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Post by Let It Bleed on Feb 10, 2017 16:46:39 GMT -5
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Post by spaneli on Feb 10, 2017 17:15:42 GMT -5
Thanks very much theseventwenty for asking Gaz & sharing his detailed answer with us! But who knows? Gaz throws a ton of guesses out there of why it was scrapped other than one possible reason. That given time, and once the enthusiasm had faded, that Noel re-listened to the tracks and possibly thought that they weren't that good. Not that there couldn't be other reasons, like Noel being lazy. But this is also another possible, and valid, conclusion. Well, if the initial album the AA had been working on while, unbeknownst to them, Noel was recording the classic-sounding first HFB album, was really so bad that Noel eventually couldn't release it, no final mixes being able to salvage the bad quality of it all, then why would he get in touch with the AA once again a few years later to ask them to make an EP of remixes of "Chasing yesterday" tracks?
Noel loved the AA's previous work, praised their remix of "Falling down", released "Shoot a hole into the sun" & played it over the PA at the beginning of his gigs during the tour, plus he kept "The Mexican" & "The right stuff" for his second album. In regard of all that I think it has more to do with Noel's laziness to complete, release & promote a second album as the tour for the first HFB's album wore on much longer than expected, as well as perhaps Noel's reluctance to venture out of his comfort zone which could possibly have left him with something too far-out to handle, & he didn't know how to mix it properly... We'll probably never know why the first AA project was never completed & shelved (or even destroyed, claims Noel, though I doubt he really had the only existing copy, the AA must've kept at least another in their vaults unless they're complete dumbasses), but I don't believe it was only or mainly because it didn't sound good. If you're not satisfied with someone's work, you don't ask them to work for you on another project. Just because you leave a project doesn't mean you don't have to work with those people again. I think you're making a false assumption
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Post by underneaththesky on Feb 10, 2017 19:11:18 GMT -5
what a bore
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Post by matt on Feb 10, 2017 19:48:08 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but there's nothing more to say than..... FUCK YOU NOEL YOU COWARDLY SHIT BUCKET, AND FUCK YOUR BLAND DEBUT WITH YOUR SHITTY BLAND PRODUCTION AND FUCK YOUR MANAGEMENT. There are more eloquent ways of putting it but I can't be arsed. P.S. Thanks theseventwenty for the investigative work. Lovely stuff ("not my words, but the words of Shakin Stevens").
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Post by Binary Sunset on Feb 10, 2017 19:48:17 GMT -5
I believe everything he says. Noel is a great talent, and I'm glad how Chasing Yesterday turned out, but he can definitely be a dick
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Post by matt on Feb 10, 2017 20:13:37 GMT -5
You know, I always thought The Mexican was too bland for the Amorphous Androgynous, so I was surprised when it was revealed they'd co-written it.
No surprise then to read that it was stripped of all its sonic brilliance to a mere plodder.
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Post by matt on Feb 10, 2017 20:18:44 GMT -5
Thanks very much theseventwenty for asking Gaz & sharing his detailed answer with us! But who knows? Gaz throws a ton of guesses out there of why it was scrapped other than one possible reason. That given time, and once the enthusiasm had faded, that Noel re-listened to the tracks and possibly thought that they weren't that good. Not that there couldn't be other reasons, like Noel being lazy. But this is also another possible, and valid, conclusion. Well, if the initial album the AA had been working on while, unbeknownst to them, Noel was recording the classic-sounding first HFB album, was really so bad that Noel eventually couldn't release it, no final mixes being able to salvage the bad quality of it all, then why would he get in touch with the AA once again a few years later to ask them to make an EP of remixes of "Chasing yesterday" tracks? Noel loved the AA's previous work, praised their remix of "Falling down", released "Shoot a hole into the sun" & played it over the PA at the beginning of his gigs during the tour, plus he kept "The Mexican" & "The right stuff" for his second album. In regard of all that I think it has more to do with Noel's laziness to complete, release & promote a second album as the tour for the first HFB's album wore on much longer than expected, as well as perhaps Noel's reluctance to venture out of his comfort zone which could possibly have left him with something too far-out to handle, & he didn't know how to mix it properly... We'll probably never know why the first AA project was never completed & shelved (or even destroyed, claims Noel, though I doubt he really had the only existing copy, the AA must've kept at least another in their vaults unless they're complete dumbasses), but I don't believe it was only or mainly because it didn't sound good. If you're not satisfied with someone's work, you don't ask them to work for you on another project. Yeah, it's hard to believe that Noel was 'unsatisfied' with the recordings. It's difficult to go from stating the album is 'fuckin brilliant' to 'shit' in a matter of mere months. If I recall correctly, Noel's management persuaded him not to release the AA album. If ever there was an example of management creatively inhibiting their stars with bad influence, then this is one.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 10, 2017 20:36:35 GMT -5
