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Post by Cast on Oct 6, 2014 22:52:07 GMT -5
the Heat should be pretty good this season...probably won't win the title but maybe second round of the playoffs. God bless. It all depends on Wade. If he can be explosive the entire season. They'll be really good. If he looks like he did in the finals. They arent making it out of the first round. True their playoff success depends on Wade but their in season record will rely a lot on how productive Bosh is. It'll be a real test for both of them. Are the both still top 15-20 players? I doubt Wade makes it through all 82 games. Bosh needs to be consistent but Wade needs to be the leader of the team. Wade might not lead the team in points but he needs to assume the leadership role, this is his franchise. I'm also not sure if Bosh has the "fuck you" I'm going off and carrying my team attitude. I think Wade can still have those moments every few games. How often those flashes of "flash" will show up will dictate how good the heat are. Deng and McRoberts are great pick ups. Luol will shut down people and give you the intangibles. He will hopeful be a more productive version of his Duke counterpart Battier. McRoberts passing will give slashers like Deng, Wade, and Cole some good looks. I think Granger still has some left in the tank. Maybe a lesser version of Marion? |
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Oct 7, 2014 18:07:58 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 7, 2014 18:07:58 GMT -5
Honestly can't wait for Bulls basketball.
They'll have the most size they've had since their Eastern Conference run. Rose got what he needed at Team US, easy playing time and endurance. The fact that he got through that grind hopefully bodes well for his health. Mirotic already looks great. Thibs doesn't like playing rookies, but Mirotic might be the exception. The Bulls probably have their best bench since the Eastern Conference run too. Their lineup should look like this:
Starting: Pau Gasol, Joakim Noah, Rose, Jimmy Butler, and Mike Dunleavy
Bench: Taj Gibson, Mirotic, Hinrich, Doug McDermott, Tony Snell, Nazr Mohammed, Aaron Brooks
The only thing that really worries me, more so than Rose's health, is the lack of shot creators. Rose is still the only person who can create his own shot. The Bulls will be either the #1 or #2 seed. The question is when they get to the playoffs, who will be able to shoulder the load for Rose. I'm hoping that Gasol can be that guy. What Boozer was suppose to be. The presence down low to set-up the shot makers and give Rose more room to operate.
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Oct 8, 2014 3:44:09 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 3:44:09 GMT -5
It all depends on Wade. If he can be explosive the entire season. They'll be really good. If he looks like he did in the finals. They arent making it out of the first round. True their playoff success depends on Wade but their in season record will rely a lot on how productive Bosh is. It'll be a real test for both of them. Are the both still top 15-20 players? I doubt Wade makes it through all 82 games. Bosh needs to be consistent but Wade needs to be the leader of the team. Wade might not lead the team in points but he needs to assume the leadership role, this is his franchise. I'm also not sure if Bosh has the "fuck you" I'm going off and carrying my team attitude. I think Wade can still have those moments every few games. How often those flashes of "flash" will show up will dictate how good the heat are. Deng and McRoberts are great pick ups. Luol will shut down people and give you the intangibles. He will hopeful be a more productive version of his Duke counterpart Battier. McRoberts passing will give slashers like Deng, Wade, and Cole some good looks. I think Granger still has some left in the tank. Maybe a lesser version of Marion? I agree w/ everything you said. Only watched tonight's game through a few minutes of the second half because I was exhausted . It's only preseason but I really liked what I saw out of Deng. He was aggressive on both ends of the court. Bosh is never gonna be a banger but he's still going to be in the Middle because they are going to play small most nights. When his shot is on he'll be really good but he doesn't have that inside game for the nights it's off. My biggest concern is Granger and the guard play. When Wade is not on the court there really isn't much of an option. Honestly can't wait for Bulls basketball. They'll have the most size they've had since their Eastern Conference run. Rose got what he needed at Team US, easy playing time and endurance. The fact that he got through that grind hopefully bodes well for his health. Mirotic already looks great. Thibs doesn't like playing rookies, but Mirotic might be the exception. The Bulls probably have their best bench since the Eastern Conference run too. Their lineup should look like this: Starting: Pau Gasol, Joakim Noah, Rose, Jimmy Butler, and Mike Dunleavy Bench: Taj Gibson, Mirotic, Hinrich, Doug McDermott, Tony Snell, Nazr Mohammed, Aaron Brooks The only thing that really worries me, more so than Rose's health, is the lack of shot creators. Rose is still the only person who can create his own shot. The Bulls will be either the #1 or #2 seed. The question is when they get to the playoffs, who will be able to shoulder the load for Rose. I'm hoping that Gasol can be that guy. What Boozer was suppose to be. The presence down low to set-up the shot makers and give Rose more room to operate. The Cavs keep adding pieces but I still believe the east goes through the Bulls as long as Rose is healthy. IMO he's the most overrated player in the league but that Rose Noah Gasol combination is going to be tough for most teams to guard. |
