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Post by matt on Sept 10, 2017 13:52:58 GMT -5
So I wrote this on a U2 forum as to why I think Brian Eno should produce them again, and why his work with them also proves what makes them great for me personally. Brian Eno is to U2 what George Martin is to The Beatles. A sounding board for great ideas and an expert intuition in pulling the band in a direction that never seemed capable before.
They just fit together like hand in glove - a marriage of convenience between the Celtic mysticism and deep spirituality of U2's music with Eno's abstract sonic landscapes conjures up a vivid imaginative world unlike anything other in music for me personally. Heartfelt with a range of emotions, that ability to also take your mind to a physical environment - imaginary or real - is tantamount to the success of U2.
It really depends on who the producer is - Bono and The Edge in particular have proven themselves as visionary songwriters willing to take their music to new levels, and it often required a producer with the same artistic vision and creativity to achieve those ideals. That happened without Brian Eno - Mofo (along with a few handful of tunes from Pop) for me is a monumental piece of work that achieved artistic gratification similar to their work with Eno, albeit very different sonically.
So it is a real disappointment when U2 opt for producers who just simply are not artists. The nadir of this is hiring Ryan Tedder, a producer and songwriter so artistically bankrupt it is cringeworthy and painful to see such a creatively expansive band hire him and take themselves down to a level that is unbefitting of the ethereal qualities that made this band one of the greatest ever.
And while they do try to incorporate some of the sonic tricks into these songs worked on by dull MOR producers like Tedder, it feels more or less just like attractive paraphernalia in an attempt to comfort long time fans that this is still the same band. But it's not - it doesn't have that Eno inspired organic nature to it where tiny little sonic fragments thread into the fabric of a sonic landscape and evoke a feeling. It's all too mechanical, rectilinear and tacked on, rather than the culmination of almost disparate sounds into an aural frame to create one whole piece of music ala A Sort Of Homecoming.
Subtlety is what separates U2 from being merely a big band to being a great one. While their music is typically stereotyped as euphoric, these moments of euphoria were embedded in a subdued and melancholy context which made those moments cathartic and all the more effective. And that concerns the sonic, melodic and lyrical aspects of the band where everything seems so much more blunt and hamfisted. Bono does not need to sing big choruses to be effective, but these days he thinks he has to - it doesn't work, because the subtlety in the music and the melody is not there anymore. It all appears rather crass as a result, and it just seems that they've forgotten what made them great.
Which is why the time would be right for Brian Eno to jump back on this wayward ship. I believe U2 can still make brilliant music, but I'd like to hear them reign it in a bit musically, melodically and lyrically, and offer a more introspective and contemplative approach next time around (after Songs of Experience because let's be honest, they're taking the sledgehammer approach to songwriting with this one).
I'll leave it on an optimistic note to show you that I think the genius of the band is still there. The Little Things That Give You Away is my favourite of their new songs so far, primarily because there is an element of beautiful restraint, by which I mean the pre-chorus which threads the song nicely.
