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Post by oasisunited on Jan 18, 2019 11:08:55 GMT -5
oasisunited gives a date of January 7th which corresponds to a (annoyingly unreferenced) note I found I made the other day. A good source for this would still be appreciated though! I have found this date to be questionable as well, but probably close to accurate. A few places claim that they started recording at Monnow Valley in December 1993, but I think this is people getting confused with when the label contacted the studio to reserve it vs. when the band actually arrived to record. There is a gap in Oasis's gigography between December 17th 1993 and March 23rd, 1994. We also know that there are various references to Oasis returning to the studio (Sawmill) after being deported on the trip to Amsterdam. That, I believe was in support of the Verve and puts that date on/or around February 17th, 1994 (the Verve gigs started on February 18th, so it was probably the day before). So I think it makes sense that they wouldn't start recording a few days before Christmas, so early January seems like the most likely time for them to have decamped to Monnow Valley. From all accounts, they were there for about a week or two, with mixing probably taking place back in London. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 18, 2019 12:25:24 GMT -5
Couple of questions: - What's the deal with the 'Shakermaker (Slide Up Mix)'? Was it the bands Monnow Valley attempt before reverting back to the demo? By the looks of a typically fantastic davidjay post here the 'Slide Up Mix' is simply a different mix of the demo. Having synced these tracks up on Audacity (The "Whatever Demo" is ~3.33% faster) I can confirm they are exactly the same. Contrary to Mr Monobrow's fantastic website I believe 'Up In the Sky' was done at Porter Street with The Real People. This is line with what Jim has posted here. I still need to find the source though. Like deadman says Mark Coyle name checks these tracks in the inner sleeve to the rereleased 'Live Demonstration' tape. Chris Griffiths also name checks 'Comin' On Strong' and 'Lock All the Doors' on The Oasis Podcast. The clincher though for me is comparing the Live Demonstration release of 'Strange Thing' to the 'Strange Thing' that came with 'Must Be the Music', 'Lock All the Doors' & 'Comin' On Strong'. I believe that the 'Live Demonstration' version is the same performance only the right channel has been mono-ed, compression has been added and the " Recording" exclamation (similarly heard on the demo (version 1) of 'Columbia') and drum count in has been removed. You should be able to sync them up pretty well if you increase the tempo of the 'Live Demonstration' version by 1.4%. The feedback at the end is pretty distinctive and is a good indicator that it's the same performance. Note that the non 'Live Demonstration' version repeats the last few seconds of the track twice something I believe is simply a mistake. oasisunited gives a date of January 7th which corresponds to a (annoyingly unreferenced) note I found I made the other day. A good source for this would still be appreciated though!
Here's another question: - When did Noel first move to Chiswick? I've heard he was living opposite Eden Studios so perhaps he was there when they went in in early 1994? Just updated this on the previous page so I'm gonna quote it. Having carefully listened to the "Whatever Demos" & compared them to other demos (where possible) here are my thoughts: 1) Digsy's Dinner - The song was apparently demoed at Loco Studios so it's likely a poor quality version of that. 2) Live Forever - Exactly the same as the much higher quality demo done at Loco Studios. 3) Up In the Sky - The song was demoed at The Real People studios so it's likely a poor quality version of that. 4) D'Yer Wanna Be a Spaceman? - Exactly the same as the much higher quality demo (AKA the official version) recorded with Mark Coyle. 5) Whatever - Written at The Real People sessions so it's likely a poor quality version of the demo recorded there. 6) Alive - A different performance to the 'Live Demonstration' version. Possibly an early live take with the Realies or even older. 7) Cloudburst - A different performance to the 'Live Demonstration' version. Definitely older. No "Downtown the moon is shining" verse. Possibly an early live take with the Realies, possibly even older. Has the a similarly harsh & noisy guitar sound as 'Alive' so maybe they were done about the same time. 8) Bring It On Down - A different performance to the 'Live Demonstration' version. Definitely older. Uses the slightly different line "I'll be scraping their lives from the soul of my shoe" (no "tonight") with a different melody. Possibly an early live take with the Realies, possibly even older. Has the similarly harsh & noisy guitar sound as 'Alive' and 'Cloudburst' so maybe they were done about the same time. All of these songs were written prior to The Real People sessions so it's very possible. These 3 songs have a similar sound quality so perhaps they all came from the same source. 9) Rock 'N' Roll Star - Likely an early edit of what became the 'Live Demonstration' version & therefore done with the Realies.* *Like this version of 'Columbia': |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 18, 2019 12:34:13 GMT -5
