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Post by Beady’s Here Now on Dec 3, 2017 17:47:29 GMT -5
I am pro choice too. There is a need for information and counseling though as well as guidelines and rules. It’s such a sensitive topic. I’m sure that it’s not a decision that most women take lightly. If someone is pro life then great they can follow their belief if they ever are in that situation. Isn’t that like saying in regard to guns, that those who don’t want guns can follow their belief and not own one? Just saying.... Pro-Life, btw. (Caveat being, rape or danger to the mother). |
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Post by jordan71421 on Dec 3, 2017 17:51:59 GMT -5
Pro-choice all the way. What's a better way to fuck up your life than unwanted pregnancy? Especially when it's some drunken mistake when you're 16 or even worse, after a rape. It's morally more wrong to be forced to keep the baby than doing an abortion.[/b] That's a pretty heinous statement right there. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 18:43:16 GMT -5
Pro-choice all the way. What's a better way to fuck up your life than unwanted pregnancy? Especially when it's some drunken mistake when you're 16 or even worse, after a rape. It's morally more wrong to be forced to keep the baby than doing an abortion.[/b] That's a pretty heinous statement right there. [/quote] As long as the abortion is done before weeks ~25 the fetus will not experience any pain. The earlier it's done the less I feel it's morally wrong. |
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 4, 2017 1:50:48 GMT -5
How is that an easy fix? Someone who is a foster parent gets a say on abortion but a non foster parent doesn't? I think you need to elaborate a lot lot more on your statement as I am a bit confused on what you're actually putting forward. Okay. The pro-life stance says that all life is sacred and there are alternatives to abortion. Adoption is touted as the most common fix for an unwanted pregnancy. A woman should be forced to relinquish her right to choose whether or not to give birth and can then only choose whether or not to retain custody of the child. Adoption absolutely happens, but there are far fewer viable adoptive homes than the pro-life coalition wants to admit. There are far fewer options still the older the child becomes. Despite all of the facts associated with social services, which also receive decreased funding from the same conservative policy makers, abortion is viewed as immoral. If whomever wanted to legally prohibit abortion was forced to take responsibility for housing, feeding and raising the child either through increased taxes for social services or becoming licensed to take in and care for these unwanted miracles, the need for choice would become a little clearer. The politicians demanding a repeal of the law are not offering to help deal with the consequences of that decision and until they do, their opinion shouldn't carry any weight. So your argument is financial? I'm still a bit lost on what you're actually saying tbh. |
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 4, 2017 2:04:01 GMT -5
It's a question that can cause emotion in people which is understandable but it needs to be investigated and proven in court which I know over here in Ireland won't happen in a few months. I've spoken to people who really believe if the woman says she was raped then the abortion should be allowed which is batshit crazy. No proof etc needed just her word that a rape happened. I do not think that abortion should be granted on whether or not a woman was raped. I know that to the rape question, pro lifers will say that out of a bad situation comes a miracle. Or some people would adopt the disgusting stance that the rape was the woman’s fault... and she has to take responsibility for the consequences. Overall there are many more victims than liars and they should not have to suffer more because of a few liars. There is also the debate if abortion for medical reasons. Sadly we don’t live in a perfect world where everyone will use birth control and a birth control that does not fail. These questions are sensitive and I wish that government would not make faith based decisions. Are you saying all pro lifers will use the argument that a miracle can come from rape, a miracle baby etc? I'm sure you understand not everyone who is pro life is some religious headbanger, some pro life people find religion abhorrent. Rape is a disgusting criminal act and certainly not the fault of the victim but you said "victims should not have to suffer more because of a few liars" which I find a bit blase and we need to remember a rape needs to be investigated and brought to court which can take a long time. "faith based decisions" alarms me too as it implies religious reasons are behind being pro life which is not the case for many people. |
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 4, 2017 2:07:36 GMT -5
[/b] That's a pretty heinous statement right there. [/quote] As long as the abortion is done before weeks ~25 the fetus will not experience any pain. The earlier it's done the less I feel it's morally wrong. [/quote] I'll second the the guy who called what you said a heinous statement. |
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 4, 2017 2:08:54 GMT -5
I am pro choice too. There is a need for information and counseling though as well as guidelines and rules. It’s such a sensitive topic. I’m sure that it’s not a decision that most women take lightly. If someone is pro life then great they can follow their belief if they ever are in that situation. Pro-Life, btw. (Caveat being, rape or danger to the mother). Once again we have the rape argument...... |
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 4, 2017 2:12:16 GMT -5
Pro-choice all the way. What's a better way to fuck up your life than unwanted pregnancy? Especially when it's some drunken mistake when you're 16 or even worse, after a rape. It's morally more wrong to be forced to keep the baby than doing an abortion. How is it morally wrong to give the child a life but not morally wrong to terminate the life? |
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Post by globe on Dec 4, 2017 5:02:13 GMT -5
Pro-choice all the way. What's a better way to fuck up your life than unwanted pregnancy? Especially when it's some drunken mistake when you're 16 or even worse, after a rape. It's morally more wrong to be forced to keep the baby than doing an abortion. How is it morally wrong to give the child a life but not morally wrong to terminate the life? How is it morally right for you to judge somebody on what they do with their own body? |
