|
|
Post by johnwesleyharding on Apr 13, 2014 12:52:29 GMT -5
You must be new to oasis to be bothered by this. Noel used to admit to his thievery and it was never concealed. Cigarettes and Alcohol steals from T. Rex, Step Out stole from Stevie Wonder, Hello from Gary Glitter (which in turn paid for the legal fees of that beast), Shakermaker from Coca Cola (the Seekers), Don't Look Back In Anger took the opening piano from Imagine. Lawsuits are a part of music now that it is such big business and have less to do with the musicians themselves as the business. Hell, John Fogerty got sued for sounding too much like himself when he moved labels. Rock 'n' Roll is an amalgamation of what came before and the best musicians have the best record collection to draw from. This has always been the way and while I consider it more homage than plagiarism, the tunes are what matter and oasis had the best ones. Put on any album you like, turn off your mind and float downstream. If you feel something visceral, don't research it, live in that moment because now that song belongs to you.
|
|
|
|
Post by syed on Apr 13, 2014 13:02:35 GMT -5
You must be new to oasis to be bothered by this. Noel used to admit to his thievery and it was never concealed. Cigarettes and Alcohol steals from T. Rex, Step Out stole from Stevie Wonder, Hello from Gary Glitter (which in turn paid for the legal fees of that beast), Shakermaker from Coca Cola (the Seekers), Don't Look Back In Anger took the opening piano from Imagine. Lawsuits are a part of music now that it is such big business and have less to do with the musicians themselves as the business. Hell, John Fogerty got sued for sounding too much like himself when he moved labels. Rock 'n' Roll is an amalgamation of what came before and the best musicians have the best record collection to draw from. This has always been the way and while I consider it more homage than plagiarism, the tunes are what matter and oasis had the best ones. Put on any album you like, turn off your mind and float downstream. If you feel something visceral, don't research it, live in that moment because now that song belongs to you. no...this is a totally different discussion. The Real People mentored Oasis in the early days.....and clearly Noel was heavily influenced by what he heard. I don't feel he nicked much, but he was hugely influenced.....way more than he's let on. |
|
|
|
Post by forestfan on Apr 14, 2014 18:39:19 GMT -5
The problem everyone has is simply Noel not being overt with the REALIES influence
I actually love the real people
and I love Oasis and its true you couldnt have had one without another
I think its even more true to say the Real People influence is more important to the Oasis sound than the stone roses were/are
|
|
|
|
Post by Bonehead's Barber on Apr 19, 2014 16:52:53 GMT -5
This is the first time I have heard Noel 'admit' what is suggested to have happened...
|
|
|
|
Post by davidjay on Apr 30, 2014 12:52:42 GMT -5
Heard this for the first time last night... good tune.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 30, 2014 15:31:25 GMT -5
Heard this for the first time last night... good tune. Some of their newer material. |
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 30, 2014 16:24:50 GMT -5
Angel Child vs The Way You Are
Notice the similarities in the opening.
