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Post by ToneBender on Apr 5, 2011 13:31:42 GMT -5
What is this football talk! I just said that Noel's had his voice auto-tuned with actual evidence and not even the slightest murmur! Not even gdforever!!! Something is amiss...  |
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Post by MasterplanMatt on Apr 5, 2011 14:24:12 GMT -5
You have no idea how easy it is to pitch correct a song and have it sound transparent. I'm sure if liam's actual untouched, raw, vocal were ever to be released you would all shut up. Liam's singing is about 1% effort, 99% personality. He rarely puts in the effort, even in the old days, but he was naturally more fit. You can tell singing (HIS PROFESSION) has become a struggle. Whether you care or not is up to you, but I just know he can do better. that's what bothers me. Someone is reeking off bullshit. |
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simmo
Oasis Roadie
Posts: 302
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Post by simmo on Apr 5, 2011 15:06:33 GMT -5
ToneBender - Apologies mate, one slightly disputable/debatable comment out of a 300 word analogy was leaped upon by a wanker. And we became somewhat sidetracked. But I'd genuinely like to see this evidence, interesting. Macca's last live recording was autotuned  |
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Post by agnhi on Apr 5, 2011 15:42:32 GMT -5
What is this football talk! I just said that Noel's had his voice auto-tuned with actual evidence and not even the slightest murmur! Not even gdforever!!! Something is amiss... It's hilarious:P But also tragic in the sense that it really fucking pisses me off in the eyes of fans Noel always gets away with similar things that Liam gets shit thrown on him. Like the RAH thing. Noel made a remark, hee hee so funny :') :') Liam does... "CANT HE SHUT HIS MOUTH ABOUT NOEL HAS HE NO RESPECT" |
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Post by gdforever on Apr 5, 2011 15:50:52 GMT -5
Did people get upset about Liam mentioning Noel @ the RAH?
That's absurd! Those were hilarious little comments! What would be to get upset about? I think you are making that up. Liam has caught a bit of flack for his interview comments though. We have yet to see what the board will do when Noel starts talking about Liam later in the year. I have a feeling there'll be some criticism of his comments as well if he starts talking like Liam has been.
Personally I don't care if they tweak vocals on record. Either Liam or Noel. Who cares? We know they can sing. As long as it's a good vocal I don't see why people get upset about it?
I am not a big fan of a lot of effects on vocals...but that is simply personal preference.
I don't get the hubbub about the vocals on ATU. The criticism that has started on Liam vocal the past couple days is absurd.
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Post by thepicturesgeneration on Apr 5, 2011 16:13:05 GMT -5
You have no idea how easy it is to pitch correct a song and have it sound transparent. I'm sure if liam's actual untouched, raw, vocal were ever to be released you would all shut up. Liam's singing is about 1% effort, 99% personality. He rarely puts in the effort, even in the old days, but he was naturally more fit. You can tell singing (HIS PROFESSION) has become a struggle. Whether you care or not is up to you, but I just know he can do better. that's what bothers me. Someone is reeking off bullshit. You have any more to say besides that? |
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Post by agnhi on Apr 5, 2011 17:35:16 GMT -5
Did people get upset about Liam mentioning Noel @ the RAH? That's absurd! Those were hilarious little comments! What would be to get upset about? I think you are making that up. Nah not making it up, there were some comments here. And there's been stuff on FB too, and when that gig+comments made headlines, many comments to those were also like "Liam stfu about Noel, move on, show respect. cant wait for Noel's solo album!!" I agree they were rather light-hearted comments he made, shame not everyone saw it like that. (And that "this is Beady Eye not Noel Gallagher concert" was understood all wrong all across the press. surprising.) Liam has caught a bit of flack for his interview comments though. Yeah. And obviously all the "shocking" stuff makes the headlines. And 95% of population only sees those. Sigh. Like the Elbow thing, they agree later they're a good band and all but of course no one will know that unless they read the whole interview. Or the comment about being bigger than Beatles, I mean like they say you gotta be so into it if you're in a band to do it right, to want to be bigger than The Beatles. But what majority of people will see? "Liam Gallagher still thinks they'll be bigger than The Beatles, what a twat". There's a good amount of people who seem upset that he's slagging Oasis off now and all that, complaining how tired they are with Liam denying how good Oasis was and losing their respect to him etc. I hope they'll see the bit in new NME where Liam makes double sure the reporter didn't understand him wrong, that he loves Oasis and the fans and they mean the world to him. |
