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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 18:49:15 GMT -5
Apparently the Earth can only support ~10 billion people in terms of food. Currently a fair bit past 7 billion, and there are estimates of the global population reaching that limit by the end of the century. Once it reaches that stage, or some time beforehand (assuming no breakthroughs out of leftfield like space colonisation or some other artificial way of extending the capacity of this planet), I think that's when some really difficult decisions will need to get made. Ones where the most morally acceptable outcome out of the options still isn't easily palatable. Are you saying that because of this prediction (that may or may not come true), you justify abortion? And also justify abortion in any situation? If you get pregnant and you decide to murder the child (and there are no health issues towards you or the child), is that morally justifiable to you? |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 18:58:37 GMT -5
As long as we're unnecessarily slaughtering animals I don't feel like I could judge someone ending a life of a embryo/fetus that doesn't feel any pain and hasn't developed enough to survive in this world on its own.
Yeah I understand if someone feels abortion is morally questionable but I've realised so much worse things are happening in this world that the moral question of abortion is the least of my worries tbh.
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:03:05 GMT -5
As long as we're unnecessarily slaughtering animals I don't feel like I could judge someone ending a life of a embryo/fetus that doesn't feel any pain and hasn't developed enough to survive in this world on its own. Yeah I understand if someone feels abortion is morally questionable but I've realised so much worse things are happening in this world that the moral question of abortion is the least of my worries tbh. Equating human life to animals? That's a dark path of thinking to go down. Also, we eat animals. And only some of them. |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 19:03:13 GMT -5
Life's not black and white though is it? I don't have to be perfectly fine with it or even accept it is morally ok to acknowledge that as a man I shouldn't impose my will on a woman over a situation that I'll never be capable of experiencing. Most cases of abortion are for medical reasons or wanted by both parties. The vote in Ireland is a victory for common sense over a religious dogma that has caused misery for many for far too long. Why shouldn't men be able to be apart of the discussion? Saying men shouldn't be included is ridiculous, and downright sexist. And sure, life isn't black and white, but all civilized societies can agree that murder is wrong. But for some reason, abortion is seen as a victory for women's rights. I just don't understand how that adds up. It's a topic that men are told they are not a part of, when in actuality, they are a part of it, right from the moment the child was created. There is such a thing as an "unborn child", and the fact that many people just dismiss that as religious dogma is very scary to me What if the child is a result of rape? What if the "woman" is an underage child? What if there are medical reasons that put the woman and/or child in danger? What if the guy fucks off and the woman can't afford having a kid? What if she just doesn't want it and contraception failed? It's not just "kill an unborn child" There are many situations that would require a pregnancy to be terminated and it should always be the woman's choice |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:10:25 GMT -5
Why shouldn't men be able to be apart of the discussion? Saying men shouldn't be included is ridiculous, and downright sexist. And sure, life isn't black and white, but all civilized societies can agree that murder is wrong. But for some reason, abortion is seen as a victory for women's rights. I just don't understand how that adds up. It's a topic that men are told they are not a part of, when in actuality, they are a part of it, right from the moment the child was created. There is such a thing as an "unborn child", and the fact that many people just dismiss that as religious dogma is very scary to me What if the child is a result of rape? What if the "woman" is an underage child? What if there are medical reasons that put the woman and/or child in danger? What if the guy fucks off and the woman can't afford having a kid? What if she just doesn't want it and contraception failed? It's not just "kill an unborn child" There are many situations that would require a pregnancy to be terminated and it should always be the woman's choice Rape and medical reasons that put the woman/child in danger are the only reasons that make any sense. All of the other situations need to be taken into account before having sex. And it's not terminating a pregnancy, it's murdering a child. You need to call it what it actually is. |
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Post by mancraider on May 27, 2018 19:11:19 GMT -5