oasisunited gives a date of January 7th which corresponds to a (annoyingly unreferenced) note I found I made the other day. A good source for this would still be appreciated though! I have found this date to be questionable as well, but probably close to accurate. A few places claim that they started recording at Monnow Valley in December 1993, but I think this is people getting confused with when the label contacted the studio to reserve it vs. when the band actually arrived to record. There is a gap in Oasis's gigography between December 17th 1993 and March 23rd, 1994. We also know that there are various references to Oasis returning to the studio (Sawmill) after being deported on the trip to Amsterdam. That, I believe was in support of the Verve and puts that date on/or around February 17th, 1994 (the Verve gigs started on February 18th, so it was probably the day before). So I think it makes sense that they wouldn't start recording a few days before Christmas, so early January seems like the most likely time for them to have decamped to Monnow Valley. From all accounts, they were there for about a week or two, with mixing probably taking place back in London. Totally agree with everything your saying. The last day at 'Monnow Valley' was 26/01/1994 (the day before they played The Water Rats in London) so if they were only there a short period of time early Jan makes total sense as start date. I've got a completely unreferenced note of the Sawmill's session being from 24/02/1994 - 08/03/1994 however these dates might be at an absolute minimum. |
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Post by asimarx on Jan 18, 2019 15:34:55 GMT -5
The Crimson Rambler, just a quick addition, they famously recorded Supersonic, Take Me Away and an unreleased version of I Will Believe over 2 days in mid december 1993 at Pink Museum studios in Liverpool. It's highly unlikely they had started recording at Monnow Valley in late 1993, only to suddenly move to Liverpool to record the above mentioned with a different producer.
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Post by oasisunited on Jan 18, 2019 16:42:17 GMT -5
I have found this date to be questionable as well, but probably close to accurate. A few places claim that they started recording at Monnow Valley in December 1993, but I think this is people getting confused with when the label contacted the studio to reserve it vs. when the band actually arrived to record. There is a gap in Oasis's gigography between December 17th 1993 and March 23rd, 1994. We also know that there are various references to Oasis returning to the studio (Sawmill) after being deported on the trip to Amsterdam. That, I believe was in support of the Verve and puts that date on/or around February 17th, 1994 (the Verve gigs started on February 18th, so it was probably the day before). So I think it makes sense that they wouldn't start recording a few days before Christmas, so early January seems like the most likely time for them to have decamped to Monnow Valley. From all accounts, they were there for about a week or two, with mixing probably taking place back in London. Totally agree with everything your saying. The last day at 'Monnow Valley' was 26/01/1994 (the day before they played The Water Rats in London) so if they were only there a short period of time early Jan makes total sense as start date. I've got a completely unreferenced note of the Sawmill's session being from 24/02/1994 - 08/03/1994 however these dates might be at an absolute minimum. Those dates for Sawmill sound likely as well. As I mentioned previously, there are numerous sources that state that the band went right into the studio after the ferry incident. We also know from those sources that Noel stayed in Amsterdam for a few days before returning, so that would put the earliest that they could have started sometime around February 19th or 20th (if we assume the February 18th Verve gig is the one they were heading over to support). It's more likely they everyone took a few days to decompress before beginning the session (and starting the Oasis tradition of fixing everything by going into the studio). Keep up the good work! If I recall correctly, in Supersonic everyone said that the Sawmill session went quickly, so being there for about two weeks seems right. We also know that they ended up doing some re-recording of vocals after the fact with Owen Morris, so it would make sense that it was a short session (also considering they already spent a ton of money on Monnow Valley and were on take 2). |
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Post by World71R on Jan 18, 2019 17:44:29 GMT -5
Definitely Maybe is amazing, but replace Shakermaker with Fade Away and it's just right imo. Digsy's Dinner could stay since it just has such an awesome, youthful punk vibe that embodies DM perfectly.
