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Post by sheisloved on Jan 19, 2024 6:22:44 GMT -5
Yeah they lost their identity in the 2000s, merely aping single acts in one song. Production wise too, it was all watered down dull stuff. If you're not going to do anything interesting with guitars, just turn them all back up to 11 and have loads of reverb. Shock of the Lightning was one of the closest tunes to getting back to that old wall of sound, good effort if not quite there. That's being harsh on The Importance Of Being Idle and Mucky Fingers, which are the highlights of DBTT. I wish Noel went all the way and just released all his demos as DBTT. Lord dont slow me down, STC, RM and probably some other... the rest is pretty low quality compared to those two songs. Sure they remind us of those bands, but as noel did in the past, he made those style his own. I dont hear Lou Reed on Mucky Fingers (which is more dylan to me with a Velvety guitar) or the Kinks on The Importance Of Being Idle. I hear a mix of influences, that's quite logical in an era where basically all style of music has been invented. the question is: did the artist manage to add something, and the answer is yes. Shock of the Lightning to me is way way more formulaic than those two. Not a fan of Mucky Fingers. The "it's all right" part + the repetitive guitar. I find it a bit annoying. To me they should have spent a bit more time on "keep the dream alive". That is the most soaring early Oasis-esque tune on that album. It definitely should have a been a single. The opening lyrics just needed some love and something a bit more meaningful..but it showed me that they could still make a song with brushes of that Early Oasis sound. I actually enjoyed that albums sound much more than dig out your soul. |
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Post by andymorris on Jan 19, 2024 6:47:00 GMT -5
That's being harsh on The Importance Of Being Idle and Mucky Fingers, which are the highlights of DBTT. I wish Noel went all the way and just released all his demos as DBTT. Lord dont slow me down, STC, RM and probably some other... the rest is pretty low quality compared to those two songs. Sure they remind us of those bands, but as noel did in the past, he made those style his own. I dont hear Lou Reed on Mucky Fingers (which is more dylan to me with a Velvety guitar) or the Kinks on The Importance Of Being Idle. I hear a mix of influences, that's quite logical in an era where basically all style of music has been invented. the question is: did the artist manage to add something, and the answer is yes. Shock of the Lightning to me is way way more formulaic than those two. Not a fan of Mucky Fingers. The "it's all right" part + the repetitive guitar. I find it a bit annoying. To me they should have spent a bit more time on "keep the dream alive". That is the most soaring early Oasis-esque tune on that album. It definitely should have a been a single. The opening lyrics just needed some love and something a bit more meaningful..but it showed me that they could still make a song with brushes of that Early Oasis sound. I actually enjoyed that albums sound much more than dig out your soul. Urgh Keep the Dream Alive is Beady Eye announced 7 years prior. Its very bland. same goes for a Bell will ring. But i understand why people would dislike Mucky Fingers. Its not classic Oasis, it doesn't have an obvious melody and no Liam (by the way no one has done this one AI style). But I love it. |
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Post by tiger40 on Jan 19, 2024 13:12:25 GMT -5
I wonder what the new single will be called. "Yet Another Meteorological Phenomenon" Let's hope not. |
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Post by liamseyebrow on Jan 19, 2024 15:10:07 GMT -5
Don't buy this, personally. Agreed that the melody on Just Another Rainbow is weak, but he's got some brilliant melodies from his solo career. I'm scpetical of Squire being Liam's songwriter, but Wyatt, Kurstin and Aldred have done a great job for Liam so far. I hope he goes back to them once the Squire experiment is done. I totally agree with you and Wyatt, Kurstin and Alred are better song writers than Squire. john wrote the music and most of the words for one of the best albums of all time plus fools gold, love spreads, ten storey love song, tightrope, breaking into heaven, love is the law and countless other songs that are still culturally and sonically relevant and amazing, what have these guys wrote? |
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yogurt
Oasis Roadie
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Post by yogurt on Jan 19, 2024 15:16:16 GMT -5
I totally agree with you and Wyatt, Kurstin and Alred are better song writers than Squire. john wrote the music and most of the words for one of the best albums of all time plus fools gold, love spreads, ten storey love song, tightrope, breaking into heaven, love is the law and countless other songs that are still culturally and sonically relevant and amazing, what have these guys wrote? By all accounts Ian Brown wrote almost all the lyrics in the Roses, hence why his solo lyrics are far better than anything Squire wrote after he left. Brown come up with most of the vocal melodies too. Him and Squire actually come up with some vocal melodies on a cheap little keyboard apparently But I still agree with your point. Squire co-wrote plenty of songs that are still considered classics a few decades later, in the UK at least, along with iconic guitar riffs etc. |
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Post by PepsiNebula on Jan 19, 2024 15:24:45 GMT -5
I'm perpetually amazed that Wyatt has worked so heavily with Liam, wrote Miike Snow's absolute banger Gengis Khan, AND wrote and produced most of the Barbie soundtrack and score. I'm Just Ken should win an Oscar if there's any justice. Talk about range.
