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Post by bt95 on Apr 18, 2020 12:29:33 GMT -5
cuts which will have to be introduced due to a global economic crash likely to be far worse than 2008. In the UK, we're going to have to have 10 years of austerity, at least, regardless of who is in power. There it is. Mask-off neoliberal bullshit. We're all in it together, old boy. The reason countries like Denmark, Germany and Austria are coming out of lockdown now is that they haven't bungled this at every single step, causing thousands of deaths and the very economic damage you are so concerned about. Mask-off? What does that even mean? Of course we're all in it together in a sense - this has impacted everybody hasn't it. And - while I think the government should be demanding billionaires etc fork out and help - I'm not idealistic enough to think that over the next 5-10 years we won't all suffer because of this. Whether that's higher taxes or more cuts to services. I voted for a party which I believed would boost services etc in the last three elections and they lost every time. Denmark, Austria and Germany all went into lockdown far earlier than us. I'm not disputing they've done a better job at reacting to this than the UK has. But all of those countires have taken a huge hit just like the UK has. Germany have announced a €700 billion stimulus package - that is going to cost the German public too in the long run. Italy and Spain can hardly say the same, though, and both countries are slowly easing lockdown measures (albeit ones which are stricter than the UKs). Again, I stress I don't think this can happen for weeks here, at least. And if the countries in Europe don't have success when it comes to lifting their lockdowns then we need to heed the warnings of where they go wrong. I don't know what a neo-liberal is. I don't know what you're accusing me of. I'm being realistic. I know that after this it's going to be extremely tough and right now as worried and anrgy as I am about the virus/the gov reaction/the useless World Health Organisation/China et al, and the thousands of lives its costing, I'm more worried about the millions of lives which could and most likely will be effected as a consequence of all this slow reaction. Anyway, this thread's not for that. I responded to your post because - typically - you have to call somebody a Tory. It's all you seem to do. I guess it's what you've just called me for suggesting it's going to be a pretty shit next few years if/when there's another economic crash. I hope you and your family/friends stay well through this and that you don't lose your job or worse. Because it's shit. But well, I better not worry about the future, or I'll get called a Tory. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 13:57:53 GMT -5
There it is. Mask-off neoliberal bullshit. We're all in it together, old boy. The reason countries like Denmark, Germany and Austria are coming out of lockdown now is that they haven't bungled this at every single step, causing thousands of deaths and the very economic damage you are so concerned about. Mask-off? What does that even mean? Of course we're all in it together in a sense - this has impacted everybody hasn't it. And - while I think the government should be demanding billionaires etc fork out and help - I'm not idealistic enough to think that over the next 5-10 years we won't all suffer because of this. Whether that's higher taxes or more cuts to services. I voted for a party which I believed would boost services etc in the last three elections and they lost every time. Denmark, Austria and Germany all went into lockdown far earlier than us. I'm not disputing they've done a better job at reacting to this than the UK has. But all of those countires have taken a huge hit just like the UK has. Germany have announced a €700 billion stimulus package - that is going to cost the German public too in the long run. Italy and Spain can hardly say the same, though, and both countries are slowly easing lockdown measures (albeit ones which are stricter than the UKs). Again, I stress I don't think this can happen for weeks here, at least. And if the countries in Europe don't have success when it comes to lifting their lockdowns then we need to heed the warnings of where they go wrong. I don't know what a neo-liberal is. I don't know what you're accusing me of. I'm being realistic. I know that after this it's going to be extremely tough and right now as worried and anrgy as I am about the virus/the gov reaction/the useless World Health Organisation/China et al, and the thousands of lives its costing, I'm more worried about the millions of lives which could and most likely will be effected as a consequence of all this slow reaction. Anyway, this thread's not for that. I responded to your post because - typically - you have to call somebody a Tory. It's all you seem to do. I guess it's what you've just called me for suggesting it's going to be a pretty shit next few years if/when there's another economic crash. I hope you and your family/friends stay well through this and that you don't lose your job or worse. Because it's shit. But well, I better not worry about the future, or I'll get called a Tory. You have Google, you can look up the terms I use. The fact that you've already accepted 10 years of austerity before it has even happened is the kind of slavish devotion to the market that lands us with 10 years of ideologically driven austerity. The BoE actually quietly released £200bn in quantitative easing right at the beginning of this crisis despite the research on the last round of QE showing that it overwhelming ends up in the hands of the wealthy (probably not "despite" tbf). Money