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Post by zeberdee on Nov 18, 2024 15:35:13 GMT -5
I'm sure we've all heard Noel claim interviews that most of the songs he's written, he just "remembers" them. I think he's said something like "if they are any good, you'll remember them the next morning."(EDIT: it may have been Mccartney that actually said this quote) This is something I've never really quite believed from him. When you are constantly writing albums year after year like Noel was in the 90's there's no way you're just remembering every chord sequence, chord change, every vocal melody line just off the top of your head. For example take a look at the list The Crimson Rambler composed of the songs and ideas from Noels Notebook: forum.live4ever.uk.com/post/1342507Yes some may be lyrics, or instrumentals. But there's no way all this information, aside from a title, is just stored in Noels head. The melodies, the chords etc. This leads me to believe that Noel had to be doing something which many songwriters to to this day, (except with a phone instead of a Walkman) and thats recording your ideas down during the songwriting process in order to complete and remember the arrangement and melody of a song. This is where i stumbled on a few quotes from Noel himself about using a Walkman to record to when writing his songs: In a Feb 96 interview with Q, on the topic of Noel adding his acoustic bit into the sets, he had this to say: Further proof of Noel using a walkman to record his ideas can also be seen in this Sept 97 interview with Q on the topic of him creating the "scream" part of Fade In/Out: We also have an interview with GP shortly after the release of SOTSOG, in which Noel claimed: We also have this quote from a 2005 Interview with MOJO from Bonehead: Add all these quotes together and I think it gives us a pretty clear indication that Noel was pretty much recording all his songs and ideas firstly to a Walkman throughout the majority of the 1990's. My questions are: Do these tapes still exist?
If so, who has them?
How many possible tapes could there be of this nature that DO exist? (It's possible Noel just recorded over tapes that already had songs on after the songs had been released, instead of using new ones) What exactly is on these tapes? I'd bet good money plenty of those "Noels Notebook" songs we never heard could have existed in one form or another on these tapes. I'd honestly prefer a CD full of prime Noel ideas from stuff like this as opposed to a new album. TLDR:Ignition/Noel, we know there are tapes from the 90s containing Noel songs and ideas that may exist in their original form, so release them! |
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 18, 2024 16:00:52 GMT -5
They're saving them for the 100th anniversaries.
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Post by mossy on Nov 18, 2024 17:48:18 GMT -5
The problem is, Oasis and their management weren’t a particularly professional unit, carefully storing and cataloguing these tapes for posterity.
They were all coke fiends bouncing from session to tour to after party and back again. Who knows what gold has been lost in attics and behind sofas following post-divorce house moves…
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Post by Supersonic on Nov 18, 2024 17:57:12 GMT -5
The problem is, Oasis and their management weren’t a particularly professional unit, carefully storing and cataloguing these tapes for posterity. They were all coke fiends bouncing from session to tour to after party and back again. Who knows what gold has been lost in attics and behind sofas following post-divorce house moves… Don’t forget to check that sock drawer. 🧦🗃️ |
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Post by imstandinghere on Nov 18, 2024 18:09:27 GMT -5
The problem is, Oasis and their management weren’t a particularly professional unit, carefully storing and cataloguing these tapes for posterity. They were all coke fiends bouncing from session to tour to after party and back again. Who knows what gold has been lost in attics and behind sofas following post-divorce house moves… Or they’re tactically missing to make for a good story |
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Post by mossy on Nov 19, 2024 4:29:22 GMT -5
The problem is, Oasis and their management weren’t a particularly professional unit, carefully storing and cataloguing these tapes for posterity. They were all coke fiends bouncing from session to tour to after party and back again. Who knows what gold has been lost in attics and behind sofas following post-divorce house moves… Or they’re tactically missing to make for a good story Both of these things can be true 🙂 |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Nov 23, 2024 15:58:12 GMT -5
I'm sure we've all heard Noel claim interviews that most of the songs he's written, he just "remembers" them. I think he's said something like "if they are any good, you'll remember them the next morning."