Also, it's crazy how much Columbia grows on you. I didn't think anything of it the first few times I heard it, but just listening closer at everything going on (the guitar riffs, the MBV-like wall of bass and electric guitars, the backing vocals, the little samples), it becomes something really bloody cool, epic, and special. I love it.
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Post by Aman on Jan 18, 2019 17:46:57 GMT -5
Definitely Maybe is amazing, but replace Shakermaker with Fade Away and it's just right imo. Digsy's Dinner could stay since it just has such an awesome, youthful punk vibe that embodies DM perfectly. Also, it's crazy how much Columbia grows on you. I didn't think anything of it the first few times I heard it, but just listening closer at everything going on (the guitar riffs, the MBV-like wall of bass and electric guitars, the backing vocals, the little samples), it becomes something really bloody cool, epic, and special. I love it. Columbia hits you when you play it loud, and you realise how good it is. Whenever it comes on shuffle in my car it never fails to sound amazing. |
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Post by Headmaster on Jan 18, 2019 19:14:56 GMT -5
Shakermaker is great, it embodies that lazy in the sun feeling very well, great guitar riffs, the only sin was that it was a single, it shouldn't, and maybe it's a bit too long, but when that "I'm sorry but I just don't know..." part hits you it brings a big smile to your face.
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Post by oasisunited on Jan 19, 2019 14:18:53 GMT -5
Totally agree with everything your saying. The last day at 'Monnow Valley' was 26/01/1994 (the day before they played The Water Rats in London) so if they were only there a short period of time early Jan makes total sense as start date. I've got a completely unreferenced note of the Sawmill's session being from 24/02/1994 - 08/03/1994 however these dates might be at an absolute minimum. Those dates for Sawmill sound likely as well. As I mentioned previously, there are numerous sources that state that the band went right into the studio after the ferry incident. We also know from those sources that Noel stayed in Amsterdam for a few days before returning, so that would put the earliest that they could have started sometime around February 19th or 20th (if we assume the February 18th Verve gig is the one they were heading over to support). It's more likely they everyone took a few days to decompress before beginning the session (and starting the Oasis tradition of fixing everything by going into the studio). Keep up the good work! If I recall correctly, in Supersonic everyone said that the Sawmill session went quickly, so being there for about two weeks seems right. We also know that they ended up doing some re-recording of vocals after the fact with Owen Morris, so it would make sense that it was a short session (also considering they already spent a ton of money on Monnow Valley and were on take 2). More evidence for the Sawmills dates: I was just looking at the liner notes for The Masterplan, and it lists the recording data and location for Listen Up as: Sawmills Studios, Cornwall UK, March 1994. This definitely lines up with the dates that you have for the session. Without knowing if Listen Up was recorded early on or at the end (since it ended up as a b-side, I am guess it would have been done towards the end of the session), its hard to say exactly when they were in the studio, but this does seem to corroborate the dates. |
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Post by The Escapist on Jan 19, 2019 15:03:54 GMT -5
I wonder what kind of LP4 Noel was imagining when he was making those "Be Here Now is good, but the next one will be better" comments in 1997. I can't imagine he envisaged something as pessimistic and morose as SOTSOG became, although he did want to approach it in "a different frame of mind" - did he mean emotionally or musically?
