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Post by artumlobov on Apr 6, 2022 9:16:59 GMT -5
He has been sued numerous times for plagiarism lol Pretty much every song has clear influences and a good deal have stolen ideas with the majority being the main hooks. Still a good songwriter though on his day. His songs might nick the odd bit of melody here and there, but it's not as if he takes an entire song and just changes it a wee bit here and there! Granted however, that accusation can probably be thrown at latter Oasis era Noel - too many songs are blatant pastiches of better songs. Noel at his peak would nick a melody here and there but the song bore no resemblance in style to the original song the riff or melody came from. It would be a large composite of influences injected with their unique spirit. Compare that to say Stop The Clocks later on which really is just a poor mans Looking Glass, a song which just directly takes from one band and one song rather than a mixture. Fair points, pal. He definitely does all of this to the extreme. I.e. completly rips a song off boringly and poorly (PYMWMI, High Horse Lady), nicks the odd bit of melody and does something different with it (Importance of being Idle), completely rips off a song and does something good with it (GLIO). I think a lot of the criticisms of Liam are a lot stronger if Noel's name isn't thrown in because he is on very shaky ground. |
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Post by matt on Apr 6, 2022 10:05:39 GMT -5
His songs might nick the odd bit of melody here and there, but it's not as if he takes an entire song and just changes it a wee bit here and there! Granted however, that accusation can probably be thrown at latter Oasis era Noel - too many songs are blatant pastiches of better songs. Noel at his peak would nick a melody here and there but the song bore no resemblance in style to the original song the riff or melody came from. It would be a large composite of influences injected with their unique spirit. Compare that to say Stop The Clocks later on which really is just a poor mans Looking Glass, a song which just directly takes from one band and one song rather than a mixture. Fair points, pal. He definitely does all of this to the extreme. I.e. completly rips a song off boringly and poorly (PYMWMI, High Horse Lady), nicks the odd bit of melody and does something different with it (Importance of being Idle), completely rips off a song and does something good with it (GLIO). I think a lot of the criticisms of Liam are a lot stronger if Noel's name isn't thrown in because he is on very shaky ground. High Horse Lady is probably the worst ripoff he's ever written. I'm gobsmacked it was ever recorded as it doesn't even try to hide it or do anything different, just taking the melody and making it a worse song. An absolute waste of a tune on such a half arsed album too. |
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Post by artumlobov on Apr 6, 2022 10:13:16 GMT -5
Yeah, terrible tune. Like most things it is Liam's fault it was written and included  Surely Noel must have had something more to offer. GLIO is an interesting one because it is almost embarrassing how much he stole from the Beta Band yet it still sounds unique and absolutely glorious. |
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Post by andymorris on Apr 6, 2022 11:17:49 GMT -5
GLIO is an interesting one because it is almost embarrassing how much he stole from the Beta Band yet it still sounds unique and absolutely glorious. Those are just basic strumming patterns, there's like a million tunes who use that one. Especially in the early 90s. It cant be considered plagiarism. It's just strumming and rhythm. So again we are falling back on Inspiration. Got Let It Out is a completely different melody, and production. High Horse is on another level, it's like he's trying to see if he's gonna get away with it... BUT, it's a blues song, therefore it sounds like a million other blues songs, and we all know that blues songs melody are difficult to really copyright because the emerged from song sung by slaves or people who worked in cotton fields in the US in the 1800 to early 20th century. So maybe Tommy Tucker should have been sued by those people because as a blues singer from the 60s, he probably also took that melody from someone else. In music, its called Traditional or folk / blues songwriting. Melodies dont matter that much in blues, the story does, and therefore is nicking a basic melody used in many other songs plagiarism ? We can go on and on, but this is a never ending story. |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 6, 2022 12:40:58 GMT -5
Wasn't aware of High Horse being stolen.
So what does that make of DOYS?
High Horse = Hi-Heel Sneakers
The Turning = Devil Woman
Anything else? DOYS really seeming like a truly uninspired album. Low effort. Makes the decision to end Oasis more reasonable really.