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Post by gdforever on Apr 5, 2011 20:04:48 GMT -5
^ I don't look @ facebook page comments so I'll take you word for that. There hasn't been much, if any, of that here
The presses treatment of some of Liam's comments have been absurd. The "Liam still thinks he's bigger than the Beatles" is one that really makes me roll my eyes. They make that the headline but the quote doesn't even say that. The quote of Liam actually says he WANTS to be bigger than the Beatles which is a very different thing. But what really amazes me is the comments below...I swear people just read the headline and then don't bother to read the body before commenting. Seriously...the idea of someone having ambition to be massive isn't that crazy!
But tbf, at least in the press, Noel is going to be treated pretty much to same if he says similar things to what Liam has been putting out there. It's not like there isn't a history of people taking his off-the-cuff comments and making a big deal about them.
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Post by ToneBender on Apr 5, 2011 20:54:34 GMT -5
Seriously, though, Liam isn't auto-tuned.
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Post by gdforever on Apr 5, 2011 21:22:53 GMT -5
What is this football talk! I just said that Noel's had his voice auto-tuned with actual evidence and not even the slightest murmur! Not even gdforever!!! Something is amiss... I don't actually hear the autotune on WFTR. What should I be listening for? Some sort of tell-tale sign I should be listening for? We know that Liam has been autotuned in the past for records. It's not a big deal. I don't know why anyone would care even if they did use it. It's technology to make the proccess of recording easier. |
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Post by thepicturesgeneration on Apr 5, 2011 22:51:24 GMT -5
Seriously, though, Liam isn't auto-tuned. God. Suckers are a dime a dozen. |
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Post by deasy on Apr 6, 2011 1:05:49 GMT -5
#60 in the UK midweeks
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Post by ToneBender on Apr 6, 2011 6:47:32 GMT -5
Seriously, though, Liam isn't auto-tuned. God. Suckers are a dime a dozen. Just curious what kind of experience you have in the recording industry? Any schooling? Professional work experience? In a band that has done any recording? His vocals have none of the tell-tale signs of pitch correction nor does he particularly strike me as the personality type that would be even remotely okay with his voice being auto-tuned. Are his vocals likely comped from two or three takes? Sure. Auto-tuned? Highly, highly doubtful. |
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Post by ToneBender on Apr 6, 2011 6:49:23 GMT -5
What is this football talk! I just said that Noel's had his voice auto-tuned with actual evidence and not even the slightest murmur! Not even gdforever!!! Something is amiss... I don't actually hear the autotune on WFTR. What should I be listening for? Some sort of tell-tale sign I should be listening for? We know that Liam has been autotuned in the past for records. It's not a big deal. I don't know why anyone would care even if they did use it. It's technology to make the proccess of recording easier. If you listen at those points I cited, you can hear the quick jump in pitch in his voice. It may have been done purposefully for effect, although it's pretty hidden in the final mix so my guess is that whoever the Pro Tools engineer was on the session rushed through and just didn't do it very well. |
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Post by gdforever on Apr 6, 2011 6:58:20 GMT -5
