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Post by glider on May 19, 2021 0:26:44 GMT -5
Since we're talking about HC I'll once again post what I did in the HC thread. Heathen Chemistry would've been a terrific EP: 1. The Hindu Times2. Little By Little 3. Stop Crying Your Heart Out 4. Songbird 5. Shout It Out Loud A nicely arranged 20 minute package containing a couple of rockers, a wistful ballad, and two instrospective post-Britpop pieces to commemorate over a decade of the band's existence. Retool and refresh for a stronger LP5 in the mid aughts. The recording of this never sat right for me. Sounds way too compressed. No space for the instruments or supportive music. Kermit Liam debut. Minus SCYHO, Liam sounds abysmal on HC period. Took two more albums until he had a full record he sounded solid on. |
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Post by Gas Panic on May 19, 2021 6:13:22 GMT -5
Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. Fun Fact: The original 2002 release in Brazil omitted Better Man and has BOADC as the closing track. And the album is all the better for it! |
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Post by Lennon2217 on May 19, 2021 7:36:44 GMT -5
Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. Fun Fact: The original 2002 release in Brazil omitted Better Man and has BOADC as the closing track. And the album is all the better for it! That is interesting! |
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Post by Manualex on May 19, 2021 10:00:25 GMT -5
Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. Fun Fact: The original 2002 release in Brazil omitted Better Man and has BOADC as the closing track. And the album is all the better for it! But is Better man on the booklet? Or omitted and had just BOADC as the intended last track? |
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Post by vespa on May 19, 2021 12:44:23 GMT -5
Heathen chemistry tracks are better live , liams songs are great . Was a great era for the band and summer album , brilliant times , needed producing better that was all
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Post by Gas Panic on May 19, 2021 16:03:18 GMT -5
Fun Fact: The original 2002 release in Brazil omitted Better Man and has BOADC as the closing track. And the album is all the better for it! But is Better man on the booklet? Or omitted and had just BOADC as the intended last track? I've just checked, Better Man is omitted from the tracklisting on both the case and in the CD booklet, however it does appear on the CD itself. So essentially Better Man is a hidden track on the Brazilian CD, followed by another hidden track in The Cage! |
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 19, 2021 17:12:18 GMT -5
Holy Mountain is so incredibly divisive that nearly half the thread is now about Heathen Chemistry!  |
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Post by electricsunday on May 20, 2021 20:58:20 GMT -5
I remember reading the title before hearing the song and expecting it to be this Verve and possibly Radiohead inspired opus with a slow tempo and dark introspective lyrics. LOL.
It's just too in your face for me. I don't understand the comparison to any Oasis song you want to name. He didn't have Liam frantically shout "ROUND ARE WAY! ROUND ARE WAY! ROUND ARE WAY! HAHAHAHA!" I'm sure that would have been funny but I wouldn't have liked the song as much.
And the accusations right when it came out from people who liked the song at those who just didn't ... I'm all for Noel going in completely new directions and I loved the rest of the album but it was like if you didn't think this *one particular song* pissed all over everything he's done since Live Forever that meant you were too conservative and didn't like Bowie or Prince and you were stuck in 1995 and it's so sad. Jesus.
It's a 5/10 for me now. I can listen to it in the background. I'm glad so many people love it but I probably never will.
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Post by PepsiNebula on May 21, 2021 11:47:20 GMT -5
Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. It's because I rarely make it that far on the album, and when I do, AATW has already destroyed my spirit, so I don't have the energy to respond to any songs after it.
I don't get the hate for AGN, though. At worst, it is in fact a nothing song. Not enough there to even get worked up about, in my opinion.
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Post by The Escapist on May 21, 2021 16:23:39 GMT -5
Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. It's because I rarely make it that far on the album, and when I do, AATW has already destroyed my spirit, so I don't have the energy to respond to any songs after it.
I don't get the hate for AGN, though. At worst, it is in fact a nothing song. Not enough there to even get worked up about, in my opinion.
Not It's Gettin' Better (Man!!) - that's a mishandled classic! I mean the Better Man from Heathen Chemistry. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on May 22, 2021 2:47:45 GMT -5
Tom Hanks loves Holy Mountain and that warms the heart.