It would have been cool if his optimistic frame of mind had merged with the desire to experiment at some point, we never really got an Oasis track that was both happy and different, other than maybe The Importance of Being Idle, which was fantastic.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 19, 2019 15:23:24 GMT -5
Those dates for Sawmill sound likely as well. As I mentioned previously, there are numerous sources that state that the band went right into the studio after the ferry incident. We also know from those sources that Noel stayed in Amsterdam for a few days before returning, so that would put the earliest that they could have started sometime around February 19th or 20th (if we assume the February 18th Verve gig is the one they were heading over to support). It's more likely they everyone took a few days to decompress before beginning the session (and starting the Oasis tradition of fixing everything by going into the studio). Keep up the good work! If I recall correctly, in Supersonic everyone said that the Sawmill session went quickly, so being there for about two weeks seems right. We also know that they ended up doing some re-recording of vocals after the fact with Owen Morris, so it would make sense that it was a short session (also considering they already spent a ton of money on Monnow Valley and were on take 2). More evidence for the Sawmills dates: I was just looking at the liner notes for The Masterplan, and it lists the recording data and location for Listen Up as: Sawmills Studios, Cornwall UK, March 1994. This definitely lines up with the dates that you have for the session. Without knowing if Listen Up was recorded early on or at the end (since it ended up as a b-side, I am guess it would have been done towards the end of the session), its hard to say exactly when they were in the studio, but this does seem to corroborate the dates. I believe that must be an error in the liner notes as Listen Up was done at Maison Rouge along with Fade Away, Whatever and the original demo of Some Might Say in early July (or according to the tape June) 1994. Check out this thread. |
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Post by oasisunited on Jan 19, 2019 16:25:42 GMT -5
More evidence for the Sawmills dates: I was just looking at the liner notes for The Masterplan, and it lists the recording data and location for Listen Up as: Sawmills Studios, Cornwall UK, March 1994. This definitely lines up with the dates that you have for the session. Without knowing if Listen Up was recorded early on or at the end (since it ended up as a b-side, I am guess it would have been done towards the end of the session), its hard to say exactly when they were in the studio, but this does seem to corroborate the dates. I believe that must be an error in the liner notes as Listen Up was done at Maison Rouge along with Fade Away, Whatever and the original demo of Some Might Say in early July (or according to the tape June) 1994. Check out this thread. Yes, it's definitely listed as being recorded at Maison Rouge in other sources, but I wonder if they re-recorded parts of it/vocals while at Sawmills for the final version. I know that Owen Morris had the band re-record some parts as he was mixing, so maybe that is going on here? It is entirely possible that it is just an error in the notes as you have mentioned. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 19, 2019 19:08:44 GMT -5
I believe that must be an error in the liner notes as Listen Up was done at Maison Rouge along with Fade Away, Whatever and the original demo of Some Might Say in early July (or according to the tape June) 1994. Check out this thread. Yes, it's definitely listed as being recorded at Maison Rouge in other sources, but I wonder if they re-recorded parts of it/vocals while at Sawmills for the final version. I know that Owen Morris had the band re-record some parts as he was mixing, so maybe that is going on here? It is entirely possible that it is just an error in the notes as you have mentioned. According to Noel it was still being written at Maison Rouge so I'd think it's very likely a mistake. |
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Post by oasisunited on Jan 19, 2019 20:01:54 GMT -5
Yes, it's definitely listed as being recorded at Maison Rouge in other sources, but I wonder if they re-recorded parts of it/vocals while at Sawmills for the final version. I know that Owen Morris had the band re-record some parts as he was mixing, so maybe that is going on here? It is entirely possible that it is just an error in the notes as you have mentioned. According to Noel it was still being written at Maison Rouge so I'd think it's very likely a mistake. Even if it is an error (which I agree it is), I think that we can trust the late February/early March date for the recording session at Sawmills based on those liner notes (they assumed at was recorded during those sessions). |
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Post by asimarx on Jan 20, 2019 8:48:37 GMT -5