God. Suckers are a dime a dozen. Just curious what kind of experience you have in the recording industry? Any schooling? Professional work experience? In a band that has done any recording? His vocals have none of the tell-tale signs of pitch correction nor does he particularly strike me as the personality type that would be even remotely okay with his voice being auto-tuned. Are his vocals likely comped from two or three takes? Sure. Auto-tuned? Highly, highly doubtful. But there was a article a while back where a journalist related a conversation with a producer who had said that he had used autotune on Liam. But he did say that it wasn't that Liam couldn't hit the notes he just didn't put the time in for them to cobble it together any other way. The point of the story wasn't a slight on Liam in which case I might question it's validity. Liam was used as an example that even artists that can sing have used autotune on records. So it not as if autotune has never been used on the hallowed voice of LG. That being said...I don't actually believe the vocals have really been tampered. |
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Post by ToneBender on Apr 6, 2011 7:27:14 GMT -5
Just curious what kind of experience you have in the recording industry? Any schooling? Professional work experience? In a band that has done any recording? His vocals have none of the tell-tale signs of pitch correction nor does he particularly strike me as the personality type that would be even remotely okay with his voice being auto-tuned. Are his vocals likely comped from two or three takes? Sure. Auto-tuned? Highly, highly doubtful. But there was a article a while back where a journalist related a conversation with a producer who had said that he had used autotune on Liam. But he did say that it wasn't that Liam couldn't hit the notes he just didn't put the time in for them to cobble it together any other way. The point of the story wasn't a slight on Liam in which case I might question it's validity. Liam was used as an example that even artists that can sing have used autotune on records. So it not as if autotune has never been used on the hallowed voice of LG. That being said...I don't actually believe the vocals have really been tampered. Well, there are only two or three producers that have worked with Liam since Auto-Tune came to be widely used in the late 90s. That would leave Dave, Spike and the Death In Vegas boys. My guess is that the claim comes from Spike being that he once got work as Britney Spears' "vocal coach". The quote goes, "An Oasis producer once told me that he has used it on Liam Gallagher’s vocals, without the rock star knowing, “not cos he can’t sing, just cos he’s too impatient to do enough takes to get it right.” Since Liam talks about Noel forcing him to do 30-40 of late when he customarily did 2 or 3 prior to that, Liam's telling of the vocal recording would be a direct contradiction of that statement. Is it possible it was used without him knowing on past recordings? Yup. Is it likely that it was done on any Beady Eye recordings, where the band has been present for all aspects of recording, mixing and mastering? Highly, highly doubtful. Particularly in the case of Across The Universe. |
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Post by gdforever on Apr 6, 2011 8:57:28 GMT -5
That is not exactly true. It depends on whether Liam stayed engaged and focused throughout the whole session.
With his history in Oasis it's not a stretch to say that when Liam not into something he doesn't stay engaged for professionalism's sake.
His quotes recently about the takes seem to imply that he thought that he shouldn't have had to have done many takes.
You can't imagine scenarios in which Liam gets bored and frustrated at about take 15 after being forced to sing lines again and again for small little things that Noel want done differently or singing lines over and over while Noel tweaks the lyrics so that Liam's phrasing sounds right? Prior to which any take, regardless of perfect it was wouldn't be a viable option. After all Oasis did the instruments first so Liam wouldn't have a lot of freedom in his vocals.
You don't think that a frustrated Liam would eventually start putting less than his 110% into the vocals? Have you never worked with someone that starts off really gung-ho but the more they are corrected the sloppier and less responsive to criticism they get? That is kind of how I picture Liam. It may be wrong...but I never think of him being overly professional or very detail oriented and nitpicky. I can imagine Noel continuing to ask for small changes so the vocals fit his vision long after Liam has figured that his vocals were good enough.
At some point can't you just imagine Noel being like, "whatever, good enough, we'll take the best bits of what he gave us and just tweak the vocals a bit if we need to"
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Post by thedon on Apr 6, 2011 12:18:10 GMT -5
Really like this. Think it's a great cover.
