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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 8:46:13 GMT -5
Truly are.
The bias on the reverb is absurd. I've given them more than a fair "chance" over the last week.
So the consequent distortion and "sizzle" of the aforementioned make most of them all-but cringe-worthy most of the time which is a shame because you'd otherwise have magnificently sparse gems with EOTRun, IIHAGun and Broken Arrow.
The heart of the tunes: excellent of course.
How they SOUND, sonically? Mostly, awful.
18 year die hard fan here so spare me the flaming horseshit. Let 5 people listen to them at a decent volume on a serviceable rig and ask them for their opinion.
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 8:50:02 GMT -5
And NO, "demos" do not need to sound like this. But nice try if that's your game.
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 31, 2012 9:01:46 GMT -5
And NO, "demos" do not need to sound like this. But nice try if that's your game. Demos are demos. They're like a sketch FFS. THEY ARE DEMOS. What do you expect? Fully produced alt. versions of every song on the album? Gimme a break! |
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 9:05:20 GMT -5
That's what you came with after reading my post? Jesus.
Ask someone for help, hopefully they can explain to you what I'm talking about which includes nothing remotely resembling the desire to have "fully produced alternate versions of every song on the album".
Please don't shit up my thread with this kind of baseless nonsense.
thanks in advance.
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Post by underneaththesky on Oct 31, 2012 9:19:15 GMT -5
did you cry?
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 9:27:23 GMT -5
regarding his post?
Of course not, as I'm well versed with the cretinous knuckle-draggers that lurk all about this site, unfortunately. Fortunately though, there's a bit of wheat amongst the chaff here so I visit every now and again...some of which could (and will) find my position to be at least arguably reasonable.
regarding the demos?
No, it's just a shame that we lost an opportunity to have solid offerings of these songs which would have otherwise sounded fantastic without the needless interjection of "ok, we're in the studio, so we have to do this" nonsense.
Ever heard angel child?
Or do you too also have nothing of consequence to add?
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Post by Jim on Oct 31, 2012 9:36:32 GMT -5
I personally don't even think Everybody's On the Run, If I Had a Gun... and AKA... Broken Arrow from this disc are demos, that's how you've managed to separate them from the rest. I believe they are just acoustic outtakes due to the style and sound quality.
I've got a pretty decent CD set up, proper monster cabling and Teac speakers, the demos don't sound great but I never expected them too, they are just rough bare bone basic recordings and they are just good to have as part of the collection.
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Post by spaneli on Oct 31, 2012 9:40:39 GMT -5
the demos don't sound great but I never expected them too, they are just rough bare bone basic recordings and they are just good to have as part of the collection. Erm, this. The demos sound like exactly how Jim describes them. Don't know what you expecting, End. |
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 9:44:27 GMT -5
Jim: I selected them because they are, at root, the finest songs, in my opinion. they still SOUND awful though, do you not hear the "sizzle" and pronounced distortion on the effects? I listen on this and it's all but ghastly in most parts...  |
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 9:48:55 GMT -5
the demos don't sound great but I never expected them too, they are just rough bare bone basic recordings and they are just good to have as part of the collection. Erm, this. The demos sound like exactly how Jim describes them. Don't know what you expecting, End. Somethings amiss here that's making me begin to suspect I have TWO bad editions of this. People: I'm not talking about the "demo"/sparse nature of these songs. I'm speaking about they way they sound, sonically. This is a huge distinction. Again, listen to Angel Child as an easy reference point. It's a text-book demo that sounds great. These songs, mostly, are nowhere close. Again, not due to poor playing, singing, etc, but to over-production vocal and instrumentation nonsense that has no place, period. So no one hears the "sizzle" and over bearing distortion I'm speaking of? Perhaps I need to secure a third source. |
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 9:52:13 GMT -5
It pisses me off because again, at root, I DO think EOTR IIHAG BA and a few others sound wonderful in this form...it's the added horseshit.
I'm going to investigate further...