is not a naturally occurring substance and where it comes from and goes is all about political choices. Zeros can be added. Tax systems can be changed. Long terms impacts can be managed. We can control the economy a lot more easily than we can control a virus. We just have to get away from this notion that the economy is some kind of sentient being. On the WHO: Clearly imperfect, but the two countries who decided they knew better are the two countries experiencing the most appalling death rates. On Toryism: I believe I've called two people Tories on this forum, one of whom is not a forum member but an international rock star. The other is yourself. Both of these people have taken the view that we should accept preventable deaths in exchange for preserving a failed market system, which is actually to the right of the current Cabinet thinking as we understand it. "all you seem to do": Some of us have receipts, champ. |
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Post by bt95 on Apr 18, 2020 16:19:23 GMT -5
Mask-off? What does that even mean? Of course we're all in it together in a sense - this has impacted everybody hasn't it. And - while I think the government should be demanding billionaires etc fork out and help - I'm not idealistic enough to think that over the next 5-10 years we won't all suffer because of this. Whether that's higher taxes or more cuts to services. I voted for a party which I believed would boost services etc in the last three elections and they lost every time. Denmark, Austria and Germany all went into lockdown far earlier than us. I'm not disputing they've done a better job at reacting to this than the UK has. But all of those countires have taken a huge hit just like the UK has. Germany have announced a €700 billion stimulus package - that is going to cost the German public too in the long run. Italy and Spain can hardly say the same, though, and both countries are slowly easing lockdown measures (albeit ones which are stricter than the UKs). Again, I stress I don't think this can happen for weeks here, at least. And if the countries in Europe don't have success when it comes to lifting their lockdowns then we need to heed the warnings of where they go wrong. I don't know what a neo-liberal is. I don't know what you're accusing me of. I'm being realistic. I know that after this it's going to be extremely tough and right now as worried and anrgy as I am about the virus/the gov reaction/the useless World Health Organisation/China et al, and the thousands of lives its costing, I'm more worried about the millions of lives which could and most likely will be effected as a consequence of all this slow reaction. Anyway, this thread's not for that. I responded to your post because - typically - you have to call somebody a Tory. It's all you seem to do. I guess it's what you've just called me for suggesting it's going to be a pretty shit next few years if/when there's another economic crash. I hope you and your family/friends stay well through this and that you don't lose your job or worse. Because it's shit. But well, I better not worry about the future, or I'll get called a Tory. You have Google, you can look up the terms I use. The fact that you've already accepted 10 years of austerity before it has even happened is the kind of slavish devotion to the market that lands us with 10 years of ideologically driven austerity. The BoE actually quietly released £200bn in quantitative easing right at the beginning of this crisis despite the research on the last round of QE showing that it overwhelming ends up in the hands of the wealthy (probably not "despite" tbf). Money is not a naturally occurring substance and where it comes from and goes is all about political choices. Zeros can be added. Tax systems can be changed. Long terms impacts can be managed. We can control the economy a lot more easily than we can control a virus. We just have to get away from this notion that the economy is some kind of sentient being. On the WHO: Clearly imperfect, but the two countries who decided they knew better are the two countries experiencing the most appalling death rates. On Toryism: I believe I've called two people Tories on this forum, one of whom is not a forum member but an international rock star. The other is yourself. Both of these people have taken the view that we should accept preventable deaths in exchange for preserving a failed market system, which is actually to the right of the current Cabinet thinking as we understand it. "all you seem to do": Some of us have receipts, champ. I'm a lifelong (as in the 7 years I have been able to vote) Labour voter. From a family of Labour voters. So call me a Tory all you want, it's water off a duck's back cause that was the argument for the last few years anyway from the Corbinistas anyway. It really worked great didn't it - the biggest Tory majority in ages. I'm working class, growing up me and my family were shit on by a Labour gov and a Tory gov. I don't think in any way that our government's response has been good enough and I'd like to think that if Labour had been in they'd have taken action sooner. I'm not accepting austerity at all. But is it more likely now? Yes. I'm also not devoted to a market, I just don't think socialism works without capitalism and it's the same the other way around. If that's a neo-liberal so be it. I don't really see it as being wrong because there's examples of both not working on their own. I don't think a government should fund everybody - but I do think it should provide adequately in times of need (something which from personal experience I know stuff like UC doesn't do - again, I voted for a party which I hoped would change that, but