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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 13:04:47 GMT -5
The bit in the HFB making of documentary where he says to the choir "You did a great job" in a funny voice is really cringe too! he sees it as their job so why should he thank them? total ass tbh, literally takes nothing just to say "oh yea, top guys" someone said to me once that the people who come into money who are the nasty bastards, the people who are born into a privileged family with a lot of money are usually ok because they dont see money as important, Ive met a few people that are lords of this and that, lovely people, its the wankers who win the lottery etc that suddenly start treating people like shit, Noel went from nothing to everything in about 2 years. I remember meeting lee evans, great guy, really thankful for simply going to see his show and said if it wasnt for the fans and the people who helped him he wouldnt of got anywhere, literally the opposite to Noel who sees his success as "well I didnt ask for a record contract so fuck off" he must have enough money to wipe his ass on yet he still worries and does everything dictated on price. I can't believe they offered £500 to remix the CY tracks. What a low blow!
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Post by glider on Feb 15, 2017 13:07:34 GMT -5
TL;DR: Noel and Liam are pretentious douchbags. I think they are protective of their fame, more like. I believe when you're that famous, you can't really trust anyone. Noel praised a lot of musicians he worked with, so something must have happened between that Gaz dude and Noel. Noel still thinks he's the most relevant songwriter of his generation and expects his third album to be a smashing hit. In reality it will sell like CY in the beginning, plus with tour momentum behind it, and quickly fall like a rock in the charts. This mentality is why 2000s Oasis is so bland and dull - thinking you can just use your same ol' formula and fans will love it (and it works) rather than taking risks and introducing new audiences is what keeps the fanbase contained. A bit like the Ashcroft syndrome "Let me come out with a rehash of Urban Hymns that really is just love songs about my wife" over and over again to convince people he's still that great. HFB1 and CY suffered from this stigma. WTSRTS is a tune I love because of the production rather than the songwriting (which is some of his finest in years I'll admit). Noel lost his "godlike genuis" status as soon as he decided to make Heathen Chemistry conventional rock. When you embark on a new sonic journey, you better stick with it.
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Post by andymorris on Feb 15, 2017 13:11:19 GMT -5
I think they are protective of their fame, more like. I believe when you're that famous, you can't really trust anyone. Noel praised a lot of musicians he worked with, so something must have happened between that Gaz dude and Noel. Noel still thinks he's the most relevant songwriter of his generation and expects his third album to be a smashing hit. In reality it will sell like CY in the beginning, plus with tour momentum behind it, and quickly fall like a rock in the charts. This mentality is why 2000s Oasis is so bland and dull - thinking you can just use your same ol' formula and fans will love it (and it works) rather than taking risks and introducing new audiences is what keeps the fanbase contained. A bit like the Ashcroft syndrome "Let me come out with a rehash of Urban Hymns that really is just love songs about my wife" over and over again to convince people he's still that great. HFB1 and CY suffered from this stigma. WTSRTS is a tune I love because of the production rather than the songwriting (which is some of his finest in years I'll admit). Noel lost his "godlike genuis" status as soon as he decided to make Heathen Chemistry conventional rock. When you embark on a new sonic journey, you better stick with it. Noel thinks marketing, he's a business boss. He has employees, a manager, a touring crew to pay. That may be sad, but to me that's the main reason why he will never make a "far out" record.
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 13:13:44 GMT -5
I think they are protective of their fame, more like. I believe when you're that famous, you can't really trust anyone. Noel praised a lot of musicians he worked with, so something must have happened between that Gaz dude and Noel. Noel still thinks he's the most relevant songwriter of his generation and expects his third album to be a smashing hit. In reality it will sell like CY in the beginning, plus with tour momentum behind it, and quickly fall like a rock in the charts. This mentality is why 2000s Oasis is so bland and dull - thinking you can just use your same ol' formula and fans will love it (and it works) rather than taking risks and introducing new audiences is what keeps the fanbase contained. A bit like the Ashcroft syndrome "Let me come out with a rehash of Urban Hymns that really is just love songs about my wife" over and over again to convince people he's still that great. HFB1 and CY suffered from this stigma. WTSRTS is a tune I love because of the production rather than the songwriting (which is some of his finest in years I'll admit). Noel lost his "godlike genuis" status as soon as he decided to make Heathen Chemistry conventional rock. When you embark on a new sonic journey, you better stick with it. I was in a taxi home last night and Fucking In The Bushes came on and I thought to myself: how, in the space of two years, can you go from making Prodigy style bangers with drum loops and mad samples to Probably All In The Mind!?