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Oct 8, 2014 8:18:16 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 8:18:16 GMT -5
The Cavs keep adding pieces but I still believe the east goes through the Bulls as long as Rose is healthy. IMO he's the most overrated player in the league but that Rose Noah Gasol combination is going to be tough for most teams to guard. Overrated? In what sense? It's not like anyone was calling him as good as MJ or better than LeBron. All anyone said was that when he's healthy he's an MVP caliber player because he has the capabilities to carry his team. Which when he's healthy he does. He took some dog Bulls teams what shouldn't have even remotely competed to extremely high seeds. I think because he's been injured, even in Chicago, it's been difficult for people to remember just how good Rose was in his first three seasons. There wasn't a season when his game didn't take a large leap. His career track was amazing at the time. Banged up and maybe not as good as before, but overrated? |
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Oct 8, 2014 9:06:32 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 9:06:32 GMT -5
The Cavs keep adding pieces but I still believe the east goes through the Bulls as long as Rose is healthy. IMO he's the most overrated player in the league but that Rose Noah Gasol combination is going to be tough for most teams to guard. Overrated? In what sense? It's not like anyone was calling him as good as MJ or better than LeBron. All anyone said was that when he's healthy he's an MVP caliber player because he has the capabilities to carry his team. Which when he's healthy he does. He took some dog Bulls teams what shouldn't have even remotely competed to extremely high seeds. I think because he's been injured, even in Chicago, it's been difficult for people to remember just how good Rose was in his first three seasons. There wasn't a season when his game didn't take a large leap. His career track was amazing at the time. Banged up and maybe not as good as before, but overrated? Overrated as in he's not as good as people make him out to be. He's not a good shooter. In his undeserved MVP season he only shot .445 from the field and an abysmal .396 in the playoffs. He's an "elite" pg that averages less than 7 ass a game. He averages less than one steal a game and he's not very efficient. He's a good player. He just not great. Plus he has the personality of a floor mat. He's like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh |
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Oct 8, 2014 10:19:20 GMT -5
Post by Cast on Oct 8, 2014 10:19:20 GMT -5
I have some questions about Rose too. He can still be elite but I'm not sure if he is top tier, at least not anymore. At this point I'd take Paul, Westbrook, Parker, and Curry over him. I still believe that he can comeback and be a very great player but it is going to take some time. If he doesn't regain some of his ability guys like Kyrie, Wall, Lillard, etc will pass him perhaps even as soon as this season.
During FIBA he just looked out of sync. The explosiveness was there but his shot and more importantly his ability to finish at the basket was pretty lackluster. He's personality is chill though. Poor guy I can't imagine what he's been through physically and emotionally. Chicago is his city, I know he can't help but feel he has let them down.
Pau and Noah should dominate the East's relatively weak front courts. I watch some of Pau's play over the summer, he still has some left in the tank. Noah, I just admire the guy. Hated him coming out of college and I didn't think he'd ever do that much in his NBA career but he has proved a lot of people wrong. Stats aren't his thing but his impact on the game is huge. Rose may be the hometown kid but the Bulls get their personality from Noah. Dude just fights.
Looking forward to the Cavs/Bulls games for sure. They are only gonna play twice (i think) but the Cavs/Warriors games are gonna be outrageously entertaining. I like the Warriors squad a lot, not completely ready to call them a contender but they have one of the best starting 5's and a nice group of young guys. I hope they sort it out. I really like Curry and Iguodala games.
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Oct 8, 2014 11:25:48 GMT -5
Post by Let It🩸 on Oct 8, 2014 11:25:48 GMT -5
Derrick Rose seems like a genuinely nice guy; I'll take that over say a Kobe Bryant complete asshole any day.
God bless.