(EDIT: it may have been Mccartney that actually said this quote) This is something I've never really quite believed from him. When you are constantly writing albums year after year like Noel was in the 90's there's no way you're just remembering every chord sequence, chord change, every vocal melody line just off the top of your head. For example take a look at the list The Crimson Rambler composed of the songs and ideas from Noels Notebook: forum.live4ever.uk.com/post/1342507Yes some may be lyrics, or instrumentals. But there's no way all this information, aside from a title, is just stored in Noels head. The melodies, the chords etc. Hey. Thanks for the shoutout. Noel definitely did say that about remembering the good stuff. I think the quote is on some old video interview on YouTube but I can't remember where exactly. I'm not really a musician myself but as a big fan of music it's quite evident to me that many good musicians can remember huge numbers of chord progressions, melody lines, lyrics etc. off the top of their head. Although I think you're underestimating this point Noel, like probably all musicians, did do stuff to help him remember. The notebooks I have written about before are good examples of this. These are all nice quotes and I think it's a subject worth exploring. I've wondered on this subject too and I think there might be more quotes out there that reference these sort of recordings. At the moment though, based on this evidence, I would say we can only say Noel was recording in this kind of manner from 1996 at the earliest. Find some more quotes though and we might be able to push this back further. I personally believe that there probably are some recordings of unreleased songs from the time of Noel's 1993 and 1994 notebooks but whether they're solo recordings or not I'm not so sure. We know Noel was recording songs Mark Coyle's house from at least Nov 1992-Sep 1993. Was this because Noel didn't have the means to record stuff himself? Did Mark just have better gear? Did Noel need Mark's input? There's very little information about these recordings apart from a location and 2 dates. It would be nice if some self recorded stuff from the 90s still does exists but who knows. The only lofi recording I can think of from the 90s I think could potentially fit this subject is the instrumental Oasis management tried to play off as the Mustique demo to 'Be Here Now' (if you don't know already the actual demo couldn't be included because it contains an uncleared sample so as a quick last second 'fix' they replaced it with some unknown lofi instrumental we know basically nothing about)... |
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Post by zeberdee on Nov 23, 2024 18:07:05 GMT -5
I personally believe that there probably are some recordings of unreleased songs from the time of Noel's 1993 and 1994 notebooks but whether they're solo recordings or not I'm not so sure. We know Noel was recording songs Mark Coyle's house from at least Nov 1992-Sep 1993. Was this because Noel didn't have the means to record stuff himself? Did Mark just have better gear? Did Noel need Mark's input? There's very little information about these recordings apart from a location and 2 dates.
It would be nice if some self recorded stuff from the 90s still does exists but who knows. The only lofi recording I can think of from the 90s I think could potentially fit this subject is the instrumental Oasis management tried to play off as the Mustique demo to 'Be Here Now' (if you don't know already the actual demo couldn't be included because it contains an uncleared sample so as a quick last second 'fix' they replaced it with some unknown lofi instrumental we know basically nothing about)... I can't think of any similar quotes really except maybe the story Noel told about walking a long listening to his Walkman, which inspired a line for Morning Glory, which can only have been pre-95. But again that only references listening, not recording. In fact after reading your comment I did a little more searching and I think you might be right. Recording with an internal mic, was just not something that was normal on a Walkman in the mid 90s. Most models did not have this feature. You can find evidence of this in their own website here: walkman.land/year/1994that's not to say it wasn't possible and there were definitely models capable of doing this, some probably not even made by Walkman. Smaller portable Cassette recorders were definitely a thing as well then. Noels quote about "singing in to a walkman" is likely him just identifying any kind of cassette recorder as a "walkman" because they were most popular at the time. It'd be an interesting question to ask him about in an interview I think. Regarding that BHN instrumental, didn't Noel say it was meant to be part of some interludes that were meant to appear throughout the album? In fact i just found a post from you yourself providing some info: forum.live4ever.uk.com/post/1660467 I'm assuming it was recorded during the BHN studio sessions as he also mentions messing about on a piano. Whilst you're here btw, do you have any further info or references to the 3 acoustic songs that Kyle Dale mentioned a while back that feature on one of his tapes, that he alleged were recorded during the back end of the BHN sessions with Owen. I know he said one shares the same melody in its bridge as the "princes and kings" part of Go Let It Out, and that Bonehead himself hadn't even heard two of them. Was there any good theories, speculation or further mentions as to what these songs could have been? I think along with those three, If We Shadows and Untitled, none of us fans were ever aware of their existence for 20 years...so it doe make you wonder what else could be out there from that golden 90s era... |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Nov 23, 2024 18:33:14 GMT -5
I personally believe that there probably are some recordings of unreleased songs from the time of Noel's 1993 and 1994 notebooks but whether they're solo recordings or not I'm not so sure. We know Noel was recording songs Mark Coyle's house from at least Nov 1992-Sep 1993. Was this because Noel didn't have the means to record stuff himself? Did Mark just have better gear? Did Noel need Mark's input? There's very little information about these recordings apart from a location and 2 dates.
