|
Post by The Escapist on Dec 14, 2023 2:55:16 GMT -5
I mean the bloke is 57 years old and has been dealing with a divorce after 12 years of marriage and 2 kids. The fact he is still on the road and smashing it out of the park every night is enough, I think we can cut him some slack with regards to producing fresh sounding "technicolour energy" new music can't we? It's more with how much he backtracked after blowing smoke up everyone's rear for two years about his new "direction", "parka monkeys", all that nonsense, just to straight up drop the album and EPs from his new shows. I always expected a retreat but the sheer abandonment of his body of work from 2017-2020 is odd. Yeah, I'm not just referring to Council Skies, there. The EP-era had decent tracks ("A Dream is All I Need to Get By", in particular) but even before everything else, the drop from the high-energy colour of Moon into standard Noel-produced tracks already felt like the wind being sucked out of his sails. As if the Beatles had put out some skiffle records after Revolver.And it's fair enough to say that he's not in the right place for an energetic sound, but even as a more retiring heartache-ridden album, Council Skies just doesn't hit for me. "Think of a Number" and "Dead to the World" have an emotional weight to them, but half the other tracks sound like bonus tracks. Noel's written great songs in a darker vein before, particularly for Standing on the Shoulders of Giants, and even a restrained cut like "Idler's Dream" can give me a lump in my throat, but for a good 50% of the run-time here I feel like I could be listening to any old semi-retired middle-aged singer-songwriter. It's his most inessential music so far, for me. I don't know. I don't like to moan so much, but I just feel unmoved by Noel's career right now. And I don't want to be, because I think he's one of the most naturally gifted melodists in the world and his level should be much higher than it is. If he's in a place of melancholic autumn years, then aim for a Mancunian Time Out of Mind!
|
|
|
Post by aesthetic on Dec 14, 2023 3:45:59 GMT -5
It's more with how much he backtracked after blowing smoke up everyone's rear for two years about his new "direction", "parka monkeys", all that nonsense, just to straight up drop the album and EPs from his new shows. I always expected a retreat but the sheer abandonment of his body of work from 2017-2020 is odd. I dunno I feel like Noel and Oasis have been doing that since day 1. As much as I adore them, they do talk an incredible amount of nonsense lol. And dropping relatively newer material from the sets in favour of tried and trusted classics is certainly not exclusive to Noel. I saw him on this tour and the setlist was like 40% Oasis, 30% new album, and a sprinkling of the rest. I'm happy with that mix. Although I was very annoyed he didn't play Holy Mountain as me and the mrs enjoy dancing like loons to that one.
|
|
|
Post by aesthetic on Dec 14, 2023 3:55:24 GMT -5
I just feel unmoved by Noel's career right now. Have you considered that maybe you have changed as a person also? And maybe you are looking for something that just isn't there anymore? You referenced songs from the SOTSOG era and the HC era, songs written 20+ years ago and songs you probably first heard when you were at a very different part in your life. New Noel songs are never going to hit like they used to, is how I feel like about it. I just try to enjoy them for what they are and I still enjoy the live shows immensely. "They" haven't take that away from me! (yet) Sorry to get a bit deep on a Thursday morning lol
|
|
|
Post by The Chief on Dec 14, 2023 6:50:05 GMT -5
I just feel unmoved by Noel's career right now. Have you considered that maybe you have changed as a person also? And maybe you are looking for something that just isn't there anymore? You referenced songs from the SOTSOG era and the HC era, songs written 20+ years ago and songs you probably first heard when you were at a very different part in your life. New Noel songs are never going to hit like they used to, is how I feel like about it. I just try to enjoy them for what they are and I still enjoy the live shows immensely. "They" haven't take that away from me! (yet) Sorry to get a bit deep on a Thursday morning lol Mmm not sure about that. After BHN, Noel had to learn how to write songs again, him no longer being a 27 year old lad on the dole. SOTSOG was the beginning of that but he then chose the ill-advised route of trying to regain the Oasis sound. But throughout the 00's, Noel was building his new songwriting style but the success Oasis had during those years made it look like they were fading away. Then NGHFB came out and Noel was back. What I'm saying is that in any long lasting careers, there will be highs and lows, changing in directions and in styles. For a lot of us here, this is a lower point but for others this record is his best. That was also true with Moon. So there's a matter of taste here too. But his career isn't over until he decides it is and until then, as long as he's writing and recording music, he can surprise us all.