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Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 17:02:15 GMT -5
Overrated? In what sense? It's not like anyone was calling him as good as MJ or better than LeBron. All anyone said was that when he's healthy he's an MVP caliber player because he has the capabilities to carry his team. Which when he's healthy he does. He took some dog Bulls teams what shouldn't have even remotely competed to extremely high seeds. I think because he's been injured, even in Chicago, it's been difficult for people to remember just how good Rose was in his first three seasons. There wasn't a season when his game didn't take a large leap. His career track was amazing at the time. Banged up and maybe not as good as before, but overrated? Overrated as in he's not as good as people make him out to be. He's not a good shooter. In his undeserved MVP season he only shot .445 from the field and an abysmal .396 in the playoffs. He's an "elite" pg that averages less than 7 ass a game. He averages less than one steal a game and he's not very efficient. He's a good player. He just not great. Plus he has the personality of a floor mat. He's like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh Alright, here's the issue I have with your argument. You're pulling numbers without actually examining why they exist. Yes, Rose is an average shooter, but there's a reason his assist totals are so low. The year he won the MVP this is who was passing to: Ronnie Brewer, cj Watson, Keith bogans, omer asik, joakim Noah, and john Lucas. Think about that. None of those guys are elite shooters or playmakers. Even Noah. No point guard will average a high assist total with them. None of those guys are actual threats to any team. None of those guys can create their own shot. A point guard can only give his teammate the best possible shot. It's still up to the teammate to make the shot. Secondly, because those guys are offensively inept it causes your point guard, the guy who is supposed to be passing, to take shots first instead. This causes the point guard to take poor shots at the end of the shot clock or take shots against poor matchups because the next man can't make the shot. So yes, Rose has an average shot, but that was made worst by a poor supporting cast. Now, that's only in the regular season. Think about in the post season with better teams that know they have to take Rose away. The shots taken get worse and the percentage goes down because there's no one else to really share the load. Rose is one of the shortest people on the floor but will draw a matchup with lebron defense. Just like in the eastern conference championship game. He's the guy teams key in on and wack. He's the guy that takes the dirty shots from opposing teams. When you think about his supporting cast in his MVP season, his numbers are spectacular. He carried a team that shouldn't have been anywhere near a #1 seed to the eastern conference finals. I don't think he's an elite players now, but to say he was never an elite player is ignoring a lot of facts. |
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Oct 8, 2014 18:11:40 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 18:11:40 GMT -5
I have some questions about Rose too. He can still be elite but I'm not sure if he is top tier, at least not anymore. At this point I'd take Paul, Westbrook, Parker, and Curry over him. I still believe that he can comeback and be a very great player but it is going to take some time. If he doesn't regain some of his ability guys like Kyrie, Wall, Lillard, etc will pass him perhaps even as soon as this season. During FIBA he just looked out of sync. The explosiveness was there but his shot and more importantly his ability to finish at the basket was pretty lackluster. He's personality is chill though. Poor guy I can't imagine what he's been through physically and emotionally. Chicago is his city, I know he can't help but feel he has let them down. Pau and Noah should dominate the East's relatively weak front courts. I watch some of Pau's play over the summer, he still has some left in the tank. Noah, I just admire the guy. Hated him coming out of college and I didn't think he'd ever do that much in his NBA career but he has proved a lot of people wrong. Stats aren't his thing but his impact on the game is huge. Rose may be the hometown kid but the Bulls get their personality from Noah. Dude just fights. Looking forward to the Cavs/Bulls games for sure. They are only gonna play twice (i think) but the Cavs/Warriors games are gonna be outrageously entertaining. I like the Warriors squad a lot, not completely ready to call them a contender but they have one of the best starting 5's and a nice group of young guys. I hope they sort it out. I really like Curry and Iguodala games. Only two? I would think more....the Bulls and Cavs are in the same division. Should be about four times. Right now Rose looks like a guy who hasn't really played in two years. He probably won't be the same player until next year actually. The full recovery time from his initial ACL injury was supposed to be two years. But right now, he just needs to find his rhythm again. That will probably take third of the season. His numbers will the worst of his career this season for sure. The Bulls have the to hope that Rose at his worst is still good enough to lead them. He'll be sometime before Rose is the player that put an offensively inept Bulls team on his back. I know, it's definitely been hard on Rose. He's a good kid. Extremely humble and I personally have no problem his personality. It's rare to have someone who is hard working, humble, and talented. I know in Chicago there was a bit of a backlash against Rose because it's been two years since he's really played. The hardest part for him was having to watch his teammates play when he couldn't. Lastly, Sternumman stats are