they've not got in power and if anything just handed complete control to the Tories). A government should provide for in terms of your health and welfare services and all the rest, and protect its people and give them the opportunity to thrive - in whatever field that is. On the WHO: I was actually talking about how poor it was at the start of this and how useless they were in getting info from China - and there are definitely links there which need to be questioned. The Taiwan example being the prime one. South Korea went their own way, as did Singapore, as have Taiwan. Different factors obviously and more rigourous testing (and contact tracing). Sweden - the most, or one of the most, left-wing nations in the world - has stayed open, obviously with some measures in place. Again, factors such as better health care and a lower population mean doing that there is more likely to be a success than it would be in the UK. We'll have to wait and see how it turns out. Sweden did this to preserve their economy. Given how late the UK and most of Europe left to do preparation (order more PPE, expand capacity, purchase ventilators, up testing etc could all have been done through Feb) then there was little choice but to go into lockdown. I find it weird that some people actively seem to want to live in a police state and be locked in their homes, but it was needed). Had we been more prepared, we might have been able to go into lockdown for a set amount of time rather than an indefinite period, but it is what it is. You also have accused me of accepting prevantable deaths. I haven't done that one bit. What I have said is that, as a consequence of another economic crash, there will be more deaths - deaths that are preventable too, and won't be down to a virus (a virus which 80% of people show no symptoms) but will be down to poverty, homelessness, starvation, suffering health care systems. If you're idealistic enough to think that this thing will lead to a huge overhaul of the economic system then good for you. Maybe it will. Is it likely? I really doubt it. I really hope we don't have an economic crash, but it's very very likely. I'm getting any work in my field that I can atm - it's tough. I'm relying on my £94 a week Universal Credit to help tide me over. I don't qualify for the self-employed scheme. So if I'm a Tory for worrying about my future - and my families future, as my mum, dad and sister are all self-employed and two of the three have also lost a big chunk of work because of this - then whatever. I don't think that's the same as accepting preventable deaths. Anyway, derailed the thread enough. Apologies to posters who were talking about the podcast. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 16:54:55 GMT -5
I can't be arsed with the whole thing but my key point is that all the causes of deaths you've raised are the results of political choices and are absolutely NOT inevitable even in the worst of economic conditions. It's all about how much money you're willing to create and where you let it go.
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Post by draper on Apr 18, 2020 17:35:38 GMT -5
He's got a bunch of new tunes that he wants to demo and nobody cares..times have changed  |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Apr 18, 2020 18:33:25 GMT -5
I can't be arsed with the whole thing but my key point is that all the causes of deaths you've raised are the results of political choices and are absolutely NOT inevitable even in the worst of economic conditions. It's all about how much money you're willing to create and where you let it go. Exactly this. Austerity after the 2008 crash was a politcal choice and it will be again. Raise corporation tax and make them fucking pay it, raise income tax for the wealthy, close all the loop holes. Or better still just get together with the other nations and just say fuck it we're not paying. Of course none of this will happen it will fall to the masses to foot the bill. Can't wait. |
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Post by lalaland on Apr 18, 2020 19:32:29 GMT -5
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Post by bt95 on Apr 19, 2020 4:46:46 GMT -5
I can't be arsed with the whole thing but my key point is that all the causes of deaths you've raised are the results of political choices and are absolutely NOT inevitable even in the worst of economic conditions. It's all about how much money you're willing to create and where you let it go. 'Can't be arsed with the whole thing' - is that because you just like calling people a Tory and assuming you know about their lives? And actually I don't at all think like you seem to have assumed I think. If you have faith in the current governments of the west to change things and not go into economic downturn then you have more faith in them than me. |
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Post by bt95 on Apr 19, 2020 4:49:15 GMT -5
I can't be arsed with the whole thing but my key point is that all the causes of deaths you've raised are the results of political choices and are absolutely NOT inevitable even in the worst of economic conditions. It's all about how much money you're willing to create and where you let it go. Exactly this. Austerity after the 2008 crash was a politcal choice and it will be again. Raise corporation tax and make them fucking pay it, raise income tax for the wealthy, close all the loop holes. Or better still just get together with the other nations and just say fuck it we're not paying. Of course none of this will happen it will fall to the masses to foot the bill. Can't wait. Which is what I said, Tom. I'm not saying more austerity is the right approach. But being realistic, what's going to happen? I say that and get called a Tory. Back to the podcast, Noel said - in a brief 5-minute bit where they actually talked about it - that he was worried about the financial and social repercussions (i.e. people losing their jobs - which tons and tons already have and tons will. And it's not just from big, evil corporations - it's small businesses who employ 5-10 people who are going under, for example). How in the world is that right wing? |