|
|
|
Post by glider on Dec 14, 2023 8:52:38 GMT -5
I just feel unmoved by Noel's career right now. Have you considered that maybe you have changed as a person also? And maybe you are looking for something that just isn't there anymore? The only person who's changed is Noel drastically. Council Skies, once again, isn't a bad album. It's mostly the tunes are not exciting and you CAN FEEL the energy is gone, and not in a purposeful way. Divorce is terrible, personal drama is terrible, but bleeding that into your ensemble isn't fair to them. I feel like the way he got rid of Audrey (Ysee) and Charlotte was terrible - I'm not even entirely sure what Jess does now besides the tambourine - Mike Rowe does everything she does keyboard wise, and it also has new female backing singers anyway. All that work to "flavor" up the band has gone to the wayside. I'm glad fans are still loving the live shows, but they seem like he's fulfilling obligations now rather than enjoying them. Watching a recent interview of him, he actually looks and sounds like a version of him that didn't expand creatively after 2009. I hope he gets through everything and comes back stronger than ever.
|
|
|
Post by aesthetic on Dec 14, 2023 11:32:27 GMT -5
The only person who's changed is Noel drastically. I mean this is true of most people isn't it? It is far more worrying if you don't change over time. And with regards to it "not being fair" on the rest of his band -- they are hired hands. High Flying Birds is not a bunch of people who have formed together over common tastes and friendship etc. They are employees of Noel. Yes any employer has a responsibility to look after their staff but I'm sure it was all amicable and respectful when their part in the journey came to an end, I'm pretty sure Noel didn't just stop answering the phone one day. I am only basing my opinions on my own personal experiences, just like anyone else can, and I'm positive that if Oasis reformed tomorrow and dropped the second coming of Definitely Maybe, it would not hit the same way as it did when I was a teenager, how could it? I just think people have unrealistic expectations of how his records can make them feel and what they can get out of it. And that isn't just down to Noel or the listener, it is down to many factors, like the world we live in in 2023 is very different to 1993.
|
|
|
Post by aesthetic on Dec 14, 2023 11:37:16 GMT -5
After BHN, Noel had to learn how to write songs again, him no longer being a 27 year old lad on the dole. SOTSOG was the beginning of that but he then chose the ill-advised route of trying to regain the Oasis sound. But throughout the 00's, Noel was building his new songwriting style but the success Oasis had during those years made it look like they were fading away. Then NGHFB came out and Noel was back. I definitely agree with this. The last 3 Oasis albums were pretty awful in my opinion. I would struggle to make a decent EP out of the songs from that era. I much prefer everything Noel has done since 2010 than *almost* anything Oasis did post 2001. And that isn't just about the songwriting, it is the whole package.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Dec 14, 2023 13:54:43 GMT -5
To be honest, the time for Noel to radically alter his sound was 2000.
I don't think Standing on the Shoulders was it, it's a very mellow record but aside from a bit of psychedelic window dressing, the songs are as mid tempo and conventional as you'd expect (barring Fuckin In The Bushes). He wrongly retreated from going further than that.
To mix it up as a 50 year old on Who Built The Moon is far too gone to stick with it. That's the only album that doesn't sound like Noel retracing old steps and the one with a bit more of an kaleidoscopic up tempo sound for the most part. Old habits die hard though and looking at his career as a whole, I suppose it would have been shocking to see him stick to that change that only started in his fifties.
I wish he had. While his melodic gifts are still there, they're not at the ear grabbing elite level they used to be. They're nice and pleasant but on the same level as a Travis album. I like Travis a lot, but there's a reason why Noel Gallagher is far greater than them as a songwriter and I just don't want him being part of that pleasant melodic mid tempo rock crowd. Pleasant and fine can be as much an insult as a compliment though, especially if you hate acts like Travis, and he's too good for that.