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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 13:15:26 GMT -5
TL;DR: Noel and Liam are pretentious douchbags. I think they are protective of their fame, more like. I believe when you're that famous, you can't really trust anyone.Noel praised a lot of musicians he worked with, so something must have happened between that Gaz dude and Noel. There you go. When you have to claw your way to the top, it makes you very protective of who you let in, into your inner circle. Imagine how many one time friends turned out not to be friends? Or who in their family they can't talk to? It has to affect your outlook when it comes to your day-to-day interactions. Plus, as you said, it's not like Noel hasn't praised musicians before. And it's not like he doesn't use the same musicians over and over again. If he's such a pretentious douchebag then why do Gem, Mike Rowe, Chris, and hell, even Andy still have good relationships with him? Obviously, some people are painting with broad strokes. That's not say that Noel isn't capable of being a douche, but as always, I find it a head scratcher when people paint both Liam and Noel with broad strokes as if all people aren't shades of grey.
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Post by glider on Feb 15, 2017 13:20:55 GMT -5
spaneli Pretentious was probably a poor choice of words on my part. Protective of their fame does make more sense but how well has that played out for both of them? When U2 screwed up with Rattle and Hum, they didn't decide to try and rehash Unforgettable Fire or Joshua Tree - they went full speed ahead with a new sound. Their fame got even wider because of Achtung and Zooropa. The reason you see such a falloff between the success of Oasis in the 90s and 2000s is because of poor artistic decisions and inability to climb out of the hole they dug themselves into. One thing though - if Noel and Liam were so adamant on playing it safe why have the democratic songwriting?
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Post by andymorris on Feb 15, 2017 13:21:04 GMT -5
Exactly, everyone can be a douche, Well except me obviously.
I really can't believe Noel has stolen anything, he borrows just like every musicians though.
The AA were credited and paid for their work, it's in the credits for CS, end of the story.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 13:21:17 GMT -5
I think they are protective of their fame, more like. I believe when you're that famous, you can't really trust anyone. Noel praised a lot of musicians he worked with, so something must have happened between that Gaz dude and Noel. Noel still thinks he's the most relevant songwriter of his generation and expects his third album to be a smashing hit. In reality it will sell like CY in the beginning, plus with tour momentum behind it, and quickly fall like a rock in the charts. This mentality is why 2000s Oasis is so bland and dull - thinking you can just use your same ol' formula and fans will love it (and it works) rather than taking risks and introducing new audiences is what keeps the fanbase contained. A bit like the Ashcroft syndrome "Let me come out with a rehash of Urban Hymns that really is just love songs about my wife" over and over again to convince people he's still that great. HFB1 and CY suffered from this stigma. WTSRTS is a tune I love because of the production rather than the songwriting (which is some of his finest in years I'll admit). Noel lost his "godlike genuis" status as soon as he decided to make Heathen Chemistry conventional rock. When you embark on a new sonic journey, you better stick with it. Tbf to Noel, it's not like he was in the best mental state when he made HC, literally and metaphorically. He had pushed on BHN, which got slapped back. He pushed on SOTSOG, which got slapped back. He was off drugs, coming off a failed marriage, probably lost a lot of "friends" after his partying hey dey, and lost half his band. Not surprising that he decided to retreat. I think that people forget that Liam and Noel, at their core, are human.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 13:26:57 GMT -5
spaneli Pretentious was probably a poor choice of words on my part. Protective of their fame does make more sense but how well has that played out for both of them? When U2 screwed up with Rattle and Hum, they didn't decide to try and rehash Unforgettable Fire or Joshua Tree - they went full speed ahead with a new sound. Their fame got even wider because of Achtung and Zooropa. The reason you see such a falloff between the success of Oasis in the 90s and 2000s is because of poor artistic decisions and inability to climb out of the hole they dug themselves into. One thing though - if Noel and Liam were so adamant on playing it safe why have the democratic songwriting? I would say that U2 were weirdly better suited to be more well adjusted to fame, considering their political bent, and more solid power structure behind them, that contributed to them continually pushing. U2 had a far different mission statement on the kind of music they wanted to make than Noel ever had. Also, combine that which how much longer it took for them to find success than say an Oasis. Oasis' greatest triumph is how quickly they became big, their biggest flaw was how quickly they became big.
