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Post by carryusall on Jan 22, 2016 3:47:35 GMT -5
Can we post our alternate DOYS tracklistings yet? NOOOOOO!!!(!!!) I didn't know what I was starting. I... I didn't know... |
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Post by andymorris on Jan 22, 2016 4:01:22 GMT -5
No. I believe his label had a deadline to release the record and they went with what they had recorded so far.
He said there's backing tracks for Come On Outside and Record Machine, and i think he's telling the truth.
No conspiracy since Noel's tunes are strong and he could have put a couple more on it to make it a greater record, bu he didn't, coz he had to please everyone. No other songs we heard after that from BDI that were contender for DOYS (Four Letter Word), would have matched the sound.
And i like To Be Where There's and even Nature Of Reality. Records needs little stuff like this. STC would not have matched DOYS, neither would have Dream On.
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Post by frogerz on Jan 22, 2016 6:00:11 GMT -5
Without doubt Noel held some songs back on this album. It was a case of 'that will do' rather than making the best album possible.
By the time they recorded DOYS Noel couldn't be arsed and just wanted that and the tour done. He knew he was going solo but just needed the reason.
Picking a fight with Liam throughout the tour was a pretty good one as people buy it..
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Post by Rolo on Jan 22, 2016 6:34:47 GMT -5
That whole story about Record Machine and Come On, It's Alright not being included because Liam went to get married is the biggest loads of shit I've heard from anyone, ever and that made me lose a lot of respect for Noel. Liam went back to England for 3 days before flying back out to LA ffs. The time between them finishing the recording process and the album coming out was something like 6 months, are you telling me Liam couldn't of done two vocal takes in that time? Absolute bull shit.
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Post by beentherenow on Jan 22, 2016 7:05:53 GMT -5
Of course Noel didn't purposefully sabotage DOYS but his and the rest of the bands inept ability to tracklist an album correctly did,
Starting with SOTSOG there was just utterly bizarre and baffling decisions taken by Noel in terms of song choices and the flow of an album. He constantly comes out with rubbish like 'that's on there because I felt we needed a rocker' or something equally as weak.
No Noel you put your best songs on the album. End of.
This is not rocket science and you are not Roger Waters, stop over thinking things.
I bet my bottom dollar Aint Got Nothing was on DOYS instead of Boy with The Blues because Noel felt it was too similar in tempo to I'm Outta Time and Aint Got Nothing fitted the tempo better even though it's utter shite.
Same story with LAMB and ICSAL. SOTSOG would have been an even more sombre affair without ICSAL but Noel at the time said Liam wanted it on there. I think that's bollocks, we know Noel is in charge and that is Noel passing the blame because in reality he bottled putting out an album without a pub rock song on it no matter how poor it is.
Idlers Dream not on HC is the worst of the lot but again that would have been Noel wanting Oasis to go back to their MG sound and Idlers Dream doesn't fit that bill. Nothing to do with the fact Idlers Dream is the best song from that era, he thought he knew best and it would make a better album without it.
It didn't
This doesn't even include their stupid ability to not finish songs. DO NOT RELEASE THE ALBUM UNTIL ALL POTENTIAL SONGS ARE FINISHED! YOU ARE NOT UP AGAINST A CLOCK, TAKE 5 YEARS IF YOU NEED TOO, JUST REALISE THE BEST YOU CAN NOT SOME HAVE ARSED EFFORT!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 7:18:00 GMT -5
Noel's fucked up track-listings since the very beginning of Oasis, really. DOYS isn't an exception. I guess Noel started sabotaging Oasis since 1994 then? No. Again, please stop. Definitely Maybe, Morning Glory and Be Here Now were all perfect. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 7:19:58 GMT -5