incorrect. Yes, Rose's career assist per game isn't above 7 assists per game (it's 6.8 per game career wise), but during his MVP season he averaged 7.7 apg, 4.1 rpg 1 steal per game, averaged 25 ppg, an .858 free throw percentage, and 37.5 minutes per game. Those are impressive stats from anyone. His only poor stat that season was his field goal percentage. And though he average a .445 percentage in his MVP season his FG % was still 14th among PG's in the league and was third among PG's that attempted more than 1k shots. The only two ranking ahead of him: Steph Curry and Tony Parker. And among PG's with 900+ shots he ranked 5th in field goal percentage. Funnily enough, during that MVP season the stats were on his side. Which is why he was an MVP player. Lastly, Pau already looks like a huge upgrade over Boozer, which isn't saying much  But you're right, Noah and him should have great season. I still remember draft night when the Bulls took him. Jay Bilas was one of the main opponents to the Bulls selecting Noah. Just about every analyst thought that night that the Bulls over drafted Noah at #9. Re-do that draft now and he might go #2 behind Durant. He proved a ton of people wrong. And a lot people wish they could do that draft over again. |
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Oct 8, 2014 18:33:39 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 18:33:39 GMT -5
Overrated as in he's not as good as people make him out to be. He's not a good shooter. In his undeserved MVP season he only shot .445 from the field and an abysmal .396 in the playoffs. He's an "elite" pg that averages less than 7 ass a game. He averages less than one steal a game and he's not very efficient. He's a good player. He just not great. Plus he has the personality of a floor mat. He's like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh Alright, here's the issue I have with your argument. You're pulling numbers without actually examining why they exist. Yes, Rose is an average shooter, but there's a reason his assist totals are so low. The year he won the MVP this is who was passing to: Ronnie Brewer, cj Watson, Keith bogans, omer asik, joakim Noah, and john Lucas. Think about that. None of those guys are elite shooters or playmakers. Even Noah. No point guard will average a high assist total with them. None of those guys are actual threats to any team. None of those guys can create their own shot. A point guard can only give his teammate the best possible shot. It's still up to the teammate to make the shot. Secondly, because those guys are offensively inept it causes your point guard, the guy who is supposed to be passing, to take shots first instead. This causes the point guard to take poor shots at the end of the shot clock or take shots against poor matchups because the next man can't make the shot. So yes, Rose has an average shot, but that was made worst by a poor supporting cast. Now, that's only in the regular season. Think about in the post season with better teams that know they have to take Rose away. The shots taken get worse and the percentage goes down because there's no one else to really share the load. Rose is one of the shortest people on the floor but will draw a matchup with lebron defense. Just like in the eastern conference championship game. He's the guy teams key in on and wack. He's the guy that takes the dirty shots from opposing teams. When you think about his supporting cast in his MVP season, his numbers are spectacular. He carried a team that shouldn't have been anywhere near a #1 seed to the eastern conference finals. I don't think he's an elite players now, but to say he was never an elite player is ignoring a lot of facts. John Lucas played 2 games that year and you left of Boozer and Deng who both averaged 17.5 pts a game that yr. MVP is a bogus award anyway. It should go to the best player in the league not the perceived most important player. Shaq should have beaten out Nash. Wade should have won in 09 when he finished 3rd even though he had more pts, asst, blocks, steals and fg% than LBJ and Kobe. LBJ should have won it 11. Even Wades #'s as the 2nd option were better t han Rose that yr w/ the exception of asst. www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011&p3=jamesle01&y3=2011Rose is a good player. He's better than most of thr pg's in the league. I just would never have wanted to build a team around him. I'm glad the Heat lost the lottery that yr because if they took him, they never would have been able to have the cap space they did 4 yrs ago. He's injury prone and inefficient. He's Allen Iverson Lite. |
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Oct 8, 2014 18:58:02 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 18:58:02 GMT -5
Lastly, Sternumman stats are incorrect. Yes, Rose's career assist per game isn't above 7 assists per game (it's 6.8 per game career wise), but during his MVP season he averaged 7.7 apg, 4.1 rpg 1 steal per game, averaged 25 ppg, an .858 free throw percentage, and 37.5 minutes per game. Those are impressive stats from anyone. His only poor stat that season was his field goal percentage. And though he average a .445 percentage in his MVP season his FG % was still 14th among PG's in the league and was third among PG's that attempted more than 1k shots. The only two ranking ahead of him: Steph Curry and Tony Parker. And among PG's with 900+ shots he ranked 5th in field goal percentage. Funnily enough, during that MVP season the stats were on his side. Which is why he was an MVP player. What stats were incorrect? I said for his career he averages less than 7 asst and 1 st per game. 14th among PG's? That is horrible. If you go w/ all qualified players he finished 82. 81 players shot better from the field then him. If you say thats not fair because centers and forwards play closer to the rim. 24 guards shot better. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:00:51 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 19:00:51 GMT -5
