it was over before the fourth goal, good to see Arsenal go down....not that I really care all that much in the first place

Headshrinker, I agree AW needs to put his hand in his pocket. Let's not be in a rush to throw the baby out with the bathwater though.

Rosicky, while talented, is not good enough - he's not what we need. He doesn't score. We need a Pires. A Overmars. A Ronaldo. A Joe Cole. We need an electric winger with pace and finishing ability - both of which Super Tom lacks.

This "Third Wenger Team" is def the weakest.

1997/98-2001/2002: Adams, Seaman, Vieira, Petit, Overmars, Bergkamp, Henry

2002/2003-2005/2006: Henry, Vieira, Campbell, Pires, Ljungberg, Cole, Gilberto even

2006/2007-Present: Fabregas.....that's it really.....
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To make it more explicit:

GK: Seaman vs. Lehmann/Almunia --> Seaman

DL: Cole vs. Clichy --> Cole (when he was with us)
DC: Senderos/Gallas vs. Adams/Campbell --> Adams and Campbell
DR: Lauren vs. Sagna --> EITHER

ML: Pires/Overmars vs. Rosicky --> Pires/Overmars
MC: Vieira vs. Flamini --> Vieira
MR: Ljungberg vs. Eboue/Hleb --> Ljungberg

Strikers: Ade vs. Henry --> Henry

We have a great first 11. The problem is that that's pretty much all we have. We do not have the strength in depth of United, who have quality everywhere and on the bench.

It's hard to fight when you are knackered. You can't say this Arsenal team don't have fight (2-0 down to 3-2 up at Bolton), but the squad is too small. Man Utd have ridiculous strength in depth. We have a centre-half playing at right back, a striker playing left-mid, etc. It says it all about the kids, really (Hoyte, Traore etc) - if they were good enough they would be playing, and we wouldn't have a load of out-of-position, utterly knackered first-teamers.

We were great for 80% of this season, and considering how no one thought we would even be up there and would end up 5th it has to be considered an improvement. I do think Wenger needs to spend though. The squad is too small to cope effectively with injuries, and that is undeniable. When people say "oh well, who knew Eduardo, RVP and Rosicky would all be injured together?" I get annoyed. Fair enough on Eduardo, but Rosicky seemingly needs a full lower-body transplant and Van Persie has been injured for basically 3 seasons. Someone needs to face up to the fact that you cannot rely on those players. The worry that is that Wenger is not buying purely on principle - which is a dangerous game. Fair enough when we were switching grounds and there was no money, but now there is. We don't need wholesale reinvention, but what is there needs to be augmented with dosh. A Torres or Ronaldo would be nice as well.

Carping on about Pires, Viera etc gets us nowhere though. There is quality in this team and it does not need the whole thing tearing down to the foundations. However those foundations do need to be built upon.

I agree, our first team is good. Never said it wasn't. We had an amazing season, until March, which shows that we're a few players and one leader shorter of success.

But I still hold the believe that the previous 2 teams/eras under AW were better.

Maybe it's just too early yet. Maybe Flamini will indeed prove to be as good as Vieira (different players, of course, but still). Maybe ADE will show this season isn't a fluke, and while I'm sure he'll keep frustrating us with wasted chances, constant offsides, and poor touches, as long as he consistently gets 15-20 goals, then he's a class striker. Maybe RVP will have an injury free season, and establish himself as a world class player, something that's on the fringe of right now.

But as we stand now, I repeat: I see no exceptional wingers like Overmars or Pires. I see no real leader like Tony Adams or Patrick Vieira. I see no stable GK like David Seaman (of course, DS is a one in a million GK). You get my point