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Post by globe on May 27, 2018 2:11:50 GMT -5
My opinion has really changed in recent years on abortion. I used to be strictly pro-choice, but as I’ve gotten older, I can totally understand where pro-life people come from. The whole “clump of cells” idea is such a creepy way to look at human life. I’ll probably just be told I’m a white American male who doesn’t understand what women go through, but abortion is a very creepy thing So you do understand what women go through then? |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 9:44:19 GMT -5
My opinion has really changed in recent years on abortion. I used to be strictly pro-choice, but as I’ve gotten older, I can totally understand where pro-life people come from. The whole “clump of cells” idea is such a creepy way to look at human life. I’ll probably just be told I’m a white American male who doesn’t understand what women go through, but abortion is a very creepy thing So you do understand what women go through then? Go through what exactly? |
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Post by globe on May 27, 2018 10:20:34 GMT -5
So you do understand what women go through then? Go through what exactly? Here he goes again - canna answer a question so asks one back in reply. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 10:25:50 GMT -5
Here he goes again - canna answer a question so asks one back in reply. You asked an incredibly vague question. What do you mean, "So you do understand what women go through then?" Can you say anything to me without being completely shitty to me because you don't agree with me? Do you have any ability to convey your point of view without acting like a total asshole? |
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Post by globe on May 27, 2018 10:27:16 GMT -5
Here he goes again - canna answer a question so asks one back in reply. You asked an incredibly vague question. What do you mean, "So you do understand what women go through then?" Can you say anything to me without being completely shitty to me because you don't agree with me? Do you have any ability to convey your point of view without acting like a total asshole? I only act like an arsehole to horrible wankers like yourself mate. Go fuck yourself, I doubt any woman will. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 10:29:12 GMT -5
You asked an incredibly vague question. What do you mean, "So you do understand what women go through then?" Can you say anything to me without being completely shitty to me because you don't agree with me? Do you have any ability to convey your point of view without acting like a total asshole? I only act like an arsehole to horrible wankers like yourself mate. Go fuck yourself, I doubt any woman will. And the same to you, you giant baby. Get a grip, not everyone will agree with you |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 12:00:57 GMT -5
It’s quite embarrasing how many people on this forum resort straight to insults when having a debate. The amount of people who act/talk like the Gallagher brothers circa 1996 makes me cringe.
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Post by crisppacket on May 27, 2018 12:11:10 GMT -5
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Post by mimmihopps on May 27, 2018 12:22:25 GMT -5
Bravo to all the women in Ireland who voted Yes yesterday.
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 13:37:37 GMT -5
Hear hear. And the men, too. Would really appreciate your opinion (as well as other people on here who I’ve disagreed with in the past) on this. It’s been a struggle of mine over the past few years. When does a human being actually become “a human being?” I used to think it was much later into the pregnancy, when the child could feel pain in the womb. But now that I’ve gotten older, the idea of ending what some people call “the potential for life,” really disturbing. Sometimes I think that there needs to be a standard set for what life actually is, and if abortions should be this accessible. Different circumstances of course raise different questions, but the cheering and support for what people call “women’s rights” has become very creepy to me. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 15:31:28 GMT -5
Would really appreciate your opinion (as well as other people on here who I’ve disagreed with in the past) on this. It’s been a struggle of mine over the past few years. When does a human being actually become “a human being?” I used to think it was much later into the pregnancy, when the child could feel pain in the womb. But now that I’ve gotten older, the idea of ending what some people call “the potential for life,” really disturbing. Sometimes I think that there needs to be a standard set for what life actually is, and if abortions should be this accessible. Different circumstances of course raise different questions, but the cheering and support for what people call “women’s rights” has become very creepy to me. I'll give you my reply but I'm not going to debate. This posting volleyball game is tedious and inefficient. As to the subject at hand, it matters not one iota when *I* think life begins. I support a woman's reproductive rights which means it's up to her and only her to decide what to do. Her body, her choice, full stop. I’d argue there’s a second life involved in this situation. That’s the part I can’t get passed. Ending a life is murder, and I find people’s arguements against this concept to be more emotional than rational. |
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Post by RocketMan on May 27, 2018 16:04:23 GMT -5
I'll give you my reply but I'm not going to debate. This posting volleyball game is tedious and inefficient. As to the subject at hand, it matters not one iota when *I* think life begins. I support a woman's reproductive rights which means it's up to her and only her to decide what to do. Her body, her choice, full stop. I’d argue there’s a second life involved in this situation. That’s the part I can’t get passed. Ending a life is murder, and I find people’s arguements against this concept to be more emotional than rational. i find that its very common for many men to argue the way you just did |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 16:10:16 GMT -5
I’d argue there’s a second life involved in this situation. That’s the part I can’t get passed. Ending a life is murder, and I find people’s arguements against this concept to be more emotional than rational. i find that its very common for many men to argue the way you just did And what are you implying by saying this? |