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Post by andymorris on Feb 15, 2017 13:29:38 GMT -5
spaneli Pretentious was probably a poor choice of words on my part. Protective of their fame does make more sense but how well has that played out for both of them? When U2 screwed up with Rattle and Hum, they didn't decide to try and rehash Unforgettable Fire or Joshua Tree - they went full speed ahead with a new sound. Their fame got even wider because of Achtung and Zooropa. The reason you see such a falloff between the success of Oasis in the 90s and 2000s is because of poor artistic decisions and inability to climb out of the hole they dug themselves into. One thing though - if Noel and Liam were so adamant on playing it safe why have the democratic songwriting? I would say that U2 were weirdly better suited to be more well adjusted to fame, considering their political bent, and more solid power structure behind them, that contributed to them continually pushing. U2 had a far different mission statement on the kind of music they wanted to make than Noel ever had. Also, combine that which how much longer it took for them to find success than say an Oasis. Oasis' greatest triumph is how quickly they became big, their biggest flaw was how quickly they became big. And Bono is far more a douchebag compared to Noel. His business is political songs and the guy is selling out whenever he can. At least, Noel never fell in that sad category of musicians.
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 13:37:13 GMT -5
"Hold my wrists!" Gaz begged. "I need to be restrained!" "OK" whispered Noel. "But wouldn't it be easier to just delete your Facebook account?"
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 13:44:01 GMT -5
I really can't believe Noel has stolen anything, he borrows just like every musicians though. Yeah, Noel has never stolen anything. The Griffiths brothers certainly didn't need to take him to court to get the co-writing credits they deserved...
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 14:03:38 GMT -5
"Let me take a closer look at your manhood..." Gaz whispered, slowly pulling down the zip. "'OK," Noel replied "But it's actually called a cagoule."
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 15, 2017 14:06:21 GMT -5
This thread is going mental! Let's all try to calm down and realise that the album will be released in about 20 years time as long as there's money to be made. If we're lucky, we'll get bonus tracks when purchasing through the Amazon brain implant or something.
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Post by glider on Feb 15, 2017 14:09:07 GMT -5
I really can't believe Noel has stolen anything, he borrows just like every musicians though. Yeah, Noel has never stolen anything. The Griffiths brothers certainly didn't need to take him to court to get the co-writing credits they deserved...
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 14:09:17 GMT -5
This thread is going mental! Let's all try to calm down and realise that the album will be released in about 20 years time as long as there's money to be made. If we're lucky, we'll get bonus tracks when purchasing through the Amazon brain implant or something. This is the new BHN reissue thread :-)
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 14:09:51 GMT -5
Yeah, Noel has never stolen anything. The Griffiths brothers certainly didn't need to take him to court to get the co-writing credits they deserved... And that was AFTER the Rocking Chair court case right!?
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 15, 2017 14:13:08 GMT -5
This thread is going mental! Let's all try to calm down and realise that the album will be released in about 20 years time as long as there's money to be made. If we're lucky, we'll get bonus tracks when purchasing through the Amazon brain implant or something. This is the new BHN reissue thread :-) That makes sense, I'm pretty sure the thread can reach 300 pages in 20 years.
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Post by mimmihopps on Feb 15, 2017 14:47:48 GMT -5
This thread is going mental! Let's all try to calm down and realise that the album will be released in about 20 years time as long as there's money to be made. If we're lucky, we'll get bonus tracks when purchasing through the Amazon brain implant or something. This is the new BHN reissue thread :-) "This is how it's intended to be" - Ignition Team
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Post by The Milkman & The Riverman on Feb 15, 2017 14:51:07 GMT -5
Am i the only one who never gave a single fuck about this AA thing ?