'Oh la la, I'm not a ghost now/I can see you/You need to see me' offers a subdued melody with a quiet desperation attached to its lyrics, providing us with a sense of insecurity and inner turmoil that slowly eats away at the song's protagonist (autobiographical I presume). It's not obvious on first listen, but it's quietly devastating when you finally acknowledge it. And because of this, the chorus is all the better for it - a typical wide reaching Bono chorus if ever there was one, but there's meaning and tenderness attached to it once again, just like they did way back when. That pre-chorus is a beautiful moment that proves to me that it is indeed 'the little things' that may not be so noticeable on first listen but emphatically strikes at the heart of what makes U2 such a great band for me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 14:48:44 GMT -5
If this record doesn't sell or produce a mega hit single who does Bono point the blame at this time? Trump nah. dave sardy, of course. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 14:50:34 GMT -5
So I wrote this on a U2 forum as to why I think Brian Eno should produce them again, and why his work with them also proves what makes them great for me personally. Brian Eno is to U2 what George Martin is to The Beatles. A sounding board for great ideas and an expert intuition in pulling the band in a direction that never seemed capable before. They just fit together like hand in glove - a marriage of convenience between the Celtic mysticism and deep spirituality of U2's music with Eno's abstract sonic landscapes conjures up a vivid imaginative world unlike anything other in music for me personally. Heartfelt with a range of emotions, that ability to also take your mind to a physical environment - imaginary or real - is tantamount to the success of U2. It really depends on who the producer is - Bono and The Edge in particular have proven themselves as visionary songwriters willing to take their music to new levels, and it often required a producer with the same artistic vision and creativity to achieve those ideals. That happened without Brian Eno - Mofo (along with a few handful of tunes from Pop) for me is a monumental piece of work that achieved artistic gratification similar to their work with Eno, albeit very different sonically. So it is a real disappointment when U2 opt for producers who just simply are not artists. The nadir of this is hiring Ryan Tedder, a producer and songwriter so artistically bankrupt it is cringeworthy and painful to see such a creatively expansive band hire him and take themselves down to a level that is unbefitting of the ethereal qualities that made this band one of the greatest ever. And while they do try to incorporate some of the sonic tricks into these songs worked on by dull MOR producers like Tedder, it feels more or less just like attractive paraphernalia in an attempt to comfort long time fans that this is still the same band. But it's not - it doesn't have that Eno inspired organic nature to it where tiny little sonic fragments thread into the fabric of a sonic landscape and evoke a feeling. It's all too mechanical, rectilinear and tacked on, rather than the culmination of almost disparate sounds into an aural frame to create one whole piece of music ala A Sort Of Homecoming. Subtlety is what separates U2 from being merely a big band to being a great one. While their music is typically stereotyped as euphoric, these moments of euphoria were embedded in a subdued and melancholy context which made those moments cathartic and all the more effective. And that concerns the sonic, melodic and lyrical aspects of the band where everything seems so much more blunt and hamfisted. Bono does not need to sing big choruses to be effective, but these days he thinks he has to - it doesn't work, because the subtlety in the music and the melody is not there anymore. It all appears rather crass as a result, and it just seems that they've forgotten what made them great. Which is why the time would be right for Brian Eno to jump back on this wayward ship. I believe U2 can still make brilliant music, but I'd like to hear them reign it in a bit musically, melodically and lyrically, and offer a more introspective and contemplative approach next time around (after Songs of Experience because let's be honest, they're taking the sledgehammer approach to songwriting with this one). I'll leave it on an optimistic note to show you that I think the genius of the band is still there. The Little Things That Give You Away is my favourite of their new songs so far, primarily because there is an element of beautiful restraint, by which I mean the pre-chorus which threads the song nicely. 'Oh la la, I'm not a ghost now/I can see you/You need to see me' offers a subdued melody with a quiet desperation attached to its lyrics, providing us with a sense of insecurity and inner turmoil that slowly eats away at the song's protagonist (autobiographical I presume). It's not obvious on first listen, but it's quietly devastating when you finally acknowledge it. And because of this, the chorus is all the better for it - a typical wide reaching Bono chorus if ever there was one, but there's meaning and tenderness attached to it once again, just like they did way back when. That pre-chorus is a beautiful moment that proves to me that it is indeed 'the little things' that may not be so noticeable on first listen but emphatically strikes at the heart of what makes U2 such a great band for me. i just want another great U2 record. i don't care how they get there. i know they have it in them. |
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Post by batfink30 on Sept 10, 2017 16:16:49 GMT -5
So apparently they changed the mix of The Best Thing days before it was released. They're so riddled with self doubt and tinkering with the songs so much it's painful. I do think there's a catchy song in TBT but the version they've released is so obviously trying to be a "pop hit" it's embarrassing.