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Post by RocketMan on Oct 31, 2012 9:52:46 GMT -5
demos sounding like demos. surprise surprise
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Post by davidjay on Oct 31, 2012 9:55:56 GMT -5
I agree with Jim and spaneli's comments on the production above. I enjoyed listening to the demos CD, fully expecting that it would not match the fidelity and production values of the finished High Flying Birds album. I believe the reverb noted by start at the end is inherent to the mix, and possibly some of the distortion too. I think the mastering style may be what start at the end is taking issue with. The demos CD is mastered very loud, most likely at Noel's request. It's a controversial and widely debated topic, and the same criticism could be levelled at the majority of modern releases. Personally I'd prefer it if they were mastered at a lower level, allowing more for the dynamics to be preserved. Then when you turn up the volume on playback you get the best of both worlds. I realise this might seem a churlish comment though. I'd add that I'm very grateful to have the demos at all, really. It's a shame when dynamics are reduced to achieve more level like that though - as I believe someone mentioned in an earlier thread - compare the bootleg version of Record Machine to the new CD. The bootleg has more dynamics. Anyway, I understand the loudness war is over. Not in the sense that new stuff isn't brickwalled anymore (most of it is), but that it's not technically possible to get any louder...we've gone to 11 and there's no "one louder" left  It's actually got to the absurd point where Justin Beiber is mastered louder than Motorhead, AC/DC, and The Sex Pistols... you can 'see' this here: productionadvice.co.uk/loudness-war-infographic/ Hope this helps. |
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 9:56:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry Kite, that offers little sense. So ALL demos are created equal?
Of course not. There are solid offerings and there are poor versions (in differing regards, of course).
Just look at the Oasis catalog as ready-reference.
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 10:00:15 GMT -5
I agree with Jim and spaneli's comments on the production above. I enjoyed listening to the demos CD, fully expecting that it would not match the fidelity and production values of the finished High Flying Birds album. I believe the reverb noted by start at the end is inherent to the mix, and possibly some of the distortion too. I think the mastering style may be what start at the end is taking issue with. The demos CD is mastered very loud, most likely at Noel's request. It's a controversial and widely debated topic, and the same criticism could be levelled at the majority of modern releases. Personally I'd prefer it if they were mastered at a lower level, allowing more for the dynamics to be preserved. Then when you turn up the volume on playback you get the best of both worlds. I realise this might seem a churlish comment though. I'd add that I'm very grateful to have the demos at all, really. It's a shame when dynamics are reduced to achieve more level like that though - as I believe someone mentioned in an earlier thread - compare the bootleg version of Record Machine to the new CD. The bootleg has more dynamics. Anyway, I understand the loudness war is over. Not in the sense that new stuff isn't brickwalled anymore (most of it is), but that it's not technically possible to get any louder...we've gone to 11 and there's no "one louder" left It's actually got to the absurd point where Justin Beiber is mastered louder than Motorhead, AC/DC, and The Sex Pistols... you can 'see' this here: productionadvice.co.uk/loudness-war-infographic/ Hope this helps. thanks for the meaningful contribution. I would however add that this really isn't a "loudness thing" in this case. Having a bit of recording experience, I'm decently versed as to what can happen when the subtlest "effects" are over-done. This is not the first time I've encountered what I'm speaking about here and I've even heard it more often than I'd care to admit on "finished" material/recordings. Truth be told, I own every Oasis demo that I'm aware exists and NONE of them exhibit what I'm hearing on these. I don't know how much more definitive I can put it than that. Look, we all know these are "demos". That's fine, but to needlessly infringe upon their quality is what I take issue with. If I didn't like the way I believe these should have sounded, I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, but, sigh, I guess I do so I'm disappointed. |
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Post by davidjay on Oct 31, 2012 10:15:05 GMT -5
I'm sorry Kite, that offers little sense. So ALL demos are created equal? Of course not. There are solid offerings and there are poor versions (in differing regards, of course). Just look at the Oasis catalog as ready-reference. What I would argue is that some of the issues you noted with the demos (such as the heavy reverb on Noel's vocals on several tracks) are inherent to the mix. Also, the CD is mastered hot (typical for most modern releases) and for some listeners this reduces the perceived sound quality (which is too vague a term I guess, which can cover everything from artistic choices in production and mix to technical problems with the recording medium and mastering technique). Notwithstanding the shortcomings of the mixes, I think it would probably sound nicer if they had backed off a few dbs in mastering. I agree that there are many better sounding demos and session versions in the Oasis catalogue. Angel Child is a good example - recorded on digital 8-track I believe, and the mastering is more restrained than on the A-side. EDIT: Just noticed I was responding to the wrong message there! Still, hopefully the above is still of some use. Could you further clarify what you're hearing on the demos, start at the end? I.e. at specific times on the tracks affected. Then maybe we could work out what the issue is. |