It would be nice if some self recorded stuff from the 90s still does exists but who knows. The only lofi recording I can think of from the 90s I think could potentially fit this subject is the instrumental Oasis management tried to play off as the Mustique demo to 'Be Here Now' (if you don't know already the actual demo couldn't be included because it contains an uncleared sample so as a quick last second 'fix' they replaced it with some unknown lofi instrumental we know basically nothing about)... I can't think of any similar quotes really except maybe the story Noel told about walking a long listening to his Walkman, which inspired a line for Morning Glory, which can only have been pre-95. But again that only references listening, not recording. In fact after reading your comment I did a little more searching and I think you might be right. Recording with an internal mic, was just not something that was normal on a Walkman in the mid 90s. Most models did not have this feature. You can find evidence of this in their own website here: walkman.land/year/1994that's not to say it wasn't possible and there were definitely models capable of doing this, some probably not even made by Walkman. Smaller portable Cassette recorders were definitely a thing as well then. Noels quote about "singing in to a walkman" is likely him just identifying any kind of cassette recorder as a "walkman" because they were most popular at the time. It'd be an interesting question to ask him about in an interview I think. Regarding that BHN instrumental, didn't Noel say it was meant to be part of some interludes that were meant to appear throughout the album? In fact i just found a post from you yourself providing some info: forum.live4ever.uk.com/post/1660467 I'm assuming it was recorded during the BHN studio sessions as he also mentions messing about on a piano. That's the most likely theory in my opinion. The recording we've got is likely some kind of demo and is more lo-fi than the rest of the demos he was recording around that time. We have no idea when it was recorded but you'd assume it was from that era though if Oasis management (and presumably Noel) approved it for release. Personally I think it sounds of the time too. Off the top of my head the only extra info I have is that Noel said in an interview on 6 Aug 1997 that the most recent song he wrote was a song called 'God Will Never Save Your Soul' which may be one of them. Likewise 'Slow' was first namechecked by Owen Morris in a month later. I believe the only other Noel written song we know was kicking around in 1997 was 'Full On' (and in part 'Teotihuacan') and Kyle has said they're all unknown songs (minus that section of 'Go Let It Out) so none of them are that. |
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Post by Mad4it on Nov 23, 2024 19:44:40 GMT -5
Hi the track slow I had given to me years ago a by an friend rehearsal version but I can't guarantee if its real or not im not sure my self it's just a small snippet
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Post by zeberdee on Nov 23, 2024 19:48:55 GMT -5
Ah I completely forgot about "God Will Never Save Your Soul". Let me also remind you of this interview with Noel in HotPress 2001: I think this quote right here, along with Kyle Dales tape, along with If We Shadow and Untitled, confirm there is definitely a tape out there somewhere containing more songs than we know of. Although we all know Noel loves to exaggerate, "eight or nine" to him could easily mean 5 or 6. I think it's pretty clear Slow was one of these songs. Owen Morris would never have mentioned it otherwise. I also think its highly likely now that somewhere leading up to the BHN re-issue, Noel was approached with this tape that probably created a conversation that went something along the lines of: "we found that tape from 97 where you played those new songs, but we wont be releasing all of it though, we're only gonna put two songs on there for now" And I reckon Noel himself chose If We Shadows and Untitled to be those two songs. I also think he intentionally decided not to use Slow for the re-issue because in his mind he always knew there was a chance he would revisit it, as evidenced by his comments with Matt Morgan(?) over the last few years about possibly doing that. The question I have is I wonder why Kyle's tape only hold 3 of these tracks? Or does his tape also hold IFS and Untitled, and it was actually only 5 songs as opposed to "8 or 9"? |
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Post by zeberdee on Nov 23, 2024 19:54:52 GMT -5
Hi the track slow I had given to me years ago a by an friend rehearsal version but I can't guarantee if its real or not im not sure my self it's just a small snippet do you still have it? |
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Post by Mad4it on Nov 23, 2024 19:59:56 GMT -5
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Post by zeberdee on Nov 23, 2024 20:25:18 GMT -5
I believe this is from an old bootleg from 2003 called "rarer than rare". See hereTrack 14 was labelled as "slow" and this is what featured. Some speculate its Gem singing I think. But it definitely has nothing to do with "Slow" the song written by Noel. |
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Post by Mad4it on Nov 23, 2024 20:28:27 GMT -5
so what is it fake or real
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Post by tomlivesforever on Nov 24, 2024 2:04:16 GMT -5
so what is it fake or real People generally like things to be real. |
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Post by andymorris on Nov 24, 2024 2:22:28 GMT -5
The real Macca quote is more something alone the lines : If we didnt remember the song the next day, it wasn't good enough. That was in the early Beatles days, when they didn't have a recording equipement.