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 4, 2017 5:13:44 GMT -5
How is it morally wrong to give the child a life but not morally wrong to terminate the life? How is it morally right for you to judge somebody on what they do with their own body? Because the child's life is important. It's a human life, and it's going to a vote here in Ireland in 2018 so people on both sides can cast their vote. |
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Post by globe on Dec 4, 2017 6:13:30 GMT -5
How is it morally right for you to judge somebody on what they do with their own body? Because the child's life is important. It's a human life, and it's going to a vote here in Ireland in 2018 so people on both sides can cast their vote. It's not terminating a child's life though. |
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 4, 2017 7:23:21 GMT -5
Because the child's life is important. It's a human life, and it's going to a vote here in Ireland in 2018 so people on both sides can cast their vote. It's not terminating a child's life though.  ?? |
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Post by The Escapist on Dec 4, 2017 7:51:46 GMT -5
It's not terminating a child's life though. ?? It's a fetus, not a child or a baby. If the question was "Should we kill babies?", I don't think it would be such a divisive issue. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2017 8:54:12 GMT -5
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Post by caro on Dec 4, 2017 9:28:40 GMT -5
I do not think that abortion should be granted on whether or not a woman was raped. I know that to the rape question, pro lifers will say that out of a bad situation comes a miracle. Or some people would adopt the disgusting stance that the rape was the woman’s fault... and she has to take responsibility for the consequences. Overall there are many more victims than liars and they should not have to suffer more because of a few liars. There is also the debate if abortion for medical reasons. Sadly we don’t live in a perfect world where everyone will use birth control and a birth control that does not fail. These questions are sensitive and I wish that government would not make faith based decisions. Are you saying all pro lifers will use the argument that a miracle can come from rape, a miracle baby etc? I'm sure you understand not everyone who is pro life is some religious headbanger, some pro life people find religion abhorrent. Rape is a disgusting criminal act and certainly not the fault of the victim but you said "victims should not have to suffer more because of a few liars" which I find a bit blase and we need to remember a rape needs to be investigated and brought to court which can take a long time. "faith based decisions" alarms me too as it implies religious reasons are behind being pro life which is not the case for many people. It’s one stance about the pregnancy as a result of rape. I’m not saying it’s the only one. As far as abortion pending on decision whether or not a rape was committed, as you said trials can take a while which makes such a decision making process impossible as unless it is for medical reasons, abortions should be conducted no later than within the first trimester. There is a very delicate balance between women’s rights and ethics here and I don’t believe that a ban can achieve either. Also, with abortion being illegal it does open the door to back alley abortion and all the problems that come with it. Don’t get me wrong, I do not like the idea of abortion whatsoever, but I still think it must be an option. That’s also why I said that there should be counseling support provided as well as information. Surprisingly, many teenagers or even adults are misinformed about sexual health and such. Information about adoption and whatever support programs need to be part of this. Pregnancy is not easy and can be downright difficult and very dangerous in some instances, even for women with means and support. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be for someone without support or means. |
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Post by sfsorrow on Dec 4, 2017 10:46:50 GMT -5
Abortion may be the one issue that I cannot clearly decide on in my own head. On one hand, I'm a firm believer in the right to self and being able to do whatever you want to do to your own body (in the confines of the law.) But on the other hand, there's a lack of morality of those who are pro-choice, completing negating the fact that there is in fact a human being involved (regardless if you believe that life begins at conception or not.) I wrestle with this topic in my head all of the time. Understandable - it's not an ideal situation. Here's how I think of it. Someone is in desperate need of a kidney transplant; they will die if they don't get a kidney. You are the only person who is a matching donor. Who has more rights in that situation? Does the dying person have a right to your kidney in order to live, or do you have the right to say no? In my view, you should have the right to say no rather than the person has the right to your kidney, even though I think it probably sucks for you to not give the person your kidney. Moreover, the state should not definitely not make it illegal for you to say no to someone taking your kidney for their own survival. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2017 10:47:33 GMT -5
Pro-choice A large number of arguments on both sides, so really cba to give my reasons for/against each one. Would be quick to just simply type them out, but it's one of those things where slightly misphrasing something or misinterpreting something results in people on either side likely getting called tonnes of unnecessary shit... Personally, my main reason centres around that I don't believe life is always better than death. Won't elaborate, as before, I'm really not great with words. I tried putting my thoughts on this into words and re-read it back to myself and realised I'd written an incoherent argument justifying genocide, which definitely does not reflect my opinion, and so obvs I backspaced that particular paragraph  |
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Post by eva Fawkes on Dec 4, 2017 18:58:28 GMT -5
This thread's going about as well as expected.....
