down to personal tastes/opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by start at the end on Mar 9, 2011 9:51:22 GMT -5
the fact that it's my opinion goes without saying, lol. It's "art", and therefore impossible to empirically prove anything's "great".
The majority of reviews (not just those currently linked on wikipedia or metacritic) put it middle of the road or worse. And in the next breath, a GOOD number of them single out TBGO as the LP's apex.
but I hear ya.
I like wigwam too, btw.
|
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Mar 9, 2011 9:53:39 GMT -5
I get what you are saying to an extent. I personally would rate it higher than HC overall. HOWEVER I don't know that the 5-6 best tunes on this record would beat out the 5-6 Noel tunes that appeared on the last 3 records. And the best 5-6 definitely wouldn't beat the best 5-6 off the first 4 albums.
That being said. I think LAG have more in them. I think that they can grow and learn from this record. You can see the potential I think. It just depends if they can develop it properly.
|
|
jesper
Madferrit Fan
Posts: 59 
|
Post by jesper on Mar 9, 2011 9:53:46 GMT -5
Agree. Andy is the only one with really strong tunes on DGSS. Liam should work harder finishing of his songs.
He's got a good ear for melodies, but his songs just seems so unfinished.
I still can't believe however that Noel put those crappy Gem Andy Liam songs on DOYS.. A Bell Will Ring and Keep The Dream Alive are favorites of mine on DBTT..
The thing Oasis could learn from Beady Eye is the positive vibe - thats the really strong thing about DGSS.
|
|
|
|
Post by idledreamer on Mar 9, 2011 9:57:00 GMT -5
Agree. Andy is the only one with really strong tunes on DGSS. Liam should work harder finishing of his songs. He's got a good ear for melodies, but his songs just seems so unfinished. funny thing, but everytime i listen to andy's 'the beat goes on' , i feel the same way... the way it sort of repeats the middle 8 again and then fades out, it kind of sounds --- unfinished. |
|
|
|
Post by start at the end on Mar 9, 2011 9:59:00 GMT -5
I get what you are saying to an extent. I personally would rate it higher than HC overall. HOWEVER I don't know that the 5-6 best tunes on this record would beat out the 5-6 Noel tunes that appeared on the last 3 records. And the best 5-6 definitely wouldn't beat the best 5-6 off the first 4 albums. That being said. I think LAG have more in them. I think that they can grow and learn from this record. You can see the potential I think. It just depends if they can develop it properly. For me the top 5 on DGSS don't even get within shitting distance of BIT, TT, WFTR, SOTL, or Falling Down off DOYS. The fact that I don't even have to go past the last 6 songs Noel put out says a boat-load in my case. |
|
|
|
Post by gdforever on Mar 9, 2011 10:08:10 GMT -5
I get what you are saying to an extent. I personally would rate it higher than HC overall. HOWEVER I don't know that the 5-6 best tunes on this record would beat out the 5-6 Noel tunes that appeared on the last 3 records. And the best 5-6 definitely wouldn't beat the best 5-6 off the first 4 albums. That being said. I think LAG have more in them. I think that they can grow and learn from this record. You can see the potential I think. It just depends if they can develop it properly. For me the top 5 on DGSS don't even get within shitting distance of BIT, TT, WFTR, SOTL, or Falling Down off DOYS. The fact that I don't even have to go past the last 6 songs Noel put out says a boat-load in my case. I'm with you...I was thinking more being unsure of Noel HC tunes when I said I was unsure. Because Noel's tunes (-HHL) off DOYS and his DBTT tunes would win by a landslide for me. But then comparing Noel at his least inspired to LAG at their most motivated probably isn't fair. I wasn't that thrilled with the album...but I am very interested in seeing where they go now. I can imagine them making a second record much better than the first. |
|
|
|
Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 9, 2011 10:10:01 GMT -5
Its a decent record for me, all provide stronger songs than they had recorded in Oasis. Its vastly superior to HC in my opinion but thats not hard considering what a low opinion I have of that and its a lot more consistant than DOYS.
|
|
|
|
Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Mar 9, 2011 10:21:00 GMT -5
i don't really see why people keep coming back to this topic. Noel Gallagher is musically gifted. he's written classic songs, he writes his own music, and has done so without any collaboration, that's genius. DGSS is what it is, a decent record from decent musicians.