Thanks very much theseventwenty for asking Gaz & sharing his detailed answer with us! Well, if the initial album the AA had been working on while, unbeknownst to them, Noel was recording the classic-sounding first HFB album, was really so bad that Noel eventually couldn't release it, no final mixes being able to salvage the bad quality of it all, then why would he get in touch with the AA once again a few years later to ask them to make an EP of remixes of "Chasing yesterday" tracks? Noel loved the AA's previous work, praised their remix of "Falling down", released "Shoot a hole into the sun" & played it over the PA at the beginning of his gigs during the tour, plus he kept "The Mexican" & "The right stuff" for his second album. In regard of all that I think it has more to do with Noel's laziness to complete, release & promote a second album as the tour for the first HFB's album wore on much longer than expected, as well as perhaps Noel's reluctance to venture out of his comfort zone which could possibly have left him with something too far-out to handle, & he didn't know how to mix it properly... We'll probably never know why the first AA project was never completed & shelved (or even destroyed, claims Noel, though I doubt he really had the only existing copy, the AA must've kept at least another in their vaults unless they're complete dumbasses), but I don't believe it was only or mainly because it didn't sound good. If you're not satisfied with someone's work, you don't ask them to work for you on another project. Yeah, it's hard to believe that Noel was 'unsatisfied' with the recordings. It's difficult to go from stating the album is 'fuckin brilliant' to 'shit' in a matter of mere months. If I recall correctly, Noel's management persuaded him not to release the AA album. If ever there was an example of management creatively inhibiting their stars with bad influence, then this is one. I mean, it's not like Noel has ever gone from calling something brilliant, to shit before in months right? *cough* BHN** cough**DOYS*** People are easily forgetful, when this actually perfectly fits into Noels previous pattern
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Post by matt on Feb 10, 2017 20:39:21 GMT -5
Yeah, it's hard to believe that Noel was 'unsatisfied' with the recordings. It's difficult to go from stating the album is 'fuckin brilliant' to 'shit' in a matter of mere months. If I recall correctly, Noel's management persuaded him not to release the AA album. If ever there was an example of management creatively inhibiting their stars with bad influence, then this is one. I mean, it's not like Noel has ever gone from calling something brilliant, to shit before in months right? *cough* BHN** cough**DOYS*** People are easily forgetful, when this actually perfectly fits into Noels previous pattern Did he state Dig Out Your Soul was shit?! Usually its the case he hypes up new albums merely for commercial reasons, but he genuinely seemed enthusiastic about the AA album. I think he just went cowardly personally.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 10, 2017 20:57:53 GMT -5
I mean, it's not like Noel has ever gone from calling something brilliant, to shit before in months right? *cough* BHN** cough**DOYS*** People are easily forgetful, when this actually perfectly fits into Noels previous pattern Did he state Dig Out Your Soul was shit?! Usually its the case he hypes up new albums merely for commercial reasons, but he genuinely seemed enthusiastic about the AA album. I think he just went cowardly personally. He didn't flat out say it was shit, but he started to walk back that album super quick. It took a couple months before he started dropping the "album should 20-30% better because of said reasons" line. And we all know that he started hedging his bets on BHN almost immediately. Like Noel has walked back albums and songs, and has always been fickle. So why does it surprise everyone now that he did it again?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 21:01:46 GMT -5
Did he state Dig Out Your Soul was shit?! Usually its the case he hypes up new albums merely for commercial reasons, but he genuinely seemed enthusiastic about the AA album. I think he just went cowardly personally. He didn't flat out say it was shit, but he started to walk back that album super quick. It took a couple months before he started dropping the "album should 20-30% better because of said reasons" line. And we all know that he started hedging his bets on BHN almost immediately. Like Noel has walked back albums and songs, and has always been fickle. So why does it surprise everyone now that he did it again? I actually can't remember, has he ever gone back on his hype for Heathen Chemistry? Just thinking, because Noel's music taste isn't the final word on everything, even his own stuff.