Life's not black and white though is it? I don't have to be perfectly fine with it or even accept it is morally ok to acknowledge that as a man I shouldn't impose my will on a woman over a situation that I'll never be capable of experiencing. Most cases of abortion are for medical reasons or wanted by both parties. The vote in Ireland is a victory for common sense over a religious dogma that has caused misery for many for far too long. Why shouldn't men be able to be apart of the discussion? Saying men shouldn't be included is ridiculous, and downright sexist. And sure, life isn't black and white, but all civilized societies can agree that murder is wrong. But for some reason, abortion is seen as a victory for women's rights. I just don't understand how that adds up. It's a topic that men are told they are not a part of, when in actuality, they are a part of it, right from the moment the child was created. There is such a thing as an "unborn child", and the fact that many people just dismiss that as religious dogma is very scary to me Of course men have a part in the discussion. The part with their partner in private when discussing whether an abortion is the right decision for them. I've got enough to deal with in my own life without presuming to be the moral judge over every other person in the world. The right to choose isn't about denying men a voice it's about removing the control over woman's bodies from a paternalistic political and religious culture and handing it back to the individual. If this was an issue that involved men and it was women that were trying to impose their will I'm sure you'd be the first to be crying about how unfair it was. I see your debating skills haven't improved. I'm a murderer and sexist because my view differs from yours? If you aren't an idiot you do a very good impression of one. |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 19:15:40 GMT -5
What if the child is a result of rape? What if the "woman" is an underage child? What if there are medical reasons that put the woman and/or child in danger? What if the guy fucks off and the woman can't afford having a kid? What if she just doesn't want it and contraception failed? It's not just "kill an unborn child" There are many situations that would require a pregnancy to be terminated and it should always be the woman's choice Rape and medical reasons that put the woman/child in danger are the only reasons that make any sense. All of the other situations need to be taken into account before having sex. And it's not terminating a pregnancy, it's murdering a child. You need to call it what it actually is. It's not a child, it's a fetus. It's not even formed As many mentioned already, guns murder people in schools, nightclubs and concerts and lawmakers don't even care |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:15:59 GMT -5
Why shouldn't men be able to be apart of the discussion? Saying men shouldn't be included is ridiculous, and downright sexist. And sure, life isn't black and white, but all civilized societies can agree that murder is wrong. But for some reason, abortion is seen as a victory for women's rights. I just don't understand how that adds up. It's a topic that men are told they are not a part of, when in actuality, they are a part of it, right from the moment the child was created. There is such a thing as an "unborn child", and the fact that many people just dismiss that as religious dogma is very scary to me Of course men have a part in the discussion. The part with their partner in private when discussing whether an abortion is the right decision for them. I've got enough to deal with in my own life without presuming to be the moral judge over every other person in the world. The right to choose isn't about denying men a voice it's about removing the control over woman's bodies from a paternalistic political and religious culture and handing it back to the individual. If this was an issue that involved men and it was women that were trying to impose their will I'm sure you'd be the first to be crying about how unfair it was. I see your debating skills haven't improved. I'm a murderer and sexist because my view differs from yours? If you aren't an idiot you do a very good impression of one. I never said you were a murderer or sexist, but continue to call me an idiot. If my debate skills suck, so do yours, idiot. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 19:16:41 GMT -5
Apparently the Earth can only support ~10 billion people in terms of food. Currently a fair bit past 7 billion, and there are estimates of the global population reaching that limit by the end of the century. Once it reaches that stage, or some time beforehand (assuming no breakthroughs out of leftfield like space colonisation or some other artificial way of extending the capacity of this planet), I think that's when some really difficult decisions will need to get made. Ones where the most morally acceptable outcome out of the options still isn't easily palatable. Are you saying that because of this prediction (that may or may not come true), you justify abortion? And also justify abortion in any situation? If you get pregnant and you decide to murder the child (and there are no health issues towards you or the child), is that morally justifiable to you? Even though you have phrased your response as questions, it feels slightly like having words put in my mouth. I have not expressed any opinions except for that I think if the world became overpopulated, there would be no easy solutions, Have thought about overpopulation before on occasion, the discussion on here re: abortion just brought it to mind. Abortion itself -- not keen on engaging in conversation about it (and so I won't). I find life slightly difficult to enjoy a lot of the time, which skews my perspective a fair bit, and so my views probably would not be particularly illuminating to this conversation. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:16:54 GMT -5