I have found this date to be questionable as well, but probably close to accurate. A few places claim that they started recording at Monnow Valley in December 1993, but I think this is people getting confused with when the label contacted the studio to reserve it vs. when the band actually arrived to record. There is a gap in Oasis's gigography between December 17th 1993 and March 23rd, 1994. We also know that there are various references to Oasis returning to the studio (Sawmill) after being deported on the trip to Amsterdam. That, I believe was in support of the Verve and puts that date on/or around February 17th, 1994 (the Verve gigs started on February 18th, so it was probably the day before). So I think it makes sense that they wouldn't start recording a few days before Christmas, so early January seems like the most likely time for them to have decamped to Monnow Valley. From all accounts, they were there for about a week or two, with mixing probably taking place back in London. Totally agree with everything your saying. The last day at 'Monnow Valley' was 26/01/1994 (the day before they played The Water Rats in London) so if they were only there a short period of time early Jan makes total sense as start date. I've got a completely unreferenced note of the Sawmill's session being from 24/02/1994 - 08/03/1994 however these dates might be at an absolute minimum. I looked up in my own notes and have the dates 8th - 23rd January 1994 for the Monnow Valley sessions. Unfortunately I didn't note any source, I somehow always took this period for being correct and verified. Might be wrong, of course. The Crimson Rambler, as promised, here's a picture (hope it works...) I took from the Loco tracking sheet. A version of Up in the Sky was apparently recorded, it's unclear of course if it's the version from the Whatever demos.  |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 20, 2019 10:10:32 GMT -5
Totally agree with everything your saying. The last day at 'Monnow Valley' was 26/01/1994 (the day before they played The Water Rats in London) so if they were only there a short period of time early Jan makes total sense as start date. I've got a completely unreferenced note of the Sawmill's session being from 24/02/1994 - 08/03/1994 however these dates might be at an absolute minimum. I looked up in my own notes and have the dates 8th - 23rd January 1994 for the Monnow Valley sessions. Unfortunately I didn't note any source, I somehow always took this period for being correct and verified. Might be wrong, of course. The Crimson Rambler , as promised, here's a picture (hope it works...) I took from the Loco tracking sheet. A version of Up in the Sky was apparently recorded, it's unclear of course if it's the version from the Whatever demos. Super picture! Really appreciate that pal. In regards to the 26th of Jan date that comes from Paolo Hewitt's book (pg 136) and these pictures dated to that said date:   www.soniceditions.com/image/noel-and-liam-at-the-monnow-valley-studios www.soniceditions.com/image/oasis-at-the-monnow-valley-studios |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 20, 2019 14:04:26 GMT -5
The more I think about it the more I agree with the tracklist to Definitely Maybe. My three least favourite songs on the album (which I still love very much) are 'Shakermaker', 'Digsy's Dinner' and 'Married With Children' and all of them give the album so much character it'd be a real shame to drop any of them. 'Half the World Away', 'Whatever', 'Fade Away' and 'Listen Up' are somewhat stronger songs but I'm not convinced I would (or could!) include any of them. Here are my thoughts why: 'Half the World Away': My favourite of the bunch & one of my favourite Oasis songs ever but unfortunately I don't think it's a great fit. I just think the album would lose momentum if was included, probably hence why the only acoustic song on Definitely Maybe is positioned last. Is the track a closer? No, not for me. And who knows, had the track been recorded during the album sessions who's to say that the mellotron & drum beat had been written yet? And they're superb additions! 'Whatever': Again, I don't see this track fitting neatly. According to Noel he saved it until they had the money to get a full orchestra to do the song justice. If true, including it on Definitely Maybe means having a lesser version. 'Sad Song' was recorded on the 22nd June 1994 because of a problem with the manufacturing of 'Definitely Maybe' meaning an additional song was needed. Therefore you can't include the official version recorded in July because it's too late. 'Fade Away': A tidy fit for the album, but in my opinion it doesn't have the character of the other three tracks. Apparently it was slated to be on 'Definitely Maybe' until 'Slide Away' was written during the album sessions and was then dropped. I like most would agree with this choice and would find that including both would make the album a little bit too long (56m 14s). 'Listen Up': Seeing as the song was written and recorded in July (for the reason stated above) it's too late to hypothetically include it. Anyone who hypothetically includes this song may as well include 'Some Might Say' as that was written by July too, having been demoed in the same session. The best I can do in terms of an alternative tracklist is dropping 'Married With Children', ending on 'Slide Away' and including 'Fade Away' somewhere. Would I vouch for that being better though? Hmm... Not really. Saving it would have probably been my prefered choice (with hindsight of course  ). |
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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Jan 20, 2019 14:10:30 GMT -5
Been living my life too much as a Heathen Chemist when I should rather Be Here Now instead.