Alright, here's the issue I have with your argument. You're pulling numbers without actually examining why they exist. Yes, Rose is an average shooter, but there's a reason his assist totals are so low. The year he won the MVP this is who was passing to: Ronnie Brewer, cj Watson, Keith bogans, omer asik, joakim Noah, and john Lucas. Think about that. None of those guys are elite shooters or playmakers. Even Noah. No point guard will average a high assist total with them. None of those guys are actual threats to any team. None of those guys can create their own shot. A point guard can only give his teammate the best possible shot. It's still up to the teammate to make the shot. Secondly, because those guys are offensively inept it causes your point guard, the guy who is supposed to be passing, to take shots first instead. This causes the point guard to take poor shots at the end of the shot clock or take shots against poor matchups because the next man can't make the shot. So yes, Rose has an average shot, but that was made worst by a poor supporting cast. Now, that's only in the regular season. Think about in the post season with better teams that know they have to take Rose away. The shots taken get worse and the percentage goes down because there's no one else to really share the load. Rose is one of the shortest people on the floor but will draw a matchup with lebron defense. Just like in the eastern conference championship game. He's the guy teams key in on and wack. He's the guy that takes the dirty shots from opposing teams. When you think about his supporting cast in his MVP season, his numbers are spectacular. He carried a team that shouldn't have been anywhere near a #1 seed to the eastern conference finals. I don't think he's an elite players now, but to say he was never an elite player is ignoring a lot of facts. MVP is a bogus award anyway. It should go to the best player in the league not the perceived most important player. Shaq should have beaten out Nash. Wade should have won in 09 when he finished 3rd even though he had more pts, asst, blocks, steals and fg% than LBJ and Kobe. LBJ should have won it 11. Even Wades #'s as the 2nd option were better t han Rose that yr w/ the exception of asst. www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011&p3=jamesle01&y3=2011Rose is a good player. He's better than most of thr pg's in the league. I just would never have wanted to build a team around him. I'm glad the Heat lost the lottery that yr because if they took him, they never would have been able to have the cap space they did 4 yrs ago. He's injury prone and inefficient. He's Allen Iverson Lite. Boozer wasn't a fourth quarter player. The guy literally was the definition of garbage points. Padded his stats in blow out games. So you're essentially down to one guy who can make a clutch shot and should be respected. Everyone else? Might as well be left alone to double or triple Rose. Funnily enough, in Rose's MVP season his FG% was higher than 11 of Iverson's 17 seasons. Excluding games where he played less than 25 games, Iverson's FG% was higher than Rose's MVP season in only four of his seasons. In terms of 3 pt %, Rose's MVP .332 was higher than Iverson's in but four of his seasons. Iverson only had one season where he average as many assists as Rose average in 7.9 apg MVP season. Mind you, Rose is only 3 inches taller than Iverson, yet his 4.1 Rpg was bested by Iverson in only four of his seasons. Rose's .858 FT % season is higher than all of Iverson's seasons but one. Iverson had only three seasons where he played at least 80 games. Only two stats that Iverson overwhelmingly trumps Rose, shots per game and points per game (and obviously the two are connected). At one point Iverson attempted 1,900 shots. Rose's high: 1,500. Iverson blew past that 8 times in his career. So Rose I guess could be considered Iverson-light in terms of inefficiency. But Rose overall has been a more efficient player in his career. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:03:57 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 19:03:57 GMT -5
I know, it's definitely been hard on Rose. He's a good kid. Extremely humble and I personally have no problem his personality. It's rare to have someone who is hard working, humble, and talented. I know in Chicago there was a bit of a backlash against Rose because it's been two years since he's really played. The hardest part for him was having to watch his teammates play when he couldn't. I dont think he's humble. He didnt want to recruit any players to Chicago in several off seasons. I can be reading it wrong but that seems selfish and he doesnt want to play w/ a superstar to take away from him. Plus he's the fun police. "I dont think the all star game is the appropriate place to dance" or something along those lines. He has a stick up his ass. Look at him during the FIBA celebration. I'd rather go to a Nickle Back concert than be stuck in a room w/ him for more than 10 minutes. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:05:27 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 19:05:27 GMT -5