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Post by Lennon2217 on May 22, 2021 2:51:56 GMT -5
That makes no sense. How does one prove it becomes the predominant opinion? Load of hipster bullsh*t. It’s not like ‘Holy Mountain’ is a ‘Revolution #9’ or something where you either ‘get it’ or ‘don’t get it’, it’s just a straight forward pop song. If it was a really great pop song we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Have you ever seen a thread like this for a song like ‘Live Forever’? My area of criticism is film. And this is a pretty common phenomenon in that medium. 30 years ago, the prevailing opinion was that Spielberg’s HOOK — a film no one would have called revolutionary at the time or even now — was bang on terrible. However, that film did have a dedicated group of fans. 30 years later, the opinion of those dedicated group of fans became the dominant opinion: HOOK was actually a really good, fun Spielberg film that was unfairly maligned at the time for reasons that had little to do with the film itself. So it’s not hipster bullsh*t. That’s verifiably how art ages. My brother and I fucking love Hook. I still remember renting it from Blockbuster in 1992. So much fun. Loved the new spin on Peter Pan. No Internet back then or place for people to bitch. All we knew was we liked it and so did our friends. |
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Post by mossy on May 22, 2021 5:01:09 GMT -5
Did he ever explain why he called it Holy Mountain?
I assume they just had the film playing in the background in the studio or something?
X
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 22, 2021 13:19:23 GMT -5
Did he ever explain why he called it Holy Mountain? I assume they just had the film playing in the background in the studio or something? X Ha, not really the kind of film you have on in the background! It had a deep Beatles connection for one thing... John Lennon helped finance it and George Harrison was supposed to play a role (but refused to appear nude and Jodorowsky was flabbergasted and hired a young Mexican actor instead ... always legendary to have a good nude story.) But though I've seen enough articles say that Noel was inspired by the film that it seems it must have come from him at some point (or was in publicity material sent around at the time), I've never seen any source material with Noel speaking directly about the film. If anybody has, I'd love to see it. The only thing I have seen is Gareth Halliday talking about how Jodorowsky inspired the art, which I can definitely see. I suppose Noel might have seen the song as a sardonic psychedelic departure, as the film was, though your mileage may vary on that. |
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Post by mossy on May 22, 2021 17:22:38 GMT -5
Did he ever explain why he called it Holy Mountain? I assume they just had the film playing in the background in the studio or something? X Ha, not really the kind of film you have on in the background! It’s really visual, I think it’d be perfect background visuals for when you’re working on something psychedelic in the studio. I always thought The Psychedelic Shotguns would make a great band name. X |
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Post by girllikeabomb on May 22, 2021 17:32:33 GMT -5
Ha, not really the kind of film you have on in the background! It’s really visual, I think it’d be perfect background visuals for when you’re working on something psychedelic in the studio. I always thought The Psychedelic Shotguns would make a great band name. X Yeah, I find it overwhelming visually and psychically, so can't imagine it as wallpaper, but I guess maybe as an atmosphere setter. Psychedelic Shotguns is a great band name. Would have been shocking if it hadn't been done, but seems it has ... www.facebook.com/the-Psychedelic-Shotguns-16753947117/ |
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Post by thespiderandthefly on May 25, 2021 12:23:07 GMT -5
Love playing this one on the acoustic. All about fretting that high E string across the G, D, and C chords to match the flute melody. Another one that just defies belief on how Noel can take three simple chords and make something beautiful out of it. The post-chorus bridge (“get out of the doldrums..”) is so refreshing a melody coming out of the chorus.
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Post by underneaththesky on May 25, 2021 13:04:59 GMT -5
as bad as Roll With It... which makes it good (and not)
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Post by tiger40 on May 25, 2021 13:33:00 GMT -5
Roll With It isn't Oasis's best but I certainly don't think that it's as bad as Holy Mountain even though I don't hate either song. Anyway, it's a bit unfair to compair them as they're both completely different songs.