|
|
|
|
Post by defmaybe00 on Apr 30, 2014 17:00:44 GMT -5
Maybe I'm deaf or something, but chords are different
The Realies were truly important for Oasis, nothing to say about that, but it's not like for every song written by Noel we HAVE to find some similarities with something written by the Griffiths
|
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 30, 2014 18:29:57 GMT -5
Maybe I'm deaf or something, but chords are different The Realies were truly important for Oasis, nothing to say about that, but it's not like for every song written by Noel we HAVE to find some similarities with something written by the Griffiths I didn't. I've been going through the Real People tracks on the internet. I came across that one and from the moment it started it seemed so familiar. I replayed the beginning a few times. I recognized it as having a similar beginning to one of Noel's obscure b-sides, but wasn't sure which one. I thought it was Idlers Dream at first, but that started with piano and then I remembered Angel Child and sure enough there it was. It isn't exactly the same, but it was close enough for me to pick up on without intending to. |
|
|
|
Post by defmaybe00 on Apr 30, 2014 18:49:04 GMT -5
Maybe I'm deaf or something, but chords are different The Realies were truly important for Oasis, nothing to say about that, but it's not like for every song written by Noel we HAVE to find some similarities with something written by the Griffiths I didn't. I've been going through the Real People tracks on the internet. I came across that one and from the moment it started it seemed so familiar. I replayed the beginning a few times. I recognized it as having a similar beginning to one of Noel's obscure b-sides, but wasn't sure which one. I thought it was Idlers Dream at first, but that started with piano and then I remembered Angel Child and sure enough there it was. It isn't exactly the same, but it was close enough for me to pick up on without intending to. Well, it's not that close for me  |
|
|
|
Post by The Invisible Sun on Apr 30, 2014 19:01:59 GMT -5
I didn't. I've been going through the Real People tracks on the internet. I came across that one and from the moment it started it seemed so familiar. I replayed the beginning a few times. I recognized it as having a similar beginning to one of Noel's obscure b-sides, but wasn't sure which one. I thought it was Idlers Dream at first, but that started with piano and then I remembered Angel Child and sure enough there it was. It isn't exactly the same, but it was close enough for me to pick up on without intending to. Well, it's not that close for me I must be crazy then. |
|
|
|
Post by asimarx on Apr 30, 2014 19:44:22 GMT -5
This is the first time I have heard Noel 'admit' what is suggested to have happened... Never seen this before, thanks for posting. There's some new insight (for me at least ;-)...the riff for Up In The Sky might have been Bonehead's brainchild! Also, the bit at around 7:00 when Noel realizes the Digsy's DINER spelling mistake that was printed on most North American copies of Definitely Maybe is quite hilarious. Lately, I came to realise that The Real People are one really underrated and publicly underappreciated band. So far, I enjoyed every tune of them I came across, also besides the ones that Noel OBVIOUSLY ripped off. At first I though, well, the singer sounds like Liam - until I found this interview on their early recording history with Oasis (http://www.officialrealpeople.com/news/index.html, thanks to David): "You’d never believe it now 'cos they’re so experienced, but Liam had never really sung with headphones on; It freaked him out! The reason that people say Liam sounds like our Chris is because what we originally did was Chris sang the vocal and then we gave Liam another track and got him to sing along to that.
Then we took Chris’s vocals off and got Liam to double track to himself, so he got hold of all of our kid’s phrasing." It all seems a bit like Milli Vanilli, really. Thanks to Chris Griffiths anyway for helping Liam to get away from this amateurish baggy-style Ian Brown-imitation he used to do on the earlier recordings. I really think they had a bigger impact on the evolution of the classic Oasis' sound than Noel would admit. Then again, here's another quote from that (admitttedly older) interview where The Real People advertise one their newer songs...no wonder they never really became a band as big as Oasis, writing songs with heavier and more differentiated meanings  "We’ve just got all these great new songs like “FaceBook” about internet nerds about people not even knowing you but they know you through your Facebook." EDIT: Sorry for not really paying attention to what links were already posted before! |
|
|
|
Post by defmaybe00 on May 1, 2014 3:23:32 GMT -5
But c'mon, the riff from Up In The Sky, the fact that Liam souds like that because of Chris Griffiths...those are known things aren't they?
|
|
|
|
Post by shoes222 on May 1, 2014 16:25:04 GMT -5
But c'mon, the riff from Up In The Sky, the fact that Liam souds like that because of Chris Griffiths...those are known things aren't they? It's not well known, tbh...even among hardcore Oasis fans. |
|
|
|
Post by rupertg on May 1, 2014 20:30:44 GMT -5
I do appreciate The Real People for helping out Oasis in the early days, but I also have to be a bit skeptical.
Yes, the chorus of Don't Go Away is a bit shameless rip of 'Feel The Pain' by the Realies. Maybe Noel was so high on drugs that he subconsciously nicked it, thinking that it's an unreleased song and no one would know.
Columbia is a Frankesnstein. The music was written by Bonehead, lyrics written by Liam, Chris Griffiths, and Noel. I guess it would have looked a bit daft if that song had 4 songwriting credits. Then again Noel isn't "the Chief" for no reason.