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Post by RocketMan on May 27, 2018 16:44:12 GMT -5
i find that its very common for many men to argue the way you just did And what are you implying by saying this? that many men dont care about the womens well being but rather trying to argue a 'scientific point' that an embryo up to 12 weeks is already a human being and therefore abortion is murder which is BS. i mean we pretty much know when life begins during a pregnancy. so to me a lot of the time its pure ignorance and lack of empathy by men when it comes to abortion. |
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Post by globe on May 27, 2018 16:45:59 GMT -5
Hear hear. And the men, too. Would really appreciate your opinion (as well as other people on here who I’ve disagreed with in the past) on this. It’s been a struggle of mine over the past few years. When does a human being actually become “a human being?” I used to think it was much later into the pregnancy, when the child could feel pain in the womb. But now that I’ve gotten older, the idea of ending what some people call “the potential for life,” really disturbing. Sometimes I think that there needs to be a standard set for what life actually is, and if abortions should be this accessible. Different circumstances of course raise different questions, but the cheering and support for what people call “women’s rights” has become very creepy to me. “Pro-life” but thinks people should have the right to own machine guns. You are one confused fella. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 17:02:57 GMT -5
Would really appreciate your opinion (as well as other people on here who I’ve disagreed with in the past) on this. It’s been a struggle of mine over the past few years. When does a human being actually become “a human being?” I used to think it was much later into the pregnancy, when the child could feel pain in the womb. But now that I’ve gotten older, the idea of ending what some people call “the potential for life,” really disturbing. Sometimes I think that there needs to be a standard set for what life actually is, and if abortions should be this accessible. Different circumstances of course raise different questions, but the cheering and support for what people call “women’s rights” has become very creepy to me. “Pro-life” but thinks people should have the right to own machine guns. You are one confused fella. That sentence literally makes no sense. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 17:08:24 GMT -5
And what are you implying by saying this? that many men dont care about the womens well being but rather trying to argue a 'scientific point' that an embryo up to 12 weeks is already a human being and therefore abortion is murder which is BS. i mean we pretty much know when life begins during a pregnancy. so to me a lot of the time its pure ignorance and lack of empathy by men when it comes to abortion. Why would you assume I don't care about the women in this situation? My issue is with how accepting and boastful some people are of abortions. It's an incredibly devastating, emotional thing to go through (not just for the woman involved, but hey, who needs the man's input right? After all, it should only be up to the woman right?) I find that quite disturbing. I just don't find the pro-choice argument to have much merit, and is more of an emotional argument. I think to strip away the fact that there is in fact a human being growing inside you, and reducing it to a "potential for life" is quite scary. I don't like that mindset. It's an age old thing to say but I think if people just practiced safer sex, many abortions could be avoided. It's just hard for me to take away all of the humanity from the child. It's very cold |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 17:20:32 GMT -5
Cold also is the murder of children by domestic terrorists using military grade weaponry. What does that have to do with the topic of abortion? |
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Post by WirralRiddler on May 27, 2018 17:49:17 GMT -5
I'll give you my reply but I'm not going to debate. This posting volleyball game is tedious and inefficient. As to the subject at hand, it matters not one iota when *I* think life begins. I support a woman's reproductive rights which means it's up to her and only her to decide what to do. Her body, her choice, full stop. I’d argue there’s a second life involved in this situation. That’s the part I can’t get passed. Ending a life is murder, and I find people’s arguements against this concept to be more emotional than rational. I actually think the opposite on this topic, the emotional argument is pro life in my opinion. Pro choice seems the most rational to me all things considered. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 17:53:22 GMT -5
I’d argue there’s a second life involved in this situation. That’s the part I can’t get passed. Ending a life is murder, and I find people’s arguements against this concept to be more emotional than rational. I actually think the opposite on this topic, the emotional argument is pro life in my opinion. Pro choice seems the most rational to me all things considered. Is the emotional aspect of the pro-life argument you're talking about the fact that people do not want children to be murdered before they are born? Sure, you can call that an emotional argument, but we believe murder isn't right in any other sense, so why is abortion okay? I can't understand the gap in logic there. When I say that the pro-choice argument is emotional, I'm talking about how people say, "My body, my choice. Nobody elses." But there is another life involved who don't get there choice. Would you agree with that? |
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Post by mancraider on May 27, 2018 18:13:32 GMT -5
I see we've just moved onto a different subject with the same people playing the same roles?
FWIW I think an unborn child is 'alive' when it is capable of sustaining itself outside the womb. Approx 26 weeks i beleive. Until that point it is dependant on the mother for life and is therefore a part of the woman's body.
Thats not to say I advocate abortion for convenience at that late stage. I'm sure no one doubts that the emotional damage that can last years even if you are convinced it's right at the time. But it is wrong for men to believe they have the right to control what happens to a woman's body. I've got three kids and nothing prepares you for seeing the physical trauma that carrying a child and giving birth cause to the female body. And that's just watching 😨. Any man that thinks he should be making those decisions for a woman is wrong imo.
