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Post by GlastoEls on Nov 4, 2021 16:54:05 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is talking about "authenticity" mentioning how many melodies are absolutely new and never heard before, no one has brought that up as it wouldn't be relevant in this convo When I say "authentic" (think I actually mentioned credibility instead, but anyway) I'm talking about how some of the music to me doesn't sound like it's something that could come from Liam and goes down well with what he represents, and MY interpretation is that some of it may be because of the way those things are written When I hear Wyatt's philosophing in Chinatown and The River or the lights going down on Broadway in Alright Now or Paper Crown being so odd and out of place next to the other songs on As You Were it makes me cringe That's just me, people are free to enjoy it, but that's got nothing to do with Noel taking the All the Young Dudes melody and making Don't Look Back In Anger out of it I definitely understand why some so strongly desire Liam to make a very personal album, although I think he has remarkably little incentive to do that at this juncture in his career. If it ever happens, it'll happen in a different phase. But I still don't really understand the "credibility" thing. It just seems to me to be another way of saying "I don't like the song" or "I don't personally relate to what the song's about." (Which is totally fair, no song or even writer is for everyone.) But what makes Liam singing Noel's words credible? I guess they grew up in the same house but they certainly don't think alike. For that matter what makes Roger Daltrey singing Pete Townshend's words credible (because god knows their philosophies on nearly everything conflict)? Certainly the half century some of those songs have lasted suggests many people do believe in them despite that. Why can't Liam sing about Broadway? He owned an apartment in New York and certainly has spent time there over many decades. Hell, even the fucking Clash wrote a song about Broadway! It's a pretty universal place. And speaking of Broadway, it's a place where people win accolades and awards for singing about stuff they never experienced and stories that didn't happen to them. Daltrey has actually spoken about being a lead singer as being akin to being an actor. That is, the credibility comes from within ...and not from your personal circumstances. It's a performance. (In the same way that Michael Fassbender never owned a slave, and isn't even American, yet he comes to life in that way on the screen to the point that it gets you emotionally...) Many songs that good lyricists write are "storytelling" songs as well. The examples are legion. Paul Weller recently wrote a song about the mid-century American artist Edward Hopper. What does that have to do with his life growing up in Woking? Well, nothing on the surface. But it's credible for him to write about anything that inspires him, same as its credible for Liam to sing any song to which he finds an emotional link. All time great post. |
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Post by lg on Nov 4, 2021 17:56:13 GMT -5
I trust you but neither of these three songs sounds like any other Liam' song, so either he has evolved as an artist or he didn't have much input on them On the other hand the verse of wmwn is pure Liam, the chords progression,the lyrics, the "melody" If you won’t have it when someone who knows what there talking about tells you, there’s no hope. I’ll just let you confirm to me what Liam had a hand in on the upcoming album 😂 The funny thing is that I'm getting "attacked" because I'm saying that Liam is a good songwriter and he has the abilities to write something good. I'm giving you my opinion but guess what it's not supposed to be necessarily a positive one, that's not how a forum works (To anyone asking why people are complaining). It's constructive criticism imo So if you interested in having a good and interesting conversation I'm up for it. On the other hand, if you just mock everyone who has a different view from you about Liam then I'm not interested. So, for a moment just try to be open-minded about other people's opinions. It's a sign of intelligence,a better one than sarcasm:) |
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Post by themanwholivesinhell on Nov 4, 2021 18:47:32 GMT -5
Shockwave is a good song. I know a lot of people like it, but its worst song in album for me. Obviously everyone has different opinions, but for me Wyatt and Kurstin sort of switched places between AYW and WMWN. With Wyatt I dont really rate Chinatown, and Paper Crown (I know he only wrote that one) took ages to grow on me, but I liked a lot more of his WMWN productions. While I liked Kurstin's three co-writes on AYW best, but Meadow and Shockwave I found to be the two of the weakest cuts on WMWN along with Glimmer. |
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Post by mancraider on Nov 4, 2021 19:26:45 GMT -5