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Post by vespa on Apr 6, 2011 12:32:15 GMT -5
nearly every artist in the world at some point uses auto tune so nothing is slightly out of key!its standard procedure in musc an has been for a longtime.its not a vocal editor as such but just keeps things level,i cant hear much use of it on here and for the record this is a quality cover recorded in something like 8 hours!!!what you expect!also to the guy who said noel has used auto tune on that clip,bollox,noel can hold a note as good as anyone an his pitch is brilliant but he may have used autotune at some point
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Post by The Morning Son on Apr 6, 2011 14:50:02 GMT -5
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Post by Leezy on Apr 6, 2011 16:09:25 GMT -5
Liam really sings this one quite softly, very similar vocal delivery to 'World Outside My Room'.
On the autotune subject, if I were producing Liam I'd make the fucker do as many takes as possible then just comp the best parts from all of them into the one final take.
'Across The Universe' doesn't sound auto-tuned to me. The "Jai guru deva" bit is definitely not in tune, sounds a bit flat, but to me thats what I like about it, its kinda lazy sounding but it works in the context of the tune.
Wouldn't be surprised if a bit of autotune had been used before on albums though, the REALLY high bit Liam sings in the chorus to 'Lyla' (that he never even attempted to do live) springs to mind.
EDIT: Listenin back to Lyla, that really high note just sounds more like its been cut from a really good take rather than autotuned.
For me, as long as 99% of the tunes are untouched with autotune and comped from multiple takes then it doesn't bother me...
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Post by thepicturesgeneration on Apr 6, 2011 16:31:58 GMT -5
God. Suckers are a dime a dozen. Just curious what kind of experience you have in the recording industry? Any schooling? Professional work experience? In a band that has done any recording? His vocals have none of the tell-tale signs of pitch correction nor does he particularly strike me as the personality type that would be even remotely okay with his voice being auto-tuned. Are his vocals likely comped from two or three takes? Sure. Auto-tuned? Highly, highly doubtful. I went to school for it and have plenty of work experience. To everything you said i can back myself up. It doesnt take someone who has experience to know that there is probably auto tune. Tell-tale signs...please. you make me laugh. You think liam can get a vocal down in two or three takes? do you think his "personality type" has anything to do with it? There are much better, more skilled singers than liam that have used auto tune. The illusion you choose to believe that liam can still just go in there, bang out a bunch of golden vocal takes and the producer picks from the best one is SAD. |
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Post by gdforever on Apr 6, 2011 16:48:17 GMT -5
nearly every artist in the world at some point uses auto tune so nothing is slightly out of key!its standard procedure in musc an has been for a longtime.its not a vocal editor as such but just keeps things level,i cant hear much use of it on here and for the record this is a quality cover recorded in something like 8 hours!!!what you expect!also to the guy who said noel has used auto tune on that clip,bollox,noel can hold a note as good as anyone an his pitch is brilliant but he may have used autotune at some point Exactly. I don't know why everyone gets so insulted about the possibility of autotune. It's like they think if autotune is used it means someone is imply that they can't sing or something. It's just technology. |
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Post by vespa on Apr 6, 2011 16:53:08 GMT -5
exactly mate,auto tune is not what people seem to think it is on here,now if ya talking about victoria beckham!its a different story,people like her use every kind of effect going and use auto tune to its maximum capability,theres now way liam does this an never has ,what you hear is basically liam singing how he can
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Post by ToneBender on Apr 6, 2011 21:12:10 GMT -5