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Post by liamseyebrow on Jan 19, 2024 15:25:40 GMT -5
john wrote the music and most of the words for one of the best albums of all time plus fools gold, love spreads, ten storey love song, tightrope, breaking into heaven, love is the law and countless other songs that are still culturally and sonically relevant and amazing, what have these guys wrote? By all accounts Ian Brown wrote almost all the lyrics in the Roses, hence why his solo lyrics are far better than anything Squire wrote after he left. Brown come up with most of the vocal melodies too. Him and Squire actually come up with some vocal melodies on a cheap little keyboard apparently But I still agree with your point. Squire co-wrote plenty of songs that are still considered classics a few decades later, in the UK at least, along with iconic guitar riffs etc. john wrote all the lyrics on the 2nd album bar begging you, daybreak and straight to the man, id say ian wrote adored, resurrection and fools gold words, johns more imagery like waterfall and ians more statements like a rapper. |
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Post by andymorris on Jan 20, 2024 1:56:46 GMT -5
I'm perpetually amazed that Wyatt has worked so heavily with Liam, wrote Miike Snow's absolute banger Gengis Khan, AND wrote and produced most of the Barbie soundtrack and score. I'm Just Ken should win an Oscar if there's any justice. Talk about range. In a parallel universe Andrew Wyatt could have been a great songwriter in a great band. the problem is that he is a songwriter for hire and the songs reflects that. Are they perfect ? Yes. Are they rock n roll, do they have substance, soul ? No... There's countless of perfectly crafted tune in the pop world, if you strip them on piano or acoustic guitar. But they sound like something robotic. There's not that "magic", that little imperfection that makes rock n roll or indie music much more interesting. A twist that doesn't follow the songwriting book. Squire may not have that level of music knowledge in melodies (that's debatable), but his work has soul. Its him, its not Wyatt writing as Ken. That's the difference. One is himself, the other one pretends. |
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Post by GlastoEls on Jan 20, 2024 3:11:52 GMT -5
I'm perpetually amazed that Wyatt has worked so heavily with Liam, wrote Miike Snow's absolute banger Gengis Khan, AND wrote and produced most of the Barbie soundtrack and score. I'm Just Ken should win an Oscar if there's any justice. Talk about range. In a parallel universe Andrew Wyatt could have been a great songwriter in a great band. the problem is that he is a songwriter for hire and the songs reflects that. Are they perfect ? Yes. Are they rock n roll, do they have substance, soul ? No... There's countless of perfectly crafted tune in the pop world, if you strip them on piano or acoustic guitar. But they sound like something robotic. There's not that "magic", that little imperfection that makes rock n roll or indie music much more interesting. A twist that doesn't follow the songwriting book. Squire may not have that level of music knowledge in melodies (that's debatable), but his work has soul. Its him, its not Wyatt writing as Ken. That's the difference. One is himself, the other one pretends. I fundamentally disagree with your key premise, but well written post as usual, Andy! Something like “Chinatown” gets me in the feels as it’s Liam’s interpretation I’m interested in - and he’s the master of it. How the song came to life doesn’t impact me in the slightest as I take the movie approach - film writers are guns for hire, but if the movie is good, who cares if the bloke who wrote it was paid? They can still deeply care about the work. Beyond that - I think your descriptions “rock & roll”, “soulless” are just too nebulous to have particular meaning. It’s the end result wot matters. Now if you don’t like the poppier sheen, no worries at all, but I’m on the opposite page on their worth. |
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Post by andymorris on Jan 20, 2024 5:47:26 GMT -5