Of course Noel didn't purposefully sabotage DOYS but his and the rest of the bands inept ability to tracklist an album correctly did, Starting with SOTSOG there was just utterly bizarre and baffling decisions taken by Noel in terms of song choices and the flow of an album. He constantly comes out with rubbish like 'that's on there because I felt we needed a rocker' or something equally as weak. No Noel you put your best songs on the album. End of. This is not rocket science and you are not Roger Waters, stop over thinking things. I bet my bottom dollar Aint Got Nothing was on DOYS instead of Boy with The Blues because Noel felt it was too similar in tempo to I'm Outta Time and Aint Got Nothing fitted the tempo better even though it's utter shite. Same story with LAMB and ICSAL. SOTSOG would have been an even more sombre affair without ICSAL but Noel at the time said Liam wanted it on there. I think that's bollocks, we know Noel is in charge and that is Noel passing the blame because in reality he bottled putting out an album without a pub rock song on it no matter how poor it is. Idlers Dream not on HC is the worst of the lot but again that would have been Noel wanting Oasis to go back to their MG sound and Idlers Dream doesn't fit that bill. Nothing to do with the fact Idlers Dream is the best song from that era, he thought he knew best and it would make a better album without it. It didn't This doesn't even include their stupid ability to not finish songs. DO NOT RELEASE THE ALBUM UNTIL ALL POTENTIAL SONGS ARE FINISHED! YOU ARE NOT UP AGAINST A CLOCK, TAKE 5 YEARS IF YOU NEED TOO, JUST REALISE THE BEST YOU CAN NOT SOME HAVE ARSED EFFORT! |
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Post by andymorris on Jan 22, 2016 7:26:10 GMT -5
That whole story about Record Machine and Come On, It's Alright not being included because Liam went to get married is the biggest loads of shit I've heard from anyone, ever and that made me lost a lot of respect for Noel. Liam went back to England for 3 days before flying back out to LA ffs. The time between them finishing the recording process and the album coming out was something like 6 months, are you telling me Liam couldn't of done two vocal takes in that time? Absolute bull shit. As i said before, it was a matter, probably, of deadline. Records are finished months, sometimes a year before they are released. The sessions were probably close to being finished, studio time expiring (Abbey Road isnt actually cheap) when Liam decided to leave. Then mixing was underway and mastering after that. It was just too late. Dave Sardy doesn't live in the uk and probably got back home by then. Apparently Sessions were also complicated by U2 booking the studio when Oasis wanted it... "For the recording of Dig Out Your Soul, Oasis reunited with Don't Believe the Truth producer Dave Sardy at Abbey Road Studios in Westminster.[5] Sessions began in July/August 2007 and concluded around Christmas with intermittent breaks.[2][3][6][7] There was a brief period of confusion in which it seemed that Oasis would have had to forgo recording at Abbey Road due to U2 having reserved the recording areas that Oasis wished to use far in advance. The issue was resolved when Noel bought U2's spot in cash without the band’s knowledge; this was possible due to the fact that the studios gave preference to cash payments over credit, which U2 had been booked with.[8]" www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/oasis-booted-u2-from-abbey-road-with-cash-166361We'll never know the real story but the truth probably lie inbetween : Liam not respecting schedule and Noel being a bit too harsh about it + some fights during the sessions + complicated studio time. You think Noel is lying but Liam wasn't exactly toooo professional back then... In Oasis, Noel had a lot more pressure than Liam, dealing with all aspects of the band while Liam was just here to sing. You gotta take that into account to understand why Noel was fed up. |
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jan 22, 2016 7:33:13 GMT -5
Noel's fucked up track-listings since the very beginning of Oasis, really. DOYS isn't an exception. I guess Noel started sabotaging Oasis since 1994 then? No. Again, please stop. Definitely Maybe, Morning Glory and Be Here Now were all perfect. I disagree. He left off two absolute gems when he didn't put Stay Young and Going Nowhere on Be Here Now, and I firmly believe The Masterplan to be one of the best songs he's even written. Sure, the albums are still fantastic, they're 90s Oasis albums after all, you'd be hard pushed to make a shit album out of the songs they released from 94-97, but Morning Glory and especially Be Here Now, could have been better. |
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Post by beentherenow on Jan 22, 2016 8:04:53 GMT -5
The difference is the tracklistings from 94-97 are mainly peoples opinion,
Should Listen Up been on DM? The Masterplan on MG? Going Nowhere on BNH? Yeah maybe but they are not make or break obvious decisions. One person will prefer She's Electric, another would prefer Rockin Chair on MG etc.