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Post by andymorris on Nov 24, 2024 2:23:55 GMT -5
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Post by andymorris on Nov 24, 2024 2:28:57 GMT -5
Ah I completely forgot about "God Will Never Save Your Soul". Let me also remind you of this interview with Noel in HotPress 2001: I think this quote right here, along with Kyle Dales tape, along with If We Shadow and Untitled, confirm there is definitely a tape out there somewhere containing more songs than we know of. Although we all know Noel loves to exaggerate, "eight or nine" to him could easily mean 5 or 6. I think it's pretty clear Slow was one of these songs. Owen Morris would never have mentioned it otherwise. I also think its highly likely now that somewhere leading up to the BHN re-issue, Noel was approached with this tape that probably created a conversation that went something along the lines of: "we found that tape from 97 where you played those new songs, but we wont be releasing all of it though, we're only gonna put two songs on there for now" And I reckon Noel himself chose If We Shadows and Untitled to be those two songs. I also think he intentionally decided not to use Slow for the re-issue because in his mind he always knew there was a chance he would revisit it, as evidenced by his comments with Matt Morgan(?) over the last few years about possibly doing that. The question I have is I wonder why Kyle's tape only hold 3 of these tracks? Or does his tape also hold IFS and Untitled, and it was actually only 5 songs as opposed to "8 or 9"? There's step in re-releases. The first big release, you dont include the most important unreleased tracks. You remaster, remix, and put throwaways on it if there is something else to market. The mustique demos were enough, it was a big thing. With the re-think and the remaster it was enough. Then he put two throaways for the sake of it. Then will come the bigs things. Alternates mixes maybe, with a complete re-think which i bet will happen eventually. and maybe one or two unreleased tracks for the 30th. We'll only get the full set of BHN recorded songs in the next cycle, maybe for 40th anniversary. when there is nothing else to offer bar those. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Nov 24, 2024 16:48:05 GMT -5
Ah I completely forgot about "God Will Never Save Your Soul". Let me also remind you of this interview with Noel in HotPress 2001: I think this quote right here, along with Kyle Dales tape, along with If We Shadow and Untitled, confirm there is definitely a tape out there somewhere containing more songs than we know of. Although we all know Noel loves to exaggerate, "eight or nine" to him could easily mean 5 or 6. I think it's pretty clear Slow was one of these songs. Owen Morris would never have mentioned it otherwise. I reckon it's likely that there are more recordings of Be Here Now era songs that still exist, even if they are instrumental. Regarding that particular tape it's worth remembering some of these songs might be stuff like 'Flashbax' too. It's plausible 'Slow' could be one of these songs but we don't know for sure. I think that's a plausible narrative but I'd like to see more evidence. The Be Here Now reissue was back in 2015 and he didn't mention finding 'Slow' until 6 years later. That's not to say these events couldn't be connected but it's hard to prove. I think it's likely that there was more unreleased material than those 2 songs but b-sides, Mustique demos and other miscellaneous recordings were always going to make up the bulk of bonus CDs so only so much space could be allocated. A somewhat pessimistic answer as to why only two unreleased songs were released might be because Noel simply thought the others weren't good enough to release. I might be wrong but I don't think Kyle's tape holds them 2 songs as well. Noel may have simplified the story by referring to one DAT but there could be numerous of DATs of unreleased stuff spread over a wide span of time. |
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Post by zeberdee on Nov 24, 2024 17:53:07 GMT -5
