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Post by tomlivesforever on Jan 22, 2018 17:49:46 GMT -5
But were they ever in the position of having being written off for dead like Liam? "As You Were" and all that came with it essentially made it OK (for the masses) to like and support Liam Gallagher again in my opinion. It gave him new life. That's the significance of it.
Yes, I'd say so. I think that McCartney, certainly in the years between Press to Play in 1986 and the Flowers in the Dirt tour in 1989, is a pretty comparable example, except the Flowers in the Dirt tour was more massive in comparison to what Liam is doing but that's not surprising. How is it comparable 16 years after Paul's first solo release, when this is Liam debut? |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jan 22, 2018 17:51:02 GMT -5
Gotta be an all-of-the-above situation, no? Good lead single, good live shows, good press, and a good album. Nah, the album is bang avarage. You think so but if you are even going to attempt an ounce of objectivity its hard to argue with thuperthonic on that. |
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Post by sfsorrow on Jan 22, 2018 18:02:54 GMT -5
Yes, I'd say so. I think that McCartney, certainly in the years between Press to Play in 1986 and the Flowers in the Dirt tour in 1989, is a pretty comparable example, except the Flowers in the Dirt tour was more massive in comparison to what Liam is doing but that's not surprising. How is it comparable 16 years after Paul's first solo release, when this is Liam debut? The discussion that I have been is has to do with whether Liam is selling out venues due to the strength of his album. Perhaps I can answer your question if you can explain whether a debut is intrinsically better or worse than any other album. I can perhaps infer instead from this that you are making the claim that Liam is selling out venues, in part because this is his debut, which is a fair point but has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what I have been talking about. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 18:20:03 GMT -5
Ok, for you to all ONLY Noel Gallagher fans, repeat with me: AYW is rubbish and Liam´s success is just because he´s playing Oasis songs written by Noel in his shows JUst one question: Why is not Noel playing this kind of shows? I think his setlists are full of well-known Oasis songs too. And please, don´t tell he´s not interested in... I´d say that Liam is doing some awesome things too...not only plays Wonderwall I never said AYW was rubbish. I haven't heard it and can't comment on it.My only point was that it is genuinely impossible to say that the reason he's selling out shows is because of the strength of his album. Bringing up Noel Gallagher doesn't quite make sense. Some artists like Paul McCartney and Elton John can sell out shows, not based on new material but based on their name and the money that goes into advertising their shows, while others can't. I doubt Ringo could sell out venues the way McCartney does, despite the fact that both were in the same greatest band of all time, and I think that would still be true even if in 2018 Ringo puts out an album that's better than one that McCartney puts out, which at this point is actually a possibility for reasons similar to the Liam/Noel issue. What's the fucking point of arguing here when you haven't even heard the fucking album? Jesus. |
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Post by sfsorrow on Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -5
I never said AYW was rubbish. I haven't heard it and can't comment on it.My only point was that it is genuinely impossible to say that the reason he's selling out shows is because of the strength of his album. Bringing up Noel Gallagher doesn't quite make sense. Some artists like Paul McCartney and Elton John can sell out shows, not based on new material but based on their name and the money that goes into advertising their shows, while others can't. I doubt Ringo could sell out venues the way McCartney does, despite the fact that both were in the same greatest band of all time, and I think that would still be true even if in 2018 Ringo puts out an album that's better than one that McCartney puts out, which at this point is actually a possibility for reasons similar to the Liam/Noel issue. What's the fucking point of arguing here when you haven't even heard the fucking album? Jesus. I'm not making an argument about the album. That's why part of what you bolded was me saying that I couldn't comment on it. I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. |
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Post by batfink30 on Jan 22, 2018 18:33:40 GMT -5
Nah, the album is bang avarage. You think so but if you are even going to attempt an ounce of objectivity its hard to argue with thuperthonic on that. Subjectivity or objectivity? Subjectively, of course IMHO. Objectively are you saying it's because I prefer Noel over Liam? To my ears AYW is avarage, after a few spins it bored me and I found nothing much that I haven't heard a hundred times before .TBH, I haven't had WBTM on repeat much either. There is quite a Liam revival on at the moment and fair play to him for that. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jan 22, 2018 18:34:45 GMT -5
How is it comparable 16 years after Paul's first solo release, when this is Liam debut? The discussion that I have been is has to do with whether Liam is selling out venues due to the strength of his album. Perhaps I can answer your question if you can explain whether a debut is intrinsically better or worse than any other album. I can perhaps infer instead from this that you are making the claim that Liam is selling out venues, in part because this is his debut, which is a fair point but has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what I have been talking about. You've lost me, I have no idea what you were talking about, something to do with comparing any of Macca's or Elton's solo album to Liam debut album. A debut tends to encourage the most interest especially from someone MIA for 4 years. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Jan 22, 2018 18:38:32 GMT -5
You think so but if you are even going to attempt an ounce of objectivity its hard to argue with thuperthonic on that. Subjectivity or objectivity? Subjectively, of course IMHO. Objectively are you saying it's because I prefer Noel over Liam? To my ears AYW is avarage, after a few spins it bored me and I found nothing much that I haven't heard a hundred times before .TBH, I haven't had WBTM on repeat much either. There is quite a Liam revival on at the moment and fair play to him for that. I know you don't like the record or him, its been pretty obvious. What's not hard to do is appreciate that many appear to have connected with the album and a lot of those have bought tickets to see him live. |