|
|
|
|
Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 9, 2011 10:29:06 GMT -5
i don't really see why people keep coming back to this topic. Noel Gallagher is musically gifted. he's written classic songs, he writes his own music, and has done so without any collaboration, that's genius. DGSS is what it is, a decent record from decent musicians. True, although I don't see why collaborating would make songs great songs any less genius. See The Beatles. |
|
|
|
Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Mar 9, 2011 10:40:50 GMT -5
i don't really see why people keep coming back to this topic. Noel Gallagher is musically gifted. he's written classic songs, he writes his own music, and has done so without any collaboration, that's genius. DGSS is what it is, a decent record from decent musicians. True, although I don't see why collaborating would make songs great songs any less genius. See The Beatles. it's just impressive that one person wrote all material. the majority of Beatles great songs were Lennon/McCartney, the Rolling Stones, Jagger/Richards. Noel's in that seldom seen category of great single songwriter, and also great performer. along the lines of someone like a Kurt Cobain, another musical, self-collaborating genius. |
|
|
|
Post by start at the end on Mar 9, 2011 10:41:48 GMT -5
Well, I for one don't spend every waking minute of my life on this site (I know, gasp), so forgive me please if, after digesting the album for a couple of weeks, I share what stands out to me the most.
And with all the Noel Vs BDI horseshit that goes on throughout these boards...including a sizeable throng who both seemingly innately prefer BDI and anticipate a "better" lp, it seems obvious to me that hardly everyone patently acknowledges that Noel's a superior songsmith to the totality of LAG.
|
|
|
|
Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 9, 2011 10:47:05 GMT -5
True, although I don't see why collaborating would make songs great songs any less genius. See The Beatles. it's just impressive that one person wrote all material. the majority of Beatles great songs were Lennon/McCartney, the Rolling Stones, Jagger/Richards. Noel's in that seldom seen category of great single songwriter, and also great performer. along the lines of someone like a Kurt Cobain, another musical, self-collaborating genius. He certainly was once, I don't believe he is anymore while I still think he is very good. |
|
|
|
Post by Beady’s Here Now on Mar 9, 2011 10:56:48 GMT -5
For once, I agree with LIB.
Noel is a fantastic song writer. We all know this. And LAG's overall output will never be able to touch the majority of Noel's work. We all know this, too.
So frankly, I have no idea why this thread is in existence.
DGSS is a solid album, but lacking masterpieces. It's a nice surprise from LAG considering we got shit like TNOR, ABWR, BM, etc from them in the past. I don't think many on here expected DGSS to be as solid as it is when basing it off of LAG's previous material.
However, as stated, Noel is a genius and I don't think anyone (bar the 6 or so people who voted for TBGO over The Masterplan) would say LAG can write consistently as good as Noel.
It's become a cliche now, but it's true: Noel was the brains of Oasis, while Liam was the soul.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 10:59:36 GMT -5
I do take a bit of exception with the idea that Kurt Cobain is a musical genius. Personally, I don't feel he was the most gifted member of his band. Moving on . . .
Here are my two cents worth on this topic:
The art of picking up an instrument and creating a genuinely beautiful and inspiring song is something that VERY FEW can accomplish. Noel has been blessed with this ability. LAG on he other hand have not been blessed in this way. This is no more apparent then when you look at the catalogues and success of their work versus Oasis.
Rain, even Liam says they blew chunks.
Heavy Stereo, decent band but far from transcendent.
Hurricane #1, no one will mock you for enjoying their music, but it doesn't truly inspire
These are the types of projects that LAG have been apart of without Noel, and none of them have come up with the class of tunes that Noel has over the past 20 years. Even if we say that LAG are improving in songwriting ability, then they will need no less then ten decent albums before releasing anything classic. This has largely to do with society and their place in life, but it's most likely true.
I totally dig BDI, but I am not 'blinded by what I idolize' so much that I would call it classic, epic, or even great. It's a good listen, but thats where it ends for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnnyb on Mar 9, 2011 11:02:42 GMT -5
I completely agree with you start at the end, i really want to love the BDI album but i know when you try and force yourself to like / love something then its flawed from the start.
The hype of BDI has got me excited as usual about a Gallagher release but i found myself the other day making a rare Oasis (noel written b-side) compilation CD which to me already feels like a more exciting album to listen to, obviously just my opinion.