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Post by glider on Sept 10, 2017 16:23:42 GMT -5
So apparently they changed the mix of The Best Thing days before it was released. They're so riddled with self doubt and tinkering with the songs so much it's painful. I do think there's a catchy song in TBT but the version they've released is so obviously trying to be a "pop hit" it's embarrassing. They're washed now. I'm sure they could care less about making daring or edgy music. |
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Post by World71R on Sept 11, 2017 12:19:50 GMT -5
So apparently they changed the mix of The Best Thing days before it was released. They're so riddled with self doubt and tinkering with the songs so much it's painful. I do think there's a catchy song in TBT but the version they've released is so obviously trying to be a "pop hit" it's embarrassing. The Sci-Fi Soul Mix is alright. It's a lot better than the mix in the lyric video posted since the Soul Mix makes it feel like one whole song and not many parts awkwardly bridged together to make a whole song. The lyrics and composition are rather poppy, but there seems to be some sort of dark edge and melancholy to it that doesn't come out on first listen. Really, that seems to be a recurring theme on all three of the songs we've heard so it will be interesting to see what kind of an album we're gonna get overall, especially with some of the deep cuts which always get to the essence of what's interesting/what they're really going for with their albums in recent years. |
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Post by carlober on Sept 11, 2017 12:36:45 GMT -5
So apparently they changed the mix of The Best Thing days before it was released. They're so riddled with self doubt and tinkering with the songs so much it's painful. I do think there's a catchy song in TBT but the version they've released is so obviously trying to be a "pop hit" it's embarrassing. The Sci-Fi Soul Mix is alright. It's a lot better than the mix in the lyric video posted since the Soul Mix makes it feel like one whole song and not many parts awkwardly bridged together to make a whole song. The lyrics and composition are rather poppy, but there seems to be some sort of dark edge and melancholy to it that doesn't come out on first listen. Really, that seems to be a recurring theme on all three of the songs we've heard so it will be interesting to see what kind of an album we're gonna get overall, especially with some of the deep cuts which always get to the essence of what's interesting/what they're really going for with their albums in recent years. I'll admit the song has grown a bit on me (although it's still pretty generic) but this is the main problem for me. It sounds like three different songs stacked together. |
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Post by batfink30 on Sept 11, 2017 13:28:24 GMT -5
So apparently they changed the mix of The Best Thing days before it was released. They're so riddled with self doubt and tinkering with the songs so much it's painful. I do think there's a catchy song in TBT but the version they've released is so obviously trying to be a "pop hit" it's embarrassing. The Sci-Fi Soul Mix is alright. It's a lot better than the mix in the lyric video posted since the Soul Mix makes it feel like one whole song and not many parts awkwardly bridged together to make a whole song. The lyrics and composition are rather poppy, but there seems to be some sort of dark edge and melancholy to it that doesn't come out on first listen. Really, that seems to be a recurring theme on all three of the songs we've heard so it will be interesting to see what kind of an album we're gonna get overall, especially with some of the deep cuts which always get to the essence of what's interesting/what they're really going for with their albums in recent years. The Sci Fi soul mix wasn't the single mix apparently. They had 2 "emergency" mixes done days before the release. One was the Sci Fi soul done by a team of producers and the other was the single version done by Lilleywhite. The other mix was finished last year and was the scheduled single mix up until last week. I think Edge said they'll release it at some point. It's just smacks of a lack of confidence in their music and all the tinkering just doesn't help. As I said, it's catchy enough but for a band like U2 it's so generic and an obvious ploy to get some sort of hit single which they need to realise they'll probably never have again. |
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Post by batfink30 on Sept 14, 2017 16:26:50 GMT -5
Kygo version. Actually think this is much better than the single
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Post by glider on Sept 14, 2017 16:47:10 GMT -5
Kygo version. Actually think this is much better than the single Still a boring song but a more modern mix, I guess. |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Sept 16, 2017 8:47:56 GMT -5
I'm actually digging the single. The more I listen, the more I enjoy it.