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Post by andymorris on Apr 6, 2022 12:50:00 GMT -5
Wasn't aware of High Horse being stolen. So what does that make of DOYS? High Horse = Hi-Heel Sneakers The Turning = Devil Woman Anything else? DOYS really seeming like a truly uninspired album. Low effort. Makes the decision to end Oasis more reasonable really. Rapture’s riff taken from a doors songs too but can’t remember which one. For the rest I don’t believe there is more |
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Post by AppleScruff on Apr 6, 2022 13:09:27 GMT -5
Wasn't aware of High Horse being stolen. So what does that make of DOYS? High Horse = Hi-Heel Sneakers The Turning = Devil Woman Anything else? DOYS really seeming like a truly uninspired album. Low effort. Makes the decision to end Oasis more reasonable really. Rapture’s riff taken from a doors songs too but can’t remember which one. For the rest I don’t believe there is more Well Falling Down is Noel’s 20th attempt to borrow from “Tomorrow Never Knows”. So that is 4 out of his 6 songs on the album! |
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Post by artumlobov on Apr 7, 2022 3:26:08 GMT -5
GLIO is an interesting one because it is almost embarrassing how much he stole from the Beta Band yet it still sounds unique and absolutely glorious. Those are just basic strumming patterns, there's like a million tunes who use that one. Especially in the early 90s. It cant be considered plagiarism. It's just strumming and rhythm. So again we are falling back on Inspiration. Got Let It Out is a completely different melody, and production. High Horse is on another level, it's like he's trying to see if he's gonna get away with it... BUT, it's a blues song, therefore it sounds like a million other blues songs, and we all know that blues songs melody are difficult to really copyright because the emerged from song sung by slaves or people who worked in cotton fields in the US in the 1800 to early 20th century. So maybe Tommy Tucker should have been sued by those people because as a blues singer from the 60s, he probably also took that melody from someone else. In music, its called Traditional or folk / blues songwriting. Melodies dont matter that much in blues, the story does, and therefore is nicking a basic melody used in many other songs plagiarism ? We can go on and on, but this is a never ending story. He stole the Beta Band's approach to making music. I think stealing a riff is more noble tbh. The Three EPs takes their sound in many directions. Noel cherry picked the bits he wanted including the scratching lol. You can hear parts of GLIO throughout the album. It could have been a career ended parody if it wasn't for Spike's production and more importantly Liam delivering an amazing vocal. Noel might not be able to be sued for HHL but you'll find he heard McCartney's Hi-Heel Sneakers cover and stole the melody rather than partaking in some traditional folk and blues songwriting lol. It is a shame you were not the judge in all of his court cases because he would be an even richer man now. Shall we do Fuckin' In The Bushes next? If you steal a drum beat AND a riff then really it's creating something new. Its called dance music songwriting *yawn* |
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Post by andymorris on Apr 7, 2022 3:44:57 GMT -5
He stole the Beta Band's approach to making music Well this one is a first, didn't hear that before ! Did he steal Beta band's approach to tuning a guitar too ? I suggest you look at cases like stairway to heaven legal case before you lol at anything. If the steals were that obvious then way the beta band didn't sue for millions. Those cases are more grey areas than you seem to think. At least i'm questioning the big picture of songwriting and what it means, and not just saying this is it, this is that. Like you do. In legal matters like that, there's many more aspect to take into accounts. |
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Post by oasisunited on Apr 7, 2022 7:27:05 GMT -5
This was on TV recently in the US and does a very good short attention span dive into what you need to prove in order to win a song writing dispute, at least in the US. The short answer is you need to prove: 1. The person bringing the suit owns the original song 2. The person stealing the song had access to the song (e.g. they heard it) 3. The songs are "substantially" similar That last one is typically what prevents these type of things from being winnable. You have to convince a jury of non-musical people that the songs are "substantially" similar. That is a high bar and most likely has prevented a lot of lawsuits over the years.