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Post by World71R on Jan 20, 2019 19:25:18 GMT -5
I wonder what kind of LP4 Noel was imagining when he was making those "Be Here Now is good, but the next one will be better" comments in 1997. I can't imagine he envisaged something as pessimistic and morose as SOTSOG became, although he did want to approach it in "a different frame of mind" - did he mean emotionally or musically? It would have been cool if his optimistic frame of mind had merged with the desire to experiment at some point, we never really got an Oasis track that was both happy and different, other than maybe The Importance of Being Idle, which was fantastic. Having just listened to OK Computer and seeing some similarities, in some ways, between that and SOTSOG, I could imagine Noel was looking to go for an evolution like what Radiohead did between The Bends and OKC to where there was more electronic work and different influences incorporated into the sound to help broaden the band's sound. So I think he meant a musical approach, but then with Guigs & Bonehead leaving and Noel coming off of cocaine but getting looped into prescription drugs, it turned into an emotional approach and had an impact on the musical approach, since he really seemed to rush the songs to get it out as a product and not an actual work like he alluded to in '97. Noel really just needed to get off coke and then have some time to work through prescription drugs and the comedown, as well as creating some new songs and sounds, and working with a new producer, then really work on a new album. A 2002/3 release, with a mix of different songs from between 1998-2002 and some other songs and sounds that naturally would've come with the process, would've been optimal. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 20, 2019 22:35:30 GMT -5
I wonder what kind of LP4 Noel was imagining when he was making those "Be Here Now is good, but the next one will be better" comments in 1997. I can't imagine he envisaged something as pessimistic and morose as SOTSOG became, although he did want to approach it in "a different frame of mind" - did he mean emotionally or musically? It would have been cool if his optimistic frame of mind had merged with the desire to experiment at some point, we never really got an Oasis track that was both happy and different, other than maybe The Importance of Being Idle, which was fantastic. Having just listened to OK Computer and seeing some similarities, in some ways, between that and SOTSOG, I could imagine Noel was looking to go for an evolution like what Radiohead did between The Bends and OKC to where there was more electronic work and different influences incorporated into the sound to help broaden the band's sound. So I think he meant a musical approach, but then with Guigs & Bonehead leaving and Noel coming off of cocaine but getting looped into prescription drugs, it turned into an emotional approach and had an impact on the musical approach, since he really seemed to rush the songs to get it out as a product and not an actual work like he alluded to in '97. Noel really just needed to get off coke and then have some time to work through prescription drugs and the comedown, as well as creating some new songs and sounds, and working with a new producer, then really work on a new album. A 2002/3 release, with a mix of different songs from between 1998-2002 and some other songs and sounds that naturally would've come with the process, would've been optimal. Noel started out on the right foot. New producer (Mark Stent), recording in a private mansion in France, no booze allowed. The ingredients were there. - Fucking In The Bushes - Go Let It Out - Who Feels Love? - Gas Panic - Roll It Over These are all good songs. Different sounding songs. Steps in a more bold direction. Especially for Oasis in 1999. The album gets bogged down with some Dad Rock tunes like Sunday Morning Call and Where Did It All Go Wrong (A tune I enjoy a lot) but having them back to back doesn't show Oasis in their best light. Little James sounds cool but the lyrics, I don't know I was ready for that in 1999/2000. Then we get Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is and I Can See A Liar. Two under cooked songs. This is when Oasis began half the record is good trend that they never overcame until they broke up. Noel was heading down the right path initially........ |
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Post by freddy838 on Jan 21, 2019 1:56:34 GMT -5
The more I think about it the more I agree with the tracklist to Definitely Maybe. My three least favourite songs on the album (which I still love very much) are 'Shakermaker', 'Digsy's Dinner' and 'Married With Children' and all of them give the album so much character it'd be a real shame to drop any of them. 'Half the World Away', 'Whatever', 'Fade Away' and 'Listen Up' are somewhat stronger songs but I'm not convinced I would (or could!) include any of them. Here are my thoughts why: 'Half the World Away': My favourite of the bunch & one of my favourite Oasis songs ever but unfortunately I don't think it's a great fit. I just think the album would lose momentum if was included, probably hence why the only acoustic song on Definitely Maybe is positioned last. Is the track a closer? No, not for me. And who knows, had the track been recorded during the album sessions who's to say that the mellotron & drum beat had been written yet? And they're superb additions! 