Also before 1997 Noel thought he could keep on writing classics and that's why song like The Masterplan are not on MG because they were written after the MG sessions but weren't saved because his ego believed songs like that would come every week
Whereas some of the 2000 onward choice are just strange. On no planet should LAMB been left off SOTSOG or Idler's Dream off HC. Noel knew he wasn't as prolific as he was in 1992/95 and great songs should have been treated as such not just palmed off as b-sides when mediocre songs remain on the album.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 8:10:16 GMT -5
Definitely Maybe, Morning Glory and Be Here Now were all perfect. I disagree. He left off two absolute gems when he didn't put Stay Young and Going Nowhere on Be Here Now, and I firmly believe The Masterplan to be one of the best songs he's even written. Sure, the albums are still fantastic, they're 90s Oasis albums after all, you'd be hard pushed to make a shit album out of the songs they released from 94-97, but Morning Glory and especially Be Here Now, could have been better. I mean, Stay Young and Going Nowhere are not (much) better songs then the songs on Be Here Now. The Masterplan was written after Morning Glory. |
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Post by defmaybe00 on Jan 22, 2016 8:33:42 GMT -5
Noel probably wanted to do a solo record,but I don't think he wanted to pursue a proper solo career like he edventually did,he has said many times they could have gone doing their own stuff for 5 years and then come back together and that's probably the way he wanted it,but I believe there was a lot going on between him and Liam during the whole DOYS era and it was inevitable for Oasis to end the way they did
Did he sabotage DOYS on purpose? Fuck knows,but are Record Machine and Stop The Clocks really THAT good? (I like Come On Outside) And if he did why didn't he hold back Falling Down instead?
As somebody else said,he seems to overthink tracklists quite a lot (The Mexican is an example of this) and usually ends up favouring things like flow instead of just picking the best songs
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Post by Flatulence Panic on Jan 22, 2016 8:34:41 GMT -5
I disagree. He left off two absolute gems when he didn't put Stay Young and Going Nowhere on Be Here Now, and I firmly believe The Masterplan to be one of the best songs he's even written. Sure, the albums are still fantastic, they're 90s Oasis albums after all, you'd be hard pushed to make a shit album out of the songs they released from 94-97, but Morning Glory and especially Be Here Now, could have been better. I mean, Stay Young and Going Nowhere are not (much) better songs then the songs on Be Here Now. The Masterplan was written after Morning Glory. Going Nowhere and Stay Young are brilliant b-sides but they wouldn't fit in on BHN. Plus they both just carried on the tradition of Oasis being a brilliant b-sides band, much like The Beatles. |
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Post by spud on Jan 22, 2016 8:43:30 GMT -5
People are getting confused here - I didn't suggest at any point that Noel held songs back. I just hypothesised that he deliberately picked the shittest songs the other three put forward in order to make his ones sound even better.
The second half is so shite. It does make me wonder why Oasis ever became a democracy in the first place? Every album post-SOTSOG was an exercise in mediocrity.
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 22, 2016 8:46:32 GMT -5
People are getting confused here - I didn't suggest at any point that Noel held songs back. I just hypothesised that he deliberately picked the shittest songs the other three put forward in order to make his ones sound even better. The second half is so shite. It does make me wonder why Oasis ever became a democracy in the first place? Every album post-SOTSOG was an exercise in mediocrity. When Noel gave up 100% of the writing of Oasis albums, everything changed. Mostly for the worse....  |
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Post by Rolo on Jan 22, 2016 8:49:34 GMT -5
That whole story about Record Machine and Come On, It's Alright not being included because Liam went to get married is the biggest loads of shit I've heard from anyone, ever and that made me lost a lot of respect for Noel. Liam went back to England for 3 days before flying back out to LA ffs. The time between them finishing the recording process and the album coming out was something like 6 months, are you telling me Liam couldn't of done two vocal takes in that time? Absolute bull shit. As i said before, it was a matter, probably, of deadline. Records are finished months, sometimes a year before they are released. The sessions were probably close to being finished, studio time expiring (Abbey Road isnt actually cheap) when Liam decided to leave. Then mixing was underway and mastering after that. It was just too late. Dave Sardy doesn't live in the uk and probably got back home by then. Apparently Sessions were also complicated by U2 booking the studio when Oasis wanted it... "For the recording of Dig Out Your Soul, Oasis reunited with Don't Believe the Truth producer Dave Sardy at Abbey Road Studios in Westminster.