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Post by spaneli on Feb 10, 2017 21:05:18 GMT -5
He didn't flat out say it was shit, but he started to walk back that album super quick. It took a couple months before he started dropping the "album should 20-30% better because of said reasons" line. And we all know that he started hedging his bets on BHN almost immediately. Like Noel has walked back albums and songs, and has always been fickle. So why does it surprise everyone now that he did it again? I actually can't remember, has he ever gone back on his hype for Heathen Chemistry? Just thinking, because Noel's music taste isn't the final word on everything, even his own stuff. Idk, but then again, how often is he asked about HC?
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Post by theseventwenty on Feb 10, 2017 21:07:28 GMT -5
Gaz liked my post saying he should leak it, or release the demo versions of the tracks that he mentioned
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Post by Mean Mrs. Mustard on Feb 11, 2017 3:34:50 GMT -5
Gaz liked my post saying he should leak it, or release the demo versions of the tracks that he mentioned It already cost them time and money. It'd be a shame to waste this material by not having anyone hear it.
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Post by thomuk2006 on Feb 11, 2017 4:03:45 GMT -5
Summery: Noel is a dick.... nothing new tbh.
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Post by Jim on Feb 11, 2017 4:15:27 GMT -5
I mean, it's not like Noel has ever gone from calling something brilliant, to shit before in months right? *cough* BHN** cough**DOYS*** People are easily forgetful, when this actually perfectly fits into Noels previous pattern Did he state Dig Out Your Soul was shit?! Usually its the case he hypes up new albums merely for commercial reasons, but he genuinely seemed enthusiastic about the AA album. I think he just went cowardly personally. The only "slating" Noel gave Dig Out Your Soul was the comments about Record Machine and Come On It's Alright not having their vocals finished off... it was more a dig at Liam than the album. Otherwise Noel was pretty positive about it all. And he also never took months to slag Be Here Now off as the poster you quoted says. It was only around the time of The Masterplan being released that Noel started talking the album down for its over indulgence and then he got his teeth into it when Giants was released and has since carried it on from there to the present day. The AA album was the first time he had changed his attitude towards a record so quickly and we know it was because the HFB album caught fire and he was a shitebag to release the outthere version as he and his management didn't want risk his popularity and arena tours.
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Post by Jgrp on Feb 11, 2017 5:19:34 GMT -5
Noel's a dick
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Feb 11, 2017 5:56:19 GMT -5
He didn't flat out say it was shit, but he started to walk back that album super quick. It took a couple months before he started dropping the "album should 20-30% better because of said reasons" line. And we all know that he started hedging his bets on BHN almost immediately. Like Noel has walked back albums and songs, and has always been fickle. So why does it surprise everyone now that he did it again? I actually can't remember, has he ever gone back on his hype for Heathen Chemistry? Just thinking, because Noel's music taste isn't the final word on everything, even his own stuff. On that AMA thing he did on Reddit a couple of years back, someone asked him, quite coyly I thought, why he slags off Be Here Now and doesn't albums like Heathen Chemistry. He said:
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Post by theyknowwhatimean on Feb 11, 2017 6:14:26 GMT -5
Did he state Dig Out Your Soul was shit?! Usually its the case he hypes up new albums merely for commercial reasons, but he genuinely seemed enthusiastic about the AA album. I think he just went cowardly personally. The only "slating" Noel gave Dig Out Your Soul was the comments about Record Machine and Come On It's Alright not having their vocals finished off... it was more a dig at Liam than the album. Otherwise Noel was pretty positive about it all. And he also never took months to slag Be Here Now off as the poster you quoted says. It was only around the time of The Masterplan being released that Noel started talking the album down for its over indulgence and then he got his teeth into it when Giants was released and has since carried it on from there to the present day. The AA album was the first time he had changed his attitude towards a record so quickly and we know it was because the HFB album caught fire and he was a shitebag to release the outthere version as he and his management didn't want risk his popularity and arena tours. He moaned quite a bit that they'd messed up I Hope, I Think, I Know - but yeah, apart from that he was pretty much for it. Enjoy this track-by-track thing he did a couple of months before release: [can't find a link now, but I'm sure you've already seen it anyway] ...particularly the bit where he says, regarding All Around The World, "The longer the better, as far as I'm concerned. I know what people will say - but fuck 'em, basically." Oh the irony...