Just curious what kind of experience you have in the recording industry? Any schooling? Professional work experience? In a band that has done any recording? His vocals have none of the tell-tale signs of pitch correction nor does he particularly strike me as the personality type that would be even remotely okay with his voice being auto-tuned. Are his vocals likely comped from two or three takes? Sure. Auto-tuned? Highly, highly doubtful. I went to school for it and have plenty of work experience. To everything you said i can back myself up. It doesnt take someone who has experience to know that there is probably auto tune. Tell-tale signs...please. you make me laugh. You think liam can get a vocal down in two or three takes? do you think his "personality type" has anything to do with it? There are much better, more skilled singers than liam that have used auto tune. The illusion you choose to believe that liam can still just go in there, bang out a bunch of golden vocal takes and the producer picks from the best one is SAD. It's sad? Here's a quote from Death In Vegas, given in 2005 about recording "Scorpio Rising": "He obviously spent a lot of time learning it because he came down to our studio and banged it out in two hours. That take on the album is just one take from start to finish. I didn't have to do anything to the vocals. That man is a genius I think." (http://portable-infinite.blogspot.com/2005/11/death-in-vegas.html) I've heard plenty of recordings from Liam in optimal singing environments (ie, properly isolated with good monitoring) to convince me that he can lay down a small number of takes and they get comped into one heck of a vocal track. So, if it is so easy to have Auto-Tune be transparent, how do you know that it HAS been Auto-Tuned? Liam's historically had breathing and hoarseness problems, not pitch problems. Auto-tune wouldn't fix those problems but track comping would. Am I suggesting that Liam's vocals are not likely auto-tuned on this version of Across The Universe? Yup. Am I saying Liam lays down one magic take on all songs? No. Am I suggesting he lays down 3 to 6 complete takes and they get comped? Yes. The reason that I brought up Liam's personality is because he doesn't strike me as the type of person that would be okay with auto-tuning in any situation, especially on a Beady Eye track. Most of the musicians that I've worked with have cared enough about their craft not to settle for auto-tuning. Does Liam strike you as being committed to proving himself with Beady Eye at all? In the past three years you've made the following statements: "i've been saying this for years. LIAM AND NOEL'S VOICES GET AUTOTUNED LIVE AND IN STUDIO 90% of the time. if you don't believe it or you think they're too rock for it you are naive. I am not putting oasis down, it's the industry standard."
It's not the industry standard to use Auto-tune 90% of the time in any music, with the exception of T-Pain's discography. "listen to noel's vocals very carefully from the last tour. not radio performances, although even in the acoustic tour with gem he used it. you hear an unnatural "catch" on the vowels. And it was being used as far back as 1995. MTV unplugged, listen to morning glory and tell me there isn't an unnatural shift in some of the "WELLL"s. that was probably done in post editing, but nevertheless, it proves my point that they are not above using it."Antares Auto-Tune was first released in 1997 as software. It was released as hardware in 1998. Was this the first option for pitch correction? No. Was it the first reasonable option in digital and live audio? Yes. Try doing it before Antares. What you're likely hearing on MTV Unplugged is the compressor hitting hard because he's not pulling back physically while singing much louder. You have also said the following: "anyone else who is a musician or involved with live sound or recording notice that they use pitch correction live now? i think they're been using it since 2004. I first noticed on the Brit Awards bootleg on noel's vocals, its fairly obvious on a few others as well.
and before anyone tells me how rock and roll they are and that they don't use it, i can pretty much point out exact instances where you hear it working.
any big band uses it nowadays (which is why you don't hear 'sour' notes in arenas anymore really) not that it's a sin, just wondering if anyone else noticed it."Here's an interview with their FOH and monitor engineers from 2009: www.tpimagazine.com/production-profiles/316704/oasis_dig_out_your_soul_tour.htmlGood little read about how the IE monitors improved their sound and how they switched back to a Midas for FOH. Anyway, I don't really see what's left to debate. You seem convinced that the band is using auto-tune 90% of the time with the only reasonable evidence of any use is Noel on the acappella of Waiting For The Rapture and an anonymous statement by Spike or Sardy about Liam. Based on 18 years of recordings in every possible situation (studio, radio, front living room, unplugged, stadium shows, theater shows), I'm going to have to say it's more likely used about 1% of the time. If you'll excuse me I'm going to go listen to my SACD of WTSMG and listen to their 1995 pitch correction; speeding up the tape. |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
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