'Whatever': Again, I don't see this track fitting neatly. According to Noel he saved it until they had the money to get a full orchestra to do the song justice. If true, including it on Definitely Maybe means having a lesser version. 'Sad Song' was recorded on the 22nd June 1994 because of a problem with the manufacturing of 'Definitely Maybe' meaning an additional song was needed. Therefore you can't include the official version recorded in July because it's too late. 'Fade Away': A tidy fit for the album, but in my opinion it doesn't have the character of the other three tracks. Apparently it was slated to be on 'Definitely Maybe' until 'Slide Away' was written during the album sessions and was then dropped. I like most would agree with this choice and would find that including both would make the album a little bit too long (56m 14s). 'Listen Up': Seeing as the song was written and recorded in July (for the reason stated above) it's too late to hypothetically include it. Anyone who hypothetically includes this song may as well include 'Some Might Say' as that was written by July too, having been demoed in the same session. The best I can do in terms of an alternative tracklist is dropping 'Married With Children', ending on 'Slide Away' and including 'Fade Away' somewhere. Would I vouch for that being better though? Hmm... Not really. Saving it would have probably been my prefered choice (with hindsight of course ). What about Headshrinker, I think that was an early one wasnt it? Would have fit DM quite well I'd have thought. |
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Post by World71R on Jan 21, 2019 2:00:15 GMT -5
Having just listened to OK Computer and seeing some similarities, in some ways, between that and SOTSOG, I could imagine Noel was looking to go for an evolution like what Radiohead did between The Bends and OKC to where there was more electronic work and different influences incorporated into the sound to help broaden the band's sound. So I think he meant a musical approach, but then with Guigs & Bonehead leaving and Noel coming off of cocaine but getting looped into prescription drugs, it turned into an emotional approach and had an impact on the musical approach, since he really seemed to rush the songs to get it out as a product and not an actual work like he alluded to in '97. Noel really just needed to get off coke and then have some time to work through prescription drugs and the comedown, as well as creating some new songs and sounds, and working with a new producer, then really work on a new album. A 2002/3 release, with a mix of different songs from between 1998-2002 and some other songs and sounds that naturally would've come with the process, would've been optimal. Noel started out on the right foot. New producer (Mark Stent), recording in a private mansion in France, no booze allowed. The ingredients were there. - Fucking In The Bushes - Go Let It Out - Who Feels Love? - Gas Panic - Roll It Over These are all good songs. Different sounding songs. Steps in a more bold direction. Especially for Oasis in 1999. The album gets bogged down with some Dad Rock tunes like Sunday Morning Call and Where Did It All Go Wrong (A tune I enjoy a lot) but having them back to back doesn't show Oasis in their best light. Little James sounds cool but the lyrics, I don't know I was ready for that in 1999/2000. Then we get Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is and I Can See A Liar. Two under cooked songs. This is when Oasis began half the record is good trend that they never overcame until they broke up. Noel was heading down the right path initially........ That is true. I even think Sunday Morning Call and Where Did it All Go Wrong? both had potential but didn't get treated properly, as you can see by the acoustic version of SMC and the demo version of the latter. Even Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is tries to be different to some degree but just is under-cooked in its treatment, as you said. Full On was the song Noel should've pushed for Liam to sing, instead of that, and you can't forget Let's All Make Believe. With Full On, LAMB, the demo version of Where Did it All Go Wrong?, and a more acoustic SMC (or even One Way Road which is a similar song), you have a good nine tracks. The problem with the era is Noel, simple as that. Too bogged down from not sticking to a clear and focused direction, with the music echoing that. I think the exit of Bonehead and Guigs in the early stages of the album messed things up and Noel should've taken a break after that to assess the direction of the band and get new members. SOTSOG suffers from over production, to some degree, but oddly enough it also suffers from being under-developed in some places, as a result of them leaving which messed with the direction of the sessions and caused Noel to seek other means of filling the soundscape. |
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Post by mimmihopps on Jan 21, 2019 5:32:07 GMT -5
10 year ago today, 21st January I saw Oasis for the 3rd time at Heineken Music Hall in Amsterdam.
It was 2 of my last Oasis gigs.
Sold out in an hour. Support act was Twisted Wheel.
Oasis postponned their gig in Dusseldorf a couple of days ago regarding Liam's voice issue.
Me and my friends were not sure if they were going to play in Amsterdam or not at that day.
After queuing outside for hours and freezing to death, We got barrier at the front of Noel.
F**ing 10 years, 10 years!!!
I saw Liam and Noel at the same venue last year.
It's never same. Oasis were/are/will always be one of the best for me.