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Post by bt95 on Apr 19, 2020 4:50:20 GMT -5
He's got a bunch of new tunes that he wants to demo and nobody cares..times have changed He did also say he's got bored of writing already so taking it with a pinch of salt  |
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Post by carlober on Apr 19, 2020 7:30:09 GMT -5
People are easily annoyed at everyone and everything in these times.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 8:34:36 GMT -5
People are easily annoyed at everyone and everything in these times. My sincerest apologies for being annoyed at people dying unnecessarily and for the events leading to their deaths being to used to justify future avoidable deaths. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 8:43:07 GMT -5
I can't be arsed with the whole thing but my key point is that all the causes of deaths you've raised are the results of political choices and are absolutely NOT inevitable even in the worst of economic conditions. It's all about how much money you're willing to create and where you let it go. 'Can't be arsed with the whole thing' - is that because you just like calling people a Tory and assuming you know about their lives? And actually I don't at all think like you seem to have assumed I think. If you have faith in the current governments of the west to change things and not go into economic downturn then you have more faith in them than me. Had more to do with wanting to do something other with my evening than continue to argue that lethal pro-austerity dogma is not the route out of an economic crisis when we have the benefit of evidence not even a decade old that it doesn't work with someone who for some reason is very keen to continue the human sacrifice to capitalism on an Oasis forum. |
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Post by bt95 on Apr 19, 2020 10:00:15 GMT -5
People are easily annoyed at everyone and everything in these times. My sincerest apologies for being annoyed at people dying unnecessarily and for the events leading to their deaths being to used to justify future avoidable deaths. I really don't think anyone – including Noel – has said that. He just said he is worried about the future. As are many people. |
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Post by carlober on Apr 19, 2020 10:01:07 GMT -5
People are easily annoyed at everyone and everything in these times. My sincerest apologies for being annoyed at people dying unnecessarily and for the events leading to their deaths being to used to justify future avoidable deaths. That's not what I meant and you know it. You love playing the victim card, don't you? |
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Post by bt95 on Apr 19, 2020 10:03:29 GMT -5
'Can't be arsed with the whole thing' - is that because you just like calling people a Tory and assuming you know about their lives? And actually I don't at all think like you seem to have assumed I think. If you have faith in the current governments of the west to change things and not go into economic downturn then you have more faith in them than me. Had more to do with wanting to do something other with my evening than continue to argue that lethal pro-austerity dogma is not the route out of an economic crisis when we have the benefit of evidence not even a decade old that it doesn't work with someone who for some reason is very keen to continue the human sacrifice to capitalism on an Oasis forum. I'm sure you had better things to do with your evening. So did I. You could have easily just replied in full at a time that suited you or had a bit more courtesy. Again, please point out where I have said that I want austerity. In fact, I've said the exact opposite. Also, please point out where I have said that things should return to normal and that people should die? I think you'll find I've said explicitly that I don't think the UK should consider coming out of lockdown any time soon until we know it's safe. But am I currently worried about my future - having lost a lot of work and now having to rely on Universal Credit to boost some shifts I'm managing to pick up? Yeh, I'm very worried about that. You're clearly lucky if you don't have that worry and can concentrate on calling people neo-liberal on an Oasis forum. |
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Post by brumoscardo on Apr 19, 2020 10:44:35 GMT -5
Wow audio from his phone is f awful Is he in quarantine in a lost island or something? My English is not that strong |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 14:22:51 GMT -5
My sincerest apologies for being annoyed at people dying unnecessarily and for the events leading to their deaths being to used to justify future avoidable deaths. That's not what I meant and you know it. You love playing the victim card, don't you? In that case I have no idea what you actually meant. You're going to have to explain the "victim card", champ, because I'm not getting that either. |
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Post by Jessica on Apr 30, 2020 9:15:42 GMT -5
Another one came out today. Matt had asked for some questions over at Instagram. Wasn't directly through his phone this time.