Lastly, Sternumman stats are incorrect. Yes, Rose's career assist per game isn't above 7 assists per game (it's 6.8 per game career wise), but during his MVP season he averaged 7.7 apg, 4.1 rpg 1 steal per game, averaged 25 ppg, an .858 free throw percentage, and 37.5 minutes per game. Those are impressive stats from anyone. His only poor stat that season was his field goal percentage. And though he average a .445 percentage in his MVP season his FG % was still 14th among PG's in the league and was third among PG's that attempted more than 1k shots. The only two ranking ahead of him: Steph Curry and Tony Parker. And among PG's with 900+ shots he ranked 5th in field goal percentage. Funnily enough, during that MVP season the stats were on his side. Which is why he was an MVP player. What stats were incorrect? I said for his career he averages less than 7 asst and 1 st per game. 14th among PG's? That is horrible. If you go w/ all qualified players he finished 82. 81 players shot better from the field then him. If you say thats not fair because centers and forwards play closer to the rim. 24 guards shot better. You go by rankings of position. Not overall. A PG will never be Top 25 in shooting % over a center that is two feet from the basket Or even a PF that works more along the basket. It's easier for them to keep their shooting % up. That's laughable to even compare the two. So yes, 81 players shot better than Rose, but I'm sure you could find 50 players that shot better than Tony Parker and most will be either Centers or PF's. And yes, 14th among PG's, but that's why I qualified it in shot attempts. Someone could be ranked fifth but have only taken half the shots as the guy behind him. Much easier to keep one's average up if they're only attempting like 10 shots per game. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:12:28 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 19:12:28 GMT -5
I know, it's definitely been hard on Rose. He's a good kid. Extremely humble and I personally have no problem his personality. It's rare to have someone who is hard working, humble, and talented. I know in Chicago there was a bit of a backlash against Rose because it's been two years since he's really played. The hardest part for him was having to watch his teammates play when he couldn't. I dont think he's humble. He didnt want to recruit any players to Chicago in several off seasons. I can be reading it wrong but that seems selfish and he doesnt want to play w/ a superstar to take away from him. Plus he's the fun police. "I dont think the all star game is the appropriate place to dance" or something along those lines. He has a stick up his ass. Look at him during the FIBA celebration. I'd rather go to a Nickle Back concert than be stuck in a room w/ him for more than 10 minutes. He has always maintained that the reason he doesn't recruit other players is because it's actually disrespectful to the teammates he has. His teammates are his friends. He trains with them and actually counts them among people he respects. So when he's recruiting a superstar he's asking for half of them to be traded away because they're no good. He's not that kind of a guy. He'll never be the guy who ask for the team to be gutted because the guys he has are no good. He's has said multiple times that those guys are his brothers and he believes in them. He can't go and be turncoat and then go behind their back. I respect Rose for that. For saying that if a superstar player wants to come then obviously he'll be happy, but he won't beg someone to be someplace they don't want to be. That's a very old school way of looking at recruiting. Something tells me that you just really don't like Rose. What does his personality matter? What's the point of nit picking at the person he is? He's a good guy that doesn't look to take the limelight. Rare among superstars. He's fine the way he is. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:13:13 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 19:13:13 GMT -5
John Lucas played 2 games that year and you left of Boozer and Deng who both averaged 17.5 pts a game that yr. MVP is a bogus award anyway. It should go to the best player in the league not the perceived most important player. Shaq should have beaten out Nash. Wade should have won in 09 when he finished 3rd even though he had more pts, asst, blocks, steals and fg% than LBJ and Kobe. LBJ should have won it 11. Even Wades #'s as the 2nd option were better t han Rose that yr w/ the exception of asst. www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=wadedw01&y1=2011&p2=rosede01&y2=2011&p3=jamesle01&y3=2011Rose is a good player. He's better than most of thr pg's in the league. I just would never have wanted to build a team around him. I'm glad the Heat lost the lottery that yr because if they took him, they never would have been able to have the cap space they did 4 yrs ago. He's injury prone and inefficient. He's Allen Iverson Lite. Boozer wasn't a fourth quarter player. The guy literally was the definition of garbage points. Padded his stats in blow out games. So you're essentially down to one guy who can make a clutch shot and should be respected. Everyone else? Might as well be left alone to double or triple Rose. Funnily enough, in Rose's MVP season his FG% was higher than 11 of Iverson's 17 seasons. Excluding games where he played less than 25 games, Iverson's FG% was higher than Rose's MVP season in only four of his seasons. In terms of 3 pt %, Rose's MVP .332 was higher than Iverson's in but four of his seasons. Iverson only had one season where he average as many assists as Rose average in 7.9 apg MVP season. Mind you, Rose is only 3 inches taller than Iverson, yet his 4.1 Rpg was bested by Iverson in only four of his seasons. Rose's .858 FT % season is higher than all of Iverson's seasons but one. Iverson had only three seasons where he played at least 80 games. Only two stats that Iverson overwhelmingly trumps Rose, shots per game and points per game (and obviously the two are connected). At one point Iverson attempted 1,900 shots. Rose's high: 1,500. Iverson blew past that 8 times in his career. So Rose I guess could be considered Iverson-light in terms of inefficiency. But Rose overall has been a more efficient player in his career. Iverson only played 13 seasons not 17. So its 4/13 but that doesnt matter. My point was they are both inefficient and 3 inches is a big difference in the NBA. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:15:13 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 19:15:13 GMT -5