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 18:20:16 GMT -5
I see we've just moved onto a different subject with the same people playing the same roles? FWIW I think an unborn child is 'alive' when it is capable of sustaining itself outside the womb. Approx 26 weeks i beleive. Until that point it is dependant on the mother for life and is therefore a part of the woman's body. Thats not to say I advocate abortion for convenience at that late stage. I'm sure no one doubts that the emotional damage that can last years even if you are convinced it's right at the time. But it is wrong for men to believe they have the right to control what happens to a woman's body. I've got three kids and nothing prepares you for seeing the physical trauma that carrying a child and giving birth cause to the female body. And that's just watching 😨. Any man that thinks he should be making those decisions for a woman is wrong imo. So before those 26 weeks, that child can be murdered without their consent to you, and you're perfectly fine with that? See, that's the moral dilemna I have. I can't stomach that. I used to be able to. I used to say, "it's a woman's choice, and that's it." But that's too simplistic. There is another life here that has no say. I can't shake that out of my head anymore. And to say men (or anybody else in the situation besides the pregnant woman) have no say in the issue is just baffling. Why do so many unwanted pregnancies still happen, with so many alternatives to pregnancy? Is there no personal responsible put on these women anymore? Why are questions like these so vilified and considered misogynistic, when women turn around and say the equivalant, "I don't care what you have to say. It's my choice." How can people justify murder in their heads? |
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Post by mancraider on May 27, 2018 18:41:07 GMT -5
I see we've just moved onto a different subject with the same people playing the same roles? FWIW I think an unborn child is 'alive' when it is capable of sustaining itself outside the womb. Approx 26 weeks i beleive. Until that point it is dependant on the mother for life and is therefore a part of the woman's body. Thats not to say I advocate abortion for convenience at that late stage. I'm sure no one doubts that the emotional damage that can last years even if you are convinced it's right at the time. But it is wrong for men to believe they have the right to control what happens to a woman's body. I've got three kids and nothing prepares you for seeing the physical trauma that carrying a child and giving birth cause to the female body. And that's just watching 😨. Any man that thinks he should be making those decisions for a woman is wrong imo. So before those 26 weeks, that child can be murdered without their consent to you, and you're perfectly fine with that? See, that's the moral dilemna I have. I can't stomach that. I used to be able to. I used to say, "it's a woman's choice, and that's it." But that's too simplistic. There is another life here that has no say. I can't shake that out of my head anymore. And to say men (or anybody else in the situation besides the pregnant woman) have no say in the issue is just baffling. Why do so many unwanted pregnancies still happen, with so many alternatives to pregnancy? Is there no personal responsible put on these women anymore? Why are questions like these so vilified and considered misogynistic, when women turn around and say the equivalant, "I don't care what you have to say. It's my choice." How can people justify murder in their heads? Life's not black and white though is it? I don't have to be perfectly fine with it or even accept it is morally ok to acknowledge that as a man I shouldn't impose my will on a woman over a situation that I'll never be capable of experiencing. Most cases of abortion are for medical reasons or wanted by both parties. The vote in Ireland is a victory for common sense over a religious dogma that has caused misery for many for far too long. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 18:42:40 GMT -5
Apparently the Earth can only support ~10 billion people in terms of food. Currently a fair bit past 7 billion, and there are estimates of the global population reaching that limit by the end of the century.
Once it reaches that stage, or some time beforehand (assuming no breakthroughs out of leftfield like space colonisation or some other artificial way of extending the capacity of this planet), I think that's when some really difficult decisions will need to get made. Ones where the most morally acceptable outcome out of the options still isn't easily palatable.
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 18:45:53 GMT -5
So before those 26 weeks, that child can be murdered without their consent to you, and you're perfectly fine with that? See, that's the moral dilemna I have. I can't stomach that. I used to be able to. I used to say, "it's a woman's choice, and that's it." But that's too simplistic. There is another life here that has no say. I can't shake that out of my head anymore. And to say men (or anybody else in the situation besides the pregnant woman) have no say in the issue is just baffling. Why do so many unwanted pregnancies still happen, with so many alternatives to pregnancy? Is there no personal responsible put on these women anymore? Why are questions like these so vilified and considered misogynistic, when women turn around and say the equivalant, "I don't care what you have to say. It's my choice." How can people justify murder in their heads? Life's not black and white though is it? I don't have to be perfectly fine with it or even accept it is morally ok to acknowledge that as a man I shouldn't impose my will on a woman over a situation that I'll never be capable of experiencing. Most cases of abortion are for medical reasons or wanted by both parties. The vote in Ireland is a victory for common sense over a religious dogma that has caused misery for many for far too long. Why shouldn't men be able to be apart of the discussion? Saying men shouldn't be included is ridiculous, and downright sexist. And sure, life isn't black and white, but all civilized societies can agree that murder is wrong. But for some reason, abortion is seen as a victory for women's rights. I just don't understand how that adds up. It's a topic that men are told they are not a part of, when in actuality, they are a part of it, right from the moment the child was created. There is such a thing as an "unborn child", and the fact that many people just dismiss that as religious dogma is very scary to me |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5