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Post by sfsorrow on Jan 22, 2018 19:14:35 GMT -5
The discussion that I have been is has to do with whether Liam is selling out venues due to the strength of his album. Perhaps I can answer your question if you can explain whether a debut is intrinsically better or worse than any other album. I can perhaps infer instead from this that you are making the claim that Liam is selling out venues, in part because this is his debut, which is a fair point but has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what I have been talking about. You've lost me, I have no idea what you were talking about, something to do with comparing any of Macca's or Elton's solo album to Liam debut album. A debut tends to encourage the most interest especially from someone MIA for 4 years. The conversation I'm in began with this point: Without great new songs and a well received album, he wouldn´t be playing this summer for 40,000 people Now, that's an argument that's quite different from, if this weren't Liam's debut, he wouldn't be playing this summer for 40,000 people. |
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Post by janelr on Jan 22, 2018 19:22:10 GMT -5
I guess I'll have to take your word for it. I'm too young to remember if Sir Paul McCartney's reputation ever sunk to the point that everyone thought he was finished in the business and became the butt of jokes. I think that's where Liam rose from and that the success of AYW is what's given him a new lease on life in the business. Had the album not been received well and Liam's reputation not been revived, I don't think he'd sell out big shows even with the Oasis songs. I think a big part of the hype is the overall narrative of his comeback.
If you are interested, I'd highly recommend looking at the Press to Play to Flowers in the Dirt era. The more I think of it, the more comparable the two scenarios are. Actually go back a bit further to the Give My Regards to Broadstreet movie that McCartney made in 1984. The movie was widely derided by critics. It was an enormous failure both critically and commercially. The most generous reviews typically saw it as being the product of a former trend-setter now being out of step with the times. Not quoting the whole thing, and thank you, that's all very interesting. But for now, I can only speak on Liam and I do believe the success of AYW pulled him and his image out of the dumpster, which was necessary before he could sell out any large venues. Whatever McCartney's career disappointments were, I doubt he was ever labeled the talentless Beatle who got carried to success on the back of his bandmate. That's not a barrel he's ever been in. But pre 2017, all but the most ardent Liam fans thought his voice was done for and that he needed Noel. No way he's selling out arenas on his own. But AYW has energized LG and created a path towards a different narrative -- one that includes a younger generation who think the geezer's pretty cool. Sure, Oasis plays a big part in Liam's legacy as a rock star...but I think that's something he needed to reclaim and AYW and all that's come with it (well received interviews and live shows, good reviews, award nominations, etc.) has done that, in my opinion, and should be given it's just dues.
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Post by sfsorrow on Jan 22, 2018 20:30:36 GMT -5
If you are interested, I'd highly recommend looking at the Press to Play to Flowers in the Dirt era. The more I think of it, the more comparable the two scenarios are. Actually go back a bit further to the Give My Regards to Broadstreet movie that McCartney made in 1984. The movie was widely derided by critics. It was an enormous failure both critically and commercially. The most generous reviews typically saw it as being the product of a former trend-setter now being out of step with the times. Not quoting the whole thing, and thank you, that's all very interesting. But for now, I can only speak on Liam and I do believe the success of AYW pulled him and his image out of the dumpster, which was necessary before he could sell out any large venues. Whatever McCartney's career disappointments were, I doubt he was ever labeled the talentless Beatle who got carried to success on the back of his bandmate. That's not a barrel he's ever been in. But pre 2017, all but the most ardent Liam fans thought his voice was done for and that he needed Noel. No way he's selling out arenas on his own. But AYW has energized LG and created a path towards a different narrative -- one that includes a younger generation who think the geezer's pretty cool. Sure, Oasis plays a big part in Liam's legacy as a rock star...but I think that's something he needed to reclaim and AYW and all that's come with it (well received interviews and live shows, good reviews, award nominations, etc.) has done that, in my opinion, and should be given it's just dues.
I can appreciate your point. While you're not going to believe this, I genuinely don't mean to be argumentative but I do want to provide one quotation from McCartney that hopefully reinforces my point that there is a pretty interesting comparison at work here: "The minute John died, there started to be a revisionism. There were some strange quotes like, 'John was the only one in the Beatles.' Or 'Paul just booked the studio.' 'John was Mozart; Paul was Salieri.' I tried to ignore it, but it built into an insecurity." |
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Post by batfink30 on Jan 22, 2018 22:43:11 GMT -5
Subjectivity or objectivity? Subjectively, of course IMHO. Objectively are you saying it's because I prefer Noel over Liam? To my ears AYW is avarage, after a few spins it bored me and I found nothing much that I haven't heard a hundred times before .TBH, I haven't had WBTM on repeat much either. There is quite a Liam revival on at the moment and fair play to him for that. I know you don't like the record or him, its been pretty obvious. What's not hard to do is appreciate that many appear to have connected with the album and a lot of those have bought tickets to see him live. Yeah, there's a definite Liam resurgence and good on him. I'm just saying music quality wise IMHO there's nothing new or amazing or groundbreaking on AYW. It's all standard stuff. Personally, I'm bored with the 90s rehashing, it was a great period to live through but it would be nice to hear something new. In saying that, there's seems new breed of young(and old) Oasis/Liam fans that want it and fair enough. The whole Liam/Noel thing is so incredibly mind numbingly stupid anyway. |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 22, 2018 23:07:16 GMT -5
Is Liam getting the crowds for AYW?