Rape and medical reasons that put the woman/child in danger are the only reasons that make any sense. All of the other situations need to be taken into account before having sex. And it's not terminating a pregnancy, it's murdering a child. You need to call it what it actually is. It's not a child, it's a fetus. It's not even formed As many mentioned already, guns murder people in schools, nightclubs and concerts and lawmakers don't even care It is a child. You can deny it, try to justify it, but it is a child. And what do guns have to do with this topic? Stay on topic |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 19:20:37 GMT -5
It's not a child, it's a fetus. It's not even formed As many mentioned already, guns murder people in schools, nightclubs and concerts and lawmakers don't even care It is a child. You can deny it, try to justify it, but it is a child. And what do guns have to do with this topic? Stay on topic You are calling all cases of abortion "murder" I disagreed and stated my views Also, I'm mentioning events in life that are actually murder. It's perfectly on topic |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:23:46 GMT -5
It is a child. You can deny it, try to justify it, but it is a child. And what do guns have to do with this topic? Stay on topic You are calling all cases of abortion "murder" I disagreed and stated my views Also, I'm mentioning events in life that are actually murder. It's perfectly on topic You know what, you're right. An unborn child who is murdered and a child in a school who is murdered are quite similar. But you wouldn't agree with that, would you? |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 19:33:18 GMT -5
You are calling all cases of abortion "murder" I disagreed and stated my views Also, I'm mentioning events in life that are actually murder. It's perfectly on topic You know what, you're right. An unborn child who is murdered and a child in a school who is murdered are quite similar. But you wouldn't agree with that, would you? An unborn child being murdered would be a case when a woman is like seven months pregnant and gets shot or attacked and loses the child. In that case, Yes they are similar |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:38:37 GMT -5
You know what, you're right. An unborn child who is murdered and a child in a school who is murdered are quite similar. But you wouldn't agree with that, would you? An unborn child being murdered would be a case when a woman is like seven months pregnant and gets shot or attacked and loses the child. In that case, Yes they are similar But when the woman does it to her own unborn child, it's not murder? How can you justify that in your mind? |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 19:41:44 GMT -5
An unborn child being murdered would be a case when a woman is like seven months pregnant and gets shot or attacked and loses the child. In that case, Yes they are similar But when the woman does it to her own unborn child, it's not murder? How can you justify that in your mind? There are many situations to be considered, I already posted about that |
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Post by janedoe on May 27, 2018 19:43:11 GMT -5
Why shouldn't men be able to be apart of the discussion? Saying men shouldn't be included is ridiculous, and downright sexist. And sure, life isn't black and white, but all civilized societies can agree that murder is wrong. But for some reason, abortion is seen as a victory for women's rights. I just don't understand how that adds up. It's a topic that men are told they are not a part of, when in actuality, they are a part of it, right from the moment the child was created. There is such a thing as an "unborn child", and the fact that many people just dismiss that as religious dogma is very scary to me What if the child is a result of rape? What if the "woman" is an underage child? What if there are medical reasons that put the woman and/or child in danger? What if the guy fucks off and the woman can't afford having a kid? What if she just doesn't want it and contraception failed? It's not just "kill an unborn child" There are many situations that would require a pregnancy to be terminated and it should always be the woman's choice The 8th amendment resulted in some truly barbaric cases. In most countries if a doctor finds that a foetus has abnormalities that are unsurvivable after birth, the mother is advised, with a termination offered. Because of the 8th amendment, the foetus had a right to live - and while inside the mother, it would live. So the mother had no choice but to carry and give birth to a baby that would die shortly afterwards. Brain dead expectant mothers were kept on life support against their family's wishes. Negative impact on the mother's health was not a valid reason to terminate a pregnancy. Savita Halappanavar's death is an example of this rule - she *might* have survived sepsis, so the law did not permit termination. Internationally there were questions about the law's impact on the human rights of women. It was not a right to life, it was a right to birth. |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:45:35 GMT -5
But when the woman does it to her own unborn child, it's not murder? How can you justify that in your mind? There are many situations to be considered, I already posted about that No, you just can't justify it (outside of rape or health reasons.) Just because you have an accident and get pregnant and don't want the child, that's morally justifiable to you? How? How is that possible? Because it's YOUR body? What about the child? Why does the child's rights get stripped away? Let me turn the tables back on you. If all children who have been murdered by guns in schools were just aborted instead, would you think they'd be better off? |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 19:52:42 GMT -5