I know a lot of people like it, but its worst song in album for me. Obviously everyone has different opinions, but for me Wyatt and Kurstin sort of switched places between AYW and WMWN. With Wyatt I dont really rate Chinatown, and Paper Crown (I know he only wrote that one) took ages to grow on me, but I liked a lot more of his WMWN productions. While I liked Kurstin's three co-writes on AYW best, but Meadow and Shockwave I found to be the two of the weakest cuts on WMWN along with Glimmer. on AYW wyatt and Liam never really co wrote together, they only shared credits when Kurstin was producing and was presumably the main songwriter. On WMWN they co-wrote a number of songs together, notably Once and The River plus Invisible Sun. Also Damon McMahon is credited on One of Us and Alright Now (which i really like although i know it gets some stick). Kurstins credits are definitely the weakest, Shockwave, Halo, Meadow. My view of Kurstin is that he is everything that some accuse Wyatt of being, a gun for hire that creates soulless, Liam by numbers tracks to order. Wyatt on the other hand really seems to have connected with Liam creatively and produced some great songs, with Liam trusting him enough to allow him to push his creative boundaries. If there is zero input from Greg Kurstin on this next album then it'll be all the better for it. |
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Post by themanwholivesinhell on Nov 4, 2021 19:32:01 GMT -5
Obviously everyone has different opinions, but for me Wyatt and Kurstin sort of switched places between AYW and WMWN. With Wyatt I dont really rate Chinatown, and Paper Crown (I know he only wrote that one) took ages to grow on me, but I liked a lot more of his WMWN productions. While I liked Kurstin's three co-writes on AYW best, but Meadow and Shockwave I found to be the two of the weakest cuts on WMWN along with Glimmer. on AYW wyatt and Liam never really co wrote together, they only shared credits when Kurstin was producing and was presumably the main songwriter. On WMWN they co-wrote a number of songs together, notably Once and The River plus Invisible Sun. Also Damon McMahon is credited on One of Us and Alright Now (which i really like although i know it gets some stick). Kurstins credits are definitely the weakest, Shockwave, Halo, Meadow. My view of Kurstin is that he is everything that some accuse Wyatt of being, a gun for hire that creates soulless, Liam by numbers tracks to order. Wyatt on the other hand really seems to have connected with Liam creatively and produced some great songs, with Liam trusting him enough to allow him to push his creative boundaries. If there is zero input from Greg Kurstin on this next album then it'll be all the better for it. I mean, Kurstin had the perfect comeback song for Liam in Wall of Glass, and I don't mind Halo but I certainly felt his work on WMWN was the weakest of him, Wyatt and Aldred. And I do get where you're coming from about Wyatt seeming to have formed more of a close rapport with Liam. So while I'm not saying Kurstin can't make a good Liam track, I wouldn't mind too much if he wasn't involved with this effort. |
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Post by mancraider on Nov 4, 2021 20:05:07 GMT -5
on AYW wyatt and Liam never really co wrote together, they only shared credits when Kurstin was producing and was presumably the main songwriter. On WMWN they co-wrote a number of songs together, notably Once and The River plus Invisible Sun. Also Damon McMahon is credited on One of Us and Alright Now (which i really like although i know it gets some stick). Kurstins credits are definitely the weakest, Shockwave, Halo, Meadow. My view of Kurstin is that he is everything that some accuse Wyatt of being, a gun for hire that creates soulless, Liam by numbers tracks to order. Wyatt on the other hand really seems to have connected with Liam creatively and produced some great songs, with Liam trusting him enough to allow him to push his creative boundaries. If there is zero input from Greg Kurstin on this next album then it'll be all the better for it. I mean, Kurstin had the perfect comeback song for Liam in Wall of Glass, and I don't mind Halo but I certainly felt his work on WMWN was the weakest of him, Wyatt and Aldred. And I do get where you're coming from about Wyatt seeming to have formed more of a close rapport with Liam. So while I'm not saying Kurstin can't make a good Liam track, I wouldn't mind too much if he wasn't involved with this effort. did he even write that though? There are five writers on that song, Liam, Kurstin, Wyatt, Tighe and Fox. No idea who Fox is and when you Google him literally the only song he is connected to is that one. Wouldnt surprise me if he brought the idea for the song to the table and the more established guys took a slice of the credits lol. I mean non of them have created anything similar since really. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Nov 4, 2021 20:54:15 GMT -5