While he still can, he should use those melodic gifts to vary the sound and feel of his songs, mix it up. That apocalyptic feel of The Man Who Built The Moon, that euphoria of Holy Mountain, the pure energy you get from things like Keep On Reaching (a song I love by the way), these are all grand statements in his solo career and they stand out because of the feel they give me, I don't feel like a passive listener like with Council Skies or Chasing Yesterday. That's got a lot to do with the real punch of that David Holmes produced music. Mix it with his melodic sense and he'll be grand. Notice that I don't mention any of his EP 'dance' tunes that I think are fairly tame sounding. And that goes for most of his self-produced songs since then, barring A Dream Is All I Need and Sail On which I adore.
He can't rely on lyrics so it's got to be all about the music and melody. Council Skies is pleasant but it's nothing I haven't heard before, I've just heard it done better by him in his glory days.
Staying in your comfort zone is fine, as Noel previously said rebelling against accusations of his musical conservatism, 'that's where your comfy, why would you change it?'. But staying in your comfort zone for too long ends with you becoming numb and eventually becomes a pain in the arse. I'm at the numb feeling, I don't feel anything with his new music. Keep things fresh and exciting.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Dec 14, 2023 17:39:22 GMT -5
I just feel unmoved by Noel's career right now. Have you considered that maybe you have changed as a person also? And maybe you are looking for something that just isn't there anymore? You referenced songs from the SOTSOG era and the HC era, songs written 20+ years ago and songs you probably first heard when you were at a very different part in your life. New Noel songs are never going to hit like they used to, is how I feel like about it. I just try to enjoy them for what they are and I still enjoy the live shows immensely. "They" haven't take that away from me! (yet) Sorry to get a bit deep on a Thursday morning lol In fairness, I think there's that aspect to it. If this was his first solo album when I was 20 years old, I'd probably be delighted with it, and it would hold a place in my heart ever more. These days I devour less new music because a lot of it just doesn't strike a chord with me. I don't know if that's just getting older or you understand yourself a bit better so you're more particular with the things that do speak to you.
|
|
|
Post by somemightsoya on Dec 15, 2023 7:41:45 GMT -5
I mean the bloke is 57 years old and has been dealing with a divorce after 12 years of marriage and 2 kids. The fact he is still on the road and smashing it out of the park every night is enough, I think we can cut him some slack with regards to producing fresh sounding "technicolour energy" new music can't we? It's more with how much he backtracked after blowing smoke up everyone's rear for two years about his new "direction", "parka monkeys", all that nonsense, just to straight up drop the album and EPs from his new shows. I always expected a retreat but the sheer abandonment of his body of work from 2017-2020 is odd. In his defence, many people moaned about WBTM and his cosmic pop and maybe he just recoiled from that back to NGHFB (and CY) safety. And we all moaned about the fact that in 2022 he was still touring the 2018 album (and EPs). All of which is a shame, because the balance of the set around 2019 Palladium and Tokyo gigs was pretty perfect
|
|
|
Post by The Boy Without the Blues on Dec 15, 2023 12:35:31 GMT -5
He will most certainly never please his entire fanbase. WBTM suffered a lot of backlash from fans and yet there are many other fans who crave for more in that direction.