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Post by chamu on Feb 11, 2017 6:16:35 GMT -5
So we finally know Who is the one and only bastardnumber1: Noel
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Post by mossy on Feb 11, 2017 7:32:03 GMT -5
Well there's always the HFB twentieth anniversary addition in 2031.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 9:15:27 GMT -5
I remember a post on the Soapbox from the guy who leaked the DBTT demos in the aftermath of the press conference where Noel suddenly sprang the two albums on everyone. He said that Noel was dead set on doing the "out there" album, but when his management people started hearing music they absolutely shat it. The word "unlistenable" was being used, but obviously nobody was saying that to Noel. But at some point the Noel camp gently persuaded him to make HFB alongside what he still believed was his masterpiece and off he flew to Dave Sardy.
With the benefit of hindsight it all seems to line up with what Gaz is saying. Even at the press conference it's still pretty clear which album Noel had the enthusiasm for. It only became shit to him when he realised how big he still was outside Oasis and the threat the album held to his career.
I don't blame Noel for not putting it out. The only vaguely objective opinion I've seen indicates that it was indeed a pile of shit. What he should have done is paid AA appropriately for their work and what he certainly should not have done is started slagging them off to cover his own back. Just say "we did good work but in the end it didn't work out", or "I didn't want to release something I couldn't reproduce live" or some bullshit like that.
The odd detail in there might be wrong - I'm trying to remember an internet post from 2011.
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Post by Let It Bleed on Feb 11, 2017 9:45:42 GMT -5
those AA guys are really fucking weird.....i could imagine that album to be almost unlistenable to utterly brilliant......i dunno. but to continue utterly useless debate, i also doubt Noel felt like doing anything else after touring and promoting HFB's for like a a year or two period, or however long it was.... God bless. That's not the half of it. I heard the AA stuff at Black Barn whilst Noel was in there in between when the Rifles were recording their second album. It was all as out there as what we've heard. I just thought it was a fucking mess, couldn't appreciate it whatsoever. I had no idea there was 2 albums, whilst we were listening to that thinking that's never going to get any air play. There was a debate about STC/RM going on the album. I could comprehend how they could possibly go on the same record they were light years apart. But Noel was proud of it, most definitely keener promoting the AA stuff. And how different it was to anything he'd done before. It was amazing to see how much the AA pair would get away with with Noel. He gave them total creative control. But it was management who wanted the commercial HFB album. We later found out they were supposed to be alongside, to compliment the HFB album. But in the end management thought releasing it would damage the success it had already generated.
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Post by Doc Lobster on Feb 11, 2017 12:28:25 GMT -5
I keep having mixed feelings about this. Initially I got terribly excited when the album was announced ("Noel is finally doing something risky, he is recording out-there stuff!"), but as I started listening to the AA, all I discovered was bland, cliched psychedelia. Certainly nothing that could be classified as "out there". The way Gaz talks, you would think he's the next Sun Ra, but their stuff falls more in the Lord Sitar category for me. Mind you, I find FSOL amazing, so I wonder what happens when they put on their AA hat. They go into the studio with some of the best musicians in the world (Gary Lucas anyone?), and they are clearly good producers, but manage to come out with something unmemorable.
If the AA album was indeed HFB with the usual psychedelia-by-numbers touches plus two or three new tracks, as Gaz Cobain's post seems to indicate, it probably was a good idea to shelve it. The HFB album is not perfect by any means, and I would be interested in hearing the AA versions (especially If I Had a Gun), but I wouldn't like The Death of You and Me sounding like a Donovan parody. The material is too good for that.
(As an anecdote, I kind of lost respect for the AA guys when I listened to the first Monstrous Psychedelic Bubble compilation and noticed they had used the somewhat bland remix of Miles Davis' Rated X instead of the original album version, which is really out there.)
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Post by Lennon2217 on Feb 11, 2017 12:33:22 GMT -5
Noel has always been a pussy
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