If you won’t have it when someone who knows what there talking about tells you, there’s no hope. I’ll just let you confirm to me what Liam had a hand in on the upcoming album 😂 The funny thing is that I'm getting "attacked" because I'm saying that Liam is a good songwriter and he has the abilities to write something good. I'm giving you my opinion but guess what it's not supposed to be necessarily a positive one, that's not how a forum works (To anyone asking why people are complaining). It's constructive criticism imo So if you interested in having a good and interesting conversation I'm up for it. On the other hand, if you just mock everyone who has a different view from you about Liam then I'm not interested. So, for a moment just try to be open-minded about other people's opinions. It's a sign of intelligence,a better one than sarcasm:) I’ll try to play diplomat, no doubt at my peril  I think there are really three conversations here – one of which makes perfect sense and the other two are really kinda pointless. The conversation that makes sense is people like yourself saying I like Liam’s songwriting and I like Liam’s POV and I wish for there to be more Liam-written songs and Liam input in this and other albums. We all have hopes when it comes to stuff we love, even if they aren’t always met, and that's a beautiful thing. The most pointless conversation is the one saying that COYK is going to be X, Y or Z, whether that’s inauthentic, too much like WMWN, written entirely by Kanye, or a reggae-flamenco fusion space opera Wyatt wrote on mushrooms because we’ve got zero, zip, zilch, nada, nish, and also nothing to go on. The other pointless conversation is saying that singers have no right to sing unless they write every bit of their own material. No one has to listen to them but railing against people for doing their gig is silly because there are endless examples of it throughout time. It's even why there have been people who never had the charisma or temperament to be on stage yet could make a living at songwriting since Tin Pan Alley. (Another example from another genre: I read that Barbara Streisand once quipped that she wrote 2 and a half songs per decade! But when her voice was in its prime, people were crawling over one another to write songs for her. You don't have to like her type of music to understand that she had a gift.) Think this conversation got sidetracked the minute it was assumed that Wyatt was saying he had written the entire album. As igotflair helpfully said, it's not even clear what is going on the album right now, so I think that was jumping way ahead of things. Granted it is a slow wait. And granted we are bored. But, hey, when Knebworth is released in a couple weeks, the debate will switch to that again! |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Nov 4, 2021 21:11:31 GMT -5
I mean, Kurstin had the perfect comeback song for Liam in Wall of Glass, and I don't mind Halo but I certainly felt his work on WMWN was the weakest of him, Wyatt and Aldred. And I do get where you're coming from about Wyatt seeming to have formed more of a close rapport with Liam. So while I'm not saying Kurstin can't make a good Liam track, I wouldn't mind too much if he wasn't involved with this effort. did he even write that though? There are five writers on that song, Liam, Kurstin, Wyatt, Tighe and Fox. No idea who Fox is and when you Google him literally the only song he is connected to is that one. Wouldnt surprise me if he brought the idea for the song to the table and the more established guys took a slice of the credits lol. I mean non of them have created anything similar since really. More on Fox: dominopublishingco.com/writer/visuals-andrew-fox/ |
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Post by mancraider on Nov 4, 2021 22:18:23 GMT -5
did he even write that though? There are five writers on that song, Liam, Kurstin, Wyatt, Tighe and Fox. No idea who Fox is and when you Google him literally the only song he is connected to is that one. Wouldnt surprise me if he brought the idea for the song to the table and the more established guys took a slice of the credits lol. I mean non of them have created anything similar since really. More on Fox: dominopublishingco.com/writer/visuals-andrew-fox/nice one. from NY, probably a buddy of Wyatts then? As far as I remember there was only the three of them at those sessions, Kurstin/Wyatt/Liam so you'd put money on AW bringing WoG with him with Tighe/Fox credits then the three of them finishing it. The same with with Chinatown/Papercrown but they seem to have done then later without Kurstin. I doubt Liam had any real involvement in the writing of any of them but I do wonder ( in middle of boring nightshift and on 10th cup of coffee 🥺) if his contract for kurstin sessions stipulated they both got credits on any songs completed so they both listed on WoG, but CT/PC were done separately and not covered by this agreement which is why Liam doesn't have a writing credit. i remember reading at the time that Liam was only supposed to be meeting with Kurstin but Wyatt was a buddy of GK and effectively gatecrashed the sessions. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2021 2:15:18 GMT -5