I doubt it. People are turning up because the voice of Oasis is singing a hefty amount of Oasis songs. Just saying.
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Post by marqueemoon on Jan 22, 2018 23:58:49 GMT -5
Gotta be an all-of-the-above situation, no? Good lead single, good live shows, good press, and a good album. This is the correct answer. Baffles the mind that some people are trying to downplay As You Were, the ninth best selling album in the UK last year that has been in the top twenty every week since its release. Liam could play all the Oasis tunes he wants, but he wouldn't be selling out these big venues behind a Beady Eye album. |
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Post by spaneli on Jan 23, 2018 0:04:32 GMT -5
Gotta be an all-of-the-above situation, no? Good lead single, good live shows, good press, and a good album. I think you're talking too much sense for this thread. Leave!  |
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Post by fiordiligi on Jan 23, 2018 3:32:32 GMT -5
Gotta be an all-of-the-above situation, no? Good lead single, good live shows, good press, and a good album. YES! |
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Post by glio on Jan 23, 2018 3:45:41 GMT -5
A lot of teenage girls and soccer moms bought As You Were for cheeseball songs like 'Wall of Glass' and 'For What It's Worth'.... Thanks. and noel didnt try to get that with Holy Mountain? Fucking cheesiest song ever. and he kept banging on about how his wife and her mates loved it |
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Post by janedoe on Jan 23, 2018 4:27:53 GMT -5
A lot of teenage girls and soccer moms bought As You Were for cheeseball songs like 'Wall of Glass' and 'For What It's Worth'.... Thanks. and noel didnt try to get that with Holy Mountain? Fucking cheesiest song ever. and he kept banging on about how his wife and her mates loved it Big difference for the gurls listening to Liam on headphones versus listening to Noel. Liam is awesome |
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Post by bt95 on Jan 23, 2018 5:02:28 GMT -5
Is Liam getting the crowds for AYW? I doubt it. People are turning up because the voice of Oasis is singing a hefty amount of Oasis songs. Just saying. This is pretty much the point I was trying to make yesterday. It's no slate on Liam or AYW, which is as good of a comeback record we could have hoped for, but the main draw isn't AYW. AYW has simply given him the platform - and a very good platform at that - to get the gigs back up and give the chance to a load of teenagers and people in their early 20s like myself who were at tops 14/15 when Oasis broke up to see their idol. |
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Post by MONO on Jan 23, 2018 5:05:59 GMT -5
I'm not making an argument about the album. That's why part of what you bolded was me saying that I couldn't comment on it. I'm not entirely sure what the issue is. Yeah, we know your silly point that he should have joined another classic band or played cover songs.... |
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Post by Let It🩸 on Jan 23, 2018 5:31:34 GMT -5
A lot of teenage girls and soccer moms bought As You Were for cheeseball songs like 'Wall of Glass' and 'For What It's Worth'.... Thanks. and noel didnt try to get that with Holy Mountain? Fucking cheesiest song ever. and he kept banging on about how his wife and her mates loved it ¿Can we at least that WSYX ABC6 traffic reporter Katie McKee looks smoking hot today? Thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 5:51:38 GMT -5
I think it's a factor of both. Would Beady Eye have sold out Finsbury Park if they would have played Oasis songs? Would Noel have played the O2 if he only played NGHFB songs? I don't think so.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 6:32:13 GMT -5
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Post by ninestonecowboy on Jan 23, 2018 12:14:43 GMT -5
More accessible music and the truth is that people have always gravitated towards Liam more. I know a lot of people think he's a dick, but then most of those people think Noel is too, non oasis fans that is.
When you consider that Oasis influenced a lot of people in the way they dress, act, talk etc.. you're really talking about Liam mostly. Most young lads into Oasis wanted to be Liam, not Noel, that's just the facts. So when these fans want their Oasis fix, they're probably going to gravitate towards Liam, the voice and the more accessible instant tunes. 99% of people couldn't care less whether they're co-written or not.
On name alone and talent aside, Liam Gallagher carries more weight than Noel Gallagher amongst the general public and it's that general casual music listener that gets you 100k sales in a week. Oh and his PR has been pretty much spot on, which is a huge reason too.
Put all those ingredients together positively and you will find Liam will generally outsell Noel. People buy into the name and the PR surrounding the name.
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