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cosmos
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 376
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Post by cosmos on May 26, 2021 3:54:07 GMT -5
Did he ever explain why he called it Holy Mountain? I assume they just had the film playing in the background in the studio or something? X It was Noel trying to prove he watches avant garde films. In the end, its just him having "cool" song titles for silly songs. Holy Mountain is the perfect reflection of Noel's main problem over the last few years: he tries way too much to show he can make artistic statements only to fail miserably, like when he said CY was cosmic jazz just because he included some sax solos in a couple of tracks or the scissors thing and all that. Even his recent attempt at making "dance music" is cringe worthy, all those songs, like HM, sound so dated. Besides, he had already done that with the Chemical Bros in the late 90s. I think that Noel might be undergoing some sort of anxiety about not fitting in with artists such as D. Albarn and T. Yorke at the level of their artistic ambition and capacities. Or maybe he is simply out of artistic direction. In any case, he doesn't know how to channel this need for experimentation. Listening to David Bowie's lost demos or sampling tracks from a 1970s Vietnamese punk film just leads him to do things that appear too forced, unoriginal and, paradoxically, boring. |
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Post by defmaybe00 on May 26, 2021 4:03:00 GMT -5
Did he ever explain why he called it Holy Mountain? I assume they just had the film playing in the background in the studio or something? X It was Noel trying to prove he watches avant garde films. In the end, its just him having "cool" song titles for silly songs. Holy Mountain is the perfect reflection of Noel's main problem over the last few years: he tries way too much to show he can make artistic statements only to fail miserably, like when he said CY was cosmic jazz just because he included some sax solos in a couple of tracks or the scissors thing and all that. Even his recent attempt at making "dance music" is cringe worthy, all those songs, like HM, sound so dated. Besides, he had already done that with the Chemical Bros in the late 90s. I think that Noel might be undergoing some sort of anxiety about not fitting in with artists such as D. Albarn and T. Yorke at the level of their artistic ambition and capacities. Or maybe he is simply out of artistic direction. In any case, he doesn't know how to channel this need for experimentation. Listening to David Bowie's lost demos or sampling tracks from a 1970s Vietnamese punk film just leads him to do things that appear too forced, unoriginal and, paradoxically, boring. Or he's doing what he wants and you just don't like it |
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Post by dampcottage on May 26, 2021 4:06:24 GMT -5
It was Noel trying to prove he watches avant garde films. In the end, its just him having "cool" song titles for silly songs. Holy Mountain is the perfect reflection of Noel's main problem over the last few years: he tries way too much to show he can make artistic statements only to fail miserably, like when he said CY was cosmic jazz just because he included some sax solos in a couple of tracks or the scissors thing and all that. Even his recent attempt at making "dance music" is cringe worthy, all those songs, like HM, sound so dated. Besides, he had already done that with the Chemical Bros in the late 90s. I think that Noel might be undergoing some sort of anxiety about not fitting in with artists such as D. Albarn and T. Yorke at the level of their artistic ambition and capacities. Or maybe he is simply out of artistic direction. In any case, he doesn't know how to channel this need for experimentation. Listening to David Bowie's lost demos or sampling tracks from a 1970s Vietnamese punk film just leads him to do things that appear too forced, unoriginal and, paradoxically, boring. Or he's doing what he wants and you just don't like it agreed, and if there was some need to make an "artistic statement".....it wouldn't be fuckin holy mountain would it? |
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Post by defmaybe00 on May 26, 2021 4:13:24 GMT -5
Or he's doing what he wants and you just don't like it agreed, and if there was some need to make an "artistic statement".....it wouldn't be fuckin holy mountain would it? But even if it was, he's a songwriter and he believes and likes what he's doing and he's gonna defend it, big fucking deal |
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cosmos
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 376
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Post by cosmos on May 26, 2021 4:19:55 GMT -5
agreed, and if there was some need to make an "artistic statement".....it wouldn't be fuckin holy mountain would it? But even if it was, he's a songwriter and he believes and likes what he's doing and he's gonna defend it, big fucking deal He can do whatever he wants, no one is saying otherwise. This thread is about the reception of the song and I just gave my opinion on why I think the song is utter shit. Don't need to be too defensive, kids. Plus, primary schools are already open. |
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Post by Teotihuacan on May 26, 2021 4:20:22 GMT -5
He's always pulled out cool titles from pop culture though. "Because we need each other" would be a shit title but he gave us the title Acquiesce because it sounded unusual and exotic in order to "fire people's imaginations".
I think it was the Paul Mathur book that said he heard the phrase acquiesce while watching coverage of the OJ Simpson trial. He looked up what it meant, adopted it for his tune and then came up with the explanation that Oasis music was so great that everybody who heard his music would relent, submit, acquiesce to its power.
Unusually Noel has penned 2 UK number ones where the title never appears in the song's lyric.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5