I also think as much as Noel emerges as a conservative pussy in the whole story AA just can't get over the fact that he aborted their sessions and really are taking this 2 year drama a bit too far. The thing about the Right Stuff and The Mexican ? They were working on the arrangements and production, as far as i understand, that he eventually didn't use. Even if he got inspired during the sessions with them, he recorded it, produced it and wrote it by himself. Is a guitar chord pattern and a vocal line around it a song ? I don't know, ask Live Forever about it. That's how Noel works.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 16:34:29 GMT -5
Am i the only one who never gave a single fuck about this AA thing ? I also think as much as Noel emerges as a conservative pussy in the whole story AA just can't get over the fact that he aborted their sessions and really are taking this 2 year drama a bit too far. The thing about the Right Stuff and The Mexican ? They were working on the arrangements and production, as far as i understand, that he eventually didn't use. Even if he got inspired during the sessions with them, he recorded it, produced it and wrote it by himself. Is a guitar chord pattern and a vocal line around it a song ? I don't know, ask Live Forever about it. That's how Noel works. I think AA and Noel have a fundamental difference in what they think constitutes writing a song. Based on what I've read I tend to side with Noel on that. Once you've strummed it and come up with a melody it's yours imo. What I side with AA on is the pathetic way Noel's treated them ever since his management convinced him to do HFB. The only reason he tried to drag their name through the mud was to divert attention from his own refusal to release something different after he found out he could make Oasis albums (minus Liam) for years to come. That's his prerogative tbf, but at least pay the guys who've devoted a load of time to this something vaguely fair. I suspect that it's not about what it costs, but that paying a significant amount of money would legimitise it in some way. That doesn't fit with the narrative he's spun about AA producing absolute shite (which he proclaimed as genius a matter of months before HFB came out). They say "never meet your heroes". In Noel's case I suspect there's a lot in that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 16:43:27 GMT -5
I still think its weird that Noel binned off the AA album due to it not being what he would want but then went back to them to remix CY, you dont go back to someone who didnt do a good enough job before, smacks of Noel being open to something abit different but when it boils down to actually having to release it, he just cant do it, too scared of it getting panned.
the AA album couldve been released with no issue, if its shit, blame it on AA (hes good at that anyway), if its good then you take all the credit for it (hes good at that too), he already had his safe album out there to cover over any embarrassment should it of tanked.
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Post by mossy on Feb 15, 2017 16:52:22 GMT -5
Am i the only one who never gave a single fuck about this AA thing ? I also think as much as Noel emerges as a conservative pussy in the whole story AA just can't get over the fact that he aborted their sessions and really are taking this 2 year drama a bit too far. The thing about the Right Stuff and The Mexican ? They were working on the arrangements and production, as far as i understand, that he eventually didn't use. Even if he got inspired during the sessions with them, he recorded it, produced it and wrote it by himself. Is a guitar chord pattern and a vocal line around it a song ? I don't know, ask Live Forever about it. That's how Noel works. Once you've strummed it and come up with a melody it's yours imo. I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. But they clearly believe they do deserve writing credits and we know Noel has brazenly stolen from collaborators in the past (lyrically and musically). And there are people saying if they truly wrote the songs then they should sue, but it's clearly not as simple as that. Noel will be able to afford better lawyers, it'll be hard to prove either way and maybe they just can't be arsed with the hastle for the sake of a few quid when they've got their own projects to be getting on with.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 17:02:13 GMT -5
Once you've strummed it and come up with a melody it's yours imo. I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. I don't know. Impression I'm getting with those two is that Noel came up with something, they spent a lot of time filling it out, then Noel took it all back and didn't give them the amount of credit they think they deserve for the bit between him strumming something on an acoustic guitar and the versions that ended up on Chasing Yesterday. Like I say, I suspect it's a difference in opinion on what constitutes writing a song. But totally take the point on Noel stealing before. A little bit of my love for Oasis died the first time I heard Feel The Pain.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 15, 2017 17:05:12 GMT -5
I think their point is that on Right Stuff, Mexican (and Crimson Rambler) Noel didn't strum it. They created something first then took it to him to strum over. Without having been in the room witnessing who recorded what and read what was stipulated in the contract regards intellectual property it's impossible for us to say whether they truly deserve writing credits or not. I don't know. Impression I'm getting with those two is that Noel came up with something, they spent a lot of time filling it out, then Noel took it all back and didn't give them the amount of credit they think they deserve for the bit between him strumming something on an acoustic guitar and the versions that ended up on Chasing Yesterday. Like I say, I suspect it's a difference in opinion on what constitutes writing a song. But totally take the point on Noel stealing before. A little bit of my love for Oasis died the first time I heard Feel The Pain. That's about what they were saying. In one of the posts Gaz says that Noel thinks that the person who strums it and sings it, is the sole songwriter.
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