In a parallel universe Andrew Wyatt could have been a great songwriter in a great band. the problem is that he is a songwriter for hire and the songs reflects that. Are they perfect ? Yes. Are they rock n roll, do they have substance, soul ? No... There's countless of perfectly crafted tune in the pop world, if you strip them on piano or acoustic guitar. But they sound like something robotic. There's not that "magic", that little imperfection that makes rock n roll or indie music much more interesting. A twist that doesn't follow the songwriting book. Squire may not have that level of music knowledge in melodies (that's debatable), but his work has soul. Its him, its not Wyatt writing as Ken. That's the difference. One is himself, the other one pretends. I fundamentally disagree with your key premise, but well written post as usual, Andy! Something like “Chinatown” gets me in the feels as it’s Liam’s interpretation I’m interested in - and he’s the master of it. How the song came to life doesn’t impact me in the slightest as I take the movie approach - film writers are guns for hire, but if the movie is good, who cares if the bloke who wrote it was paid? They can still deeply care about the work. Beyond that - I think your descriptions “rock & roll”, “soulless” are just too nebulous to have particular meaning. It’s the end result wot matters. Now if you don’t like the poppier sheen, no worries at all, but I’m on the opposite page on their worth. Yeah that's exactly how our view differs (or we agree to some extent) : Pop music is like movies, i can enjoy a good movie, i can enjoy a good pop song. But its never gonna be life changing like music writing by the guy's who's playing it was / is to me. Music written by the people on the record is the ultimate art. I never had a "life changing" movie (although Into the Wild came close). I had many, many "life changing" records. And It's something else to go onstage every night to play your songs. When the guy who wrote them isn't there, it kinda lose its energy, its passion (See : Beady Eye, Or Oasis without Noel). There are a lot of great songwriters turned hired guns, though. Because they couldnt make a living with their own career. The biggest example for me his Ed Harcourt. His records are something else. Huge, huge records. And then he turned to writing for other people because that paid better. And the passion, the life-changing level just isn't there. Because he has a a strict manual in front of him on how the song has to go. |
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yogurt
Oasis Roadie
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Post by yogurt on Jan 20, 2024 6:02:59 GMT -5
I fundamentally disagree with your key premise, but well written post as usual, Andy! Something like “Chinatown” gets me in the feels as it’s Liam’s interpretation I’m interested in - and he’s the master of it. How the song came to life doesn’t impact me in the slightest as I take the movie approach - film writers are guns for hire, but if the movie is good, who cares if the bloke who wrote it was paid? They can still deeply care about the work. Beyond that - I think your descriptions “rock & roll”, “soulless” are just too nebulous to have particular meaning. It’s the end result wot matters. Now if you don’t like the poppier sheen, no worries at all, but I’m on the opposite page on their worth. Yeah that's exactly how our view differs (or we agree to some extent) : Pop music is like movies, i can enjoy a good movie, i can enjoy a good pop song. But its never gonna be life changing like music writing by the guy's who's playing it was / is to me. Music written by the people on the record is the ultimate art. I never had a "life changing" movie (although Into the Wild came close). I had many, many "life changing" records. And It's something else to go onstage every night to play your songs. When the guy who wrote them isn't there, it kinda lose its energy, its passion (See : Beady Eye, Or Oasis without Noel). There are a lot of great songwriters turned hired guns, though. Because they couldnt make a living with their own career. The biggest example for me his Ed Harcourt. His records are something else. Huge, huge records. And then he turned to writing for other people because that paid better. And the passion, the life-changing level just isn't there. Because he has a a strict manual in front of him on how the song has to go. I get that to a degree but ultimately it depends on the performer too. Take Elvis, whether you're a fan or not, when you look at his big life performances, they're completely full of passion and energy. Did anyone care if the writer of Suspicious Minds wasn't on stage at that point? I think the truth is a great performer will always take longs to the highest level it can be performed, whether they wrote it or not. Just like the best actors make you see the character and not the actor. Of course there will be times where it completely matters too, especially band situations where they try to replace the writer and singer after they left. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 20, 2024 9:24:30 GMT -5
So hopefully a BIG week coming up. New single and I would assume album announcement plus pre-orders. Maybe even a gig or two announced. They gotta do something. April will be here before you know it. It is the Gallagher brother style to bank months of pre-sales.