I love both the brothers, i like a few tracks from DGSS, and i do believe BDI's second album will be a vast improvement on an already decent record
|
|
|
|
Post by tomlivesforever on Mar 9, 2011 11:05:45 GMT -5
For once, I agree with LIB. And LAG's overall output will never be able to touch the majority of Noel's work. We all know this, too. We don't really know this as we don't know the future and yes while it is unlikely I think it could be possible based on what I heard on this record that they are capable of something better. So who knows? The beauty of the future, we don't know what will happen. |
|
|
|
Post by start at the end on Mar 9, 2011 11:15:32 GMT -5
For once, I agree with LIB. Noel is a fantastic song writer. We all know this. And LAG's overall output will never be able to touch the majority of Noel's work. We all know this, too. So frankly, I have no idea why this thread is in existence. DGSS is a solid album, but lacking masterpieces. It's a nice surprise from LAG considering we got shit like TNOR, ABWR, BM, etc from them in the past. I don't think many on here expected DGSS to be as solid as it is when basing it off of LAG's previous material. However, as stated, Noel is a genius and I don't think anyone (bar the 6 or so people who voted for TBGO over The Masterplan) would say LAG can write consistently as good as Noel. It's become a cliche now, but it's true: Noel was the brains of Oasis, while Liam was the soul. "So frankly, I have no idea why this thread is in existence." Frankly, that's so fucking utterly comical coming from a source such as yourself, that one has pinch it off to circumvent thy pissing of thy drawers. The point of the thread is readily obvious. If you choose to pass on it, pass. But please don't inundate it with your nonsensical drivel- n this case questioning the "existence" of anything, nevermind the point of this affirming thread that has blatantly simmered the interest/opinion of others. |
|
|
|
Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Mar 9, 2011 11:21:03 GMT -5
I do take a bit of exception with the idea that Kurt Cobain is a musical genius. Personally, I don't feel he was the most gifted member of his band. Moving on . . . Here are my two cents worth on this topic: The art of picking up an instrument and creating a genuinely beautiful and inspiring song is something that VERY FEW can accomplish. Noel has been blessed with this ability. LAG on he other hand have not been blessed in this way. This is no more apparent then when you look at the catalogues and success of their work versus Oasis. Rain, even Liam says they blew chunks. Heavy Stereo, decent band but far from transcendent. Hurricane #1, no one will mock you for enjoying their music, but it doesn't truly inspire These are the types of projects that LAG have been apart of without Noel, and none of them have come up with the class of tunes that Noel has over the past 20 years. Even if we say that LAG are improving in songwriting ability, then they will need no less then ten decent albums before releasing anything classic. This has largely to do with society and their place in life, but it's most likely true. I totally dig BDI, but I am not 'blinded by what I idolize' so much that I would call it classic, epic, or even great. It's a good listen, but thats where it ends for me. i'm sorry JitKenson, but there's a few things in life i draw the line at. one, i can't take anyone seriously that drinks diet coke, it's fucking disgusting. and i can't take anyone seriously who doesn't recognize Kurt's Cobain's genius. Dave Grohl's good, but no Kurt Cobain. i hope this doesn't affect our forum friendship, i still love you. |
|
|
|
Post by masterplan2011 on Mar 9, 2011 11:24:51 GMT -5
I think writing songs should be a personal thing but the one thing that DGSS made me think is why didn't Oasis collaborate more and gel their ideas together. I feel the jury is still out on Gem's songwriting but Andy and Liam definitely showed they are good songwriters . I already thought Liam was a decent songwriter as seen in IOT but DGGS really made me realise how good Andy could be. Like many of you I can see Oasis coming back together in a few years and I would really hope that they work together more. I agree most of Liam's songs seem unfinished so why doesn't Noel help him put the finishing touches on them. I couldn't help but think listening to DGSS that some of the songs could have been massive if Noel had got his hands on them. It seems to me during Oasis, they brought they're ideas to Noel he picked out the ones he liked/ maybe the shit ones? Then let the fans see again that he is in a class above LAG. If they adopt a more democratic system as Beady Eye keep banging on about, I think they could make one of the best ever Oasis albums.
|
|
|
|
Post by start at the end on Mar 9, 2011 11:26:55 GMT -5
OH, not to pile on and drag OT, but I too will take my friend Dave over my friend Kurt. Little do many know that both his debut and the colour and the shape were all-but finished before he spent a day in the "N-word", with the latter STILL resting in my top 5 ROCK records of all time.
He has gone on to author American rock singles that have defined the genre/era and I'm always stunned by how many friends and the like of mine also recognize his genius.
Oh what could have been down the road for the N-word...although difficult to say if Kurt would've ever given up the reins...even partially. Implosion or explosion, I'm afraid.
Back to the topic, sorry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Officer Jim Kurring on Mar 9, 2011 11:31:32 GMT -5
OH, not to pile on and drag OT, but I too will take my friend Dave over my friend Kurt. Little do many know that the colour and the shape was all but finished before he spent a day in the "N-word". And the colour and the shape is STILL in my top 5 ROCK records of all time. He has gone on to author American rock singles that have defined the genre/era and I'm always stunned by how many friends and the like of mine also recognize his genius. Oh what could have been down the road for the N-word...although difficult to say if Kurt would've ever given up the reins...even partially. Implosion or explosion, I'm afraid. Back to the topic, sorry. Dave Grohl is highly talented, and a genius. but Kurt Cobain changed musical landscapes, and changed popular culture. yes, that's a cliche statement, but true. and for Christ sake, you have Keane in your signature. what the fuck? |
|
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5