I just hope he keeps releasing new music and pay less attention to criticism, which seems to have a lot of influence over Noel despise his general "i don't give a fuck" attitude
|
|
|
Post by The Chief on Dec 15, 2023 13:28:23 GMT -5
He will most certainly never please his entire fanbase. WBTM suffered a lot of backlash from fans and yet there are many other fans who crave for more in that direction. I just hope he keeps releasing new music and pay less attention to criticism, which seems to have a lot of influence over Noel despise his general "i don't give a fuck" attitude I've been saying the same thing since HC. SOTSOG was a change in direction and a big one at that but they didn't have the songs. But he just threw everything away for HC and they still didn't have the songs. SOTSOG should have been the beginning of Oasis MKII as it seemed to be at the time, not just a sneeze in the bulk of their career. Them getting rid of DIV saying it was because they didn't have the songs is bullshit in my opinion. They didn't call them back once they had written more songs did they? Same thing with AA. Noel's always been influenced by the fans no matter what he says. With WBTM I thought "Finally! He's loosening up a bit!" and he was saying that he decided to do like he wanted and not care about what the fans said (yes I know he was quite contemptuous when he was saying that but that's not my point). This is what he needs to do, stop listening to every Tom, Dick, and Harry and just trust himself and do what he wants. There's always a part of his fanbase that will complain.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Dec 15, 2023 15:05:49 GMT -5
He will most certainly never please his entire fanbase. WBTM suffered a lot of backlash from fans and yet there are many other fans who crave for more in that direction. I just hope he keeps releasing new music and pay less attention to criticism, which seems to have a lot of influence over Noel despise his general "i don't give a fuck" attitude I've been saying the same thing since HC. SOTSOG was a change in direction and a big one at that but they didn't have the songs. But he just threw everything away for HC and they still didn't have the songs. SOTSOG should have been the beginning of Oasis MKII as it seemed to be at the time, not just a sneeze in the bulk of their career. Them getting rid of DIV saying it was because they didn't have the songs is bullshit in my opinion. They didn't call them back once they had written more songs did they? Same thing with AA. Noel's always been influenced by the fans no matter what he says. With WBTM I thought "Finally! He's loosening up a bit!" and he was saying that he decided to do like he wanted and not care about what the fans said (yes I know he was quite contemptuous when he was saying that but that's not my point). This is what he needs to do, stop listening to every Tom, Dick, and Harry and just trust himself and do what he wants. There's always a part of his fanbase that will complain. Ah to be fair, I don't think they did have the songs. I think a lot of the songs on DBTT were recorded with DIV? I know A Bell Will Ring was, and regardless of who is producing that, that song ain't sounding good. I do believe Noel when he said they were polishing a turd. Death In Vegas just wouldn't work if they were just brought in to add bells and whistles to conventional songs. As with any dance/electronic acts, they need the songs built from the ground up, based on a groove, drumbeat, bassline, etc. It would have been cool if Oasis approached it in that manner.
|
|
|
Post by glider on Dec 15, 2023 15:26:03 GMT -5
He will most certainly never please his entire fanbase. WBTM suffered a lot of backlash from fans and yet there are many other fans who crave for more in that direction. I just hope he keeps releasing new music and pay less attention to criticism, which seems to have a lot of influence over Noel despise his general "i don't give a fuck" attitude Like I said before, my only issue is the backtracking. If he hadn't told half the fanbase to f*ck off for three years, I'd be much less critical.
|
|
|
Post by plaskins1 on Dec 15, 2023 17:11:06 GMT -5
I've been saying the same thing since HC. SOTSOG was a change in direction and a big one at that but they didn't have the songs. But he just threw everything away for HC and they still didn't have the songs. SOTSOG should have been the beginning of Oasis MKII as it seemed to be at the time, not just a sneeze in the bulk of their career. Them getting rid of DIV saying it was because they didn't have the songs is bullshit in my opinion. They didn't call them back once they had written more songs did they? Same thing with AA. Noel's always been influenced by the fans no matter what he says. With WBTM I thought "Finally! He's loosening up a bit!" and he was saying that he decided to do like he wanted and not care about what the fans said (yes I know he was quite contemptuous when he was saying that but that's not my point). This is what he needs to do, stop listening to every Tom, Dick, and Harry and just trust himself and do what he wants. There's always a part of his fanbase that will complain. Ah to be fair, I don't think they did have the songs. I think a lot of the songs on DBTT were recorded with DIV? I know A Bell Will Ring was, and regardless of who is producing that, that song ain't sounding good. I do believe Noel when he said they were polishing a turd. Death