I know a lot of people like it, but its worst song in album for me. It probably isn't as good as Wall Of Glass as that song was the perfect Liam come back song. But I think the worst song on Why Me Not is probably The Medow. I don't hate it but I just don't think that it's one of Liam's best solo songs. And I think The Meadow is probably the best song on the album, so beautiful, and the weakest is One Of Us. Just shows you how differently we feel about songs. Wall Of Glass was a good single and a good music video. I hope the next album has a strong single and a video too. They should push Liam to do a bit more than just walk around in the videos. Take him out of his comfort zone. If the album is 'a bit mad' make the videos a bit mad too. |
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Post by jh on Nov 5, 2021 2:25:46 GMT -5
I know a lot of people like it, but its worst song in album for me. It probably isn't as good as Wall Of Glass as that song was the perfect Liam come back song. But I think the worst song on Why Me Not is probably The Medow. I don't hate it but I just don't think that it's one of Liam's best solo songs. Meadow makes me utterly cringe. Sung very well but I really don't like it. That and the syrupy sick- Now that I've found you - I haven't listened to in a couple of years. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Nov 5, 2021 3:19:59 GMT -5
nice one. from NY, probably a buddy of Wyatts then? As far as I remember there was only the three of them at those sessions, Kurstin/Wyatt/Liam so you'd put money on AW bringing WoG with him with Tighe/Fox credits then the three of them finishing it. The same with with Chinatown/Papercrown but they seem to have done then later without Kurstin. I doubt Liam had any real involvement in the writing of any of them but I do wonder ( in middle of boring nightshift and on 10th cup of coffee 🥺) if his contract for kurstin sessions stipulated they both got credits on any songs completed so they both listed on WoG, but CT/PC were done separately and not covered by this agreement which is why Liam doesn't have a writing credit. i remember reading at the time that Liam was only supposed to be meeting with Kurstin but Wyatt was a buddy of GK and effectively gatecrashed the sessions. Yeah, I think Fox was connected to Wyatt, who seems to be into that whole electronic scene a bit. But there are so many ways you can get a writing credit on a song -- could be it was Fox's idea and they ran with it or it could be that he just contributed a snippet. In any case, he put it right into that bio  (something to be said for that LG Cred) Wyatt and Kurstin had a band together way back when. And Kurstin I think was a protege of David Byrne. |
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Post by girllikeabomb on Nov 5, 2021 3:22:39 GMT -5
I hope the next album has a strong single and a video too. They should push Liam to do a bit more than just walk around in the videos. Take him out of his comfort zone. If the album is 'a bit mad' make the videos a bit mad too. They should put Liam with a cool, visionary British woman director like Andrea Arnold or Joanna Hogg. |
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Post by oasisserbia on Nov 5, 2021 3:27:54 GMT -5
Liam Gallagher, Bowie and Arctic Monkeys are the only rock and roll artists that had new album in top 10 of UK biggest selling albums of the year in last ten years. No, we don't count greatest hits, I said new albums, and it's sad and hard to say but Bowie had to die to do that so that is also hard to count. And no, Coldplay isn't rock and roll. So I think that he knows how to do his job And what he is doing with that is much more important than to make some experimental or more commercial and modern and critically acclaimed music. And it's funny that they want him to change his style, be more modern and shit to sell more more records but he is selling more this way. |
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Post by Rolo on Nov 5, 2021 5:06:25 GMT -5
If you won’t have it when someone who knows what there talking about tells you, there’s no hope. I’ll just let you confirm to me what Liam had a hand in on the upcoming album 😂 The funny thing is that I'm getting "attacked" because I'm saying that Liam is a good songwriter and he has the abilities to write something good. I'm giving you my opinion but guess what it's not supposed to be necessarily a positive one, that's not how a forum works (To anyone asking why people are complaining). It's constructive criticism imo So if you interested in having a good and interesting conversation I'm up for it. On the other hand, if you just mock everyone who has a different view from you about Liam then I'm not interested. So, for a moment just try to be open-minded about other