[5] Sessions began in July/August 2007 and concluded around Christmas with intermittent breaks.[2][3][6][7] There was a brief period of confusion in which it seemed that Oasis would have had to forgo recording at Abbey Road due to U2 having reserved the recording areas that Oasis wished to use far in advance. The issue was resolved when Noel bought U2's spot in cash without the band’s knowledge; this was possible due to the fact that the studios gave preference to cash payments over credit, which U2 had been booked with.[8]" www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/oasis-booted-u2-from-abbey-road-with-cash-166361We'll never know the real story but the truth probably lie inbetween : Liam not respecting schedule and Noel being a bit too harsh about it + some fights during the sessions + complicated studio time. You think Noel is lying but Liam wasn't exactly toooo professional back then... In Oasis, Noel had a lot more pressure than Liam, dealing with all aspects of the band while Liam was just here to sing. You gotta take that into account to understand why Noel was fed up. I'm sorry but I'm just not having it. If Noel wanted them songs on the album they would of been there. Liam was away from the sessions for three days, THREE days, at most! It's probably the most frustrating thing that happened with Oasis because if them two songs would of been included with a Liam vocal, I feel DOYS would of been a classic. Just thinking of Come On, It's Alright and Record Machine with Liam on them makes me want to cry. Let's just hope they get released from the vault on day eh? |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jan 22, 2016 9:08:41 GMT -5
Seriously? Are we back at this "Noel sabotaged his band to hold songs back for an eventual solo record" discussion? Picking a fight with Liam just to get out?  Ohmygod. Some of you have GOT to be kidding. |
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Jan 22, 2016 9:10:11 GMT -5
People are getting confused here - I didn't suggest at any point that Noel held songs back. I just hypothesised that he deliberately picked the shittest songs the other three put forward in order to make his ones sound even better. The second half is so shite. It does make me wonder why Oasis ever became a democracy in the first place? Every album post-SOTSOG was an exercise in mediocrity. Even if some shit like Four Letter Word would have been on there, his songs would still have been better. Apparently the rest of them were okay with it, otherwise they wouldn't have played him TNOR and Muffins. |
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Post by spaneli on Jan 22, 2016 9:16:55 GMT -5
That whole story about Record Machine and Come On, It's Alright not being included because Liam went to get married is the biggest loads of shit I've heard from anyone, ever and that made me lost a lot of respect for Noel. Liam went back to England for 3 days before flying back out to LA ffs. The time between them finishing the recording process and the album coming out was something like 6 months, are you telling me Liam couldn't of done two vocal takes in that time? Absolute bull shit. As i said before, it was a matter, probably, of deadline. Records are finished months, sometimes a year before they are released. The sessions were probably close to being finished, studio time expiring (Abbey Road isnt actually cheap) when Liam decided to leave. Then mixing was underway and mastering after that. It was just too late. Dave Sardy doesn't live in the uk and probably got back home by then. Apparently Sessions were also complicated by U2 booking the studio when Oasis wanted it... "For the recording of Dig Out Your Soul, Oasis reunited with Don't Believe the Truth producer Dave Sardy at Abbey Road Studios in Westminster.[5] Sessions began in July/August 2007 and concluded around Christmas with intermittent breaks.[2][3][6][7] There was a brief period of confusion in which it seemed that Oasis would have had to forgo recording at Abbey Road due to U2 having reserved the recording areas that Oasis wished to use far in advance. The issue was resolved when Noel bought U2's spot in cash without the band’s knowledge; this was possible due to the fact that the studios gave preference to cash payments over credit, which U2 had been booked with.[8]" www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/oasis-booted-u2-from-abbey-road-with-cash-166361We'll never know the real story but the truth probably lie inbetween : Liam not respecting schedule and Noel being a bit too harsh about it + some fights during the sessions + complicated studio time. You think Noel is lying but Liam wasn't exactly toooo professional back then... In Oasis, Noel had a lot more pressure than Liam, dealing with all aspects of the band while Liam was just here to sing. You gotta take that into account to understand why Noel was fed up. I agree. The truth most likely lies in the middle. Noel completely overreacted, and I agree with Rolo . If Noel wanted the vocals, he would have had them. Vocals can be done anywhere. Not like the 70's where the environment of the recording matters in the mixing and mastering. He could have booked any studio between here and the U.K., and once again, music isn't recorded on reels anymore. Even in 2008, there were multiple platforms to share music without losing fidelity