Boozer wasn't a fourth quarter player. The guy literally was the definition of garbage points. Padded his stats in blow out games. So you're essentially down to one guy who can make a clutch shot and should be respected. Everyone else? Might as well be left alone to double or triple Rose. Funnily enough, in Rose's MVP season his FG% was higher than 11 of Iverson's 17 seasons. Excluding games where he played less than 25 games, Iverson's FG% was higher than Rose's MVP season in only four of his seasons. In terms of 3 pt %, Rose's MVP .332 was higher than Iverson's in but four of his seasons. Iverson only had one season where he average as many assists as Rose average in 7.9 apg MVP season. Mind you, Rose is only 3 inches taller than Iverson, yet his 4.1 Rpg was bested by Iverson in only four of his seasons. Rose's .858 FT % season is higher than all of Iverson's seasons but one. Iverson had only three seasons where he played at least 80 games. Only two stats that Iverson overwhelmingly trumps Rose, shots per game and points per game (and obviously the two are connected). At one point Iverson attempted 1,900 shots. Rose's high: 1,500. Iverson blew past that 8 times in his career. So Rose I guess could be considered Iverson-light in terms of inefficiency. But Rose overall has been a more efficient player in his career. Iverson only played 13 seasons not 17. So its 4/13 but that doesnt matter. My point was they are both inefficient and 3 inches is a big difference in the NBA.Not when you're game is drive in the middle of the court against 7 footers. Three inches mean nothing. Lastly, any great defensive player at any height will say rebounding is not about height, it's about effort. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:21:56 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 19:21:56 GMT -5
In the end, I don't think Rose will be the player he was. But I think he'll be just good enough. Sternumman, I think the Heat will be an interesting team and it will be great to see them in the playoffs. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:31:08 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 19:31:08 GMT -5
What stats were incorrect? I said for his career he averages less than 7 asst and 1 st per game. 14th among PG's? That is horrible. If you go w/ all qualified players he finished 82. 81 players shot better from the field then him. If you say thats not fair because centers and forwards play closer to the rim. 24 guards shot better. You go by rankings of position. Not overall. A PG will never be Top 25 in shooting % over a center that is two feet from the basket Or even a PF that works more along the basket. It's easier for them to keep their shooting % up. That's laughable to even compare the two. So yes, 81 players shot better than Rose, but I'm sure you could find 50 players that shot better than Tony Parker and most will be either Centers or PF's. And yes, 14th among PG's, but that's why I qualified it in shot attempts. Someone could be ranked fifth but have only taken half the shots as the guy behind him. Much easier to keep one's average up if they're only attempting like 10 shots per game. Well last yr Wade was 8th(on players that took 14 or more shots a game he was 2nd behind Lebron), Dragic was 26th, Parker 28th(10th among players w/ 13 or more attempts), Lance 33rd. So no 50 players did not shoot better than Parker. In Roses MVP yr Parker was 17th(4th among players w/ 13 or more attempts) Wade 31st among all players( he took 18.2 attempts to roses 19.7) Of the top ten players in shots attempted that yr Rose was ninth in fg% espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalsAttempted/year/2011 |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:34:20 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 19:34:20 GMT -5
In the end, I don't think Rose will be the player he was. But I think he'll be just good enough. Sternumman, I think the Heat will be an interesting team and it will be great to see them in the playoffs. And in my original post I said I thought the east went through them. Just like the Bulls the Heat chances lie on their oft injured guard. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:44:31 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 19:44:31 GMT -5
Something tells me that you just really don't like Rose. What does his personality matter? What's the point of nit picking at the person he is? He's a good guy that doesn't look to take the limelight. Rare among superstars. He's fine the way he is. Your right I just dont like him. Im not trying to nit pick the person he is, I just believe he's not genuine. Again my opinion. Durrants humble, I like him. Stockton was my 2nd favorite player as a kid behind Jordan, he was humble. Have no problem w/ humble, I do prefer my players cocky though, I just think he has no communication skills and comes across that way. I dont buy it. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:47:52 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 19:47:52 GMT -5