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Post by matt on Sept 18, 2017 17:08:48 GMT -5
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Post by tomlivesforever on Sept 21, 2017 1:24:32 GMT -5
Don't really know what to say about the new one. I was going to say it was bilge but its so boring, so utterly anemic that discription would seem unfair.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Sept 28, 2017 7:37:48 GMT -5
I finally got around to seeing the new U2 video. Let me be the first to say.......WHAT THE FUCK guys. My problem with the video is the 9/11 Twin Towers memorial lights being used in the video. They only display that in NYC once a year on 9/11. So that begs me to ask did they film this last year in 2016 or 2 weeks ago? My gut says somewhere in-between which means they digitally inserted the 9/11 lights into the NYC backdrop. To make matters worse its not even in the correct spot of the city. To me as someone who grew up in the NYC area I find this offensive to a degree. Totally not needed for a fucking U2 video with a bunch of guys in their late 50s. #HotTake
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Post by World71R on Sept 28, 2017 16:09:30 GMT -5
I finally got around to seeing the new U2 video. Let me be the first to say.......WHAT THE FUCK guys. My problem with the video is the 9/11 Twin Towers memorial lights being used in the video. They only display that in NYC once a year on 9/11. So that begs me to ask did they film this last year in 2016 or 2 weeks ago? My gut says somewhere in-between which means they digitally inserted the 9/11 lights into the NYC backdrop. To make matters worse its not even in the correct spot of the city. To me as someone who grew up in the NYC area I find this offensive to a degree. Totally not needed for a fucking U2 video with a bunch of guys in their late 50s. #HotTake The only way this music video makes any ounce of sense besides "We love the U.S." is that the song is about how they love the U.S. for all that it is, even with its flaws that people don't always see while that could ruin it, which is still "We love the U.S.", so... yep  I'm an American, and I love love love U2, but some of their "We love the U.S." antics are freaking annoying. |
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Post by Headmaster on Sept 28, 2017 18:59:59 GMT -5
NYC again?
Ah you Bono...
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Post by Lennon2217 on Oct 14, 2017 10:53:08 GMT -5
I finally got around to seeing the new U2 video. Let me be the first to say.......WHAT THE FUCK guys. My problem with the video is the 9/11 Twin Towers memorial lights being used in the video. They only display that in NYC once a year on 9/11. So that begs me to ask did they film this last year in 2016 or 2 weeks ago? My gut says somewhere in-between which means they digitally inserted the 9/11 lights into the NYC backdrop. To make matters worse its not even in the correct spot of the city. To me as someone who grew up in the NYC area I find this offensive to a degree. Totally not needed for a fucking U2 video with a bunch of guys in their late 50s. #HotTake This |
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Post by matt on Oct 14, 2017 10:57:56 GMT -5
I really like that song The Little Things That Give You Away, and Blackout sounds really decent too. But I'm really struggling to get hyped for this album now unfortunately. The Best Thing really has dampened all enthusiasm for it, haven't bothered listening to any other mix because you can't polish a turd in my opinion. I think I listened to it a grand total of, erm twice. First time I lost interest half way through and wasn't even taking notice of it. As a massive fan, it's a shame to see them go so insipid even by recent standards. If the album is full of poor songs like this, then I sincerely hope it bombs and they finally get the message that, whatever tricks they try to throw out to appeal to the masses, the masses just don't give a fuck about them anymore. They have - or had - a hardcore fanbase of years past and I think with the indifference towards this suggests they've pissed away that fan goodwill. Perhaps it's time to please those dedicated serious fans again.
It's not outright appalling like Coldplay but for a band that had reached the peaks of the 80s and 90s, it's a huge drop off. It's not so disheartening because there's 20 years worth of great material in their back catalogue so it's not like they have anything to prove, but still, you'd like to see some of the old magic back.