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Post by andymorris on Apr 7, 2022 7:41:10 GMT -5
This was on TV recently in the US and does a very good short attention span dive into what you need to prove in order to win a song writing dispute, at least in the US. The short answer is you need to prove: 1. The person bringing the suit owns the original song 2. The person stealing the song had access to the song (e.g. they heard it) 3. The songs are "substantially" similar That last one is typically what prevents these type of things from being winnable. You have to convince a jury of non-musical people that the songs are "substantially" similar. That is a high bar and most likely has prevented a lot of lawsuits over the years. Interesting. thanx. 3. >>> Well unless the jury is made up of some people on this board, for whom everything Noel has done is plagiarism. As i said, it's way more complicated than that. Sure Noel is using it to his advantage, but what musician doesn't use it and dont say a word about it. Probably none. Noel and any other musicians has influenced many many other bands who probably took from him again, on and on generation after generation. Can he sue ? This is never ending. There's blatant steals, and Noel has done some, but there are others which can only be considered influences. And for those, artists from whom he took didnt sue because they know the difference. |
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Post by andymorris on Apr 8, 2022 6:45:10 GMT -5
The Turning = Devil Woman Didn't know about this one, so i did my research to find this song. It's a very distant beat, to me it's not plagiarism >= inspiration. Listening back to DOYS, its still very solid. Yes, there are some borrow here and there, but apart from the two obvious ones (High horse and Rapture, tomorrow never knows beat), to me the rest couldn't win in legal case. The final songs are vastly different, melodically, on a production side too. It's at best inspiration, and it's done by many many bands. You take a beat or a song you like, and create another. It's fair, and every songwriter knows. |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 8, 2022 8:31:20 GMT -5
The Turning = Devil Woman Didn't know about this one, so i did my research to find this song. It's a very distant beat, to me it's not plagiarism >= inspiration. Listening back to DOYS, its still very solid. Yes, there are some borrow here and there, but apart from the two obvious ones (High horse and Rapture, tomorrow never knows beat), to me the rest couldn't win in legal case. The final songs are vastly different, melodically, on a production side too. It's at best inspiration, and it's done by many many bands. You take a beat or a song you like, and create another. It's fair, and every songwriter knows. I once put the vocals of Devil Woman over the Turning opening and it worked perfectly. Not the whole way through, but I wouldn't call it mere inspiration. Might as well be a case of Wonderwall of Broken Dreams. |
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Post by artumlobov on Apr 8, 2022 9:27:42 GMT -5
Didn't know about this one, so i did my research to find this song. It's a very distant beat, to me it's not plagiarism >= inspiration. Listening back to DOYS, its still very solid. Yes, there are some borrow here and there, but apart from the two obvious ones (High horse and Rapture, tomorrow never knows beat), to me the rest couldn't win in legal case. The final songs are vastly different, melodically, on a production side too. It's at best inspiration, and it's done by many many bands. You take a beat or a song you like, and create another. It's fair, and every songwriter knows. I once put the vocals of Devil Woman over the Turning opening and it worked perfectly. Not the whole way through, but I wouldn't call it mere inspiration. Might as well be a case of Wonderwall of Broken Dreams. Yep, plagiarism for me. Thankfully Cliff is a man of god and wouldn't want to drag Noel through the courts (again). |
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Post by andymorris on Apr 9, 2022 1:19:44 GMT -5
Didn't know about this one, so i did my research to find this song. It's a very distant beat, to me it's not plagiarism >= inspiration. Listening back to DOYS, its still very solid. Yes, there are some borrow here and there, but apart from the two obvious ones (High horse and Rapture, tomorrow never knows beat), to me the rest couldn't win in legal case. The final songs are vastly different, melodically, on a production side too. It's at best inspiration, and it's done by many many bands. You take a beat or a song you like, and create another. It's fair, and every songwriter knows. I once put the vocals of Devil Woman over the Turning opening and it worked perfectly. Not the whole way through, but I wouldn't call it mere inspiration. Might as well be a case of Wonderwall of Broken Dreams. You can sing whatever over the chords of dlbia.same for wonderwall and dykwim. Is that Travis song a wonderwall ripp off ? I’ve got a song that uses stand by me verse chords, am I stealing Noel ? The heart of modern plagiarism lies in the melody and complexity of the music. Not basic chords structure or simple beats. The riff of 7 nation army is complex enough so that if copied it will probably be considered plagiarism. Same for DGA and that real people song. But the turning ? Not that obvious. Close Siblings yes or father and son, plagiarism… nah Rock n roll music is not complex enough to have 100% new beats / rhythm and melody for every new song. Noel knows that and he uses it to create something new, just like every other musician. It’s a very very fine line though, I’ll give you that |
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Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 9, 2022 8:26:16 GMT -5