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Jan 21, 2019 6:44:33 GMT -5
The more I think about it the more I agree with the tracklist to Definitely Maybe. My three least favourite songs on the album (which I still love very much) are 'Shakermaker', 'Digsy's Dinner' and 'Married With Children' and all of them give the album so much character it'd be a real shame to drop any of them. 'Half the World Away', 'Whatever', 'Fade Away' and 'Listen Up' are somewhat stronger songs but I'm not convinced I would (or could!) include any of them. Here are my thoughts why: 'Half the World Away': My favourite of the bunch & one of my favourite Oasis songs ever but unfortunately I don't think it's a great fit. I just think the album would lose momentum if was included, probably hence why the only acoustic song on Definitely Maybe is positioned last. Is the track a closer? No, not for me. And who knows, had the track been recorded during the album sessions who's to say that the mellotron & drum beat had been written yet? And they're superb additions! 'Whatever': Again, I don't see this track fitting neatly. According to Noel he saved it until they had the money to get a full orchestra to do the song justice. If true, including it on Definitely Maybe means having a lesser version. 'Sad Song' was recorded on the 22nd June 1994 because of a problem with the manufacturing of 'Definitely Maybe' meaning an additional song was needed. Therefore you can't include the official version recorded in July because it's too late. 'Fade Away': A tidy fit for the album, but in my opinion it doesn't have the character of the other three tracks. Apparently it was slated to be on 'Definitely Maybe' until 'Slide Away' was written during the album sessions and was then dropped. I like most would agree with this choice and would find that including both would make the album a little bit too long (56m 14s). 'Listen Up': Seeing as the song was written and recorded in July (for the reason stated above) it's too late to hypothetically include it. Anyone who hypothetically includes this song may as well include 'Some Might Say' as that was written by July too, having been demoed in the same session. The best I can do in terms of an alternative tracklist is dropping 'Married With Children', ending on 'Slide Away' and including 'Fade Away' somewhere. Would I vouch for that being better though? Hmm... Not really. Saving it would have probably been my prefered choice (with hindsight of course ). What about Headshrinker, I think that was an early one wasnt it? Would have fit DM quite well I'd have thought. Yeah that could have potentially have been on there (amongst the other DM B-Sides, 'All Around the World', 'Don't Go Away', 'Going Nowhere', 'Hello', 'Rockin' Chair', 'She's Electric' and others). I love that track and but I think it's in a similar position to 'Fade Away'. To me it'd be between that and 'Bring It On Down' to which it would narrowly lose out. |
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Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 21, 2019 6:58:40 GMT -5
Noel started out on the right foot. New producer (Mark Stent), recording in a private mansion in France, no booze allowed. The ingredients were there. - Fucking In The Bushes - Go Let It Out - Who Feels Love? - Gas Panic - Roll It Over These are all good songs. Different sounding songs. Steps in a more bold direction. Especially for Oasis in 1999. The album gets bogged down with some Dad Rock tunes like Sunday Morning Call and Where Did It All Go Wrong (A tune I enjoy a lot) but having them back to back doesn't show Oasis in their best light. Little James sounds cool but the lyrics, I don't know I was ready for that in 1999/2000. Then we get Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is and I Can See A Liar. Two under cooked songs. This is when Oasis began half the record is good trend that they never overcame until they broke up. Noel was heading down the right path initially........ That is true. I even think Sunday Morning Call and Where Did it All Go Wrong? both had potential but didn't get treated properly, as you can see by the acoustic version of SMC and the demo version of the latter. Even Put Yer Money Where Yer Mouth Is tries to be different to some degree but just is under-cooked in its treatment, as you said. Full On was the song Noel should've pushed for Liam to sing, instead of that, and you can't forget Let's All Make Believe. With Full On, LAMB, the demo version of Where Did it All Go Wrong?, and a more acoustic SMC (or even One Way Road which is a similar song), you have a good nine tracks. The problem with the era is Noel, simple as that. Too bogged down from not sticking to a clear and focused direction, with the music echoing that. I think the exit of Bonehead and Guigs in the early stages of the album messed things up and Noel should've taken a break after that to assess the direction of the band and get new members. SOTSOG suffers from over production, to some degree, but oddly enough it also suffers from being under-developed in some places, as a result of them leaving which messed with the direction of the sessions and caused Noel to seek other means of filling the soundscape. Bottom line is Noel didn’t have the songs. Didn’t have enough material to round out a solid 10-11 track album that Noel boasted about for much of 1999. People always act like LAMB is the magic silver bullet. It’s not. It would help but even with its inclusion it still is lacking. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5