In Vegas just wouldn't work if they were just brought in to add bells and whistles to conventional songs. As with any dance/electronic acts, they need the songs built from the ground up, based on a groove, drumbeat, bassline, etc. It would have been cool if Oasis approached it in that manner. I actually really like A Bell Will Ring. Love the sentiment in lyrics and general Beatlesesque sound of it. I'd love to hear to DIV recordings. I like what Noel has done with Camelphat. That sounds organic and not forced. I hope they have more work in the pipeline together as I've read somewhere on here. I think if Noel wants to go down the electronic route it is best as collaboration with those who are already in that genre. For instance? I really like what he "tried" to produce with this is the place. Just sounds like it could have been better with some help/influence
|
|
|
Post by The Chief on Dec 16, 2023 15:15:36 GMT -5
I've been saying the same thing since HC. SOTSOG was a change in direction and a big one at that but they didn't have the songs. But he just threw everything away for HC and they still didn't have the songs. SOTSOG should have been the beginning of Oasis MKII as it seemed to be at the time, not just a sneeze in the bulk of their career. Them getting rid of DIV saying it was because they didn't have the songs is bullshit in my opinion. They didn't call them back once they had written more songs did they? Same thing with AA. Noel's always been influenced by the fans no matter what he says. With WBTM I thought "Finally! He's loosening up a bit!" and he was saying that he decided to do like he wanted and not care about what the fans said (yes I know he was quite contemptuous when he was saying that but that's not my point). This is what he needs to do, stop listening to every Tom, Dick, and Harry and just trust himself and do what he wants. There's always a part of his fanbase that will complain. Ah to be fair, I don't think they did have the songs. I think a lot of the songs on DBTT were recorded with DIV? I know A Bell Will Ring was, and regardless of who is producing that, that song ain't sounding good. I do believe Noel when he said they were polishing a turd. Death In Vegas just wouldn't work if they were just brought in to add bells and whistles to conventional songs. As with any dance/electronic acts, they need the songs built from the ground up, based on a groove, drumbeat, bassline, etc. It would have been cool if Oasis approached it in that manner. Yeah some of the songs they already had made it onto the album and the b-sides. But reading my post I wasn't clear. I do think they stopped working with DIV because they didn't have the songs. But I also think he got scared of the results which is why Sardy ended up producing when they had more good songs. PTSD from SOTSOG maybe but since the first record after the holy trinity of Oasis, Noel seems to want to experiment then goes "fuck this" and does his usual acoustic guitar and tambourine numbers.
|
|
|
Post by matt on Dec 16, 2023 18:55:01 GMT -5
Ah to be fair, I don't think they did have the songs. I think a lot of the songs on DBTT were recorded with DIV? I know A Bell Will Ring was, and regardless of who is producing that, that song ain't sounding good. I do believe Noel when he said they were polishing a turd. Death In Vegas just wouldn't work if they were just brought in to add bells and whistles to conventional songs. As with any dance/electronic acts, they need the songs built from the ground up, based on a groove, drumbeat, bassline, etc. It would have been cool if Oasis approached it in that manner. Yeah some of the songs they already had made it onto the album and the b-sides. But reading my post I wasn't clear. I do think they stopped working with DIV because they didn't have the songs. But I also think he got scared of the results which is why Sardy ended up producing when they had more good songs. PTSD from SOTSOG maybe but since the first record after the holy trinity of Oasis, Noel seems to want to experiment then goes "fuck this" and does his usual acoustic guitar and tambourine numbers. Oh I totally agree. Regardless of the song quality, I do think Noel's arsehole begins to quiver whenever they started to deviate from something traditional sounding.
|
|
|
Post by deadman on Jan 13, 2024 7:03:35 GMT -5
'I Just Wanna Be Like You'. Mentioned by Noel on Matt Morgan's podcast on New Years Eve as the last song he wrote and is "a really great one".
|
|
|
Post by Sadie on Jan 13, 2024 9:29:25 GMT -5
'I Just Wanna Be Like You'. Mentioned by Noel on Matt Morgan's podcast on New Years Eve as the last song he wrote and is "a really great one". I misread this as 'I Never Wanna Be Like You' and had to do a double take
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 13, 2024 11:24:00 GMT -5
'I Just Wanna Be Like You'. Mentioned by Noel on Matt Morgan's podcast on New Years Eve as the last song he wrote and is "a really great one". Noel should make a compilation of songs he said were really great or the best he’s ever written.
|
|
|
Post by tiger40 on Jan 13, 2024 13:29:53 GMT -5
'I Just Wanna Be Like You'. Mentioned by Noel on Matt Morgan's podcast on New Years Eve as the last song he wrote and is "a really great one". Noel should make a compilation of songs he said were really great or the best he’s ever written. That's very true and I guess that he won't ever stop saying that as he's been saying it for years now.