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jan 20, 2024 9:34:54 GMT -5
So hopefully a BIG week coming up. New single and I would assume album announcement plus pre-orders. Maybe even a gig or two announced. They gotta do something. April will be here before you know it. It is the Gallagher brother style to bank months of pre-sales. I think the album is going to be out early April. |
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Post by matt on Jan 20, 2024 9:59:32 GMT -5
Songwriters for hire aren't perfect, but I like GlastoEls movie analogy. I think its similar for music, a song written with somebody in mind and like an actor or director, they take ownership of it of the material provided. That's the same with Wyatt, as it is for John Squire. Maybe the latter has more common reference points and musical influences for Liam, but it's only by familiarity that these things feel 'right', the opposing argument to that is its too narrow minded and safe. Wyatt and co do a better job than Beady Eye where the songs were safe in their influences but atrocious, and even better than the half assed efforts of latter Oasis. I probably agree its not as rock as we'd like (I'd love to hear a really aggressive punky album from Liam), but so much of Liam's careers has emphasised the pop side of things just as much. Obviously there's not going to be the soulful connection Liam has with Noel's songs, where familial ties and a shared upbringing delivers something of more emotive impact with great conviction. Even then, you could say those ties were waning when both became rich and famous and Noel's songs stopped being about life in a northern town with escapist fantasies. |
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Post by sheisloved on Jan 20, 2024 10:21:49 GMT -5
So hopefully a BIG week coming up. New single and I would assume album announcement plus pre-orders. Maybe even a gig or two announced. They gotta do something. April will be here before you know it. It is the Gallagher brother style to bank months of pre-sales. Wanted everyone's opinion on this. Do you think typically the 2nd single is considered the best on the album. Or do you expect the single right before the release to be considered by the record label to be the best? I'm just thinking back to when Liam quickly released Chinatown as a quick filler and that wasnt anything too special... I would assume they would release a solid tune 2nd to keep momentum going.. Thoughts? |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 20, 2024 10:34:27 GMT -5
So hopefully a BIG week coming up. New single and I would assume album announcement plus pre-orders. Maybe even a gig or two announced. They gotta do something. April will be here before you know it. It is the Gallagher brother style to bank months of pre-sales. Wanted everyone's opinion on this. Do you think typically the 2nd single is considered the best on the album. Or do you expect the single right before the release to be considered by the record label to be the best? I'm just thinking back to when Liam quickly released Chinatown as a quick filler and that wasnt anything too special... I would assume they would release a solid tune 2nd to keep momentum going.. Thoughts? I think it varies on what single is the "strongest". I figure we will get 2 more singles before the album arrives. Next week we get one to announce the album. Then in March we get the final single before the April album drop. |
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Post by Supersonic on Jan 20, 2024 12:08:56 GMT -5
Lost the plot.