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 14, 2017 11:00:56 GMT -5
I really like that song The Little Things That Give You Away, and Blackout sounds really decent too. But I'm really struggling to get hyped for this album now unfortunately. The Best Thing really has dampened all enthusiasm for it, haven't bothered listening to any other mix because you can't polish a turd in my opinion. I think I listened to it a grand total of, erm twice. First time I lost interest half way through and wasn't even taking notice of it. As a massive fan, it's a shame to see them go so insipid even by recent standards. It's not outright appalling like Coldplay but for a band that had reached the peaks of the 80s and 90s, it's a huge drop off. It's not so disheartening because there's 20 years worth of great material in their back catalogue so it's not like they have anything to prove, but still, you'd like to see some of the old magic back. I'd say The Best Thing is worse than a lot of Coldplay's recent stuff (AHFOD, Birds, Adventure of a Lifetime, Up&Up, ALIENS, Hypnotised, AICTAIY). |
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Post by matt on Oct 14, 2017 11:04:37 GMT -5
I really like that song The Little Things That Give You Away, and Blackout sounds really decent too. But I'm really struggling to get hyped for this album now unfortunately. The Best Thing really has dampened all enthusiasm for it, haven't bothered listening to any other mix because you can't polish a turd in my opinion. I think I listened to it a grand total of, erm twice. First time I lost interest half way through and wasn't even taking notice of it. As a massive fan, it's a shame to see them go so insipid even by recent standards. It's not outright appalling like Coldplay but for a band that had reached the peaks of the 80s and 90s, it's a huge drop off. It's not so disheartening because there's 20 years worth of great material in their back catalogue so it's not like they have anything to prove, but still, you'd like to see some of the old magic back. I'd say The Best Thing is worse than a lot of Coldplay's recent stuff (AHFOD, Birds, Adventure of a Lifetime, Up&Up, ALIENS, Hypnotised, AICTAIY). Fair point and I do agree. That reference was more suggestive towards the absolute low points of Coldplay's songs in recent years (e.g. Chainsmokers duet, Everglow, Amazing Day, etc). |
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Post by The Escapist on Oct 14, 2017 11:07:14 GMT -5
I'd say The Best Thing is worse than a lot of Coldplay's recent stuff (AHFOD, Birds, Adventure of a Lifetime, Up&Up, ALIENS, Hypnotised, AICTAIY). Fair point and I do agree. That reference was more suggestive towards the absolute low points of Coldplay's songs in recent years (e.g. Chainsmokers duet, Everglow, Amazing Day, etc). I don't mind Everglow but the other two are awful. I just listened to ALIENS, though, and I really love that track. It actually feels like a track from Viva-era Coldplay - beautiful, bursting with colour, but with a strange sadness behind it. Gorgeous. |
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Post by matt on Oct 14, 2017 11:12:01 GMT -5
Fair point and I do agree. That reference was more suggestive towards the absolute low points of Coldplay's songs in recent years (e.g. Chainsmokers duet, Everglow, Amazing Day, etc). I don't mind Everglow but the other two are awful. I just listened to ALIENS, though, and I really love that track. It actually feels like a track from Viva-era Coldplay - beautiful, bursting with colour, but with a strange sadness behind it. Gorgeous. That's why you can never underestimate the influence of a producer for a band. Coldplay are the best example of what happens when you hire exceptional producers, and appalling producers. |
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Post by glider on Oct 14, 2017 11:26:57 GMT -5
Washed up.