Rockin Chair. I have yet to hear 'Growlin Old'. I always thought Rockin' Chair was written 90-92 period? Wasn't it in one of Noel's notebooks? On the Roll With It single the song doesn't have co-credits. I wonder what made Oasis change their mind for the Masterplan album. Guilt? Legal action/threats?
I would love to hear these "guide vocals" they made for the Live Demonstration tape. They act like Oasis never been into a studio before. Oasis been into studios at least 3 seperate occasions in 91/92.
I also would love to hear that Oasis version of 'Heaven Knows'. You would think that The Real People would have leaked a clip of it to gloat the fact that Oasis covered them before they had a record deal.
|
|
|
|
Post by quantum on Apr 5, 2022 7:50:55 GMT -5
Sorry for the necro, but were there legal reasons as to why Marshmellow Lane was released in 2012 when people said some of the tracks (with copied bits) were written in the 90s (i.e. before BHN was released)?
Did they have to wait until Oasis had split, or 15 years after the BHN release? Seems odd...
|
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Apr 5, 2022 8:27:25 GMT -5
Rhythms and strumming patterns cant be copyrighted, only melodies or arrangements. And even melodies would have to be very close to be considered plagiarism legally.
As a whole, it's clear Noel took the Real People as a big influence and a way to elevate his songwriting techniques, but it's like when you learn a shot from your tennis teacher. Does he deserve to be the winner or Wimbledon instead of you ?
A few are problematic, like Dont Go Away, or Rocking chair (which is credited). As for the others, the Real People probably took their inspiration somewhere else we dont know about and made it their own too, do not forget that.
It's not plagiarism, it's human nature. We copy and learn from models. then surpass them.
|
|
|
|
Post by garylineker on Apr 5, 2022 13:32:44 GMT -5
There isn't one song by the Real People that sounds anything like as good as prime Oasis. Like it isn't even a discussion.
Even when people talk about what Noel so obviously lifted from other bands they start to struggle after a few songs and even the songs mentioned are usually mainly b-sides. Maybe that's why they stayed as b-sides. If you're using a 3 or 4 second tribute to Imagine as an obvious case of a rip off then you really are scraping the barrel.
He uses the same riff to the Coca Cola song and T-Rex song in the same way the Jam did from The Beatles and Sex Pistols. It happens, and he was perfectly open about it. I'd argue too open cos it made people actively look for shit that wasn't there with his supposed rip offs most the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 5, 2022 19:19:00 GMT -5
There isn't one song by the Real People that sounds anything like as good as prime Oasis. Like it isn't even a discussion. Even when people talk about what Noel so obviously lifted from other bands they start to struggle after a few songs and even the songs mentioned are usually mainly b-sides. Maybe that's why they stayed as b-sides. If you're using a 3 or 4 second tribute to Imagine as an obvious case of a rip off then you really are scraping the barrel. He uses the same riff to the Coca Cola song and T-Rex song in the same way the Jam did from The Beatles and Sex Pistols. It happens, and he was perfectly open about it. I'd argue too open cos it made people actively look for shit that wasn't there with his supposed rip offs most the time. I agree with this, I think it is spot on. My opinion is, if you're gonna nick the odd riff and melody here and there, then no problem, as long as you make it a better song. And Noel did that more often than most. By the way, I make no apologies in saying Cigs & Alcohol is a much much better song than Bang A Gong. Much much better. Stone cold fact. No getting away from it. |
|
|
|
Post by Teotihuacan on Apr 5, 2022 20:43:23 GMT -5
I'd argue too open cos it made people actively look for shit that wasn't there with his supposed rip offs most the time. You're absolutely right. I understand why people do it though, it's the human compulsion to make connections, when some people see random shit having some commonality and it all becomes a conspiracy to rob them of something, a perceived injustice. I play spot the influence too, it's fun but serves no great purpose really. This type of borrowing is absolutely rampant in the writing of songs in the music business: _____________________________________________ “In the early years, I’d often carry around someone else’s song in my head. And only when I’d put it down on tape — because I can’t write music — would I consciously change it to my own melody, because I knew that otherwise somebody would sue me.”
