|
|
Post by walterglass on May 15, 2021 11:45:30 GMT -5
Statistics eh.
Cool.
|
|
|
|
Post by Teotihuacan on May 15, 2021 12:06:11 GMT -5
This has been a spirited, decent debate by both sides I think.
Interesting that what I considered on first listen a really facile , innocuous, straightfoward pop song generated such disagreement.
I expected something more LSD-inspired since he apparently copped the title from the unbelieveably insane Jodorowsky movie, to then find the vocal harmony was pretty much out of the Beatles' Back in the USSR box of hooks.
|
|
|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on May 15, 2021 16:29:14 GMT -5
Honestly you can generate Instant Disagreement® on any random song performed by either Gallagher, and popular's got nothing to do with it. People disagreeing about a song's worth is just par for the course, isn't it?
There are long threads on this board with diverging opinions about say Beady Eye's "Girls in Uniform." (It's got a beautiful Rubber Soul vibe ... It's a complete disgrace.) Is that song something you'd really call divisive? Is it great art? Nah, it's just a song and you like it or you don't. So it ever was.
There are handfuls of songs that are truly divisive in a lasting way, in the sense that they shook up or defied the culture, but this is not Holy Mountain ... or really anything from a solo Gallagher. As another song people here don't agree on at all suggests ... you rarely get to do something culture-changing more than once.
|
|
|
|
Post by defmaybe00 on May 15, 2021 16:44:20 GMT -5
Honestly you can generate Instant Disagreement® on any random song performed by either Gallagher, and popular's got nothing to do with it. People disagreeing about a song's worth is just par for the course, isn't it? There are long threads on this board with diverging opinions about say Beady Eye's "Girls in Uniform." (I t's got a beautiful Rubber Soul vibe ... It's a complete disgrace.) Is that song something you'd really call divisive? Is it great art? Nah, it's just a song and you like it or you don't. So it ever was. There are handfuls of songs that are truly divisive in a lasting way, in the sense that they shook up or defied the culture, but this is not Holy Mountain ... or really anything from a solo Gallagher. As another song people here don't agree on at all suggests ... you rarely get to do something culture-changing more than once. We're talking about divisive in the fanbase though, aren't we? |
|
|
|
Post by spaneli on May 15, 2021 17:09:02 GMT -5
Honestly you can generate Instant Disagreement® on any random song performed by either Gallagher, and popular's got nothing to do with it. People disagreeing about a song's worth is just par for the course, isn't it? There are long threads on this board with diverging opinions about say Beady Eye's "Girls in Uniform." (I t's got a beautiful Rubber Soul vibe ... It's a complete disgrace.) Is that song something you'd really call divisive? Is it great art? Nah, it's just a song and you like it or you don't. So it ever was. There are handfuls of songs that are truly divisive in a lasting way, in the sense that they shook up or defied the culture, but this is not Holy Mountain ... or really anything from a solo Gallagher. As another song people here don't agree on at all suggests ... you rarely get to do something culture-changing more than once. We're talking about divisive in the fanbase though, aren't we? To hit the well on my Hook analogy: Even with that film's stature bouncing back, no one would declare that that movie was divisive in a way that it "shook up the culture." But it didn't to be. If you were a Spielberg fan, it was divisive for you and your friends and fellow fans. That's all that really matters. And as you point out defmaybe00, that's what this thread is about: Why is this track so divisive among fans? |
|
|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on May 15, 2021 18:17:21 GMT -5
Honestly you can generate Instant Disagreement® on any random song performed by either Gallagher, and popular's got nothing to do with it. People disagreeing about a song's worth is just par for the course, isn't it? There are long threads on this board with diverging opinions about say Beady Eye's "Girls in Uniform." (I t's got a beautiful Rubber Soul vibe ... It's a complete disgrace.) Is that song something you'd really call divisive? Is it great art? Nah, it's just a song and you like it or you don't. So it ever was. There are handfuls of songs that are truly divisive in a lasting way, in the sense that they shook up or defied the culture, but this is not Holy Mountain ... or really anything from a solo Gallagher. As another song people here don't agree on at all suggests ... you rarely get to do something culture-changing more than once. We're talking about divisive in the fanbase though, aren't we? But what isn't divisive in the fan base in the very simple sense that some say yes, please and some say no thank you? Could we even agree on a single solo song by either Gallagher that everyone in the fan base adores? It just says nothing about the lasting value of any song that some like it and some don't. It doesn't mark a song as great art and it also doesn't mark it as forgettable crap. It's just the territory. Main point being that if you want to argue that Holy Mountain is great art, have at it ... but based on the song's merits. |
|
|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on May 15, 2021 18:45:50 GMT -5
We're talking about divisive in the fanbase though, aren't we? To hit the well on my Hook analogy: Even with that film's stature bouncing back, no one would declare that that movie was divisive in a way that it "shook up the culture." But it didn't to be. If you were a Spielberg fan, it was divisive for you and your friends and fellow fans. That's all that really matters. And as you point out defmaybe00 , that's what this thread is about: Why is this track so divisive among fans? Only thing I am saying is: divisive does not equal great art (where great art means something people are still talking about passionately 50 or 100 years later). In a few cases you can argue something was so divisive that it became historically important, but that's about the only reason that a division of opinion would matter as to whether a song or a movie or a book endured. That's it. I can see where there are several analogies to be made between Spielberg and Noel, but that is a whole other conversation ...  |
|
|
|
Post by matt on May 16, 2021 5:45:49 GMT -5
If it was outright shit, it wouldn’t be so divisive (it would be universally panned). But divisive it definitely is. I love the cacophony of sound. So much more exciting than the tame bland tunes Noel did before in the studio. I think it’s fine for a guy who writes nonsense for fun a lot in his career to go overboard in a while and really go the full length. I just wanted something different aside from the white man British rock influences of old that were becoming a millstone around Noel’s neck (if it weren’t the Beatles, it would always be some other British retro act). It’s fresh and new, akin to Liam’s solo career, it felt like a proper new chapter and not retreading old ground.