You go by rankings of position. Not overall. A PG will never be Top 25 in shooting % over a center that is two feet from the basket Or even a PF that works more along the basket. It's easier for them to keep their shooting % up. That's laughable to even compare the two. So yes, 81 players shot better than Rose, but I'm sure you could find 50 players that shot better than Tony Parker and most will be either Centers or PF's. And yes, 14th among PG's, but that's why I qualified it in shot attempts. Someone could be ranked fifth but have only taken half the shots as the guy behind him. Much easier to keep one's average up if they're only attempting like 10 shots per game. Well last yr Wade was 8th(on players that took 14 or more shots a game he was 2nd behind Lebron), Dragic was 26th, Parker 28th(10th among players w/ 13 or more attempts), Lance 33rd. So no 50 players did not shoot better than Parker. In Roses MVP yr Parker was 17th(4th among players w/ 13 or more attempts) Wade 31st among all players( he took 18.2 attempts to roses 19.7) Of the top ten players in shots attempted that yr Rose was ninth in fg% espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/field-goals/sort/fieldGoalsAttempted/year/2011And last year Wade was playing with someone named LeBron. Pretty sure there weren't many people doubling him. Parker was playing some guys named Duncan and Ginoboli in any one of those seasons. There's far more room for players like Wade and Parker to shoot than say Rose who gets far more keyed in on game in and game out. Put Rose on the Heat or the Spurs and his FG% probably goes up. Put Wade or Parker on the Eastern Conference Bulls and their FG% probably go down. Supporting cast has a lot to do with it other than being a great player. Alright, maybe Parker was a poor example. But my point still stands. He's the only PG in the Top 20 for overall FG%. Him and Ty Lawson were the only PG's in the Top 40 in Rose's MVP season. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:53:16 GMT -5
Post by Cast on Oct 8, 2014 19:53:16 GMT -5
I have some questions about Rose too. He can still be elite but I'm not sure if he is top tier, at least not anymore. At this point I'd take Paul, Westbrook, Parker, and Curry over him. I still believe that he can comeback and be a very great player but it is going to take some time. If he doesn't regain some of his ability guys like Kyrie, Wall, Lillard, etc will pass him perhaps even as soon as this season. During FIBA he just looked out of sync. The explosiveness was there but his shot and more importantly his ability to finish at the basket was pretty lackluster. He's personality is chill though. Poor guy I can't imagine what he's been through physically and emotionally. Chicago is his city, I know he can't help but feel he has let them down. Pau and Noah should dominate the East's relatively weak front courts. I watch some of Pau's play over the summer, he still has some left in the tank. Noah, I just admire the guy. Hated him coming out of college and I didn't think he'd ever do that much in his NBA career but he has proved a lot of people wrong. Stats aren't his thing but his impact on the game is huge. Rose may be the hometown kid but the Bulls get their personality from Noah. Dude just fights. Looking forward to the Cavs/Bulls games for sure. They are only gonna play twice (i think) but the Cavs/Warriors games are gonna be outrageously entertaining. I like the Warriors squad a lot, not completely ready to call them a contender but they have one of the best starting 5's and a nice group of young guys. I hope they sort it out. I really like Curry and Iguodala games. I was talking about the Warriors/Cavs games. They both have high octane offenses. |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:58:10 GMT -5
Post by spaneli on Oct 8, 2014 19:58:10 GMT -5
Something tells me that you just really don't like Rose. What does his personality matter? What's the point of nit picking at the person he is? He's a good guy that doesn't look to take the limelight. Rare among superstars. He's fine the way he is. Your right I just dont like him. Im not trying to nit pick the person he is, I just believe he's not genuine. Again my opinion. Durrants humble, I like him. Stockton was my 2nd favorite player as a kid behind Jordan, he was humble. Have no problem w/ humble, I do prefer my players cocky though, I just think he has no communication skills and comes across that way. I dont buy it. All I can say is that as a person who has seen him his whole career, including his high school days at Simeon, it's not an act. He's clearly that humble and clearly genuine. He's never been one for the limelight. And he's never been one to step out in front of the camera. He grew up on the south side where his brothers did everything they could do to keep him from being in the limelight because of the neighborhood he lived in. A very rough neighborhood. Almost a warzone. I don't think he could have survived there and not have been genuine. And that's coming from someone who lives on the west side, the little less dangerous cousin to the south side. |
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Oct 8, 2014 20:13:43 GMT -5
Post by Sternumman on Oct 8, 2014 20:13:43 GMT -5
And last year Wade was playing with someone named LeBron. Pretty sure there weren't many people doubling him. Parker was playing some guys named Duncan and Ginoboli in any one of those seasons. There's far more room for players like Wade and Parker to shoot than say Rose who gets far more keyed in on game in and game out. Put Rose on the Heat or the Spurs and his FG% probably goes up. Put Wade or Parker on the Eastern Conference Bulls and their FG% probably go down. Supporting cast has a lot to do with it other than being a great player. Alright, maybe Parker was a poor example. But my point still stands. He's the only PG in the Top 20 for overall FG%. Him and Ty Lawson were the only PG's in the Top 40 in Rose's MVP season. Wades fg% has gone up since he played w/ LBJ there is no debating that, but he still never shot .445. He's at .492 for his career and .482 pre Lebron. In 2009 when he led the league in scoring and FGA he shot .491 1st for sg's |
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But you're right, Noah and him should have great season. I still remember draft night when the Bulls took him. Jay Bilas was one of the main opponents to the Bulls selecting Noah. Just about every analyst thought that night that the Bulls over drafted Noah at #9. Re-do that draft now and he might go #2 behind Durant. He proved a ton of people wrong. And a lot people wish they could do that draft over again.
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5