|
|
|
Post by naruosaka on Jan 13, 2024 14:27:03 GMT -5
'I Just Wanna Be Like You'. Mentioned by Noel on Matt Morgan's podcast on New Years Eve as the last song he wrote and is "a really great one". Noel should make a compilation of songs he said were really great or the best he’s ever written. It will have 15 discs : all his back catalogue then except Be Here Now and Sunday Morning Call 😅
|
|
|
Post by bt95 on Jan 13, 2024 14:54:53 GMT -5
Have you considered that maybe you have changed as a person also? And maybe you are looking for something that just isn't there anymore? The only person who's changed is Noel drastically. Council Skies, once again, isn't a bad album. It's mostly the tunes are not exciting and you CAN FEEL the energy is gone, and not in a purposeful way. Divorce is terrible, personal drama is terrible, but bleeding that into your ensemble isn't fair to them. I feel like the way he got rid of Audrey (Ysee) and Charlotte was terrible - I'm not even entirely sure what Jess does now besides the tambourine - Mike Rowe does everything she does keyboard wise, and it also has new female backing singers anyway. All that work to "flavor" up the band has gone to the wayside. I'm glad fans are still loving the live shows, but they seem like he's fulfilling obligations now rather than enjoying them. Watching a recent interview of him, he actually looks and sounds like a version of him that didn't expand creatively after 2009. I hope he gets through everything and comes back stronger than ever. In what way was it 'terrible' that he got rid of Charlotte and Ysee? There's no bad blood there, he still speaks really highly of both of them. The band changes, he brought in the Roxy's and he's not playing songs on this tour that Ysee or Charlotte would have contributed to. It'll cost a ton of money to take people on tour. If they aren't offering anything to the songs - not through a lack of skill, but just what they do/play - then they aren't going to be kept around. Jess still adds a lot. Council Skies is a fine album. Is it Definitely Maybe? Of course it's not, but it's got some real highlights on there.
|
|
|
Post by bt95 on Jan 13, 2024 14:56:49 GMT -5
Ah to be fair, I don't think they did have the songs. I think a lot of the songs on DBTT were recorded with DIV? I know A Bell Will Ring was, and regardless of who is producing that, that song ain't sounding good. I do believe Noel when he said they were polishing a turd. Death In Vegas just wouldn't work if they were just brought in to add bells and whistles to conventional songs. As with any dance/electronic acts, they need the songs built from the ground up, based on a groove, drumbeat, bassline, etc. It would have been cool if Oasis approached it in that manner. Yeah some of the songs they already had made it onto the album and the b-sides. But reading my post I wasn't clear. I do think they stopped working with DIV because they didn't have the songs. But I also think he got scared of the results which is why Sardy ended up producing when they had more good songs. PTSD from SOTSOG maybe but since the first record after the holy trinity of Oasis, Noel seems to want to experiment then goes "fuck this" and does his usual acoustic guitar and tambourine numbers. He's said with the DIV sessions the songs just weren't there. He doesn't put that on DIV. But he's said Lyla, Importance Of Being Idle and a fair few others just weren't included in those sessions. Imagine DBTT (which is a good album) without either of those songs?
|
|
|
Post by Lennon2217 on Jan 13, 2024 15:19:46 GMT -5
Yeah some of the songs they already had made it onto the album and the b-sides. But reading my post I wasn't clear. I do think they stopped working with DIV because they didn't have the songs. But I also think he got scared of the results which is why Sardy ended up producing when they had more good songs. PTSD from SOTSOG maybe but since the first record after the holy trinity of Oasis, Noel seems to want to experiment then goes "fuck this" and does his usual acoustic guitar and tambourine numbers. He's said with the DIV sessions the songs just weren't there. He doesn't put that on DIV. But he's said Lyla, Importance Of Being Idle and a fair few others just weren't included in those sessions. Imagine DBTT (which is a good album) without either of those songs? Don’t forget Let There Be Love. None of DBTT singles were part of the initial sessions for the album. Noel is prob right. The tunes weren’t there.
|
|