Thanks.
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Post by akaidleroses on Dec 5, 2017 2:47:56 GMT -5
Are you saying all pro lifers will use the argument that a miracle can come from rape, a miracle baby etc? I'm sure you understand not everyone who is pro life is some religious headbanger, some pro life people find religion abhorrent. Rape is a disgusting criminal act and certainly not the fault of the victim but you said "victims should not have to suffer more because of a few liars" which I find a bit blase and we need to remember a rape needs to be investigated and brought to court which can take a long time. "faith based decisions" alarms me too as it implies religious reasons are behind being pro life which is not the case for many people. It’s one stance about the pregnancy as a result of rape. I’m not saying it’s the only one. As far as abortion pending on decision whether or not a rape was committed, as you said trials can take a while which makes such a decision making process impossible as unless it is for medical reasons, abortions should be conducted no later than within the first trimester. There is a very delicate balance between women’s rights and ethics here and I don’t believe that a ban can achieve either. Also, with abortion being illegal it does open the door to back alley abortion and all the problems that come with it. Don’t get me wrong, I do not like the idea of abortion whatsoever, but I still think it must be an option. That’s also why I said that there should be counseling support provided as well as information. Surprisingly, many teenagers or even adults are misinformed about sexual health and such. Information about adoption and whatever support programs need to be part of this. Pregnancy is not easy and can be downright difficult and very dangerous in some instances, even for women with means and support. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be for someone without support or means. Back alley abortions is another term that stirs emotion in people and I'm sure it still happens in parts of the world and even on occasions in advanced countries but in the case of Irish women they fly to the UK for an abortion and some feel the need to live tweet the whole thing which was pretty disturbing to say the least. www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/two-irish-women-live-tweet-journey-to-uk-for-abortion-1.27631942018 will see the Irish go to the polls in a democratic vote on this and and whether the result is the one I want or not I will accept the outcome. People's opinions on when life begins, the morality etc likely won't change and it will be a dirty dog fight in the media and debates from both sides next year but the people will have their say. Other random thoughts I have at this hour of the morning about the 2018 vote would be the stereotypes of pro lifers being Jesus freaks and elderly needs to disappear along with pro choicers being the angry looking lesbian men are bastards type. There is an element of that on both sides but they are not the majority they appear. It's the voting from ordinary people that will swing this election not the nutters screaming at each other on the streets. The minister for children needs to keep her beak out of it although she's irritating so many people these past few years it may work against the pro choice campaign. Jaysus I've a headache now even thinking about this and trying to get the words out. laters. |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Dec 5, 2017 2:58:44 GMT -5
The ladies choose. Its their body, I would never tell them what to do with it.
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Post by sgtpeppr on Dec 5, 2017 3:16:03 GMT -5
pro-choice...unless its mine.
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Post by globe on Dec 5, 2017 4:29:49 GMT -5
Isn't it interesting that the person giving the most sensible thoughts on this subject is caro? You know, a woman.
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Post by mimmihopps on Dec 5, 2017 4:36:56 GMT -5
Isn't it interesting that the person giving the most sensible thoughts on this subject is caro? You know, a woman. I do agree with caro and I'm a woman too, so is your wife, your mum, your sister, everyone else's girlfriend, wife, sister and female friend. I'm not saying that I'm for abortion, but there should be a legal way for us, women to protect our bodies. |
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Post by LightsOffInside on Dec 5, 2017 4:39:12 GMT -5
Pro-choice hands down no question. Much more of things in life should be choice.
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Post by funhouse on Dec 5, 2017 5:03:27 GMT -5
It might be an obvious point to make, but I'll make it anyway: If men would be the ones getting pregnant, abortion wouldn't be an issue.
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5