Ah I completely forgot about "God Will Never Save Your Soul". Let me also remind you of this interview with Noel in HotPress 2001: I think this quote right here, along with Kyle Dales tape, along with If We Shadow and Untitled, confirm there is definitely a tape out there somewhere containing more songs than we know of. Although we all know Noel loves to exaggerate, "eight or nine" to him could easily mean 5 or 6. I think it's pretty clear Slow was one of these songs. Owen Morris would never have mentioned it otherwise. I reckon it's likely that there are more recordings of Be Here Now era songs that still exist, even if they are instrumental. Regarding that particular tape it's worth remembering some of these songs might be stuff like 'Flashbax' too. It's plausible 'Slow' could be one of these songs but we don't know for sure. Ah, I forgot Flashbax was recorded very late on, so that's definitely plausible. Regarding Slow, the thing that sways me to it possibly being one of these songs, is the original comment Owen made about it. It had to have been a situation/memory with some significance for him to remember the song, its title and enough to mention it in an interview. Lets assume Slow isn't one of these songs and was never recorded, would Owen have mentioned it after just randomly hearing Noel play it one night, especially over the other 5(at least) songs he knew Noel had that he's heard more and actually recorded with Noel...doesn't make sense imo that he would choose to namedrop a random unrecorded one over all those that had already been put down to tape. I also found this searching more into this topic and Im sure youve heard this before: From the 15:15 timestamp onwards we hear Noel's response to Kyle trying to get these demos back to him. I almost cringed at times during Noels response. What is with the deflection and excuses from Noel here and this ridiculous USB story?Do you know why he sounds so miffed here and his response almost sounds bitter? From Noels perspective it's just an eager fan trying to get some old demos back to him... I think the fact Noel himself name drops If We Shadows as likely being on there is telling, and this again adds up to the fact that these "8 or 9" songs Noel originally referred to are all part of the same batch, which includes Kyles songs and this may be because Noel is already aware of the tape(s) because he listened to them himself somewhere pre-BHN reissue, maybe the others were already planned for distant future releases and he didn't wanna give the public any info before needed. Still an odd response from Noel. |
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Post by The Crimson Rambler on Nov 24, 2024 18:36:13 GMT -5
I reckon it's likely that there are more recordings of Be Here Now era songs that still exist, even if they are instrumental. Regarding that particular tape it's worth remembering some of these songs might be stuff like 'Flashbax' too. It's plausible 'Slow' could be one of these songs but we don't know for sure. Ah, I forgot Flashbax was recorded very late on, so that's definitely plausible. Regarding Slow, the thing that sways me to it possibly being one of these songs, is the original comment Owen made about it. It had to have been a situation/memory with some significance for him to remember the song, its title and enough to mention it in an interview. Lets assume Slow isn't one of these songs and was never recorded, would Owen have mentioned it after just randomly hearing Noel play it one night, especially over the other 5(at least) songs he knew Noel had that he's heard more and actually recorded with Noel...doesn't make sense imo that he would choose to namedrop a random unrecorded one over all those that had already been put down to tape. I think if 'Slow' caught Owen's attention it's pretty reasonable for him to remember it. Maybe it was simply written close to that interview? As a fan it's a disheartening response from Noel and I can see why it seems odd. Noel obviously has a very unique relationship to unreleased songs of his though which no doubt is very different to fans of his work. I suspect Noel genuinely thinks there's very little worth his time on the USB stick. I think we all know Noel can be pretty lazy but maybe he also just forgot about it too? Why Noel sounds as bitter as he does though I'm not sure. Maybe he's a bit embarrassed about his excuse? I'm sure there's more going on here but only Noel will probably be able to tell us that. I wouldn't put to much weight into the idea that there's a single tape with 8 or 9 songs on. You said it yourself earlier, Noel likes to exaggerate. He's a surprisingly unreliable source when it comes to stuff like this. But yeah, he may suspect that he already heard these songs back when 'If We Shadows' was uncovered. |
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Post by asimarx on Nov 25, 2024 12:42:44 GMT -5