I once put the vocals of Devil Woman over the Turning opening and it worked perfectly. Not the whole way through, but I wouldn't call it mere inspiration. Might as well be a case of Wonderwall of Broken Dreams. You can sing whatever over the chords of dlbia.same for wonderwall and dykwim. Is that Travis song a wonderwall ripp off ? I’ve got a song that uses stand by me verse chords, am I stealing Noel ? The heart of modern plagiarism lies in the melody and complexity of the music. Not basic chords structure or simple beats. The riff of 7 nation army is complex enough so that if copied it will probably be considered plagiarism. Same for DGA and that real people song. But the turning ? Not that obvious. Close Siblings yes or father and son, plagiarism… nah Rock n roll music is not complex enough to have 100% new beats / rhythm and melody for every new song. Noel knows that and he uses it to create something new, just like every other musician. It’s a very very fine line though, I’ll give you that The melody of the intro verses are nearly identical as is the instrumental portion. That's why it works. I'm surprised anybody is pushing back on this one, it's very obvious to me. |
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Post by andymorris on Apr 11, 2022 8:42:55 GMT -5
You can sing whatever over the chords of dlbia.same for wonderwall and dykwim. Is that Travis song a wonderwall ripp off ? I’ve got a song that uses stand by me verse chords, am I stealing Noel ? The heart of modern plagiarism lies in the melody and complexity of the music. Not basic chords structure or simple beats. The riff of 7 nation army is complex enough so that if copied it will probably be considered plagiarism. Same for DGA and that real people song. But the turning ? Not that obvious. Close Siblings yes or father and son, plagiarism… nah Rock n roll music is not complex enough to have 100% new beats / rhythm and melody for every new song. Noel knows that and he uses it to create something new, just like every other musician. It’s a very very fine line though, I’ll give you that The melody of the intro verses are nearly identical as is the instrumental portion. That's why it works. I'm surprised anybody is pushing back on this one, it's very obvious to me. The backing track is a clear inspiration, almost plagiarism. Both melody on the verses are different though. not the same phrasing and notes. The rest of the song is totally different too, Noel is stealing from himself more than anything on this one really. |
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Post by quantum on Jul 19, 2022 8:58:26 GMT -5
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Post by syed on Jul 27, 2022 5:41:43 GMT -5
i bought this issue of Select when it came out. i discovered Pusherman from this article----Pusherman were one of THE most incredible bands ever. Managed by Marcus Russell from Ignition (same management as Oasis) and their album "Floored" was produced by Owen Morris. They were dark, heavy---MONSTROUS. I saw them live once in 1996 and they were absolutely BLISTERING. On a different level than any other band of that era. They were nothing like Oasis, who i saw live many times from 1994-1997. it's a shame that the british media used to try to classify bands into these little compartments, and yet at the same time i am happy they did because it allowed me to discover the madness of Pusherman. RIP to a few of them though----their lifestyle was an echo of their sound  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 6:15:06 GMT -5
i bought this issue of Select when it came out. i discovered Pusherman from this article----Pusherman were one of THE most incredible bands ever. Managed by Marcus Russell from Ignition (same management as Oasis) and their album "Floored" was produced by Owen Morris. They were dark, heavy---MONSTROUS. I saw them live once in 1996 and they were absolutely BLISTERING. On a different level than any other band of that era. They were nothing like Oasis, who i saw live many times from 1994-1997. it's a shame that the british media used to try to classify bands into these little compartments, and yet at the same time i am happy they did because it allowed me to discover the madness of Pusherman. RIP to a few of them though----their lifestyle was an echo of their sound knew the singer, harpman and original manager (later kind of road manager) and roadie quite well, lovely blokes all.
we played with them once and they cadged a bass string off us and then often bumped into them on nights out but, as you say, certain 'lifestyle choices' made weren't really conducive to their longevity in a musical or otherwise sense.
one of 'those' 'rock'n'roll' stories I never got my head round and still don't understand.
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Post by quantum on Sept 27, 2022 5:39:48 GMT -5
Sorry for the necro, but were there legal reasons as to why Marshmellow Lane was released in 2012 when people said some of the tracks (with copied bits) were written in the 90s (i.e. before BHN was released)? Did they have to wait until Oasis had split, or 15 years after the BHN release? Seems odd... I agree with all you've said, but still wonder why they sat on the album for over a decade! Legal red tape? Or was it released earlier but just shows as 2012 on Spotify? Bit more info on it in James' latest video. Around 6:30 they say the recorded the album in '92, but it wasn't released until about 6 years ago when they got the rights back... from who? |
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Post by bigmouth22 on Oct 1, 2022 7:57:27 GMT -5
Guy from The Real People shares his pot noodle with him and Noel stabs him in the back.What kinda man is he?
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5