John Lennon, 1980. |
|
|
|
Post by quantum on Apr 6, 2022 2:50:18 GMT -5
Sorry for the necro, but were there legal reasons as to why Marshmellow Lane was released in 2012 when people said some of the tracks (with copied bits) were written in the 90s (i.e. before BHN was released)? Did they have to wait until Oasis had split, or 15 years after the BHN release? Seems odd... I agree with all you've said, but still wonder why they sat on the album for over a decade! Legal red tape? Or was it released earlier but just shows as 2012 on Spotify? |
|
|
|
Post by andymorris on Apr 6, 2022 3:12:05 GMT -5
By the way, I make no apologies in saying Cigs & Alcohol is a much much better song than Bang A Gong. Much much better. Stone cold fact. No getting away from it. Agreed, the riff is better, the melody is more complex, the overall song is better. I love TRex, but older doesn't necessarily mean better. Their records had more ups and downs than Oasis. Most people who criticize Noel and his songwriting probably never had a go at writing a song or dont understand how music works. These things happen, consciously or not. It's a very fine line between inspiration and plagiarism. Noel did took stuff but took them to another level, on a few songs. The main bulk of his work can't be accused of plagiarism though. Few songs here and there maybe, at most. |
|
|
|
Post by artumlobov on Apr 6, 2022 4:19:35 GMT -5
By the way, I make no apologies in saying Cigs & Alcohol is a much much better song than Bang A Gong. Much much better. Stone cold fact. No getting away from it. Agreed, the riff is better, the melody is more complex, the overall song is better. I love TRex, but older doesn't necessarily mean better. Their records had more ups and downs than Oasis. Most people who criticize Noel and his songwriting probably never had a go at writing a song or dont understand how music works. These things happen, consciously or not. It's a very fine line between inspiration and plagiarism. Noel did took stuff but took them to another level, on a few songs. The main bulk of his work can't be accused of plagiarism though. Few songs here and there maybe, at most. He has been sued numerous times for plagiarism lol Pretty much every song has clear influences and a good deal have stolen ideas with the majority being the main hooks. Still a good songwriter though on his day. |
|
|
|
Post by matt on Apr 6, 2022 6:22:41 GMT -5
Agreed, the riff is better, the melody is more complex, the overall song is better. I love TRex, but older doesn't necessarily mean better. Their records had more ups and downs than Oasis. Most people who criticize Noel and his songwriting probably never had a go at writing a song or dont understand how music works. These things happen, consciously or not. It's a very fine line between inspiration and plagiarism. Noel did took stuff but took them to another level, on a few songs. The main bulk of his work can't be accused of plagiarism though. Few songs here and there maybe, at most. He has been sued numerous times for plagiarism lol Pretty much every song has clear influences and a good deal have stolen ideas with the majority being the main hooks. Still a good songwriter though on his day. His songs might nick the odd bit of melody here and there, but it's not as if he takes an entire song and just changes it a wee bit here and there! Granted however, that accusation can probably be thrown at latter Oasis era Noel - too many songs are blatant pastiches of better songs. Noel at his peak would nick a melody here and there but the song bore no resemblance in style to the original song the riff or melody came from. It would be a large composite of influences injected with their unique spirit. Compare that to say Stop The Clocks later on which really is just a poor mans Looking Glass, a song which just directly takes from one band and one song rather than a mixture. |
|
|
|
Post by Teotihuacan on Apr 6, 2022 7:07:13 GMT -5
He has been sued numerous times for plagiarism lol As was Lennon, Harrison, Led Zeppelin, The Stones, Ed Sheeran, Kanye West, Elton John, need I go on....? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_subject_to_plagiarism_disputesThe much vaunted "original" Radiohead's biggest early triumph is a virtual re-write of Albert Hammond's (it was then covered by the Hollies) The Air that I Breathe. Yorke undoubtedly used the first song, however unconsciously, as a template for hs 'own' song Creep and, unsurprisingly, Hammond sued. |
|
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5