There are many situations to be considered, I already posted about that No, you just can't justify it (outside of rape or health reasons.) Just because you have an accident and get pregnant and don't want the child, that's morally justifiable to you? How? How is that possible? Because it's YOUR body? What about the child? Why does the child's rights get stripped away? Let me turn the tables back on you. If all children who have been murdered by guns in schools were just aborted instead, would you think they'd be better off? That's a completely ridiculous hypothetical |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 19:56:50 GMT -5
No, you just can't justify it (outside of rape or health reasons.) Just because you have an accident and get pregnant and don't want the child, that's morally justifiable to you? How? How is that possible? Because it's YOUR body? What about the child? Why does the child's rights get stripped away? Let me turn the tables back on you. If all children who have been murdered by guns in schools were just aborted instead, would you think they'd be better off? That's a completely ridiculous hypothetical So is the hypothetical idea of murdering a child because you and your partner were irresponsible during sex. But hey, I’m a man, what do I know right? It’s not my place apparently. |
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Post by janedoe on May 27, 2018 19:58:46 GMT -5
“People of my age have let themselves go, they’re fat, balding idiots with fading tattoos. They sit in their garage and write shite like ‘Sign of the Times’ for Harry Styles. Which, quite frankly, my cat could have written in about 10 minutes!I don’t mind the song, my wife was falling over herself, ‘Have you heard Harry Styles’ new song? It’s like Prince’, I was like, ‘Without even hearing it, I can assure you it’s not like Prince!'” Cats are awesome |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 20:13:50 GMT -5
That's a completely ridiculous hypothetical So is the hypothetical idea of murdering a child because you and your partner were irresponsible during sex. But hey, I’m a man, what do I know right? It’s not my place apparently. That wasn't one of the situations I mentioned. But in any case you should discuss it with your partner, it isn't anybody else's business, certainly not some dudes making laws based on old morals or certain religion beliefs |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 20:17:42 GMT -5
So is the hypothetical idea of murdering a child because you and your partner were irresponsible during sex. But hey, I’m a man, what do I know right? It’s not my place apparently. That wasn't one of the situations I mentioned. But in any case you should discuss it with your partner, it isn't anybody else's business, certainly not some dudes making laws based on old morals or certain religion beliefs “What if she just doesn't want it and contraception failed?” That’s exactly what you said. You just can’t justify it. I do believe people should make laws on how many abortions a person can receive, and why they are doing it. There are more alternatives than just murdering the child. More responsibility should be put on the woman, they should not be absolved of it because “it’s their body.” That’s a cop out. |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 20:21:32 GMT -5
That wasn't one of the situations I mentioned. But in any case you should discuss it with your partner, it isn't anybody else's business, certainly not some dudes making laws based on old morals or certain religion beliefs “What if she just doesn't want it and contraception failed?” That’s exactly what you said. You just can’t justify it. I do believe people should make laws on how many abortions a person can receive, and why they are doing it. There are more alternatives than just murdering the child. More responsibility should be put on the woman, they should not be absolved of it because “it’s their body.” That’s a cop out. You do know condoms aren't 100% effective, right? I'm having flashbacks to a Friends episode here... |
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Post by jordan71421 on May 27, 2018 20:23:23 GMT -5
“What if she just doesn't want it and contraception failed?” That’s exactly what you said. You just can’t justify it. I do believe people should make laws on how many abortions a person can receive, and why they are doing it. There are more alternatives than just murdering the child. More responsibility should be put on the woman, they should not be absolved of it because “it’s their body.” That’s a cop out. You do know condoms aren't 100% effective, right? I'm having flashbacks to a Friends episode here... Birth control isn't 100% effective either, so you need to be prepared for what can happen. Does personal responsibility evade you? |
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Post by eva on May 27, 2018 20:31:05 GMT -5
You do know condoms aren't 100% effective, right? I'm having flashbacks to a Friends episode here... Birth control isn't 100% effective either, so you need to be prepared for what can happen. Does personal responsibility evade you? Again, that's something you have to decide for yourself and discuss with your partner. Personal choice is the key. Not some impossed law. We are just going in circles here and boring everybody else, mate. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5