people's opinions. It's a sign of intelligence,a better one than sarcasm:) I don't think anyone is attacking you Leron. I think people are just a little confused about your what you're getting at. It's been confirmed by igotflair that his involvement is a lot more than he lets on and you still seem to be searching for more. We don't know yet how much involvement he's going to have on the new album, it's all guess work at the moment. We do know The World's In Need is his own tune and that's been recorded so there's one already. I also would like to see more Liam penned tunes make the cut but maybe they just aren't good enough? He's not exactly a prolific songwriter is he. I'd rather Liam singing quality over singing one of his own songs just to say "it's 100% his". At the end of the day we all (mostly) became fans of Liam because of his voice, not because of his songwriting. Just enjoy the fact we get to hear a whole album sung by the voice we love. |
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Post by defmaybe00 on Nov 5, 2021 6:41:57 GMT -5
Liam Gallagher, Bowie and Arctic Monkeys are the only rock and roll artists that had new album in top 10 of UK biggest selling albums of the year in last ten years. No, we don't count greatest hits, I said new albums, and it's sad and hard to say but Bowie had to die to do that so that is also hard to count. And no, Coldplay isn't rock and roll. So I think that he knows how to do his job And what he is doing with that is much more important than to make some experimental or more commercial and modern and critically acclaimed music. And it's funny that they want him to change his style, be more modern and shit to sell more more records but he is selling more this way. Who wants to "change" him to sell more records? |
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Post by Parka Flames on Nov 5, 2021 7:30:28 GMT -5
if I were a producer I would never allow a thinking being to write / record something like Shockwave Amen to that. I think its a poor song and any success of the album was despite that being its lead single rather than because of it. It was a kurstin song and thankfully there doesn't seem to have been any sign of him being involved in this album. Fingers crossed. Wall of Glass was a fantastic comeback single and a legitimately great modern rock song. Then everything else Kurstin has done with/for Liam has just been very generic boring tosh. I don't get it. |
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Post by Aman on Nov 5, 2021 11:24:54 GMT -5
Amen to that. I think its a poor song and any success of the album was despite that being its lead single rather than because of it. It was a kurstin song and thankfully there doesn't seem to have been any sign of him being involved in this album. Fingers crossed. Wall of Glass was a fantastic comeback single and a legitimately great modern rock song. Then everything else Kurstin has done with/for Liam has just been very generic boring tosh. I don't get it. Spot on. Meadow is horrific and I didn't mind Shockwave initially but after like the 3rd listen it's a poor song. Can't listen to that rubbish anymore. Stick with Wyatt, more songs like The River please! Good news Kurstin is out, hopefully means we get a better album than WMWN. |
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Post by tiger40 on Nov 5, 2021 13:40:30 GMT -5
It probably isn't as good as Wall Of Glass as that song was the perfect Liam come back song. But I think the worst song on Why Me Not is probably The Medow. I don't hate it but I just don't think that it's one of Liam's best solo songs. And I think The Meadow is probably the best song on the album, so beautiful, and the weakest is One Of Us. Just shows you how differently we feel about songs. Wall Of Glass was a good single and a good music video. I hope the next album has a strong single and a video too. They should push Liam to do a bit more than just walk around in the videos. Take him out of his comfort zone. If the album is 'a bit mad' make the videos a bit mad too. I love One Of Us and it's one of my favourites on Why Me Why Not and I've always loved it. |
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Post by tiger40 on Nov 5, 2021 13:43:57 GMT -5
It probably isn't as good as Wall Of Glass as that song was the perfect Liam come back song. But I think the worst song on Why Me Not is probably The Medow. I don't hate it but I just don't think that it's one of Liam's best solo songs. Meadow makes me utterly cringe. Sung very well but I really don't like it. That and the syrupy sick- Now that I've found you - I haven't listened to in a couple of years. The Meadow doesn't make me cringe and neither does Now That I've Found You. But they're certainly not two of the best songs on the album. |
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Post by tiger40 on Nov 5, 2021 13:46:26 GMT -5
As for Kurstin didn't he co write Doesn't Have To Be That Way with Liam? Anyway, I like his songs he's written for Liam.