Very interesting discussion and a nice read. On a side note, and I know the recordings on this channel were already deemed to be AI fake, the latest one still intrigued me. It is supposed to be a short collection of snippets of a low quality tape demo of "The Mirror & The Razorblade", which is believed to be an early version of the song Morning Glory. Anyway, in the clip you hear Noel sing, to the chorus melody of Morning Glory, "I don't live for Happy Mondays". "Live 4 Happy Mondays" was a song title mentioned in Noel's second publicly known Notebook from 1994 if I remember right. If this is fake, the creator obviously knows his stuff! The Crimson Rambler, what do you reckon? |
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Post by mossy on Nov 25, 2024 13:53:25 GMT -5
Ah, I forgot Flashbax was recorded very late on, so that's definitely plausible. Regarding Slow, the thing that sways me to it possibly being one of these songs, is the original comment Owen made about it. It had to have been a situation/memory with some significance for him to remember the song, its title and enough to mention it in an interview. Lets assume Slow isn't one of these songs and was never recorded, would Owen have mentioned it after just randomly hearing Noel play it one night, especially over the other 5(at least) songs he knew Noel had that he's heard more and actually recorded with Noel...doesn't make sense imo that he would choose to namedrop a random unrecorded one over all those that had already been put down to tape. I think if 'Slow' caught Owen's attention it's pretty reasonable for him to remember it. Maybe it was simply written close to that interview? As a fan it's a disheartening response from Noel and I can see why it seems odd. Noel obviously has a very unique relationship to unreleased songs of his though which no doubt is very different to fans of his work. I suspect Noel genuinely thinks there's very little worth his time on the USB stick. I think we all know Noel can be pretty lazy but maybe he also just forgot about it too? Why Noel sounds as bitter as he does though I'm not sure. Maybe he's a bit embarrassed about his excuse? I'm sure there's more going on here but only Noel will probably be able to tell us that. I wouldn't put to much weight into the idea that there's a single tape with 8 or 9 songs on. You said it yourself earlier, Noel likes to exaggerate. He's a surprisingly unreliable source when it comes to stuff like this. But yeah, he may suspect that he already heard these songs back when 'If We Shadows' was uncovered. Wow, how grumpy is Noel there! He’s been bootlegged for years though. Had albums leaked in advance. Probably pisses him off and he sees it as theft. He doesn’t want people listening to unfinished stuff he wasn’t happy to release yet himself and was stolen from him… So exciting to hear the guys describing how good the songs are though. And that some morphed into other songs on future albums. |
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Post by zeberdee on Nov 25, 2024 14:49:04 GMT -5
I think if 'Slow' caught Owen's attention it's pretty reasonable for him to remember it. Maybe it was simply written close to that interview? As a fan it's a disheartening response from Noel and I can see why it seems odd. Noel obviously has a very unique relationship to unreleased songs of his though which no doubt is very different to fans of his work. I suspect Noel genuinely thinks there's very little worth his time on the USB stick. I think we all know Noel can be pretty lazy but maybe he also just forgot about it too? Why Noel sounds as bitter as he does though I'm not sure. Maybe he's a bit embarrassed about his excuse? I'm sure there's more going on here but only Noel will probably be able to tell us that. I wouldn't put to much weight into the idea that there's a single tape with 8 or 9 songs on. You said it yourself earlier, Noel likes to exaggerate. He's a surprisingly unreliable source when it comes to stuff like this. But yeah, he may suspect that he already heard these songs back when 'If We Shadows' was uncovered. Wow, how grumpy is Noel there! He’s been bootlegged for years though. Had albums leaked in advance. Probably pisses him off and he sees it as theft. He doesn’t want people listening to unfinished stuff he wasn’t happy to release yet himself and was stolen from him… So exciting to hear the guys describing how good the songs are though. And that some morphed into other songs on future albums. Here's another clip of Kyle describing one of the songs in case you haven't seen it: |
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Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5
Nov 4, 2024 5:04:30 GMT -5