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Post by Derrick on Apr 30, 2020 17:01:40 GMT -5
Another one came out today. Matt had asked for some questions over at Instagram. Wasn't directly through his phone this time. Does Noel say anything worth mentioning? |
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Post by Jessica on Apr 30, 2020 21:50:49 GMT -5
Does Noel say anything worth mentioning? Not really.  One of the questions was what was his favorite Johnny Marr riff, but he couldn't pick one, another was what would be a year he would relive, and he said the year he turned 50 (literally  ) and talked a bit about his two day party he had and how his 40's were great, a bit about Ryan Adam's cover of Wonderwall/how it wasn't until then that they couldn't do it well live until then (nothing that hasn't already been said), and a brief mention of that Tailgunner album he did with Paul Stacey and Mark Coyle (he basically tells Matt to go listen to it because he was unaware), and then one of the last questions was like, where was the worst place he's woken up. He didn't have an answer to that either, but said Vegas would be pretty bad and then they went on about the last time him, Russell and Matt were there. I'm not on Instagram so I can't keep an eye on it, but when he asks for questions, it's in one of those posts that disappear after a day. Maybe someone here can keep an eye on that so people here can try and get a question answered by him next time (particularly maybe about that demo we got yesterday and whether we're getting more). |
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Post by bt95 on May 1, 2020 5:12:33 GMT -5
Another one came out today. Matt had asked for some questions over at Instagram. Wasn't directly through his phone this time. Does Noel say anything worth mentioning? Half of their conversation couldn't load so there's a chunk missing (according to Matt) that they'll try and recover. But he said they're probably gonna carry it on cause Noel is happy to do it. They're nothing serious or groundbreaking but they're funny enough chats. Listened to it on my run yesterday and I did laugh out loud a few times - must've looked a bit mental. |
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Post by oasisunited on May 1, 2020 7:45:48 GMT -5
Another one came out today. Matt had asked for some questions over at Instagram. Wasn't directly through his phone this time. Does Noel say anything worth mentioning? There is a bit in there where they talk about Wonderwall and how Noel thought it was a nothing song until everyone who heard the finished recording said it was going to be huge. He even admitted that he wished he had gone back and done more work on it to make it more "finished" once people around the band (including James Dean Bradfield of the Manics heard it on a train ride with Noel back to London from Rockfield/Wales) gave their opinion on it. |
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Post by Bonehead's Barber on May 4, 2020 10:37:43 GMT -5
Listening to it now. The irony of Noel saying Liam 'loses his bottle' when he walks off stage....
.... then proceeding to pretend he hasn't heard Liam singing Don't Look Back in Anger.
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Post by bt95 on May 10, 2020 18:31:14 GMT -5
New pod out Monday and he's on it again
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One of the questions was what was his favorite Johnny Marr riff, but he couldn't pick one, another was what would be a year he would relive, and he said the year he turned 50 (literally 
) and talked a bit about his two day party he had and how his 40's were great, a bit about Ryan Adam's cover of Wonderwall/how it wasn't until then that they couldn't do it well live until then (nothing that hasn't already been said), and a brief mention of that Tailgunner album he did with Paul Stacey and Mark Coyle (he basically tells Matt to go listen to it because he was unaware), and then one of the last questions was like, where was the worst place he's woken up. He didn't have an answer to that either, but said Vegas would be pretty bad and then they went on about the last time him, Russell and Matt were there.
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5