during the mixing. Besides, if the guy you have mixing can't incorporate two extra vocals a couple days late, that is to say, hold off on a couple songs prior to mixing, then you have a crap mixer. However, I'm sorry, but Liam can't be absolved of all blame. I don't care if it was three days. Be a professional. Liam also could have planned that wedding from then until god knows when. He knew he had obligations. He knew his band was on a schedule. He knew money was spent to book a studio. He knew all those things when he booked that wedding, and didn't care. And no one can tell me he didn't know he would piss off Noel by going and not telling him. It's a microcosm of Liam. NEVER able to handle responsibility, as evident in Beady Eye. NEVER able to see the big picture. When you're the guy in the studio every day like Noel is. When you're the guy who has to answer everyone at anytime, and put out any fires that occur, when someone shows the obvious disrespect of knowingly putting more on your plate without a care in the world, then it's obvious why Noel was pissed. And to lose respect for Noel for not being a pushover is quite frankly, bullshit. I think in the end, Noel was tired of appeasing, and moving on. It's easier to sit here and say, well why couldn't he be enough of a grown-up to just move on and do the vocals. It's always easier to ask the other person to just suck it up one more time for the sake of the band. Not to paint Noel as a martyr or Liam as the devil, but it's not all too difficult to see Noel's point of view. tl;dr It fell upon both Noel and Liam to be more grown-up. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 22, 2016 9:17:43 GMT -5
For the most part, I think there's a lot of positive things to be said about choosing the songs which suited the albums over just ordering the best 10-12. There's a serious art in designing an album as a definitive package with a particular theme and attitude that could quite easily be spoiled by choosing the wrong tune (even if it is a little better). When you think about Never Mind The Bollocks or Loveless you instantly remember the album's character because of the unity of the songs that make them up.
At the end of the day the tracklist is decided by a small group of individuals (with Noel getting the biggest and final say) and the chances of them choosing the list that best reflects the fanbases general consensus is unsurprisingly low. If their taste in music means creating something which challenges the fanbases opinion then so be it. I'm sure many people find some of the positive and negative opinions that are widely agreed upon by the Oasis fan base to be outrageous, because I sure know I do!
Don't get me wrong, the band has made plenty of tracklist mistakes (Come On Outside, etc.), but I think at least half of them aren't mistakes at all. In my opinion when enough people have similar enough thoughts and tastes, a feedback loop can start to fuel people's beliefs and if enough people agree it simply starts becoming fact to some.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 9:23:54 GMT -5
Andy didn't even want The Nature of Reality on Dig Out Your Soul iirc.
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Jan 22, 2016 9:26:40 GMT -5
People are getting confused here - I didn't suggest at any point that Noel held songs back. I just hypothesised that he deliberately picked the shittest songs the other three put forward in order to make his ones sound even better. The second half is so shite. It does make me wonder why Oasis ever became a democracy in the first place? Every album post-SOTSOG was an exercise in mediocrity. Even if some shit like Four Letter Word would have been on there, his songs would still have been better. Apparently the rest of them were okay with it, otherwise they wouldn't have played him TNOR and Muffins.  |
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Post by andybellwillring on Jan 22, 2016 9:45:35 GMT -5
Andy didn't even want The Nature of Reality on Dig Out Your Soul iirc. Andy had made a 5-track demo and put the running order of the songs from what he considered the best to worst; TNOR was the last song... Enter Noel, who liked the riff enough to put what Andy considered the worst song of the five on the album. |
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Post by Longtime Servant of the Gun on Jan 22, 2016 10:01:26 GMT -5
YYYYyeeeeeaaaaaah!!!!
1. Bag it Up
2. The Turning
3. Waiting for the rapture
4. The Shock of the lightning
5. I'm Outta Time
6. Come on it's Alright
7. Falling Down
8. Record Machine
9. To Be Where there's Life [Richard Fearless Mix]
10 I Believe in All
11 Boy with the Blues
Whenever I finish typing this track listing it's like I've sneezed, Ejaculated and Shot Heroin simultaneously.
!WORD!
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Post by Thomas on Jan 22, 2016 10:07:48 GMT -5
Andy didn't even want The Nature of Reality on Dig Out Your Soul iirc. Andy had made a 5-track demo and put the running order of the songs from what he considered the best to worst; TNOR was the last song... Enter Noel, who liked the riff enough to put what Andy considered the worst song of the five on the album. Do we have any more details on this? I'm really interested. |
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