As for Girls In Uniform, aside from it’s yet more blatant Beatles tribute act sound, there’s a song for middle aged perverts!
|
|
|
|
Post by jeffrey on May 18, 2021 15:36:15 GMT -5
Noel has the right to play/record the type of music that he wants to, but it’s not the type of music I enjoy. I can also say that I have four truly madferit friends that I’ve traveled with to see Oasis/solo gigs and all of us find it to be comically bad; not a single redeeming quality, even his voice.
|
|
|
|
Post by uboasis on May 18, 2021 15:47:35 GMT -5
Noel has the right to play/record the type of music that he wants to, but it’s not the type of music I enjoy. I can also say that I have four truly madferit friends that I’ve traveled with to see Oasis/solo gigs and all of us find it to be comically bad; not a single redeeming quality, even his voice. The song is fantastic |
|
|
|
Post by jeffrey on May 18, 2021 16:24:55 GMT -5
Noel has the right to play/record the type of music that he wants to, but it’s not the type of music I enjoy. I can also say that I have four truly madferit friends that I’ve traveled with to see Oasis/solo gigs and all of us find it to be comically bad; not a single redeeming quality, even his voice. The song is fantastic The issue with your response is you’re speaking as if it’s a fact. It doesn’t happen to be for me or my friends, but I didn’t definitively say it’s an abject pile of shit. |
|
|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on May 18, 2021 16:40:48 GMT -5
If it was outright shit, it wouldn’t be so divisive (it would be universally panned). But divisive it definitely is. I love the cacophony of sound. So much more exciting than the tame bland tunes Noel did before in the studio. I think it’s fine for a guy who writes nonsense for fun a lot in his career to go overboard in a while and really go the full length. I just wanted something different aside from the white man British rock influences of old that were becoming a millstone around Noel’s neck (if it weren’t the Beatles, it would always be some other British retro act). It’s fresh and new, akin to Liam’s solo career, it felt like a proper new chapter and not retreading old ground. As for Girls In Uniform, aside from it’s yet more blatant Beatles tribute act sound, there’s a song for middle aged perverts!Heh, perhaps, but also not a song that is universally panned at all! Very few songs from Oasis or either Gallagher are. Some might veer more one way than the other--whereas Holy Mountain is more you either seem to adore it or just can't stand it--but there are precious few that we could ALL agree are outright shit (though I realize it is the nature of this that everyone, including myself, thinks they truly know shit when they hear it ...) |
|
|
|
Post by The Escapist on May 18, 2021 16:48:32 GMT -5
I don't think I've even heard Oasis fans talk about Better Man. Not to slag it, not to praise it. There's just nothing about it that warrants having any kind of discussion. It's an album-closer, as well. Not a b-side or bonus track. Mad.