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Post by start at the end on Oct 31, 2012 10:29:44 GMT -5
I'll have to get back to this, sorry. My 13 month old girl is sick for the first time and I have to pick her up from daycare.  Quickly re the reverb: it's not the "reverb" itself (although that's goofy and unneeded as well), but how it's so heavily biased, resulting in the over-modulation of the vocal-tips and its subsequent effect on the recording, in general. Just remember this out of disappointment, nothing else. Gotta go for now... |
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Post by davidjay on Oct 31, 2012 10:34:06 GMT -5
I'll have to get back to this, sorry. My 13 month old girl is sick for the first time and I have to pick her up from daycare. Just remember this out of disappointment, nothing else. I'm sorry to hear that, start at the end; I hope she is feeling better soon! |
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Post by Jim on Oct 31, 2012 10:36:20 GMT -5
Jim: I selected them because they are, at root, the finest songs, in my opinion. they still SOUND awful though, do you not hear the "sizzle" and pronounced distortion on the effects? Ah right, my apologies, I thought it was because those three songs along with I'd Pick You Every Time (which I forgot to include in my earlier post) stand out to me as completely different recordings to Freaky Teeth or Wrong Beach for example. Yeah I heard the distortion throughout some of the songs, I honestly thought it was just poor mastering but DavidJay has pointed this out much more eloquently than I ever could. Amazing sound set up you have by the way. |
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Post by underneaththesky on Oct 31, 2012 11:01:12 GMT -5
shit living room... music shouldnt be heard in that silly place.
and you ask me if I ever heard Angel Child? fucking hell....
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Post by His Royal Noelness on Oct 31, 2012 11:32:53 GMT -5
Oasis demos used to sound brilliant because Noel recorded them in a studio. The new ones have lesser sound quality because he records them on garage band. [/thread]
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Post by LlAM on Oct 31, 2012 13:21:25 GMT -5
I agree. The reverb on the vocals is horrible on a few of the songs.
The Death Of You And Me in particular is unbearable.
I'm quite surprised that these recordings passed Noels quality control, regardless of them being demos.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 16:20:33 GMT -5
I agree. The reverb on the vocals is horrible on a few of the songs. The Death Of You And Me in particular is unbearable. I'm quite surprised that these recordings passed Noels quality control, regardless of them being demos. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 16:28:15 GMT -5
I agree. The reverb on the vocals is horrible on a few of the songs. The Death Of You And Me in particular is unbearable. I'm quite surprised that these recordings passed Noels quality control, regardless of them being demos. Why are you surprised Noel let these out? Half the world has been listening to EOTR and IIHAG for nearly a decade via some crappy cell phone recording! I think he understands full well that fans eat this shit up regardless of overall quality. The demos help to drive a few more sells of what otherwise was a pretty run-of-the-mill live release. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- To the original post: I have only listened to the demos a hand full of times, but I can say that there are definitely high points (BA,EOTR) and low points across the tracks. The over addition of reverb on the vocal most likely stems from Noel perception that his voice is not top of line in quality on its own. Essentially he is trying to cover his own shortcomings. I am comfortable with it now, but when I first heard his album, I was shocked at how they managed to make him sound like a spry 25 year old again. The reverb is most likely him trying to achieve this same effect but without the actual know how behind the board. Overall, I am pleased with the demos, and their quality even if he might have tried a bit too hard on them. |
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Post by thepicturesgeneration on Oct 31, 2012 16:30:27 GMT -5
The reverb is horrible and you can hear significant pitch correction on most of them. the broken arrow demo that people are comparing to "talk tonight"? So much pitch warble.
That being said, i've only heard a few of the demos (my DVD has yet to arrive in the mail), and i'm not exactly impressed or underwhelmed, just what i'd expect really.
I'd pick you everytime sounds pretty nice though, definitely less gimmicky than the final version
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5