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Post by tiger40 on Jan 20, 2024 13:01:25 GMT -5
In a parallel universe Andrew Wyatt could have been a great songwriter in a great band. the problem is that he is a songwriter for hire and the songs reflects that. Are they perfect ? Yes. Are they rock n roll, do they have substance, soul ? No... There's countless of perfectly crafted tune in the pop world, if you strip them on piano or acoustic guitar. But they sound like something robotic. There's not that "magic", that little imperfection that makes rock n roll or indie music much more interesting. A twist that doesn't follow the songwriting book. Squire may not have that level of music knowledge in melodies (that's debatable), but his work has soul. Its him, its not Wyatt writing as Ken. That's the difference. One is himself, the other one pretends. I fundamentally disagree with your key premise, but well written post as usual, Andy! Something like “Chinatown” gets me in the feels as it’s Liam’s interpretation I’m interested in - and he’s the master of it. How the song came to life doesn’t impact me in the slightest as I take the movie approach - film writers are guns for hire, but if the movie is good, who cares if the bloke who wrote it was paid? They can still deeply care about the work. Beyond that - I think your descriptions “rock & roll”, “soulless” are just too nebulous to have particular meaning. It’s the end result wot matters. Now if you don’t like the poppier sheen, no worries at all, but I’m on the opposite page on their worth. Agreed and the poppier root seems to have worked well for Liam. |
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Post by sheisloved on Jan 20, 2024 15:45:16 GMT -5
Wanted everyone's opinion on this. Do you think typically the 2nd single is considered the best on the album. Or do you expect the single right before the release to be considered by the record label to be the best? I'm just thinking back to when Liam quickly released Chinatown as a quick filler and that wasnt anything too special... I would assume they would release a solid tune 2nd to keep momentum going.. Thoughts? I think it varies on what single is the "strongest". I figure we will get 2 more singles before the album arrives. Next week we get one to announce the album. Then in March we get the final single before the April album drop. I guess nowadays alot of artists come right out the gate with their strongest. Oasis didn't do that in the 90s.. they just came out with a cracker to get the ball rolling |
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Post by The-Ghost-Dancer on Jan 20, 2024 17:24:38 GMT -5
stretching the theories really thin in this video, i have to admit i do enjoy this guys content but some of it is so far out there he's clutching at straws,, and in my opinion Ian Brown is lightyears ahead of John Squire when it comes to songwriting and lyrics the guy made 7 studio albums and every single one of them is different. To this day they all sound ahead of their time and have aged like fine wine the mans a genius just a shame he's a bit of a crackpot with his conspiracy theories |
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Post by madferitusa2025 on Jan 20, 2024 17:44:07 GMT -5
Really keep coming back to this toon. The rainbow recitation is less painful for me than 4 bars of Once, Once, Once, Once. A 1:45 solo...very nice. High hopes for the balance of the record.
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Post by sheisloved on Jan 20, 2024 18:39:43 GMT -5
Really keep coming back to this toon. The rainbow recitation is less painful for me than 4 bars of Once, Once, Once, Once. A 1:45 solo...very nice. High hopes for the balance of the record. It doesn't bother me much either |
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Post by Lustforlife on Jan 20, 2024 21:14:34 GMT -5
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Post by sheisloved on Jan 21, 2024 0:45:46 GMT -5
Wonder if he got asked if he likes the new song |
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Post by themanwithnoname on Jan 21, 2024 4:34:30 GMT -5
I think Oasis deserved the Beatles rip off tag in the 2000s when many of their songs around then embarrassingly aped the Fab Four, but at the same time, so many journalists make the most tenuous links like it does here. I even read a review of Be Here Now that referenced Stand By Me being influenced by The Beatles because even though there is the massive Ben E King hit of the same name, the reviewer assumed they got that from the same song on account of John Lennon covering it. Some mental gymnastics going on there. Talking about the 2000s. What bothered me a lot about mid 2000s oasis recordings is I think it was lazy production in the sense if you had a song like The Importance Of Being Idle, clearly a Kinks influenced song, or Mucky Fingers, clearly a Velvet Underground influence, but they even made the production and instrumentation choices pretty much sound like those bands. In the 90s, you can say Cigarettes and Alcohol is T-Rex and other examples, but production wise it was nothing like T-Rex, it was very much Oasis and Owen Morris in the production style and mix, rather than chase the sound of the song its influenced by. Anyway I'm getting off the thread topic here. It's just one of the things that never sat right with the later albums, I think a lot of identity was lost and some songs bordered on pastiche more than just influence. This 💯. Oasis lost their identity in that period - and while there were still some good songs it didn’t feel like it was authentically Oasis in some way. It was all a bit weird. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5