|
|
|
|
Post by defmaybe00 on May 18, 2021 16:49:58 GMT -5
I don't think I've even heard Oasis fans talk about Better Man. Not to slag it, not to praise it. There's just nothing about it that warrants having any kind of discussion. It's an album-closer, as well. Not a b-side or bonus track. Mad. Cause it's shit |
|
|
|
Post by The Escapist on May 18, 2021 16:55:26 GMT -5
I don't think I've even heard Oasis fans talk about Better Man. Not to slag it, not to praise it. There's just nothing about it that warrants having any kind of discussion. It's an album-closer, as well. Not a b-side or bonus track. Mad. Cause it's shit Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. |
|
|
|
Post by His Royal Noelness on May 18, 2021 17:30:12 GMT -5
Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. I know what you mean. I constantly forget it exists. One of the few I've never attempted on guitar either. |
|
|
|
Post by jeffrey on May 18, 2021 17:44:55 GMT -5
I don't think I've even heard Oasis fans talk about Better Man. Not to slag it, not to praise it. There's just nothing about it that warrants having any kind of discussion. It's an album-closer, as well. Not a b-side or bonus track. Mad. Hmmm... I happen to think it’s colossal live. Edit: I’d also say that Better Man is strange comparison. HM was a lead single on an album promised to be something different/psychedelic and was raved about as one of his favorite things he’s ever written. |
|
|
|
Post by defmaybe00 on May 18, 2021 17:45:48 GMT -5
Aye, I know, but no-one ever even takes the time to call it shit. Like how people slag Magic Pie or will call Ain't Got Nothin' terrible - those songs aren't masterpieces, but they get talked about. Everyone just seems to accept that Better Man isn't even worth the effort of insulting. I do think there are a few songs like that on HC, sadly |
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on May 18, 2021 18:11:40 GMT -5
I don't think I've even heard Oasis fans talk about Better Man. Not to slag it, not to praise it. There's just nothing about it that warrants having any kind of discussion. It's an album-closer, as well. Not a b-side or bonus track. Mad. That’s a great call. It’s so inoffensive. |
|
|
|
Post by girllikeabomb on May 18, 2021 18:16:27 GMT -5
I don't think I've even heard Oasis fans talk about Better Man. Not to slag it, not to praise it. There's just nothing about it that warrants having any kind of discussion. It's an album-closer, as well. Not a b-side or bonus track. Mad. Hmmm... I happen to think it’s colossal live. See, there ya go. Even Better Man can in fact be divisive.  Definitely one of the least discussed Oasis songs here ... but on another forum there is a thread in which someone calls it "a highlight of the period." And there's more than one lover in the Amazon reviews of HC, with multiple people citing it as one of the top tunes on the album. A few examples: "Better Man: A big stomping rock song with distorted blues riff and solos and the swagger and attitude that the brothers always had in abundance. It closes the record on a big way, at least sonically anyway and makes a cool rock song." "Better Man provides the album w/ a crisp new sounding oasis." "Better Man, the last track, is a guitar-heavy rocker of the old school that's a great way to close the album. It, too, has a cool groove that keeps pushing the song forward to the final feedback-laden fade-out." Have to call that praise. |
|
|
|
Post by Manualex on May 18, 2021 19:27:55 GMT -5
I don't think I've even heard Oasis fans talk about Better Man. Not to slag it, not to praise it. There's just nothing about it that warrants having any kind of discussion. It's an album-closer, as well. Not a b-side or bonus track. Mad. That’s a great call. It’s so inoffensive. The demo was good, well, as good as Better Man could be. They used that as the basis for the live perfomances. The studio versión 🤔😕 |
|
|
|
Post by freddy838 on May 18, 2021 20:20:44 GMT -5
The outro to Better Man got changed for some reason from the original leaked HC, my theory was Johnny Marr wrote it and didn't get credit? They played the original one a couple of times live and it was badass.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on May 18, 2021 22:39:40 GMT -5
And somehow "The Cage" made HC but "Shout It Out Loud" died a slow death as a b-side.
|
|
|
|
Post by glider on May 18, 2021 23:12:24 GMT -5
Since we're talking about HC I'll once again post what I did in the HC thread.
Heathen Chemistry would've been a terrific EP:
1. The Hindu Times
2. Little By Little
3. Stop Crying Your Heart Out
4. Songbird
5. Shout It Out Loud
A nicely arranged 20 minute package containing a couple of rockers, a wistful ballad, and two instrospective post-Britpop pieces to commemorate over a decade of the band's existence. Retool and refresh for a stronger LP5 in the mid aughts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on May 18, 2021 23:33:24 GMT -5
Since we're talking about HC I'll once again post what I did in the HC thread. Heathen Chemistry would've been a terrific EP: 1. The Hindu Times2. Little By Little 3. Stop Crying Your Heart Out 4. Songbird 5. Shout It Out Loud A nicely arranged 20 minute package containing a couple of rockers, a wistful ballad, and two instrospective post-Britpop pieces to commemorate over a decade of the band's existence. Retool and refresh for a stronger LP5 in the mid aughts. The recording of this never sat right for me. Sounds way too compressed. No space for the instruments or supportive music. Kermit Liam debut. |
|
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5