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Post by World71R on Oct 14, 2017 14:02:47 GMT -5
I really like that song The Little Things That Give You Away, and Blackout sounds really decent too. But I'm really struggling to get hyped for this album now unfortunately. The Best Thing really has dampened all enthusiasm for it, haven't bothered listening to any other mix because you can't polish a turd in my opinion. I think I listened to it a grand total of, erm twice. First time I lost interest half way through and wasn't even taking notice of it. As a massive fan, it's a shame to see them go so insipid even by recent standards. If the album is full of poor songs like this, then I sincerely hope it bombs and they finally get the message that, whatever tricks they try to throw out to appeal to the masses, the masses just don't give a fuck about them anymore. They have - or had - a hardcore fanbase of years past and I think with the indifference towards this suggests they've pissed away that fan goodwill. Perhaps it's time to please those dedicated serious fans again. It's not outright appalling like Coldplay but for a band that had reached the peaks of the 80s and 90s, it's a huge drop off. It's not so disheartening because there's 20 years worth of great material in their back catalogue so it's not like they have anything to prove, but still, you'd like to see some of the old magic back. The Best Thing was pretty shocking lyrically for how sugar-y it is, but it's something different than the usual straightforward, serious lyrical approach you often get from Bono, and it feels better than songs like I'll Go Crazy, Get on Your Boots, and The Miracle which are all over the place and feel like bad rehashes of previous U2 songs (Ultra Violet & I'll Go Crazy's bridge, the latter two & Vertigo). While The Best Thing seems thrown together between the first chorus and the second verse, the rest of it is pretty solid and sounds like what an uplifting, poppy version of U2 should sound like (especially the Sci-Fi Soul Mix, the best version). I think I'd have more problems with it if the other songs were sugar-y and pop like The Best Thing, but the others seem to have a bit of an edge to them and that gives me hope for the album. |
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Post by matt on Oct 14, 2017 14:45:52 GMT -5
I really like that song The Little Things That Give You Away, and Blackout sounds really decent too. But I'm really struggling to get hyped for this album now unfortunately. The Best Thing really has dampened all enthusiasm for it, haven't bothered listening to any other mix because you can't polish a turd in my opinion. I think I listened to it a grand total of, erm twice. First time I lost interest half way through and wasn't even taking notice of it. As a massive fan, it's a shame to see them go so insipid even by recent standards. If the album is full of poor songs like this, then I sincerely hope it bombs and they finally get the message that, whatever tricks they try to throw out to appeal to the masses, the masses just don't give a fuck about them anymore. They have - or had - a hardcore fanbase of years past and I think with the indifference towards this suggests they've pissed away that fan goodwill. Perhaps it's time to please those dedicated serious fans again. It's not outright appalling like Coldplay but for a band that had reached the peaks of the 80s and 90s, it's a huge drop off. It's not so disheartening because there's 20 years worth of great material in their back catalogue so it's not like they have anything to prove, but still, you'd like to see some of the old magic back. The Best Thing was pretty shocking lyrically for how sugar-y it is, but it's something different than the usual straightforward, serious lyrical approach you often get from Bono, and it feels better than songs like I'll Go Crazy, Get on Your Boots, and The Miracle which are all over the place and feel like bad rehashes of previous U2 songs (Ultra Violet & I'll Go Crazy's bridge, the latter two & Vertigo). While The Best Thing seems thrown together between the first chorus and the second verse, the rest of it is pretty solid and sounds like what an uplifting, poppy version of U2 should sound like (especially the Sci-Fi Soul Mix, the best version). I think I'd have more problems with it if the other songs were sugar-y and pop like The Best Thing, but the others seem to have a bit of an edge to them and that gives me hope for the album. Fair enough, admittedly it's a very low bar to reach. Structure wise it's a bit more interesting than The Miracle, and the only thing I like about The Best Thing is the end when Bono sings 'why am I walking away?' after singing about his wife (presumably) being the 'best thing' about him. A bit of a downer at the end stops it from being too sugary. As a hardcore fan, I'll look for anything to clutch onto so maybe it's just a way of me subconsciously trying to get it though! It's just that cut and paste generic chorus I can't stand. There will be undoubtedly a clutch of songs I enjoy on the album but the days of U2 releasing a fully conceptually coherent piece of work are long gone I'm afraid. The irony of it is that Songs of Innocence is supposed to have a fairly tight concept on the surface, and with the subject matter being autobiographical and very personal, it's shocking just how lacking in intimacy and introspection it is. I think Bono said more in a song like Lemon than he did on the entire Songs of Innocence album. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5