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Post by walkersafc on Nov 5, 2021 19:06:34 GMT -5
I don’t understand these people who are obsessed with wanting Liam to write all the songs. He’s a singer not a songwriter and it’s obvious he thinks of himself that way from his own comments. That’s not to say he can’t write the odd tune but he said himself he isn’t prolific. Liam , Gem and Andy tried coming up with their own songs with Beady Eye and it was obvious they lacked a good songwriter and overall played to crowds of 3,000 or 4,000 and weren’t that popular. Bringing in song writers meant the quality of songs improved and liams popularity went through the roof. Some of it is too pop sounding for me but hearing liams voice on a decent pop song is better than on a shit beady eye song. It’s all about just coming up with some good singles that go down well and playing them on tour with mostly oasis songs. I don’t think liam is arsed about making a classic solo album.
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Post by girllikeabomb on Nov 5, 2021 23:06:14 GMT -5
I don’t understand these people who are obsessed with wanting Liam to write all the songs. He’s a singer not a songwriter and it’s obvious he thinks of himself that way from his own comments. That’s not to say he can’t write the odd tune but he said himself he isn’t prolific. Liam , Gem and Andy tried coming up with their own songs with Beady Eye and it was obvious they lacked a good songwriter and overall played to crowds of 3,000 or 4,000 and weren’t that popular. Bringing in song writers meant the quality of songs improved and liams popularity went through the roof. Some of it is too pop sounding for me but hearing liams voice on a decent pop song is better than on a shit beady eye song. It’s all about just coming up with some good singles that go down well and playing them on tour with mostly oasis songs. I don’t think liam is arsed about making a classic solo album. The one thing I'm not so sure about: "I don’t think liam is arsed about making a classic solo album." I’d say on the contrary. If Liam could make another album in his life that would stand the test of time, I think he's still hungry for that. He’s said a million times that’s what it’s about, lasting beyond your era, and that ambition likely didn't die with Oasis. Think he’d still like it -- but he'd like having it large right now even more than that, especially since it's right there for the taking . He's not going to do it all on his own, anyway, so if it happens in the future it’ll be a collaboration of some kind. And he can enjoy his legendariness now, do the big tours, make the kids happy, and take different kinds of risks later. Lucky position to be in. |
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Post by tiger40 on Nov 6, 2021 13:59:05 GMT -5
I don’t understand these people who are obsessed with wanting Liam to write all the songs. He’s a singer not a songwriter and it’s obvious he thinks of himself that way from his own comments. That’s not to say he can’t write the odd tune but he said himself he isn’t prolific. Liam , Gem and Andy tried coming up with their own songs with Beady Eye and it was obvious they lacked a good songwriter and overall played to crowds of 3,000 or 4,000 and weren’t that popular. Bringing in song writers meant the quality of songs improved and liams popularity went through the roof. Some of it is too pop sounding for me but hearing liams voice on a decent pop song is better than on a shit beady eye song. It’s all about just coming up with some good singles that go down well and playing them on tour with mostly oasis songs. I don’t think liam is arsed about making a classic solo album. We know that Liam is a singer and not a songwriter like you say. But I actually like quite a lot of Beady Eye's songs and I don't think they're shit. But I agree with you that the band didn't really go down too well with the public and that Liam is better on his own. And, as for singles yes you've got to come up with good ones but singles don't really sell that well these days and it's more about albums. |
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Post by lg on Nov 6, 2021 14:16:35 GMT -5
The point is that no one has said that he should write all the songs
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5